#embraceextendextinguish — Public Fediverse posts
Live and recent posts from across the Fediverse tagged #embraceextendextinguish, aggregated by home.social.
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I agree, but besides any ecological cost, unless there are a wide range of VERY equivalent prompt providers, this would allow “market” concentration and capture of the previously decentralised and resilient #openSource community. #embraceExtendExtinguish — not just for Microsoft anymore.
RE: https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:thjclcpqkw7t33yyxvbmvrcf/post/3mbslkhkadc2g -
So MS are the lower-friction option for getting students doing stuff on the cloud (they offer free credits with no credit card needed, unlike Goog, AWS). I was looking to get into the GitLab for Education scheme. You must be a degree-issuing institution to get on that program. Guess which other distributed version control SaaS provider offers their service to *any* education establishment (schools included)? #BaitAndSwitch #HeartsAndMinds #EmbraceExtendExtinguish #NeverForgetNeverForgive
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Microsoft To Shut Down Skype in May
#EmbraceExtendExtinguish - Microsofts de facto corporate motto.
Another good occasion to switch to #FreeAsInFreedom softwarehttps://slashdot.org/story/25/02/28/1426223/microsoft-to-shut-down-skype-in-may-shift-users-to-teams
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@vint @metallcorn @th3rdsergeevich Не верю я этому блюскаю. Вот прекрасная аргументация:
«First they embrace the enemy technology (this is where Bluesky supports federation), then they extend its functionality to where people depend on your add-ons (say if they extended ActivityPub by something like emoji reactions), and then they use that leverage to extinguish the competition».
https://linuxrocks.online/@lianna@mastodon.gamedev.place/113515349054637343#bluesky #Fediverse #ActivityPub #embraceExtendExtinguish #EEE
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@winterschon @mms @stefano can the #AfferoGPL be a safeguard against #EmbraceExtendExtinguish?
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@Deborah Hartmann Preuss, pcc 🇨🇦 Embrace-Extend-Extinguish.
Embrace = they join the Fediverse.
Extend = they introduce stuff that's non-standard and not really compatible with what already exists. Everything else has to adopt that non-standard stuff or risk becoming incompatible. Since they're one of the biggest players or the biggest player, they can get away with it.
Threads has yet to do this. Mastodon has been doing it all the time.
Extinguish = They decide they don't care for interoperability anymore. They become incompatible with everything else. As big as they are, they get away with it. But they basically kill everything else off because all that "everything else" can hardly survive without being connected to that one big player.
Mastodon has more power to do this than Threads because Threads is a late addition to the Fediverse, Threads isn't even really welcome in the Fediverse, only a tiny fraction of Threads even federates, and I guess that to more people than not, Mastodon is the Fediverse.
(Public reply because the original post is public. I'm on Hubzilla and not on Mastodon, and on Hubzilla, all replies always have the exact same permissions as the original post. Permission changes within a thread are not supported.)
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #EEE #EmbraceExtendExtinguish -
@Johannes Hentschel
Their interest is hegemony.
They won't be able to achieve that. For that, they'd all have to join forces. Instead, the big players would rather bash each other's heads in.
If Zuckerberg wanted to buy out the Fediverse through the SWF and assume full control over it, that'd go hard against what Flipboard wants, what Ghost wants, what Mastodon wants etc.
If you think Zuck and Gargron will join forces in EEE'ing the Fediverse, I have a bridge to sell you. If Zuck wants to EEE the Fediverse, this includes Mastodon which is why everyone panics. But Gargron himself wants to EEE the Fediverse, too. Mastodon users don't notice it, but everyone else does, from Misskey to (streams). And if he could, that'd include assuming indirect control over Threads by forcing Mastodon's proprietary, non-standard solutions upon it.
Write.as, maintainer of WriteFreely, is a supporter of the SWF, too. WriteFreely is basically one of the Fediverse's alternatives to Medium. Notice how Medium itself is a supporter. Medium won't try to build a monopoly and get rid of WriteFreely through the SWF if WriteFreely itself has a saying in this. And so does Automattic because Medium competes against WordPress.
Mastodon vs Write.as + Medium + Automattic = "The Fediverse is for microblogging, we won't support more than a tiny subset of HTML, and the rest of the Fediverse has to adjust" vs "Everything in the Fediverse must support full HTML rendering for Article-type objects."
And the SWF won't grant voting power according to how much money someone invests into it. Meta won't be able to out-vote everyone else by pumping a billion into the SWF. If that was possible, @Evan Prodromou, as the very founder of the SWF, would have no voting power at all.
Lastly, these are the supporters. The financial backers. Not the only members and even less the only members the SWF will ever have. It's just kind of difficult for a Fediverse project with nothing but one or two spare-time devs behind it to join the SWF.
CC: @Mike McCue
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #MetaPlatforms #Threads #Automattic #WordPress #Medium #Write.as #WriteFreely #SWF #SocialWebFoundation #EEE #EmbraceExtendExtinguish -
@Mike McCue A new proposal for a Fediverse logo is a Unicode character: ⁂ (U+2042).
Most of all, whether we like it or not, millions of people are being exposed to this icon everyday on Threads as a symbol of the fediverse so I think it’s a pragmatic choice.
This would not only allow, but actively help Meta assume control over the Fediverse.
#FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Asterism #FediverseSymbol #FediverseLogo #Meta #EmbraceExtendExtinguish -
So, Threads has been scraping the fedi for feeding into their "Moderation Machine", resulting in a block list which includes Mastodon.Social
This confirms the suspicions of Embrace Extend Extinguish.
First step was to get big instance people hyped up about getting more audience and clout.
Second step: Block the big instances.
Third step: Due to uproar following from the thwarting of step 1, people will start to pressure their instances to comply with Threads moderation requirements (like, anything not supportive of Israeli bombardments is hate speech).But you all knew that already.
Time to move off the big instances, they are going to bend over for big business, and then you might as well be on Facebook.
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#EmbraceExtendExtinguish aplicado a las causas justas y los movimientos sociales:
Primero se infiltran en las mismas.
Después toman el control de las mismas y las moldean a su gusto y placer.
Por último deciden quienes merecen formar parte y quienes no, reemplazando su status de popular por el de uno sectario.Así se desacreditan las causas justas y los movimientos sociales por dentro.
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Ooh, can’t wait to read the gushing praise from Mastodon GmbH for this on the Mastodon blog.
(Mastodon gGmbH and Meta are besties, you see. https://www.platformer.news/mastodon-interview-eugen-rochko-meta-bluesky-threads-federation/)
Is it up yet?
#mastodon #meta #besties #allTheBetterToSeeYouWith #EmbraceExtendExtinguish https://social.wildeboer.net/@jwildeboer/112391192672337102
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Ah but if #Mastodon implements controls in replies and #quoteposts it's suddenly not #EmbraceExtendExtinguish or #EEE and it's actually good because safety yadda yadda. :seija_coffee:
These #fedipact people literally think that EEE in the #fediverse is when Mastodon isn't doing it lmao :reimu_sigh:
#fediversemeta
RE: https://mas.to/users/tokyo_0/statuses/112382573964635856 -
Tbh I'm not enthusiastic about a #Mastodon #hardfork. Not necessarily because of the #techdebt or even because it's technically inferior to other #ActivityPub implementations (which are both true), but because I cannot be sure if that new fork is going to adopt the same attitude as Mastodon in choking the rest of the #fediverse with its proprietary extensions and #EmbraceExtendExtinguish / #EEE.
I'd rather not have the uncertainty. Either start from scratch like #GoToSocial is doing or help the other two mainstream AP families which are #Misskey and #Pleroma. That's the only way we can ensure no implementation overwhelmingly dominates the fedi. :seija_coffee:
#fediversemeta
RE: https://hachyderm.io/users/jenniferplusplus/statuses/112355187216928083 -
@[email protected] Uhh I think you've gotten it fundamentally wrong here :thinking_cirno:
Whether your instance's posts appear on the blocked instance or not doesn't depend on the blocked having #AuthorizedFetch, but rather your instance having AF. That instance can still fetch your posts because your instance doesn't check if the request is signed (so an instance can sign all their fetching but still not enable AF, which is what vanilla #Misskey currently does) and from which instance the fetch request is coming from (hence the "authorized").
Threads already defederates from instances that don't sign their fetching (by design because they've enabled AF), but they don't care if an instance has enabled AF (it's that instance's problem to deal with posts still appearing in Threads).
The problem (I have) with AF is that it's pretty much just #securitytheater. The documentation doesn't seem to account for this possibility, but if your adversary has enough money for some cheap domains and is well-versed in how #ActivityPub works nowadays, then it's trivial for them to forge signatures to look like their fetches come from an innocent server, therefore effectively bypassing the check and allowing the blocked to get your posts into their instance. This is already being done in the wild (with the #Soapbox developer doing this to bypass Threads' fediblock being the most infamous recently).
It also complicates AP implementations because now you have to deal with more cryptography with all that signing and verifying of requests. And signing alone does have a significant impact on performance. It's impossible to create a 100% compatible AP implementation from the spec alone without looking at Mastodon's implementation. That's where the #EmbraceExtendExtinguish or #EEE comes to play.
So overall it's the overeagerness of #MastoAdmins in adopting AF or #SecureMode without understanding the compatibility and performance implications that brought us to this mess today. -
@:mima_rule: Mima-sama
Threads overrunning the Fediverse, pushing its culture and its limitations upon the rest of the Fediverse, forcing the rest of the Fediverse to adopt its own proprietary and non-standard stuff to stay compatible and trying to "be the Fediverse": 😠😖🤬🤮👎🖕💢🐖💩💀
Mastodon overrunning the Fediverse, pushing its culture and its limitations upon the rest of the Fediverse and forcing the rest of the Fediverse to adopt its own proprietary and non-standard stuff to stay compatible and trying to "be the Fediverse": 😍😁🤗🥰👍👌👏🫶💙💯
Of course, none of those who recognise this hypocrisy as such are on Mastodon themselves and not on Threads either.
Oh, and by the way: No, Mastodon wasn't here first. It wasn't even the first project to support ActivityPub.
CC: @BeAware :veriweed: @Kitty Wife Milkshake
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Threads #Mastodon #EEE #EmbraceExtendExtinguish #Hypocrisy -
@liaizon so #meta made their own symbol for the #fediverse.
I smell #embraceextendextinguish from a parsec of distance.
I suggest to put a warning to every interaction with any fediverse user coming from meta -
@roberto_balutsos
Se ben ricordo #Threads è #defederato perché temono un mortale "#abbraccia #estendi #estingui" (#embraceextendextinguish per gli #anglofili)
@amministratore -
@balterwenjamin42 @andricheli @macberg
#enshittification usually comes overnight. One day #obsidian Wikilinks might not open in #Loqseq, APIs get paywalled, dotfiles get converted to obfuscated format for "your privacy and security" and you're one announcement away from being tied to a pole. But enthusiasts will keep saying that .md is an open format. -
Always has been :KoishiGun:
#QuotePosts #QuoteBoosts #QuoteTweets #Mastodon #Threads #Facebook #Meta #Fediverse #EmbraceExtendExtinguish #EEE #Misskey #Pleroma #Akkoma #Sharkey #Firefish #Calckey #Hubzilla #Friendica #fediblockmeta #fediversemeta
RE: https://authorship.studio/item/1c285421-a8cb-4ec4-9f4a-9fd435d8aaf4 -
PLEASE DO NOT VOTE FOR this issue. :RumiaPray: If you are on a #fediverse software other than #Mastodon (like #Misskey, #Pleroma, #Akkoma, #Sharkey, and #Friendica), please give the issue's first post a 👎.
If this "privacy setting" for #quoteposts is implemented with it enabled by default, the result will be disastrous. :reisensweat: Since there is no other way to enforce this setting other than #defederation, we are going to see Mastodon servers strong-arming those software developers who are "non-compliant" by threatening a #fediblock. :reisensweat: Developers of the -key and -oma families will suddenly have to scramble to make their implementation of #quotetweets compatible with Mastodon's "privacy-friendly" implementation. :satsuki_sadge: This way of "extending" the fediverse is not acceptable, and everyone who has opposed #Facebook joining the fediverse due to #EmbraceExtendExtinguish should also oppose this issue which just eventually leads to the same result.
#fediversemeta #fediblockmeta #EEE
RE: https://mastodon.social/users/Methylcobalamin/statuses/111703640036534443 -
Interview by @mike with @Gargron.
So according to Eugen, he's been using XMPP during a time when people let their desktop PCs run all the time, which is ideal for XMPP's requirement to maintain an active connection from sender to recipient in order to actually deliver messages.
But when the world transitioned from desktop PCs to mobile phones, XMPP's requirement to stay always on was just not practical, and the world moved on from XMPP and onto other platforms.
The only way people used XMPP was through Facebook and Google Talk, but the mainstream really didn't have a strong appreciation for XMPP.
According to Eugen, Email is still going strong because everyone knows how to work with it
Effectively, embracing, extending, extinguishing is just not a thing for email yet.
https://flipboard.video/w/cTBu4HusskGTuPBahqm6WY
#EEE #EmbraceExtendExtinguish #XMPP #Meta #BlockMeta #Threads #BlockThreads #AntiMetaFediPact
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A very important article by Lionel Dricot ( @ploum ) :
https://ploum.net/2023-06-23-how-to-kill-decentralised-networks.html
"But the Fediverse is not looking for market dominance or profit. The Fediverse is not looking for growth. It is offering a place for freedom. People joining the Fediverse are those looking for freedom."
The problem is that people coming to fedi from proprietary networks do not change their ethos.
#foss #mastodon #decentralization #SiValleyGrift #EmbraceExtendExtinguish
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Because I probably will be part of an admin team of a soon-to-launch #Mastodon Instance, here's an article by @ploum on a possible outcome of #Threads "joining" the #Fediverse.
TL;DR: Beware of #EmbraceExtendExtinguish!
Although the post is 6 months old, it's still as relevant as ever.
https://ploum.net/2023-06-23-how-to-kill-decentralised-networks.html
Thanks @jvanvinkenroye for pointing me at it!
cc @ankrjoe
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The Fediverse is a small web decentralized community that communicates with the ActivityPub Standard.
Since Xitter was placed into the hands of a spoiled brat, it has seen some growth. Enough growth for the big web (where you are the product) to notice.
Threads is the big web trying to suck the users out of the small web yet again, an Embrace Extend Extinguish if you say so.
#Fediverse #ActivityPub #Threads #EmbraceExtendExtinguish #Meta #Facebook #Instagram
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@andreabont
#facebook federando #Threads con #ActivityPub si sta comportando esattamente come #google fece con #talk ed #xmpp. Finì nel più bieco #embraceextendextinguish rendendo XMPP sostanzialmente irrilevante