#fediversemeta — Public Fediverse posts

@Nicolas Mouart noPhD, noMA No. I'm someone who wants to write image descriptions and alt-text not somehow, but the best way I can.

For this, I've been gathering information from a whole lot of sources for more than three years. More recently, I've started compiling it in a wiki so I can share it with others. When the wiki is done, it will have over 30 individual rules and guidelines for describing images and writing alt-texts.

125 characters as a limit are widespread because screen readers used to have a 125-character hard cap at some point in the 2010s or so. They simply couldn't read alt-texts beyond the 125-character mark. A while later, the hard limit was raised to 200 characters.

Nowadays, there is no hard character limit in screen readers to speak of anymore. Mastodon user @Eric Eggert says so, too: https://yatil.net/blog/there-is-no-character-limit-for-alt-text

The lowest actual character limit that must be heeded in the Fediverse is 512 characters. It is imposed by Misskey, a microblogging server application that's part of the Fediverse and fully federated with Mastodon, but more powerful than Mastodon (https://misskey-hub.net/en/; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misskey), as well as its various forks and forks of forks such as Calckey (defunct, but servers still exist), Firefish (ditto), Iceshrimp-JS, Sharkey, Catodon or CherryPick.

By design, Misskey is supposed to truncate alt-texts that are longer than 512 characters at the 512-character mark. However, due to a bug that still isn't fixed, it deletes the alt-text instead. The same applies to all the "Forkeys". If you write a longer alt-text, users on Misskey and the Forkeys will believe you haven't supplied an alt-text to begin with. You take a big effort upon you and write this monster of an alt-text, and regardless, users on Misskey, Sharkey & Co. will think you're another ableist swine who can't be bothered.

The only other thing that speaks against the 1000+-character alt-texts that are so popular on Mastodon is simply useability: A screen reader can navigate normal text, i.e. "rewind" a few words or to the beginning of the sentence of whatever. It can't navigate alt-text in this way, though. So let's suppose you're having a 1000-character alt-text read out to you. Around the 900-character mark, something distracts you. You have to have the last sentence re-read. No dice. The only thing the screen reader can do is jump back to the beginning of the alt-text and re-read the whole thing.

Still, Mastodon, being as Mastodon-centric as it has always been, loves long alt-texts. For one, it loves to use alt-texts to write around the 500-character limit which, by the way, is very bad.

But it also appears to love long and detailed image descriptions. They appear to have become part of Mastodon's culture. I'm actually waiting for Fediverse users being sanctioned in some way for providing alt-texts that adhere to Web accessibility standards, but that are too short for at least some Mastodon users' standards. In fact, I'm waiting for the first Mastodon user sanctioning someone else because they consider an alt-text of 500 characters too short and lacking details.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #Misskey #Forkey #Forkeys #Calckey #Firefish #Iceshrimp #IceshrimpJS #Sharkey #Catodon #CherryPick #MastodonCulture #MastodonCentricity #MastodonNormativity #CharacterLimit #CharacterLimits #CharacterLimitMeta #CWCharacterLimitMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta

@Nicolas Mouart noPhD, noMA No. I'm someone who wants to write image descriptions and alt-text not somehow, but the best way I can.

For this, I've been gathering information from a whole lot of sources for more than three years. More recently, I've started compiling it in a wiki so I can share it with others. When the wiki is done, it will have over 30 individual rules and guidelines for describing images and writing alt-texts.

125 characters as a limit are widespread because screen readers used to have a 125-character hard cap at some point in the 2010s or so. They simply couldn't read alt-texts beyond the 125-character mark. A while later, the hard limit was raised to 200 characters.

Nowadays, there is no hard character limit in screen readers to speak of anymore. Mastodon user @Eric Eggert says so, too: https://yatil.net/blog/there-is-no-character-limit-for-alt-text

The lowest actual character limit that must be heeded in the Fediverse is 512 characters. It is imposed by Misskey, a microblogging server application that's part of the Fediverse and fully federated with Mastodon, but more powerful than Mastodon (https://misskey-hub.net/en/; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misskey), as well as its various forks and forks of forks such as Calckey (defunct, but servers still exist), Firefish (ditto), Iceshrimp-JS, Sharkey, Catodon or CherryPick.

By design, Misskey is supposed to truncate alt-texts that are longer than 512 characters at the 512-character mark. However, due to a bug that still isn't fixed, it deletes the alt-text instead. The same applies to all the "Forkeys". If you write a longer alt-text, users on Misskey and the Forkeys will believe you haven't supplied an alt-text to begin with. You take a big effort upon you and write this monster of an alt-text, and regardless, users on Misskey, Sharkey & Co. will think you're another ableist swine who can't be bothered.

The only other thing that speaks against the 1000+-character alt-texts that are so popular on Mastodon is simply useability: A screen reader can navigate normal text, i.e. "rewind" a few words or to the beginning of the sentence of whatever. It can't navigate alt-text in this way, though. So let's suppose you're having a 1000-character alt-text read out to you. Around the 900-character mark, something distracts you. You have to have the last sentence re-read. No dice. The only thing the screen reader can do is jump back to the beginning of the alt-text and re-read the whole thing.

Still, Mastodon, being as Mastodon-centric as it has always been, loves long alt-texts. For one, it loves to use alt-texts to write around the 500-character limit which, by the way, is very bad.

But it also appears to love long and detailed image descriptions. They appear to have become part of Mastodon's culture. I'm actually waiting for Fediverse users being sanctioned in some way for providing alt-texts that adhere to Web accessibility standards, but that are too short for at least some Mastodon users' standards. In fact, I'm waiting for the first Mastodon user sanctioning someone else because they consider an alt-text of 500 characters too short and lacking details.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #Misskey #Forkey #Forkeys #Calckey #Firefish #Iceshrimp #IceshrimpJS #Sharkey #Catodon #CherryPick #MastodonCulture #MastodonCentricity #MastodonNormativity #CharacterLimit #CharacterLimits #CharacterLimitMeta #CWCharacterLimitMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta

@Nicolas Mouart noPhD, noMA As for the character limit, that's because Gemini is sourcing old and outdated information of which it doesn't know that it's old and outdated.

I'm working on an extensive wiki about image descriptions and alt-texts for the Fediverse. This is the page about how long alt-text can and should be: https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/wiki/jupiter_rowland/How(20)to(20)describe(20)images(20)in(20)the(20)Fediverse/How(20)long(20)can(20)alt-text(20)be(3f)

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta

@Nicolas Mouart noPhD, noMA As for the character limit, that's because Gemini is sourcing old and outdated information of which it doesn't know that it's old and outdated.

I'm working on an extensive wiki about image descriptions and alt-texts for the Fediverse. This is the page about how long alt-text can and should be: https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/wiki/jupiter_rowland/How(20)to(20)describe(20)images(20)in(20)the(20)Fediverse/How(20)long(20)can(20)alt-text(20)be(3f)

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta

@Frank Paul Silye Some have switched to self-hosted lightweight microblogging applications such as GoToSocial or snac.

Some have upgraded to something like Pleroma, Akkoma, Misskey, Firefish, Iceshrimp or Sharkey. A few have even taken the big step up to Friendica or even Hubzilla, (streams) or Forte.

And then there are those who have left the Fediverse altogether and moved to the ATmosphere, mostly Bluesky.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #GoToSocial #snac #Pleroma #Akkoma #Misskey #Firefish #Iceshrimp #Sharkey #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #ATmosphere #Bluesky

@Frank Paul Silye Some have switched to self-hosted lightweight microblogging applications such as GoToSocial or snac.

Some have upgraded to something like Pleroma, Akkoma, Misskey, Firefish, Iceshrimp or Sharkey. A few have even taken the big step up to Friendica or even Hubzilla, (streams) or Forte.

And then there are those who have left the Fediverse altogether and moved to the ATmosphere, mostly Bluesky.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #GoToSocial #snac #Pleroma #Akkoma #Misskey #Firefish #Iceshrimp #Sharkey #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #ATmosphere #Bluesky

@Frank Paul Silye Some have switched to self-hosted lightweight microblogging applications such as GoToSocial or snac.

Some have upgraded to something like Pleroma, Akkoma, Misskey, Firefish, Iceshrimp or Sharkey. A few have even taken the big step up to Friendica or even Hubzilla, (streams) or Forte.

And then there are those who have left the Fediverse altogether and moved to the ATmosphere, mostly Bluesky.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #GoToSocial #snac #Pleroma #Akkoma #Misskey #Firefish #Iceshrimp #Sharkey #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #ATmosphere #Bluesky

@Frank Paul Silye Some have switched to self-hosted lightweight microblogging applications such as GoToSocial or snac.

Some have upgraded to something like Pleroma, Akkoma, Misskey, Firefish, Iceshrimp or Sharkey. A few have even taken the big step up to Friendica or even Hubzilla, (streams) or Forte.

And then there are those who have left the Fediverse altogether and moved to the ATmosphere, mostly Bluesky.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #GoToSocial #snac #Pleroma #Akkoma #Misskey #Firefish #Iceshrimp #Sharkey #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #ATmosphere #Bluesky

@Frank Paul Silye Some have switched to self-hosted lightweight microblogging applications such as GoToSocial or snac.

Some have upgraded to something like Pleroma, Akkoma, Misskey, Firefish, Iceshrimp or Sharkey. A few have even taken the big step up to Friendica or even Hubzilla, (streams) or Forte.

And then there are those who have left the Fediverse altogether and moved to the ATmosphere, mostly Bluesky.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #GoToSocial #snac #Pleroma #Akkoma #Misskey #Firefish #Iceshrimp #Sharkey #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #ATmosphere #Bluesky

@Natanox 🇺🇦🇵🇸 They don't.

First of all, that'd require searching the entire Fediverse for accounts and channels that have blocked you. Your Mastodon account has no records of who has blocked you, that's why searching is necessary.

Also, it'd require remotely re-writing the block settings on accounts and channels of every Fediverse software, from Mastodon to Hubzilla which works absolutely nothing like Mastodon internally.

Lastly, next to the huge effort, that'd simply be a stupid idea.

Even nomadic identity (https://joinfediverse.wiki/Nomadic_identity) doesn't provide this feature. That has to say something.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #Hubzilla #NomadicIdentity #Block #BlockMeta #CWBlockMeta

@Jill ☁️ @Friedemann Das stimmt nicht so ganz. Hubzilla hat die Hubzilla Association, an die man sich wenden kann. Zu der gehört auch einer der beiden Kernentwickler.

Offizielle Website (als Ausgangspunkt): https://hubzilla.org/

Hubzilla Association: https://hubzilla.org/page/info/association

Impressum der Hubzilla Association: https://hubzilla.org/page/info/imprint

#FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Hubzilla #HubzillaAssociation

@Jill ☁️ @Friedemann Das stimmt nicht so ganz. Hubzilla hat die Hubzilla Association, an die man sich wenden kann. Zu der gehört auch einer der beiden Kernentwickler.

Offizielle Website (als Ausgangspunkt): https://hubzilla.org/

Hubzilla Association: https://hubzilla.org/page/info/association

Impressum der Hubzilla Association: https://hubzilla.org/page/info/imprint

#FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Hubzilla #HubzillaAssociation

@Jill ☁️ @Friedemann Das stimmt nicht so ganz. Hubzilla hat die Hubzilla Association, an die man sich wenden kann. Zu der gehört auch einer der beiden Kernentwickler.

Offizielle Website (als Ausgangspunkt): https://hubzilla.org/

Hubzilla Association: https://hubzilla.org/page/info/association

Impressum der Hubzilla Association: https://hubzilla.org/page/info/imprint

#FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Hubzilla #HubzillaAssociation

@happyborg

People can follow hashtags

People on Mastodon can follow hashtags. But just because people on Mastodon can, doesn't mean people everywhere else in the Fediverse can, too.

AFAIK, some of the minimalist microblogging server applications designed for self-hosting don't offer this feature. I'm not sure if Pleroma and Akkoma have it.

Hubzilla, which is what I'm commenting from, definitely doesn't have this feature. And Hubzilla is anything but minimalist. It's the most powerful and versatile of all Fediverse server applications.

Also, if you can follow hashtags, you can only follow hashtags on your home server. But if you're on a small server, hardly any messages with these hashtags wash up there in the first place. You'll miss a lot. If you're on a private, single-user server, following hashtags is completely useless because the only messages with these hashtags that reach the server are those that you receive from your own contacts anyway.

(streams) and Forte, both being streamlined and more advanced Hubzilla descendants, can follow hashtags. But there simply aren't any big (streams) or Forte servers, especially not with lots of traffic from Mastodon. Most of the few (streams) and Forte users run their own single-user servers.

This is also why it doesn't matter much whether snac or GoToSocial users can follow hashtags: These two are almost exclusively used as private, single-user servers because that's what they're designed for first and foremost.

To make it short: Most Fediverse users outside the big Mastodon servers can only follow hashtags by relying on "bots" that forward posts with these hashtags which they find on e.g. mastodon.social.

In fact, this is good for Mastodon users as well. It helps circumvent two of Mastodon's disadvantages.

One is that it has no support for groups whatsoever (the Fediverse does have groups in case you don't know). If Mastodon users need to talk about a certain topic, they can't do so in a group about that topic. All they can do is shout into the ether with certain hashtags and hope that the right person catches their toot.

The other one is that this is highly unlikely on Mastodon itself. On Mastodon, most content remains unseen.

Mastodon doesn't offer a list of unread messages in the timeline, not even a counter. All that Mastodon users can do is scroll down their timeline until they either hit content that they've already seen, or until they've got no more time, or until they want no more. Anything below will remain unseen. It's sad that this counts as the default or even without alternatives in the Fediverse. And most Mastodon users follow so many accounts and channels (plus hashtags occasionally) that they can impossibly read all the messages they receive.

Let's suppose a Mastodon user wants to talk about Hubzilla for some reason. I've seen this happen often enough. The only chance they have, not knowing that the @hubzilla exists, much less that they can join it from Mastodon, is by tooting into the void with the hashtag #Hubzilla and hoping that either one of their followers or someone somewhere out there on their followers' servers follows the hashtag #Hubzilla.

But none of their followers comes online soon enough to scroll down to their toot. They all have tons of other content in their timelines above that toot, so they never scroll all the way down to it. If not, they simply don't know what Hubzilla is. And even if any Mastodon users follow the hashtag #Hubzilla (which I doubt), this still doesn't mean that one of them scrolls all the way down to that toot.

And then there's me. As I've already said, I'm on Hubzilla. I can't follow hashtags directly. Instead, I "follow" the hashtag #Hubzilla by having this hashtag on the FediBuzz relay (https://relay.fedi.buzz/) as a contact. Or, in Mastodon terms, by following it. FediBuzz is not a bot server. It's a relay that server admins can connect their servers to to have more public content on their servers (if their server software supports relays, that is). Something completely normal on Mastodon, especially on small servers.

So when someone on Mastodon toots something with #Hubzilla, I receive it as a new post. But I don't have to scroll down a timeline of unknown length to find it. I have a counter for unread messages and other unnoticed actions. It unfolds into a list of unread messages and other unnoticed actions. From there, I can get directly to that post. I will notice it. And I'll usually be able to help.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Hashtag #Hashtags #HashtagMeta #CWHashtagMeta #Relay #Relays

@happyborg

People can follow hashtags

People on Mastodon can follow hashtags. But just because people on Mastodon can, doesn't mean people everywhere else in the Fediverse can, too.

AFAIK, some of the minimalist microblogging server applications designed for self-hosting don't offer this feature. I'm not sure if Pleroma and Akkoma have it.

Hubzilla, which is what I'm commenting from, definitely doesn't have this feature. And Hubzilla is anything but minimalist. It's the most powerful and versatile of all Fediverse server applications.

Also, if you can follow hashtags, you can only follow hashtags on your home server. But if you're on a small server, hardly any messages with these hashtags wash up there in the first place. You'll miss a lot. If you're on a private, single-user server, following hashtags is completely useless because the only messages with these hashtags that reach the server are those that you receive from your own contacts anyway.

(streams) and Forte, both being streamlined and more advanced Hubzilla descendants, can follow hashtags. But there simply aren't any big (streams) or Forte servers, especially not with lots of traffic from Mastodon. Most of the few (streams) and Forte users run their own single-user servers.

This is also why it doesn't matter much whether snac or GoToSocial users can follow hashtags: These two are almost exclusively used as private, single-user servers because that's what they're designed for first and foremost.

To make it short: Most Fediverse users outside the big Mastodon servers can only follow hashtags by relying on "bots" that forward posts with these hashtags which they find on e.g. mastodon.social.

In fact, this is good for Mastodon users as well. It helps circumvent two of Mastodon's disadvantages.

One is that it has no support for groups whatsoever (the Fediverse does have groups in case you don't know). If Mastodon users need to talk about a certain topic, they can't do so in a group about that topic. All they can do is shout into the ether with certain hashtags and hope that the right person catches their toot.

The other one is that this is highly unlikely on Mastodon itself. On Mastodon, most content remains unseen.

Mastodon doesn't offer a list of unread messages in the timeline, not even a counter. All that Mastodon users can do is scroll down their timeline until they either hit content that they've already seen, or until they've got no more time, or until they want no more. Anything below will remain unseen. It's sad that this counts as the default or even without alternatives in the Fediverse. And most Mastodon users follow so many accounts and channels (plus hashtags occasionally) that they can impossibly read all the messages they receive.

Let's suppose a Mastodon user wants to talk about Hubzilla for some reason. I've seen this happen often enough. The only chance they have, not knowing that the @hubzilla exists, much less that they can join it from Mastodon, is by tooting into the void with the hashtag #Hubzilla and hoping that either one of their followers or someone somewhere out there on their followers' servers follows the hashtag #Hubzilla.

But none of their followers comes online soon enough to scroll down to their toot. They all have tons of other content in their timelines above that toot, so they never scroll all the way down to it. If not, they simply don't know what Hubzilla is. And even if any Mastodon users follow the hashtag #Hubzilla (which I doubt), this still doesn't mean that one of them scrolls all the way down to that toot.

And then there's me. As I've already said, I'm on Hubzilla. I can't follow hashtags directly. Instead, I "follow" the hashtag #Hubzilla by having this hashtag on the FediBuzz relay (https://relay.fedi.buzz/) as a contact. Or, in Mastodon terms, by following it. FediBuzz is not a bot server. It's a relay that server admins can connect their servers to to have more public content on their servers (if their server software supports relays, that is). Something completely normal on Mastodon, especially on small servers.

So when someone on Mastodon toots something with #Hubzilla, I receive it as a new post. But I don't have to scroll down a timeline of unknown length to find it. I have a counter for unread messages and other unnoticed actions. It unfolds into a list of unread messages and other unnoticed actions. From there, I can get directly to that post. I will notice it. And I'll usually be able to help.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Hashtag #Hashtags #HashtagMeta #CWHashtagMeta #Relay #Relays

@happyborg

People can follow hashtags

People on Mastodon can follow hashtags. But just because people on Mastodon can, doesn't mean people everywhere else in the Fediverse can, too.

AFAIK, some of the minimalist microblogging server applications designed for self-hosting don't offer this feature. I'm not sure if Pleroma and Akkoma have it.

Hubzilla, which is what I'm commenting from, definitely doesn't have this feature. And Hubzilla is anything but minimalist. It's the most powerful and versatile of all Fediverse server applications.

Also, if you can follow hashtags, you can only follow hashtags on your home server. But if you're on a small server, hardly any messages with these hashtags wash up there in the first place. You'll miss a lot. If you're on a private, single-user server, following hashtags is completely useless because the only messages with these hashtags that reach the server are those that you receive from your own contacts anyway.

(streams) and Forte, both being streamlined and more advanced Hubzilla descendants, can follow hashtags. But there simply aren't any big (streams) or Forte servers, especially not with lots of traffic from Mastodon. Most of the few (streams) and Forte users run their own single-user servers.

This is also why it doesn't matter much whether snac or GoToSocial users can follow hashtags: These two are almost exclusively used as private, single-user servers because that's what they're designed for first and foremost.

To make it short: Most Fediverse users outside the big Mastodon servers can only follow hashtags by relying on "bots" that forward posts with these hashtags which they find on e.g. mastodon.social.

In fact, this is good for Mastodon users as well. It helps circumvent two of Mastodon's disadvantages.

One is that it has no support for groups whatsoever (the Fediverse does have groups in case you don't know). If Mastodon users need to talk about a certain topic, they can't do so in a group about that topic. All they can do is shout into the ether with certain hashtags and hope that the right person catches their toot.

The other one is that this is highly unlikely on Mastodon itself. On Mastodon, most content remains unseen.

Mastodon doesn't offer a list of unread messages in the timeline, not even a counter. All that Mastodon users can do is scroll down their timeline until they either hit content that they've already seen, or until they've got no more time, or until they want no more. Anything below will remain unseen. It's sad that this counts as the default or even without alternatives in the Fediverse. And most Mastodon users follow so many accounts and channels (plus hashtags occasionally) that they can impossibly read all the messages they receive.

Let's suppose a Mastodon user wants to talk about Hubzilla for some reason. I've seen this happen often enough. The only chance they have, not knowing that the @hubzilla exists, much less that they can join it from Mastodon, is by tooting into the void with the hashtag #Hubzilla and hoping that either one of their followers or someone somewhere out there on their followers' servers follows the hashtag #Hubzilla.

But none of their followers comes online soon enough to scroll down to their toot. They all have tons of other content in their timelines above that toot, so they never scroll all the way down to it. If not, they simply don't know what Hubzilla is. And even if any Mastodon users follow the hashtag #Hubzilla (which I doubt), this still doesn't mean that one of them scrolls all the way down to that toot.

And then there's me. As I've already said, I'm on Hubzilla. I can't follow hashtags directly. Instead, I "follow" the hashtag #Hubzilla by having this hashtag on the FediBuzz relay (https://relay.fedi.buzz/) as a contact. Or, in Mastodon terms, by following it. FediBuzz is not a bot server. It's a relay that server admins can connect their servers to to have more public content on their servers (if their server software supports relays, that is). Something completely normal on Mastodon, especially on small servers.

So when someone on Mastodon toots something with #Hubzilla, I receive it as a new post. But I don't have to scroll down a timeline of unknown length to find it. I have a counter for unread messages and other unnoticed actions. It unfolds into a list of unread messages and other unnoticed actions. From there, I can get directly to that post. I will notice it. And I'll usually be able to help.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Hashtag #Hashtags #HashtagMeta #CWHashtagMeta #Relay #Relays

@🌴 Seph 💭 👾 That's one nice thing about Hubzilla: You can customise the UI apart from theming. You can completely change the layout. (Not sure if you can do that with Saiwal's themes, but you can with Redbasic.)

By default, a new channel has barely got any icons in the navbar and not even that many in the app menu. The right-hand end of the navbar of a new channel only contains icons for search, HQ, help and the app menu. You can configure under Apps which icons shall appear where. Star them, and they're in the menu. Pin them, and they're on the navbar.

In fact, whereas (I think) Friendica has all its features on all the time, Hubzilla is very modular. Many of its features are optional and off by default; they're called "apps". If you don't need it, don't activate it, and you won't have UI elements for it.

Even the various pages can be rearranged in the PDL editor. You don't need something, throw it out. You only need one sidebar, choose a layout with only one sidebar instead of both. You can do without any sidebars, pick a layout without sidebars.

Saiwal's theme previews have to show what can be done with them. Hence, a lot of UI elements are in place that either can be configured away or have to be configured into place in the first place.

For example, if you look at the AdminLTE preview: You only have to pin the apps that you need all the time. If you want to, you can unpin them all, and they're gone. But then you'll have to go via the Featured Apps menu to get to them. You can slim that down as well, but then you have to open the Apps page to get to them.

The entire wide dark navigation bar on the left can be folded in if you don't need it. Fold it out when you need it.

Main Navigation looks like a homebrew element that doesn't necessarily have to be default. The Archives field can be configured away or has to be configured into place.

The buttons below the posts can't be reduced that much. The speech bubble unfolds the comments. Then come thumb up and (optional, off-by-default) thumb down. Next comes repeat (= share on Friendica). The smiley is for replying with nothing but one emoticon; I think this is actually an optional feature, too.

Now, when I look at the Solidified preview: Almost every other button on the left-hand bar is for an app that isn't even activated by default. Most of the rest are for features that are available right away, but their buttons usually aren't.

Most of what's on the right was probably configured in for the showcase. Even if it's there by default, it can be removed.

The centre only seems cluttered because the posts are arranged across three columns instead of all in one. Even there you can choose how to arrange the posts.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #UtsuktaThemes #AdminLTE #Solidified #Hubzilla

@🌴 Seph 💭 👾 Have you taken a look at Hubzilla yet?

It was created by the same guy as Friendica, and it's a descendent of Friendica. (Forked to Free-Friendika, then forked to Red, both in 2011, then largely rewritten against a brand-new protocol in 2012, then renamed Red Matrix, then greatly expanded in features and renamed Hubzilla in 2015.)

One could say it's Friendica

• entirely running on its own protocol, Zot6
• with nomadic identity that makes it possible to clone your channel across multiple servers and making it resilient against server outage
• with multiple channel (identities, like complete Friendica accounts, but without separate logins) on one account/login, and you can switch between them without logging out and back in again (all with multiple profiles like on Friendica)
• without Bluesky integration
• with less pandering to Mastodon
• with an even better permissions system
• with full (client-side and server-side) OpenWebAuth support
• with polls
• with WebDAV access to your file space
• with a built-in CalDAV calendar server
• with an optional built-in CardDAV addressbook server
• with optional articles, planning cards, wikis and webpages
• with a very extensive, detailed and well-written built-in help system
• with the ability to integrate git repositories with 3rd-party add-ons and themes that can even be upgraded with shell scripts as easily as the whole hub
• with 3rd-party themes available that change the entire UI and UX instead of reskinning the existing UI, especially the Utsukta themes by @Saiwal

It does not provide any previews for links, though I'm sure something like this can be developed as a third-party addon.

If you want to try it, it's quite tricky to find a good hub with 3rd-party themes installed to start on. There aren't any in North America; don't go looking for them.

You may want to get in touch with @pepe about joining his Whoville hub. It's well-equipped, it's well-maintained, but keep in mind it's in Europe.

If you find Hubzilla to your liking, and you want to have your own hub hosted, there appear to be quite a few Hubzilla hosting services. Pick one you like, set up your own hub, activate the add-ons you need, install the third-party themes and add-ons you need, get it to run properly, and then clone your daily-driver production channel over from Whoville. Make the instance on your own hub the main one, and keep the one at Whoville as a clone in case your hoster is offline, or something else is wrong with your hub.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Friendica #Hubzilla

@🌴 Seph 💭 👾 Have you taken a look at Hubzilla yet?

It was created by the same guy as Friendica, and it's a descendent of Friendica. (Forked to Free-Friendika, then forked to Red, both in 2011, then largely rewritten against a brand-new protocol in 2012, then renamed Red Matrix, then greatly expanded in features and renamed Hubzilla in 2015.)

One could say it's Friendica

• entirely running on its own protocol, Zot6
• with nomadic identity that makes it possible to clone your channel across multiple servers and making it resilient against server outage
• with multiple channel (identities, like complete Friendica accounts, but without separate logins) on one account/login, and you can switch between them without logging out and back in again (all with multiple profiles like on Friendica)
• without Bluesky integration
• with less pandering to Mastodon
• with an even better permissions system
• with full (client-side and server-side) OpenWebAuth support
• with polls
• with WebDAV access to your file space
• with a built-in CalDAV calendar server
• with an optional built-in CardDAV addressbook server
• with optional articles, planning cards, wikis and webpages
• with a very extensive, detailed and well-written built-in help system
• with the ability to integrate git repositories with 3rd-party add-ons and themes that can even be upgraded with shell scripts as easily as the whole hub
• with 3rd-party themes available that change the entire UI and UX instead of reskinning the existing UI, especially the Utsukta themes by @Saiwal

It does not provide any previews for links, though I'm sure something like this can be developed as a third-party addon.

If you want to try it, it's quite tricky to find a good hub with 3rd-party themes installed to start on. There aren't any in North America; don't go looking for them.

You may want to get in touch with @pepe about joining his Whoville hub. It's well-equipped, it's well-maintained, but keep in mind it's in Europe.

If you find Hubzilla to your liking, and you want to have your own hub hosted, there appear to be quite a few Hubzilla hosting services. Pick one you like, set up your own hub, activate the add-ons you need, install the third-party themes and add-ons you need, get it to run properly, and then clone your daily-driver production channel over from Whoville. Make the instance on your own hub the main one, and keep the one at Whoville as a clone in case your hoster is offline, or something else is wrong with your hub.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Friendica #Hubzilla

@Mika When I read the Bonfire suggestion, I was about to suggest Hubzilla, the most powerful Fediverse server application.

In case you don't know it: It basically evolved in 2015 from a fork of a Friendica fork, and it was created by Friendica's inventor. It probably has one of the best user documentations in the Fediverse, but it also has quite a steep learning curve, and newly created channels require quite a bit of configuration before you can really use them.

The same guy still maintains two more recent members of the same software family, (streams) from 2021 and Forte from 2024. They aren't quite as blistering with features as Hubzilla (they lack all the CMS stuff: articles, cards, wikis, webpages), and they don't offer nearly as many connection options as Friendica and Hubzilla.

Although they're still somehow complex, and although they don't have much of a user documentation, I dare say they're easier to get into because they don't require quite as much undocumented initial configuration after creating a channel.

All three offer groups (Hubzilla calls them "forums"), but no subforums. Whereas Friendica groups can only be co-administered by someone on the same server, groups/forums on Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte can be co-administered by anyone on Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) or Forte.

However, there aren't any phone apps for them. They can be installed as progressive Web apps, though, and their Web UIs transform into mobile mode quite well AFAIK.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte

@Prof. Rachel Thorn 🍉🇺🇦🏳️‍⚧️🏳️ Just out of curiosity: Are there any good excuses for not having added an alt-text that you'd accept?

For example, when someone new to Hubzilla tells you that they neither know what alt-text is nor how to add it? Hubzilla doesn't have dedicated UI elements for adding alt-texts. Images are embedded into posts like in blog posts rather than attached as files like on Mastodon. Alt-texts have to be manually woven into the image-embedding phpBB code, and the newbie might not know that this is explained in Hubzilla's built-in help, or it's simply too tedious to "program" an alt-text in.

Or when a Hubzilla veteran of over ten years tells you that Hubzilla has no way whatsoever to add an alt-text to a video? Like images, videos are embedded into posts. But the video-embedding code has no option for an alt-text. Granted, if it's a video, I'd rather expect or supply a full, time-coded transcript in the message text. But maybe what's expected is both a full, time-coded transcript and an alt-text that's sufficiently detailed by Mastodon's standards.

If neither of these are acceptable to you, there's something else you should know: Hubzilla does not support Mastodon's report feature either because that's a non-standard, homegrown Mastodon feature, and Hubzilla is not built against Mastodon. So if you report someone to their Hubzilla admin, the admin simply will never receive your report.

This is likely to lead Mastodon users into believing that either the server on the other end is unmoderated (which, in Hubzilla's case and by Mastodon's standards, is technically true because Hubzilla is all about self-moderation), or the admin doesn't care, both of which, by Mastodon's standards, is reason enough to have the server Fediblocked.

Again, I'm just being curious and cautious. You should not believe that I'm trying to weasel myself out of having to describe images.

After all, I'm working on an extensive wiki about image descriptions and alt-texts in the Fediverse with 50+ pages with dozens of webpages and blog posts on how to describe images. I'm using the same knowledge that I'm pouring into the wiki, the same rules and guidelines that already have or will have wiki pages, to describe my own images, even though some of them collide with each other and with Mastodon's image description preferences and quality standards. I don't think anyone else in the Fediverse is taking describing images more seriously.

I rarely post images anymore due to the effort involved. But whenever I do, I take all the effort that's needed to both describe and explain them, taking into consideration the context, Mastodon's culture and preferences regarding alt-texts and image descriptions, the potential target audience and what knowledge they may or may not have about what's in the image. I've declared all my existing image descriptions outdated, also because it'd be too tedious to go and upgrade them all whenever I learn something new about describing images. (Don't go looking for my most recent images on this channel; I post my images elsewhere now because Hubzilla can't make Mastodon blur sensitive images.)

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Mastodon #Hubzilla #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta

@silverpill Mastodon implements something that's already implemented in Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte. Incredible.

#FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Mastodon #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #FEP_8b32

@/dev/urandom This would actually be quite counter-productive if it was hard-coded, especially on Mastodon.

See, the Fediverse can create content that Mastodon can't even properly display. Or rather, stubbornly refuses to display because of its self-imposed limitations.

Commercial news platforms like Ghost and Flipboard, specialised long-form blogging applications like WordPress, WriteFreely and Plume, the "Facebook-style social networking" side in the shape of Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte, they can all send messages into the Fediverse that make use of all formatting tricks in the HTML book and then some. But if Mastodon, with whichever frontend, were to display them, it would often completely and utterly deface them.

Mastodon has no support for titles, at least not in messages which it actually displays. It pretends they don't exist.

Mastodon has no support for ordered lists with numbers or letters. It changes them into bullet-point lists.

Mastodon has no support for tables, for horizontal rules, for text colours, for text sizes except in headlines etc. It "sanitises" them into plain, unformatted text entirely.

Most importantly, Mastodon has no support for embedded images and for more than four images in one message.

For example, let's assume someone writes a beautiful travel blog post on WordPress with the ActivityPub add-on activated. The post has ten images embedded between paragraphs with the paragraphs referencing the images.

If Mastodon tried to render this blog post, it would rip all images out of the text where they should be embedded. If you're lucky, it would hang four of these images up underneath the post and silently discard the other six so you'll never know they exist. If you're unlucky, Mastodon would silently discard all ten images.

This, by the way, is the very reason that it's good that Mastodon usually "displays" such posts with their title, their summary and a link to the original that'll open at its source in your Web browser. It'll allow you to see the post as it was intended by the author. Mastodon itself won't.

At the very least, the links in such Mastodon-generated "previews" must continue to lead to their sources and open in a Web browser. The very reason why these "previews" exist is so that Mastodon can keep clinging to its purist microblogging principles while at the same time not defacing the posts which are "previewed" with links.

Also, there must always remain the option to look at messages at their source, and be it stashed away in a menu.

If you want all of this to disappear just so that phone users are spared from their browsers ever popping up whenever they tap something in their Mastodon apps, then you'll deprive the Mastodon users of any way of seeing anything in the Fediverse without Mastodon's limitations.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #Flipboard #Ghost #WordPress #WriteFreely #Plume #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #TextFormatting #RichText

@knack

I'd hope, if this happens, that the 'verse can keep 20+ distinct collectives going.

20+++.

Mastodon-centric Mastodon mods will never be able to take moderative control over Hubzilla, (streams) or Forte servers. The admins won't let them. Especially (streams) and Forte admins even have counter-measures.

CC: @:PUA: Shlee booped around &

#FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Moderation

@:PUA: Shlee booped around & This can't work, and for one particular reason. And you should actually know this reason after eight years in the Fediverse:

The Fediverse is not only Mastodon. It's far from being only Mastodon.

It isn't 10,000 servers running one application. It's 40,000+ servers running over 150 different applications. And I'm not talking about Mastodon and otherwise Mastodon forks either.

From your words, I can clearly see that you want the whole Fediverse to be moderated by Mastodon standards.

But then you have Mastodon mods who are "based and Mastodon-pilled", and for whom the Fediverse either is or shall be only Mastodon. These mods moderate Friendica or Hubzilla or (streams) or Forte servers by Mastodon's standards. Which, by the way, not only clash with the culture on these servers, but even with the technology on these servers. Friendica works a whole lot differently from Mastodon; Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte even more so.

Oh, and especially Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte don't even have the concept of moderators. I'm absolutely serious here. They don't have Mastodon's concept of reports. Why not? Because they're geared towards self-moderation. Everyone is given the power to moderate their own channels. Unimaginable on Mastodon, also because this involves technologies and features that are unimaginable on Mastodon such as the most advanced permissions systems in the whole Fediverse. Mastodon's culture is about being pampered and coddled. The culture on these three is about self-defence.

Also: You can't force Mastodon-style Mastodon moderation upon a (streams) server. You can try. But you won't succeed. The server admin won't let you. Again, I'm dead-serious here.

Unlike on Mastodon, a (streams) admin has various counter-measures available to get rid of your Mastodon mod.

• They could activate the User Agent Filter and add "mastodon" to the filter list. Bam, all of Mastodon blocked, all present and future servers, in-bound and out-bound.
• They could activate FedUp which blocks everything that doesn't support enclosed threaded conversations, and Mastodon doesn't, so Mastodon is blocked, too.
• If everything else fails, they could turn ActivityPub support off for the whole server, thus cutting everything off that isn't (streams) or Hubzilla. (This, by the way, is even available to individual users.)

Stuff like this, by the way, Mastodon forcing its culture upon the non-Mastodon Fediverse, is the very reason why (streams) and Forte have built-in ways to defend themselves against Mastodon. And this is one reason why Hubzilla sticks to ActivityPub being optional on each channel.

Back to the Mastodon mods. They'll probably only know Mastodon. More importantly, they probably won't know anything about groups. They'll probably think the Fediverse doesn't even have groups. They'll only know users following other users.

And then they'll have to moderate on Lemmy. They'll have to moderate a group. Something they didn't even expect to exist. In a place where users can't follow other users, only subscribe to groups, because it's essentially a Reddit clone.

Worse yet, they'll have to moderate a Lemmy community with 10,000 members. All of whom are former Redditors. All of whom live by a culture that's directly derived from Reddit with no influence from Twitter or Mastodon at all. None of whom have ever been on Twitter or Mastodon. Almost none of whom even know that Mastodon exists. And many of whom have their experiences with power-tripping Lemmy moderators, so if you think they're easy to rein in with a culture that isn't theirs, you're very wrong.

(Greetings from Hubzilla.)

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #Mastodon #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Lemmy #Groups #FediGroups #FediverseGroups #Moderation #MastodonCulture #MastodonCentricity #MastodonNormativity