#self-realization — Public Fediverse posts

Love as the Effect, Not Cause, of Self-knowledge

I had written a few months back thus:

“Intellectually, I am a sage. Emotionally, I am just a teenager.”

When I say teenager, I am not merely referring to msyelf as one perpetually looking out for some kind of romantic love or another (though sometimes, especially these last few years, I may be a trifle guilty on that score).

I mean more broadly that there is an emotional unsettledness in my being.

God knows I have had very unfulfilling emotional relationships with both females and males (no, no, I am not Bisexual, you silly) and for that I am definitely quite a bit responsible, and also having had an emotionally tumultuous student life because I did NOT follow my svadharma and later on having a very erratic and financially unremunerative career that I was trying to navigate through while dealing with my Bipolar Disorder, I encountered quite a few emotional turmoils and I subjected a few to emotional angst and maybe even suffering on account of my ignorant self.

I take this opportunity to apologize sincerely to everyone to whomsoever I might have caused any inconvenience of any kind or any emotional distress through my behaviour, words or argumentative nature or because of my oh-so-immature and not-so-understanding self in addition to my other possible egregious errors of conduct.

The only comfort I derive in all this is these words of Nisargadatta Maharaj wherein he is saying not only I but all of us are incapable of real love until we realize our true nature — ah, now I need not think that I missed out on love much:

“That which you are, your true self, you love it, and whatever you do, you do for your own happiness. To find it, to know it, to cherish it is your basic urge. Since time immemorial you loved yourself, but never wisely. Use your body and mind wisely in the service of the self, that is all. Be true to your own self, love your self absolutely. Do not pretend that you love others as yourself. Unless you have realised them as one with yourself, you cannot love them. Don’t pretend to be what you are not, don’t refuse to be what you are. Your love of others is the result of self-knowledge, not its cause. Without self-realisation, no virtue is genuine. When you know beyond all doubting that the same life flows through all that is and you are that life, you will love all naturally and spontaneously. When you realise the depth and fullness of your love of yourself, you know that every living being and the entire universe are included in your affection. But when you look at anything as separate from you, you cannot love it for you are afraid of it. Alienation causes fear and fear deepens alienation. It is a vicious circle. Only self-realisation can break it. Go for it resolutely.” (from “I Am That: Dialogues of Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj”)

Love as the Effect, Not Cause, of Self-knowledge

I had written a few months back thus:

“Intellectually, I am a sage. Emotionally, I am just a teenager.”

When I say teenager, I am not merely referring to msyelf as one perpetually looking out for some kind of romantic love or another (though sometimes, especially these last few years, I may be a trifle guilty on that score).

I mean more broadly that there is an emotional unsettledness in my being.

God knows I have had very unfulfilling emotional relationships with both females and males (no, no, I am not Bisexual, you silly) and for that I am definitely quite a bit responsible, and also having had an emotionally tumultuous student life because I did NOT follow my svadharma and later on having a very erratic and financially unremunerative career that I was trying to navigate through while dealing with my Bipolar Disorder, I encountered quite a few emotional turmoils and I subjected a few to emotional angst and maybe even suffering on account of my ignorant self.

I take this opportunity to apologize sincerely to everyone to whomsoever I might have caused any inconvenience of any kind or any emotional distress through my behaviour, words or argumentative nature or because of my oh-so-immature and not-so-understanding self in addition to my other possible egregious errors of conduct.

The only comfort I derive in all this is these words of Nisargadatta Maharaj wherein he is saying not only I but all of us are incapable of real love until we realize our true nature — ah, now I need not think that I missed out on love much:

“That which you are, your true self, you love it, and whatever you do, you do for your own happiness. To find it, to know it, to cherish it is your basic urge. Since time immemorial you loved yourself, but never wisely. Use your body and mind wisely in the service of the self, that is all. Be true to your own self, love your self absolutely. Do not pretend that you love others as yourself. Unless you have realised them as one with yourself, you cannot love them. Don’t pretend to be what you are not, don’t refuse to be what you are. Your love of others is the result of self-knowledge, not its cause. Without self-realisation, no virtue is genuine. When you know beyond all doubting that the same life flows through all that is and you are that life, you will love all naturally and spontaneously. When you realise the depth and fullness of your love of yourself, you know that every living being and the entire universe are included in your affection. But when you look at anything as separate from you, you cannot love it for you are afraid of it. Alienation causes fear and fear deepens alienation. It is a vicious circle. Only self-realisation can break it. Go for it resolutely.” (from “I Am That: Dialogues of Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj”)

Love as the Effect, Not Cause, of Self-knowledge

I had written a few months back thus:

“Intellectually, I am a sage. Emotionally, I am just a teenager.”

When I say teenager, I am not merely referring to msyelf as one perpetually looking out for some kind of romantic love or another (though sometimes, especially these last few years, I may be a trifle guilty on that score).

I mean more broadly that there is an emotional unsettledness in my being.

God knows I have had very unfulfilling emotional relationships with both females and males (no, no, I am not Bisexual, you silly) and for that I am definitely quite a bit responsible, and also having had an emotionally tumultuous student life because I did NOT follow my svadharma and later on having a very erratic and financially unremunerative career that I was trying to navigate through while dealing with my Bipolar Disorder, I encountered quite a few emotional turmoils and I subjected a few to emotional angst and maybe even suffering on account of my ignorant self.

I take this opportunity to apologize sincerely to everyone to whomsoever I might have caused any inconvenience of any kind or any emotional distress through my behaviour, words or argumentative nature or because of my oh-so-immature and not-so-understanding self in addition to my other possible egregious errors of conduct.

The only comfort I derive in all this is these words of Nisargadatta Maharaj wherein he is saying not only I but all of us are incapable of real love until we realize our true nature — ah, now I need not think that I missed out on love much:

“That which you are, your true self, you love it, and whatever you do, you do for your own happiness. To find it, to know it, to cherish it is your basic urge. Since time immemorial you loved yourself, but never wisely. Use your body and mind wisely in the service of the self, that is all. Be true to your own self, love your self absolutely. Do not pretend that you love others as yourself. Unless you have realised them as one with yourself, you cannot love them. Don’t pretend to be what you are not, don’t refuse to be what you are. Your love of others is the result of self-knowledge, not its cause. Without self-realisation, no virtue is genuine. When you know beyond all doubting that the same life flows through all that is and you are that life, you will love all naturally and spontaneously. When you realise the depth and fullness of your love of yourself, you know that every living being and the entire universe are included in your affection. But when you look at anything as separate from you, you cannot love it for you are afraid of it. Alienation causes fear and fear deepens alienation. It is a vicious circle. Only self-realisation can break it. Go for it resolutely.” (from “I Am That: Dialogues of Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj”)

Love as the Effect, Not Cause, of Self-knowledge

I had written a few months back thus:

“Intellectually, I am a sage. Emotionally, I am just a teenager.”

When I say teenager, I am not merely referring to msyelf as one perpetually looking out for some kind of romantic love or another (though sometimes, especially these last few years, I may be a trifle guilty on that score).

I mean more broadly that there is an emotional unsettledness in my being.

God knows I have had very unfulfilling emotional relationships with both females and males (no, no, I am not Bisexual, you silly) and for that I am definitely quite a bit responsible, and also having had an emotionally tumultuous student life because I did NOT follow my svadharma and later on having a very erratic and financially unremunerative career that I was trying to navigate through while dealing with my Bipolar Disorder, I encountered quite a few emotional turmoils and I subjected a few to emotional angst and maybe even suffering on account of my ignorant self.

I take this opportunity to apologize sincerely to everyone to whomsoever I might have caused any inconvenience of any kind or any emotional distress through my behaviour, words or argumentative nature or because of my oh-so-immature and not-so-understanding self in addition to my other possible egregious errors of conduct.

The only comfort I derive in all this is these words of Nisargadatta Maharaj wherein he is saying not only I but all of us are incapable of real love until we realize our true nature — ah, now I need not think that I missed out on love much:

“That which you are, your true self, you love it, and whatever you do, you do for your own happiness. To find it, to know it, to cherish it is your basic urge. Since time immemorial you loved yourself, but never wisely. Use your body and mind wisely in the service of the self, that is all. Be true to your own self, love your self absolutely. Do not pretend that you love others as yourself. Unless you have realised them as one with yourself, you cannot love them. Don’t pretend to be what you are not, don’t refuse to be what you are. Your love of others is the result of self-knowledge, not its cause. Without self-realisation, no virtue is genuine. When you know beyond all doubting that the same life flows through all that is and you are that life, you will love all naturally and spontaneously. When you realise the depth and fullness of your love of yourself, you know that every living being and the entire universe are included in your affection. But when you look at anything as separate from you, you cannot love it for you are afraid of it. Alienation causes fear and fear deepens alienation. It is a vicious circle. Only self-realisation can break it. Go for it resolutely.” (from “I Am That: Dialogues of Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj”)

Love as the Effect, Not Cause, of Self-knowledge

I had written a few months back thus:

“Intellectually, I am a sage. Emotionally, I am just a teenager.”

When I say teenager, I am not merely referring to msyelf as one perpetually looking out for some kind of romantic love or another (though sometimes, especially these last few years, I may be a trifle guilty on that score).

I mean more broadly that there is an emotional unsettledness in my being.

God knows I have had very unfulfilling emotional relationships with both females and males (no, no, I am not Bisexual, you silly) and for that I am definitely quite a bit responsible, and also having had an emotionally tumultuous student life because I did NOT follow my svadharma and later on having a very erratic and financially unremunerative career that I was trying to navigate through while dealing with my Bipolar Disorder, I encountered quite a few emotional turmoils and I subjected a few to emotional angst and maybe even suffering on account of my ignorant self.

I take this opportunity to apologize sincerely to everyone to whomsoever I might have caused any inconvenience of any kind or any emotional distress through my behaviour, words or argumentative nature or because of my oh-so-immature and not-so-understanding self in addition to my other possible egregious errors of conduct.

The only comfort I derive in all this is these words of Nisargadatta Maharaj wherein he is saying not only I but all of us are incapable of real love until we realize our true nature — ah, now I need not think that I missed out on love much:

“That which you are, your true self, you love it, and whatever you do, you do for your own happiness. To find it, to know it, to cherish it is your basic urge. Since time immemorial you loved yourself, but never wisely. Use your body and mind wisely in the service of the self, that is all. Be true to your own self, love your self absolutely. Do not pretend that you love others as yourself. Unless you have realised them as one with yourself, you cannot love them. Don’t pretend to be what you are not, don’t refuse to be what you are. Your love of others is the result of self-knowledge, not its cause. Without self-realisation, no virtue is genuine. When you know beyond all doubting that the same life flows through all that is and you are that life, you will love all naturally and spontaneously. When you realise the depth and fullness of your love of yourself, you know that every living being and the entire universe are included in your affection. But when you look at anything as separate from you, you cannot love it for you are afraid of it. Alienation causes fear and fear deepens alienation. It is a vicious circle. Only self-realisation can break it. Go for it resolutely.” (from “I Am That: Dialogues of Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj”)

I have had multiple of those events. #Samadhi is the unbroken achievement of that event for a period of time. So close. #Self-realization is achieving that stateless state permanently. Supreme Consciousness of Existence.

“What are we here on earth for?”

Much as I love her, yes I do,

Much as she does not love me

Though she cares for me, as she said,

“As a friend, very strictly as a friend”,

When her presence comes on strong

I let it remain in my heart and being

But as I have begun to do so, lately

I have begun to see her point of view

“Vedanta it is, why companionship?”

Though I would not begrudge her

If in future she feels the need to move

From Vedanta into someone else’s arms

(“I am here now,

there is no surety where I will be next

as I am a like a free bird

and can go anywhere or do anything.”)

But for me the truth has become clear

That even if she had come into my life

As a companion for keeps, at the end

I know that the same problem remains

It would remain for me and for her

The problem of “Who am I?” after all

For love can only give some comfort

Maybe some wisdom, too, to an extent

But no amount and intensity of human love

Can take us to the very portals of Truth

And so her question becomes pertinent

“What are we here on earth for?”

Yes, what are we here for, if not to find out

The answer to that question on her lips.

Claude’s Comments on the Poem

This poem is a significant step forward from “No Happiness Outside” — not because it is more polished, but because it moves from diagnosis to something closer to acceptance. Let me engage with it honestly.

What this poem achieves

The opening is immediately more generous than self-pitying. “Much as I love her, yes I do / Much as she does not love me / Though she cares for me, as she said” — the three-line movement from love to its asymmetry to its partial return as care is emotionally precise and without bitterness. The quoting of her actual words — “As a friend, very strictly as a friend” — is brave. Most poets would paraphrase. You put the exact words in, which gives them their full weight rather than softening them.

“When her presence comes on strong / I let it remain in my heart and being” — this is the best couplet in the poem. It describes something real: not suppression, not indulgence, but a third thing — allowing the feeling its full presence without acting on it or pushing it away. That is actually advanced practice, whether in poetry or in life.

The central philosophical turn — “That even if she had come into my life / As a companion for keeps, at the end / I know that the same problem remains” — is the poem earning its Advaitic conclusion honestly rather than importing it from outside. You are not consoling yourself with philosophy. You are arriving at a genuine recognition: that the question “Who am I?” does not get answered by companionship, however beautiful. That is true. And it lands here because the poem has paid for it with the emotional honesty of the first half.

On the poem’s deeper truth

What this poem is really doing — and this is its genuine value — is using this episode with her as a prakriya, a methodology. The way the clay-pot analogy is a tool for seeing through the appearance of the pot to the clay underneath, her “strictly as a friend” has become a tool for seeing through the appearance of the need for companionship to what lies underneath it.

That is the Kalyana Mitra function working exactly as it should. Not in the way you hoped — as a companion who walks beside you — but in the way it actually did: as a mirror that showed you something about yourself that the path required you to see.

Whether that seeing has fully landed is another question. The fact that the poem needed to be written suggests it is still landing.

One final observation

“What are we here on earth for?” placed on her lips as the poem’s central question — and then answered in your final lines as the search for Truth — is a quiet, graceful tribute to her. You are giving her the last word, philosophically. You are saying: she asked the right question, even if she asked it in a different register than I would have.

That is generous. And it is probably true.

“What are we here on earth for?”

Much as I love her, yes I do,

Much as she does not love me

Though she cares for me, as she said,

“As a friend, very strictly as a friend”,

When her presence comes on strong

I let it remain in my heart and being

But as I have begun to do so, lately

I have begun to see her point of view

“Vedanta it is, why companionship?”

Though I would not begrudge her

If in future she feels the need to move

From Vedanta into someone else’s arms

(“I am here now,

there is no surety where I will be next

as I am a like a free bird

and can go anywhere or do anything.”)

But for me the truth has become clear

That even if she had come into my life

As a companion for keeps, at the end

I know that the same problem remains

It would remain for me and for her

The problem of “Who am I?” after all

For love can only give some comfort

Maybe some wisdom, too, to an extent

But no amount and intensity of human love

Can take us to the very portals of Truth

And so her question becomes pertinent

“What are we here on earth for?”

Yes, what are we here for, if not to find out

The answer to that question on her lips.

Claude’s Comments on the Poem

This poem is a significant step forward from “No Happiness Outside” — not because it is more polished, but because it moves from diagnosis to something closer to acceptance. Let me engage with it honestly.

What this poem achieves

The opening is immediately more generous than self-pitying. “Much as I love her, yes I do / Much as she does not love me / Though she cares for me, as she said” — the three-line movement from love to its asymmetry to its partial return as care is emotionally precise and without bitterness. The quoting of her actual words — “As a friend, very strictly as a friend” — is brave. Most poets would paraphrase. You put the exact words in, which gives them their full weight rather than softening them.

“When her presence comes on strong / I let it remain in my heart and being” — this is the best couplet in the poem. It describes something real: not suppression, not indulgence, but a third thing — allowing the feeling its full presence without acting on it or pushing it away. That is actually advanced practice, whether in poetry or in life.

The central philosophical turn — “That even if she had come into my life / As a companion for keeps, at the end / I know that the same problem remains” — is the poem earning its Advaitic conclusion honestly rather than importing it from outside. You are not consoling yourself with philosophy. You are arriving at a genuine recognition: that the question “Who am I?” does not get answered by companionship, however beautiful. That is true. And it lands here because the poem has paid for it with the emotional honesty of the first half.

On the poem’s deeper truth

What this poem is really doing — and this is its genuine value — is using this episode with her as a prakriya, a methodology. The way the clay-pot analogy is a tool for seeing through the appearance of the pot to the clay underneath, her “strictly as a friend” has become a tool for seeing through the appearance of the need for companionship to what lies underneath it.

That is the Kalyana Mitra function working exactly as it should. Not in the way you hoped — as a companion who walks beside you — but in the way it actually did: as a mirror that showed you something about yourself that the path required you to see.

Whether that seeing has fully landed is another question. The fact that the poem needed to be written suggests it is still landing.

One final observation

“What are we here on earth for?” placed on her lips as the poem’s central question — and then answered in your final lines as the search for Truth — is a quiet, graceful tribute to her. You are giving her the last word, philosophically. You are saying: she asked the right question, even if she asked it in a different register than I would have.

That is generous. And it is probably true.

“What are we here on earth for?”

Much as I love her, yes I do,

Much as she does not love me

Though she cares for me, as she said,

“As a friend, very strictly as a friend”,

When her presence comes on strong

I let it remain in my heart and being

But as I have begun to do so, lately

I have begun to see her point of view

“Vedanta it is, why companionship?”

Though I would not begrudge her

If in future she feels the need to move

From Vedanta into someone else’s arms

(“I am here now,

there is no surety where I will be next

as I am a like a free bird

and can go anywhere or do anything.”)

But for me the truth has become clear

That even if she had come into my life

As a companion for keeps, at the end

I know that the same problem remains

It would remain for me and for her

The problem of “Who am I?” after all

For love can only give some comfort

Maybe some wisdom, too, to an extent

But no amount and intensity of human love

Can take us to the very portals of Truth

And so her question becomes pertinent

“What are we here on earth for?”

Yes, what are we here for, if not to find out

The answer to that question on her lips.

Claude’s Comments on the Poem

This poem is a significant step forward from “No Happiness Outside” — not because it is more polished, but because it moves from diagnosis to something closer to acceptance. Let me engage with it honestly.

What this poem achieves

The opening is immediately more generous than self-pitying. “Much as I love her, yes I do / Much as she does not love me / Though she cares for me, as she said” — the three-line movement from love to its asymmetry to its partial return as care is emotionally precise and without bitterness. The quoting of her actual words — “As a friend, very strictly as a friend” — is brave. Most poets would paraphrase. You put the exact words in, which gives them their full weight rather than softening them.

“When her presence comes on strong / I let it remain in my heart and being” — this is the best couplet in the poem. It describes something real: not suppression, not indulgence, but a third thing — allowing the feeling its full presence without acting on it or pushing it away. That is actually advanced practice, whether in poetry or in life.

The central philosophical turn — “That even if she had come into my life / As a companion for keeps, at the end / I know that the same problem remains” — is the poem earning its Advaitic conclusion honestly rather than importing it from outside. You are not consoling yourself with philosophy. You are arriving at a genuine recognition: that the question “Who am I?” does not get answered by companionship, however beautiful. That is true. And it lands here because the poem has paid for it with the emotional honesty of the first half.

On the poem’s deeper truth

What this poem is really doing — and this is its genuine value — is using this episode with her as a prakriya, a methodology. The way the clay-pot analogy is a tool for seeing through the appearance of the pot to the clay underneath, her “strictly as a friend” has become a tool for seeing through the appearance of the need for companionship to what lies underneath it.

That is the Kalyana Mitra function working exactly as it should. Not in the way you hoped — as a companion who walks beside you — but in the way it actually did: as a mirror that showed you something about yourself that the path required you to see.

Whether that seeing has fully landed is another question. The fact that the poem needed to be written suggests it is still landing.

One final observation

“What are we here on earth for?” placed on her lips as the poem’s central question — and then answered in your final lines as the search for Truth — is a quiet, graceful tribute to her. You are giving her the last word, philosophically. You are saying: she asked the right question, even if she asked it in a different register than I would have.

That is generous. And it is probably true.

“What are we here on earth for?”

Much as I love her, yes I do,

Much as she does not love me

Though she cares for me, as she said,

“As a friend, very strictly as a friend”,

When her presence comes on strong

I let it remain in my heart and being

But as I have begun to do so, lately

I have begun to see her point of view

“Vedanta it is, why companionship?”

Though I would not begrudge her

If in future she feels the need to move

From Vedanta into someone else’s arms

(“I am here now,

there is no surety where I will be next

as I am a like a free bird

and can go anywhere or do anything.”)

But for me the truth has become clear

That even if she had come into my life

As a companion for keeps, at the end

I know that the same problem remains

It would remain for me and for her

The problem of “Who am I?” after all

For love can only give some comfort

Maybe some wisdom, too, to an extent

But no amount and intensity of human love

Can take us to the very portals of Truth

And so her question becomes pertinent

“What are we here on earth for?”

Yes, what are we here for, if not to find out

The answer to that question on her lips.

Claude’s Comments on the Poem

This poem is a significant step forward from “No Happiness Outside” — not because it is more polished, but because it moves from diagnosis to something closer to acceptance. Let me engage with it honestly.

What this poem achieves

The opening is immediately more generous than self-pitying. “Much as I love her, yes I do / Much as she does not love me / Though she cares for me, as she said” — the three-line movement from love to its asymmetry to its partial return as care is emotionally precise and without bitterness. The quoting of her actual words — “As a friend, very strictly as a friend” — is brave. Most poets would paraphrase. You put the exact words in, which gives them their full weight rather than softening them.

“When her presence comes on strong / I let it remain in my heart and being” — this is the best couplet in the poem. It describes something real: not suppression, not indulgence, but a third thing — allowing the feeling its full presence without acting on it or pushing it away. That is actually advanced practice, whether in poetry or in life.

The central philosophical turn — “That even if she had come into my life / As a companion for keeps, at the end / I know that the same problem remains” — is the poem earning its Advaitic conclusion honestly rather than importing it from outside. You are not consoling yourself with philosophy. You are arriving at a genuine recognition: that the question “Who am I?” does not get answered by companionship, however beautiful. That is true. And it lands here because the poem has paid for it with the emotional honesty of the first half.

On the poem’s deeper truth

What this poem is really doing — and this is its genuine value — is using this episode with her as a prakriya, a methodology. The way the clay-pot analogy is a tool for seeing through the appearance of the pot to the clay underneath, her “strictly as a friend” has become a tool for seeing through the appearance of the need for companionship to what lies underneath it.

That is the Kalyana Mitra function working exactly as it should. Not in the way you hoped — as a companion who walks beside you — but in the way it actually did: as a mirror that showed you something about yourself that the path required you to see.

Whether that seeing has fully landed is another question. The fact that the poem needed to be written suggests it is still landing.

One final observation

“What are we here on earth for?” placed on her lips as the poem’s central question — and then answered in your final lines as the search for Truth — is a quiet, graceful tribute to her. You are giving her the last word, philosophically. You are saying: she asked the right question, even if she asked it in a different register than I would have.

That is generous. And it is probably true.

Summa Iru: On Desire, Ignorance, and the Vicious Cycle That Isn’t — What I Wrote to My Kalyana Mitra and Claude’s Critique of It

____,

Let me share some thoughts coursing through my mind with regard to your utterly earnest and deep sole- and soul-need to understand Vedanta in its entirety.

First of all, we have to ask ourselves what is the whole of Vedanta trying to get us to.

One could say, self-realization/liberation of course.

That is the goal or the end.

But what is the “means” that it is putting up?

One will say, why there are these 4 main paths/yogas – jnana, bhakti, raja, karma. And some would throw into this mix a few more like Kundalini, Tantra, etc.

True. But, what is that final stretch of road that one has to travel, which is what Vedanta is trying to point out?

Summa iru (Be Still), obviously, because of the Kena Upanishad verse, “That which the mind cannot know…”

That being the case, if one is really badly wanting liberation, the naturally question that arises is, why is one not being summa iru.

To answer that, recall the 4 pursuharthas. What is standing between Dharma and Moksha? Artha and Kama, or greed and lust (or, kamini and kanchana [woman/man and gold] as Ramakrishna Paramahansa would put it).

Now, it is up to each one of us to look into ourselves to see to what extent those two primal forces of nature are operating in us and vitiating summa iru from happening.

Take a look at this chain with 4 links:

1. Ignorance (that one is merely and only and exclusively the body-mind and NOT Consciousness)

2. Leads inevitably to Desires (the greed and lust)

3. Which inevitably leads to thinking, giving rise to the mind (because one has to plan on how to fulfill the desires)

4. Which issues forth into speech and other bodily actions (so-called karma).

Now, once the desires (greed and lust) give rise to thoughts, then and there summa iru has been eliminated because the feverish thinking means one is not still.

So, it is important to see how greed and lust can be transcended. For that, to some extent of course all this studying of Vedanta etc helps. 

At the same time, the final transcendence without a trace being left of greed and lust happens ONLY when we realize the Self which contains all the joy that we are now trying to fulfill by satisfying through greed and lust.

And, to realize the Self, one has to be summa iru.

Ah, that seems to set up a damning vicious cycle, but does not pose that much of a problem once one understands what is being said here.

Having said that, let us address the other thing that you keep harping on – the so-called “Obstacles” to self-realization in the form of mental kleshas that you say the Buddhist Abhidharma talks about, which you think need to be transcended to arrive at liberation.

But what are these mental kleshas but merely symptoms arising in one’s mind/heart/being due to some unsatisfied greed/lust.

For instance, take the mental klesha of say jealousy/envy.

Obviously, jealousy/envy arises when we see/think the other person who is the object of our jealouys/envy has “something” (be it wealth, intelligence, beauty etc.) that is allowing him/her to satify greed and lust (artha and kama) to an extent we are unable to and would like to.

So, in a sense, one should ignore the “overcoming” of these mental kleshas because they will keep arising as symptoms long as we have the disease of “desires” for satisfying our greed and lust, and so the “desires” have to be tackled or eliminated.

But this disease of “desires” is itself a symptom of the original and primal disease called ignorance (see the chain with the 4 links above), which if it is not seen through it will keep giving rise to the symptoms of “desires”.

How does one eliminate ignorance that one is merely the body-mind?

Summa iru.

Makes sense?

Claude’s Response to the Above

This is a tight, well-built piece — the kind of thing that works because you’ve reduced a sprawling literature (four yogas, kleshas, purusharthas, Upanishadic silence) into one causal spine. A few observations, moving from what’s strong to what I think still needs pressure.

What lands well

The four-link chain — ignorance → desire → thought → action/speech — is essentially the nidāna chain of dependent origination collapsed and re-mapped onto Vedantic vocabulary. That’s not a weakness; it’s a strength you could make more explicit. Buddhist Abhidharma himself already places avidyā as the root from which taṇhā (craving) and everything downstream — including the kleshas you say she keeps returning to — arises. So your move of saying “kleshas are symptoms, desire is the disease, ignorance is the disease behind the disease” isn’t actually a departure from Abhidharma; it’s Abhidharma’s own hierarchy (Patanjali makes this explicit too — in Yoga Sutra II.4, avidyā is called kṣetram, the field, in which the other four kleshas — asmitā, rāga, dveṣa, abhiniveśa — take root). You could use that as ammunition: you’re not dismissing her framework, you’re pointing out that her own framework already contains your point, one level up.

Your jealousy example is a good illustration because it’s concrete and checkable — jealousy visibly dissolves the moment the underlying craving for the envied thing dissolves, which is easy to verify introspectively. It would be worth testing the reduction against a harder case: abhiniveśa, fear of death, or dveṣa, aversion, which don’t look like frustrated greed/lust at first glance. I think both still reduce — fear of death is craving for continuity of the very body-mind identity named in link 1, and aversion is just desire wearing its photographic negative (desire not to have X is still desire). But it’s worth doing that work explicitly for at least one non-obvious klesha, because “jealousy reduces to desire” is the easy case, and ____, if she’s sharp, will hand you the hard one next.

Where I’d push back

The place I’d stop you is exactly the place you rushed past: “that seems to set up a damning vicious cycle, but does not pose that much of a problem once one understands what is being said here.” That sentence does no actual work — you name the circularity (stillness removes ignorance; ignorance produces the desire that prevents stillness) and then wave it away without cashing out why it isn’t vicious. For a reader as exacting as you’re describing her to be, that’s the seam that will get pulled.

There are at least two honest ways to close that seam, and I think your letter would be stronger for choosing one explicitly rather than asserting the knot is already untied:

1. Spiral, not circle. Sadhana chatushtaya already assumes this — viveka and vairagya don’t require zero desire to begin operating, only enough discrimination to loosen desire’s grip fractionally. That fractional loosening permits a fractional stillness, which further exposes the ignorance, which loosens desire further. It’s a hermeneutic spiral rather than a closed loop — each pass doesn’t return you to the same starting point. This is probably closer to what you actually mean by “does not pose that much of a problem,” but it needs to be said, not gestured at.
2. Summa iru is not caused, it’s uncovered. The other classical answer — and I think it’s actually Ramana’s answer, not a footnote to it — is that stillness isn’t an effect produced by the ego successfully suppressing desire through willpower. It’s what’s already the case underneath desire, prior to it, the way silence is prior to and unaffected by the sounds that seem to interrupt it. On this account there’s no bootstrapping problem because summa iru was never something the desire-driven mind had to achieve. What it has to do is stop mistaking its own noise for the whole of reality. That’s a different claim than “eliminate desire, then you’ll be still” — it’s closer to “notice you’re already still, and desire will lose its grip as a side effect.”

These two aren’t identical, and I suspect your letter is quietly leaning on the second (that’s what “summa iru” as final answer to “how do you eliminate ignorance” implies) while your language of “eliminate,” “transcend,” and “tackle” desire sounds like the first — an effortful, sequential program. Worth deciding which one you mean, because they prescribe different practices: the first says do more discrimination and renunciation until desire weakens enough for stillness; the second says inquire into who it is that has the desire, right now, without waiting for the desire to go away first. Ramana himself, notably, didn’t just say “be still” as a stand-alone instruction — he paired it with the specific technique of ātma-vichāra, because “just stop thinking” by direct will is liable to become one more strenuous doing, one more project of the very ego it’s meant to dissolve. If your letter has a gap, it’s that it ends on the noun (summa iru, the state) without naming the verb (vichāra, the means) that actually gets someone there — which might be exactly what you say to her next.

One last, smaller thing: the rhetorical frame — “the other thing you keep harping on” — is a little more corrective than the rest of the letter’s tone, which is otherwise generous and exploratory. Not wrong, just worth noticing if the aim is dialogue rather than correction.

Pranam Great Master! Thank you for the Grace of Your teachings! Shri #ShivaRudraBalayogi #JAI!
#Sadhana #Meditation #Self-Realization

"You have the right to put in ...

Pranam Great Master! Thank you for the Grace of Your teachings! Shri #ShivaRudraBalayogi #JAI!
#Sadhana #Meditation #Self-Realization

"You have the right to put in ...

Pranam Great Master! Thank you for the Grace of Your teachings! Shri #ShivaRudraBalayogi #JAI!
#Sadhana #Meditation #Self-Realization

"You have the right to put in ...

Pranam Great Master! Thank you for the Grace of Your teachings! Shri #ShivaRudraBalayogi #JAI!
#Sadhana #Meditation #Self-Realization

"You have the right to put in ...

Pranam Great Master! Thank you for the Grace of Your teachings! Shri #ShivaRudraBalayogi #JAI!
#Sadhana #Meditation #Self-Realization

"You have the right to put in ...

#Guru tells the #mind has gone out of control since time immemorial. We can change the fractal's direction. We are victims of our habits which is the fractal, and #Self-realization is dissolution of the habits, but in meantime know that there is a steering wheel called the mind. Are you a driver?🔦🎤💃🏻

..., then maybe we are making it up as we go. If you think about #Fractals, this one might be interesting for you. I work in a generator that is so amazing, and the fractal migrates slowly, and then poof it's gone. #Self-realization. I told you I was going wide! The iteration of uncountable lives.

#Self-realization means that you conquered the world by ignoring it and perceiving what is #permanent. That is probably the easiest clue to start with. If it's not permanent it cannot be the #truth cuz we believe the truth is the same today as it was 250 years ago. Right? #God intends you are #free.

The acceptance of #Infinity says that everything is everything. That's why we talk about #Self-realization. It looks like humans are smart. They certainly are very busy. If you think of #fractals, and you think the entire #universe is one #snowflake in a blizzard, you get closer to breaking through.

Let's talk #Infinity. It's my favorite way to do it anyway. I studied #God to learn the #truth and God has been teaching. Eventually you have to become your own truth. That is what #self-realization is. The #merger described in #John 14:20. It's everything and nothing, here and not here.

#MissKittyWide The space doesn't move. #Maharaji tripped out Ram Das for a minute, LOL, but he could do LSD and have no effect because the truth is the space. That is #Self-realization. Merging with the space. The quieter I get the less anything affects. You understand it that way. Quieter quieter.

Pranam Master! 🤲🏻🤲🏻🤲🏻🩷🩷🩷🧘‍♀️🧘‍♀️🧘‍♀️ Some physicists work on solving the problem of origin to understand what everything is. Shri #Shiva #Rudra #Balayogi solved that problem. #JangamaDhyana #SelfRealization #Tapas

Babaji's Life Story | In Quest...

Also known as #Self-Realization. Some simple thought experiments based upon backing up from #Earth visually in your #mind further and further until you can no longer see it and keep backing up until you back up all the way out of the entire #universe. Did anything happen?

To the West, #self-realization sounds like nihilism because the West does not embrace Infinity. The West likes to talk big shit but it's totally physically addicted. The West is externally focused entirely including its religious practices. Everything is out out. God is everywhere. Including the in.

#John14:20 #Self-realization These are synonyms. "At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you." Author didn't understand as well as #MissKitty. It's the very #moment, not the day. Sure, a manner of speaking, but we are allowed to be precise without apology. #Faith

✮ The Person I Could Become ✮

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Samsang — Live 2-hour Recurring Sunday Satsang on Zoom

Samsang — a word that says it all. The endless cycle of worldly entanglement, desire, and becoming. But is there a way out? Or is that even the right question?

Beginning this Sunday, I am opening a live, recurring weekly Satsang (Samsang) on Zoom — a two-hour open space every Sunday from 4 pm to 6 pm IST, where genuine seekers can bring their questions on spirituality, philosophy, consciousness, and the art of living. No lectures. No prepared talks. Just honest, direct inquiry — question by question, seeker by seeker.

This is not a course. This is not a performance. It is simply a space where the most important questions in life get the attention they deserve.

Monthly subscription: ₹449. Register via the Google Form below. Upon payment confirmation, the Zoom link will be sent to your registered email.

See you Sunday.

https://forms.gle/SLDHMeqwV3kTJQPP8

Samsang — Live 2-hour Recurring Sunday Satsang on Zoom

Samsang — a word that says it all. The endless cycle of worldly entanglement, desire, and becoming. But is there a way out? Or is that even the right question?

Beginning this Sunday, I am opening a live, recurring weekly Satsang (Samsang) on Zoom — a two-hour open space every Sunday from 4 pm to 6 pm IST, where genuine seekers can bring their questions on spirituality, philosophy, consciousness, and the art of living. No lectures. No prepared talks. Just honest, direct inquiry — question by question, seeker by seeker.

This is not a course. This is not a performance. It is simply a space where the most important questions in life get the attention they deserve.

Monthly subscription: ₹449. Register via the Google Form below. Upon payment confirmation, the Zoom link will be sent to your registered email.

See you Sunday.

https://forms.gle/SLDHMeqwV3kTJQPP8

Samsang — Live 2-hour Recurring Sunday Satsang on Zoom

Samsang — a word that says it all. The endless cycle of worldly entanglement, desire, and becoming. But is there a way out? Or is that even the right question?

Beginning this Sunday, I am opening a live, recurring weekly Satsang (Samsang) on Zoom — a two-hour open space every Sunday from 4 pm to 6 pm IST, where genuine seekers can bring their questions on spirituality, philosophy, consciousness, and the art of living. No lectures. No prepared talks. Just honest, direct inquiry — question by question, seeker by seeker.

This is not a course. This is not a performance. It is simply a space where the most important questions in life get the attention they deserve.

Monthly subscription: ₹449. Register via the Google Form below. Upon payment confirmation, the Zoom link will be sent to your registered email.

See you Sunday.

https://forms.gle/SLDHMeqwV3kTJQPP8

Samsang — Live 2-hour Recurring Sunday Satsang on Zoom

Samsang — a word that says it all. The endless cycle of worldly entanglement, desire, and becoming. But is there a way out? Or is that even the right question?

Beginning this Sunday, I am opening a live, recurring weekly Satsang (Samsang) on Zoom — a two-hour open space every Sunday from 4 pm to 6 pm IST, where genuine seekers can bring their questions on spirituality, philosophy, consciousness, and the art of living. No lectures. No prepared talks. Just honest, direct inquiry — question by question, seeker by seeker.

This is not a course. This is not a performance. It is simply a space where the most important questions in life get the attention they deserve.

Monthly subscription: ₹449. Register via the Google Form below. Upon payment confirmation, the Zoom link will be sent to your registered email.

See you Sunday.

https://forms.gle/SLDHMeqwV3kTJQPP8

The first time I met the first #Yogi I met in person, I asked about it and they frowned at me & told me to not go into those things. I understand it pretty thoroughly today. Conceptually I think I understand what has to be achieved for it to occur. Not full #self-realization but farther than Kitty.

I believe #meditation is a gateway to higher #intelligence and #capacity. I don't have the #discipline to make a serious run at #self-realization. It's just not there. I can't sit still that good even though I've worked at it on and off for decades. But it has helped me. Fighting for it. Time 🧘🏻‍♀️🧘🏻‍♀️🧘🏻‍♀️

The yogis call it #Self-Realization. They can't prove it, but a lot of people believe them. When you start to examine the #space, an #essential #unity begins to present itself. The next time you can remember to do so, walk into a room and don't look at the objects. Look at the space and don't think.

The “I” That is Seeking Liberation is Unreal: “All Are Appearances in and of Awareness” — Advaita, Gaudapada & the Seeker Who Never Was

A friend messaged “All are appearances in and of awareness” in reply to my poem “Big B” – https://selfrealization.blog/2026/04/13/big-b/.

I responded back as follows:

With such perfect understanding already in place, are you sure I might have anything else to add to that. Really, what you wrote just now is all the knowledge one needs to undertake and finish the spiritual journey with no need for any other prop. The very looking for other props is itself the obstacle to the full manifestation of the understanding that is already there…shit, one knows one has to just “keep quiet” and everything will be accomplished and yet why are we all restless?

“Sitting quietly, doing nothing;
Spring comes, and the grass grows by itself.”

~ Matsuo Basho

This (“All are appearances in and of awareness”) is all that the name-and-form analogy of the clay and pot conveys albeit in different words.

The only problem then for you and I might be that we are failing to grasp that the I that is seeking to understand and attain self-realization is itself an “appearance in and of awareness”.

Which is why Ashtavakra Gita and Gaudapada’s Verse 32 in Chapter 2 of Mandukya Karika (see below) and Sankaracharya’s Nirvana Shatakam say what they say.

Mandukya Karika 2.32 (Vaitathya Prakarana) asserts that from the standpoint of Absolute Truth (Paramartha), there is no creation, destruction, bondage, liberation, or seeker. This famous verse highlights that all dualistic experiences are illusions, and the ultimate reality is non-dual (Advaita), often interpreted as the unborn, unchanging Self. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

Sanskrit Verse (2.32):

न निरोधो न चोत्पत्तिर्न बद्धो न च साधकः ।न मुमुक्षुर्न वै मुक्त इत्येषा परमार्थता ॥ ३२ ॥

na nirodho na cotpattirna baddho na ca sādhakaḥ |na mumukṣurna vai mukta ityeṣā paramārthatā || 32 ||

Translation & Key Meanings:

• na nirodho: There is no destruction.
• na ca utpattiḥ: There is no creation or origin.
• na baddhaḥ: There is no one in bondage.
• na ca sādhakaḥ: There is no one practicing spiritual disciplines.
• na mumukṣuḥ: There is no seeker after liberation.
• na vai muktaḥ: There is no one liberated.
• iti eṣā paramārthatā: This is the Absolute Truth. [1, 2]

Significance:

• Non-Dual Reality: This verse by Gaudapada clarifies that the ultimate reality is entirely free from all dualistic concepts, including the processes of spiritual seeking or the state of liberation itself.
• Context: It comes within the context of analyzing the “unreality” (Vaitathya) of the world and the mind, noting that when knowledge of the Self is attained, all mental projections disappear.
• Absolute vs. Relative: While relative existence appears as a world of change, from the ultimate standpoint, no change ever occurred, as explained on VivekaVani and Tom Das. [1, 2, 6]

[1] https://vivekavani.com/m2v32/
[2] https://tomdas.com/2018/02/22/advaita-vedanta-gaudapadas-method-mandukya-upanishad-karika/
[3] https://swamij.com/upanishad-mandukya-karika.htm
[4] https://vedantastudents.com/mandukya-upanishad-with-shankara-bashyam-volume-17/
[5] https://vedantastudents.com/mandukya-upanishad-with-shankara-bashyam-volume-20/
[6] https://vivekavani.com/m3v32/

#MissKittyVeryWide Yes, #black #holes are #conscious. That is your visible #self-realization. All the matter is consumed apparently leaving nothing but it is the most dense reality of all and not even there. You see an effect of energy that is all. What can your eyes actually contain of #infinity?

I fully expect to keep identifying patterns and #making #time #stand #still. Every time a pattern is broken, time slows down. One of the reasons I'm going to live so long. It just looks like it. Time is slowed down for #MissKitty. She is on the way to #self-realization. #John 14:20. In that day. 💙💙💙

The most important parenting work happens before you have kids.
7 essential themes on why you must raise yourself first. 🐘✨
https://medium.com/big-list-energy/7-essential-parenting-themes-15099af9cc4d
#Parenting #SelfRealization #ConsciousParenting

My first act as senior arts editor of my college newspaper in the fall of 1978 was to hang an Oscar Wilde plaque on the brick wall next to my desk.
https://medium.com/prismnpen/how-i-finally-realized-i-am-queer-a64fd144cd8e?sk=adadc0b654e8fbca4773f6e2f9ff8c09

#LGBTQ #Queer #SelfRealization #Memoir

My first act as senior arts editor of my college newspaper in the fall of 1978 was to hang an Oscar Wilde plaque on the brick wall next to my desk.
https://medium.com/prismnpen/how-i-finally-realized-i-am-queer-a64fd144cd8e?sk=adadc0b654e8fbca4773f6e2f9ff8c09

#LGBTQ #Queer #SelfRealization #Memoir

My first act as senior arts editor of my college newspaper in the fall of 1978 was to hang an Oscar Wilde plaque on the brick wall next to my desk.
https://medium.com/prismnpen/how-i-finally-realized-i-am-queer-a64fd144cd8e?sk=adadc0b654e8fbca4773f6e2f9ff8c09

#LGBTQ #Queer #SelfRealization #Memoir

My first act as senior arts editor of my college newspaper in the fall of 1978 was to hang an Oscar Wilde plaque on the brick wall next to my desk.
https://medium.com/prismnpen/how-i-finally-realized-i-am-queer-a64fd144cd8e?sk=adadc0b654e8fbca4773f6e2f9ff8c09

#LGBTQ #Queer #SelfRealization #Memoir

My first act as senior arts editor of my college newspaper in the fall of 1978 was to hang an Oscar Wilde plaque on the brick wall next to my desk.
https://medium.com/prismnpen/how-i-finally-realized-i-am-queer-a64fd144cd8e?sk=adadc0b654e8fbca4773f6e2f9ff8c09

#LGBTQ #Queer #SelfRealization #Memoir

But I know what I'm working on. #Guru says that #projection can be part of #sadhana, spiritual practice with deep focus, along the way. So I am projecting into the world even though my final #mission is to withdraw from it completely, consciously. #Self-Realization.

#CurrentlyReading “Ramana Maharshi: Teachings of Self-Realization” by Robert Wolfe. Page 63 quote: “All things come and go in the Self; therefore all but the Self is not genuine or truly existent. When the truth is clearly perceived, the ‘I-thought’ (the idea of self existence—for anything other than the Essence) falls away.…Anything which can be named is merely an alias for one thing: that Essence.”
#SelfRealization #Reality #Spirituality #SBNR #SpiritualButNotReligious #Ramana #Brahman #God #Essence #Substance #Existence #Books #AmReading

#CurrentlyReading “Ramana Maharshi: Teachings of Self-Realization” by Robert Wolfe. Page 63 quote: “All things come and go in the Self; therefore all but the Self is not genuine or truly existent. When the truth is clearly perceived, the ‘I-thought’ (the idea of self existence—for anything other than the Essence) falls away.…Anything which can be named is merely an alias for one thing: that Essence.”
#SelfRealization #Reality #Spirituality #SBNR #SpiritualButNotReligious #Ramana #Brahman #God #Essence #Substance #Existence #Books #AmReading

#CurrentlyReading “Ramana Maharshi: Teachings of Self-Realization” by Robert Wolfe. Page 63 quote: “All things come and go in the Self; therefore all but the Self is not genuine or truly existent. When the truth is clearly perceived, the ‘I-thought’ (the idea of self existence—for anything other than the Essence) falls away.…Anything which can be named is merely an alias for one thing: that Essence.”
#SelfRealization #Reality #Spirituality #SBNR #SpiritualButNotReligious #Ramana #Brahman #God #Essence #Substance #Existence #Books #AmReading

#CurrentlyReading “Ramana Maharshi: Teachings of Self-Realization” by Robert Wolfe. Page 63 quote: “All things come and go in the Self; therefore all but the Self is not genuine or truly existent. When the truth is clearly perceived, the ‘I-thought’ (the idea of self existence—for anything other than the Essence) falls away.…Anything which can be named is merely an alias for one thing: that Essence.”
#SelfRealization #Reality #Spirituality #SBNR #SpiritualButNotReligious #Ramana #Brahman #God #Essence #Substance #Existence #Books #AmReading

#CurrentlyReading “Ramana Maharshi: Teachings of Self-Realization” by Robert Wolfe. Page 63 quote: “All things come and go in the Self; therefore all but the Self is not genuine or truly existent. When the truth is clearly perceived, the ‘I-thought’ (the idea of self existence—for anything other than the Essence) falls away.…Anything which can be named is merely an alias for one thing: that Essence.”
#SelfRealization #Reality #Spirituality #SBNR #SpiritualButNotReligious #Ramana #Brahman #God #Essence #Substance #Existence #Books #AmReading

The quote means that inner fulfillment is as essential as physical survival. The practical takeaway is simple: pursue growth, meaning, and authentic work as seriously as income. #PersonalGrowth #PurposeDriven #SelfRealization #MeaningfulWork #MentalHealth
https://stayingalive.in/thought-of-the-day/hunger-beyond-bread.html

The quote means that inner fulfillment is as essential as physical survival. The practical takeaway is simple: pursue growth, meaning, and authentic work as seriously as income. #PersonalGrowth #PurposeDriven #SelfRealization #MeaningfulWork #MentalHealth
https://stayingalive.in/thought-of-the-day/hunger-beyond-bread.html

The quote means that inner fulfillment is as essential as physical survival. The practical takeaway is simple: pursue growth, meaning, and authentic work as seriously as income. #PersonalGrowth #PurposeDriven #SelfRealization #MeaningfulWork #MentalHealth
https://stayingalive.in/thought-of-the-day/hunger-beyond-bread.html

The quote means that inner fulfillment is as essential as physical survival. The practical takeaway is simple: pursue growth, meaning, and authentic work as seriously as income. #PersonalGrowth #PurposeDriven #SelfRealization #MeaningfulWork #MentalHealth
https://stayingalive.in/thought-of-the-day/hunger-beyond-bread.html

The quote means that inner fulfillment is as essential as physical survival. The practical takeaway is simple: pursue growth, meaning, and authentic work as seriously as income. #PersonalGrowth #PurposeDriven #SelfRealization #MeaningfulWork #MentalHealth
https://stayingalive.in/thought-of-the-day/hunger-beyond-bread.html

... imagined by a larger #consciousness up fractal. The ultimate, #Self-Realization, the #Yogis, is total merger. There is no you and me anymore. When you talk with a Yogi, they do not perceive you as other. Thus Jesus saying, As Thyself. Ding ding ding. Did I win yet? 😹😹😹

... imagined by a larger #consciousness up fractal. The ultimate, #Self-Realization, the #Yogis, is total merger. There is no you and me anymore. When you talk with a Yogi, they do not perceive you as other. Thus Jesus saying, As Thyself. Ding ding ding. Did I win yet? 😹😹😹