#cwfedimeta — Public Fediverse posts

@sb  the chippy-choppy There won't be many left. Depending on how staunchly and extremely anti-AI you and (aspiring) server admins are, there won't be any left. Because it's technically impossible to set up a Fediverse server with absolutely no AI code underneath whatsoever.

The Linux mainline kernel itself contains AI code now. It's officially allowed as long as it's disclosed as such. Thus, you will have to avoid literally all servers running on Linux.

https://docs.kernel.org/process/coding-assistants.html

https://www.neowin.net/news/linus-torvalds-declares-massive-ai-fueled-code-surges-as-the-new-normal-for-linux/

NetBSD has very strict rules regarding AI-generated code. But it doesn't rule AI-generated code out out of principle because it's AI-generated; it only wants to be safe that nothing that's actually GPL-licensed is slipped in. So, if you're an 100%, ultra-hardcode anti-AI extremist, avoid what few servers run on NetBSD.

https://www.netbsd.org/developers/commit-guidelines.html

OpenBSD contains AI-generated code, too. And it has no official stance regarding it. So servers running on OpenBSD are taboo, too.

https://www.osnews.com/story/144935/openbsd-and-slopcode-raindrop-to-a-torrent/

FreeBSD has no stance on AI whatsoever that I could find. However, apparently, the FreeBSD community loves to integrate Claude Code into their systems for automation purposes:

https://aumont.fr/posts/claude-code-freebsd/

https://discoverbsd.com/p/8a7660c31b

But you'll also have to look at the userland, the Web server, the database driver etc.

MariaDB allows AI code. You can safely assume that all MySQL databases on Web servers out there are actually powered by MariaDB.

https://mariadb.org/governance/governance-ai-policy/

Oracle MySQL can integrate AI, so it's safe to assume it contains AI-generated code.

https://blogs.oracle.com/mysql/announcing-mysql-ai

PostgreSQL probably allows AI code, too. There are even tools for it.

https://github.com/timescale/pg-aiguide

SQLite is very popular amongst AI users while not having any rules on AI-generated code. Assume it to be tainted.

This leaves you with only one choice: Self-hosting a personal, single-user snac2 server because snac2 doesn't need any database whatsoever. In fact, snac2 is staunchly against AI. And it runs on NetBSD.

https://codeberg.org/grunfink/snac2

But then there's the Web server. Apache may allow AI-generated code if it has been reviewed and made sure that it does not contain anything that's incompatible with the Apache-2.0 license.

https://www.apache.org/legal/generative-tooling.html

nginx welcomes AI and advertises itself as ready for AI, and it takes no anti-AI-code stance. It's most likely already tainted.

https://www.f5.com/de_de/products/nginx.

This basically leaves you with no Web server guaranteed to be 100% free from AI-generated code to run snac2 on. But that doesn't matter because it's impossible to build a Web server devoid of any AI code to install snac2 on.

By the way: Mastodon itself explicitly allows AI code if it's disclosed as such, and if its contributor understands it.

https://github.com/mastodon/.github/blob/main/AI_POLICY.md

In other words, next to all Mastodon servers are running

• AI-generated Mastodon code
• on an AI-generated Web server
• with an AI-generated database driver
• on an AI-generated operating system kernel

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Linux #FreeBSD #OpenBSD #NetBSD #Apache #nginx #MySQL #MariaDB #PostgreSQL #SQLite #Mastodon #snac2 #AI #LLM #LLMs #GenAI #NoAI #AntiAI #AntiLLM

@sb  the chippy-choppy There won't be many left. Depending on how staunchly and extremely anti-AI you and (aspiring) server admins are, there won't be any left. Because it's technically impossible to set up a Fediverse server with absolutely no AI code underneath whatsoever.

The Linux mainline kernel itself contains AI code now. It's officially allowed as long as it's disclosed as such. Thus, you will have to avoid literally all servers running on Linux.

https://docs.kernel.org/process/coding-assistants.html

https://www.neowin.net/news/linus-torvalds-declares-massive-ai-fueled-code-surges-as-the-new-normal-for-linux/

NetBSD has very strict rules regarding AI-generated code. But it doesn't rule AI-generated code out out of principle because it's AI-generated; it only wants to be safe that nothing that's actually GPL-licensed is slipped in. So, if you're an 100%, ultra-hardcode anti-AI extremist, avoid what few servers run on NetBSD.

https://www.netbsd.org/developers/commit-guidelines.html

OpenBSD contains AI-generated code, too. And it has no official stance regarding it. So servers running on OpenBSD are taboo, too.

https://www.osnews.com/story/144935/openbsd-and-slopcode-raindrop-to-a-torrent/

FreeBSD has no stance on AI whatsoever that I could find. However, apparently, the FreeBSD community loves to integrate Claude Code into their systems for automation purposes:

https://aumont.fr/posts/claude-code-freebsd/

https://discoverbsd.com/p/8a7660c31b

But you'll also have to look at the userland, the Web server, the database driver etc.

MariaDB allows AI code. You can safely assume that all MySQL databases on Web servers out there are actually powered by MariaDB.

https://mariadb.org/governance/governance-ai-policy/

Oracle MySQL can integrate AI, so it's safe to assume it contains AI-generated code.

https://blogs.oracle.com/mysql/announcing-mysql-ai

PostgreSQL probably allows AI code, too. There are even tools for it.

https://github.com/timescale/pg-aiguide

SQLite is very popular amongst AI users while not having any rules on AI-generated code. Assume it to be tainted.

This leaves you with only one choice: Self-hosting a personal, single-user snac2 server because snac2 doesn't need any database whatsoever. In fact, snac2 is staunchly against AI. And it runs on NetBSD.

https://codeberg.org/grunfink/snac2

But then there's the Web server. Apache may allow AI-generated code if it has been reviewed and made sure that it does not contain anything that's incompatible with the Apache-2.0 license.

https://www.apache.org/legal/generative-tooling.html

nginx welcomes AI and advertises itself as ready for AI, and it takes no anti-AI-code stance. It's most likely already tainted.

https://www.f5.com/de_de/products/nginx.

This basically leaves you with no Web server guaranteed to be 100% free from AI-generated code to run snac2 on. But that doesn't matter because it's impossible to build a Web server devoid of any AI code to install snac2 on.

By the way: Mastodon itself explicitly allows AI code if it's disclosed as such, and if its contributor understands it.

https://github.com/mastodon/.github/blob/main/AI_POLICY.md

In other words, next to all Mastodon servers are running

• AI-generated Mastodon code
• on an AI-generated Web server
• with an AI-generated database driver
• on an AI-generated operating system kernel

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Linux #FreeBSD #OpenBSD #NetBSD #Apache #nginx #MySQL #MariaDB #PostgreSQL #SQLite #Mastodon #snac2 #AI #LLM #LLMs #GenAI #NoAI #AntiAI #AntiLLM

@sb  the chippy-choppy There won't be many left. Depending on how staunchly and extremely anti-AI you and (aspiring) server admins are, there won't be any left. Because it's technically impossible to set up a Fediverse server with absolutely no AI code underneath whatsoever.

The Linux mainline kernel itself contains AI code now. It's officially allowed as long as it's disclosed as such. Thus, you will have to avoid literally all servers running on Linux.

https://docs.kernel.org/process/coding-assistants.html

https://www.neowin.net/news/linus-torvalds-declares-massive-ai-fueled-code-surges-as-the-new-normal-for-linux/

NetBSD has very strict rules regarding AI-generated code. But it doesn't rule AI-generated code out out of principle because it's AI-generated; it only wants to be safe that nothing that's actually GPL-licensed is slipped in. So, if you're an 100%, ultra-hardcode anti-AI extremist, avoid what few servers run on NetBSD.

https://www.netbsd.org/developers/commit-guidelines.html

OpenBSD contains AI-generated code, too. And it has no official stance regarding it. So servers running on OpenBSD are taboo, too.

https://www.osnews.com/story/144935/openbsd-and-slopcode-raindrop-to-a-torrent/

FreeBSD has no stance on AI whatsoever that I could find. However, apparently, the FreeBSD community loves to integrate Claude Code into their systems for automation purposes:

https://aumont.fr/posts/claude-code-freebsd/

https://discoverbsd.com/p/8a7660c31b

But you'll also have to look at the userland, the Web server, the database driver etc.

MariaDB allows AI code. You can safely assume that all MySQL databases on Web servers out there are actually powered by MariaDB.

https://mariadb.org/governance/governance-ai-policy/

Oracle MySQL can integrate AI, so it's safe to assume it contains AI-generated code.

https://blogs.oracle.com/mysql/announcing-mysql-ai

PostgreSQL probably allows AI code, too. There are even tools for it.

https://github.com/timescale/pg-aiguide

SQLite is very popular amongst AI users while not having any rules on AI-generated code. Assume it to be tainted.

This leaves you with only one choice: Self-hosting a personal, single-user snac2 server because snac2 doesn't need any database whatsoever. In fact, snac2 is staunchly against AI. And it runs on NetBSD.

https://codeberg.org/grunfink/snac2

But then there's the Web server. Apache may allow AI-generated code if it has been reviewed and made sure that it does not contain anything that's incompatible with the Apache-2.0 license.

https://www.apache.org/legal/generative-tooling.html

nginx welcomes AI and advertises itself as ready for AI, and it takes no anti-AI-code stance. It's most likely already tainted.

https://www.f5.com/de_de/products/nginx.

This basically leaves you with no Web server guaranteed to be 100% free from AI-generated code to run snac2 on. But that doesn't matter because it's impossible to build a Web server devoid of any AI code to install snac2 on.

By the way: Mastodon itself explicitly allows AI code if it's disclosed as such, and if its contributor understands it.

https://github.com/mastodon/.github/blob/main/AI_POLICY.md

In other words, next to all Mastodon servers are running

• AI-generated Mastodon code
• on an AI-generated Web server
• with an AI-generated database driver
• on an AI-generated operating system kernel

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Linux #FreeBSD #OpenBSD #NetBSD #Apache #nginx #MySQL #MariaDB #PostgreSQL #SQLite #Mastodon #snac2 #AI #LLM #LLMs #GenAI #NoAI #AntiAI #AntiLLM

@sb  the chippy-choppy There won't be many left. Depending on how staunchly and extremely anti-AI you and (aspiring) server admins are, there won't be any left. Because it's technically impossible to set up a Fediverse server with absolutely no AI code underneath whatsoever.

The Linux mainline kernel itself contains AI code now. It's officially allowed as long as it's disclosed as such. Thus, you will have to avoid literally all servers running on Linux.

https://docs.kernel.org/process/coding-assistants.html

https://www.neowin.net/news/linus-torvalds-declares-massive-ai-fueled-code-surges-as-the-new-normal-for-linux/

NetBSD has very strict rules regarding AI-generated code. But it doesn't rule AI-generated code out out of principle because it's AI-generated; it only wants to be safe that nothing that's actually GPL-licensed is slipped in. So, if you're an 100%, ultra-hardcode anti-AI extremist, avoid what few servers run on NetBSD.

https://www.netbsd.org/developers/commit-guidelines.html

OpenBSD contains AI-generated code, too. And it has no official stance regarding it. So servers running on OpenBSD are taboo, too.

https://www.osnews.com/story/144935/openbsd-and-slopcode-raindrop-to-a-torrent/

FreeBSD has no stance on AI whatsoever that I could find. However, apparently, the FreeBSD community loves to integrate Claude Code into their systems for automation purposes:

https://aumont.fr/posts/claude-code-freebsd/

https://discoverbsd.com/p/8a7660c31b

But you'll also have to look at the userland, the Web server, the database driver etc.

MariaDB allows AI code. You can safely assume that all MySQL databases on Web servers out there are actually powered by MariaDB.

https://mariadb.org/governance/governance-ai-policy/

Oracle MySQL can integrate AI, so it's safe to assume it contains AI-generated code.

https://blogs.oracle.com/mysql/announcing-mysql-ai

PostgreSQL probably allows AI code, too. There are even tools for it.

https://github.com/timescale/pg-aiguide

SQLite is very popular amongst AI users while not having any rules on AI-generated code. Assume it to be tainted.

This leaves you with only one choice: Self-hosting a personal, single-user snac2 server because snac2 doesn't need any database whatsoever. In fact, snac2 is staunchly against AI. And it runs on NetBSD.

https://codeberg.org/grunfink/snac2

But then there's the Web server. Apache may allow AI-generated code if it has been reviewed and made sure that it does not contain anything that's incompatible with the Apache-2.0 license.

https://www.apache.org/legal/generative-tooling.html

nginx welcomes AI and advertises itself as ready for AI, and it takes no anti-AI-code stance. It's most likely already tainted.

https://www.f5.com/de_de/products/nginx.

This basically leaves you with no Web server guaranteed to be 100% free from AI-generated code to run snac2 on. But that doesn't matter because it's impossible to build a Web server devoid of any AI code to install snac2 on.

By the way: Mastodon itself explicitly allows AI code if it's disclosed as such, and if its contributor understands it.

https://github.com/mastodon/.github/blob/main/AI_POLICY.md

In other words, next to all Mastodon servers are running

• AI-generated Mastodon code
• on an AI-generated Web server
• with an AI-generated database driver
• on an AI-generated operating system kernel

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Linux #FreeBSD #OpenBSD #NetBSD #Apache #nginx #MySQL #MariaDB #PostgreSQL #SQLite #Mastodon #snac2 #AI #LLM #LLMs #GenAI #NoAI #AntiAI #AntiLLM

@sb  the chippy-choppy There won't be many left. Depending on how staunchly and extremely anti-AI you and (aspiring) server admins are, there won't be any left. Because it's technically impossible to set up a Fediverse server with absolutely no AI code underneath whatsoever.

The Linux mainline kernel itself contains AI code now. It's officially allowed as long as it's disclosed as such. Thus, you will have to avoid literally all servers running on Linux.

https://docs.kernel.org/process/coding-assistants.html

https://www.neowin.net/news/linus-torvalds-declares-massive-ai-fueled-code-surges-as-the-new-normal-for-linux/

NetBSD has very strict rules regarding AI-generated code. But it doesn't rule AI-generated code out out of principle because it's AI-generated; it only wants to be safe that nothing that's actually GPL-licensed is slipped in. So, if you're an 100%, ultra-hardcode anti-AI extremist, avoid what few servers run on NetBSD.

https://www.netbsd.org/developers/commit-guidelines.html

OpenBSD contains AI-generated code, too. And it has no official stance regarding it. So servers running on OpenBSD are taboo, too.

https://www.osnews.com/story/144935/openbsd-and-slopcode-raindrop-to-a-torrent/

FreeBSD has no stance on AI whatsoever that I could find. However, apparently, the FreeBSD community loves to integrate Claude Code into their systems for automation purposes:

https://aumont.fr/posts/claude-code-freebsd/

https://discoverbsd.com/p/8a7660c31b

But you'll also have to look at the userland, the Web server, the database driver etc.

MariaDB allows AI code. You can safely assume that all MySQL databases on Web servers out there are actually powered by MariaDB.

https://mariadb.org/governance/governance-ai-policy/

Oracle MySQL can integrate AI, so it's safe to assume it contains AI-generated code.

https://blogs.oracle.com/mysql/announcing-mysql-ai

PostgreSQL probably allows AI code, too. There are even tools for it.

https://github.com/timescale/pg-aiguide

SQLite is very popular amongst AI users while not having any rules on AI-generated code. Assume it to be tainted.

This leaves you with only one choice: Self-hosting a personal, single-user snac2 server because snac2 doesn't need any database whatsoever. In fact, snac2 is staunchly against AI. And it runs on NetBSD.

https://codeberg.org/grunfink/snac2

But then there's the Web server. Apache may allow AI-generated code if it has been reviewed and made sure that it does not contain anything that's incompatible with the Apache-2.0 license.

https://www.apache.org/legal/generative-tooling.html

nginx welcomes AI and advertises itself as ready for AI, and it takes no anti-AI-code stance. It's most likely already tainted.

https://www.f5.com/de_de/products/nginx.

This basically leaves you with no Web server guaranteed to be 100% free from AI-generated code to run snac2 on. But that doesn't matter because it's impossible to build a Web server devoid of any AI code to install snac2 on.

By the way: Mastodon itself explicitly allows AI code if it's disclosed as such, and if its contributor understands it.

https://github.com/mastodon/.github/blob/main/AI_POLICY.md

In other words, next to all Mastodon servers are running

• AI-generated Mastodon code
• on an AI-generated Web server
• with an AI-generated database driver
• on an AI-generated operating system kernel

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Linux #FreeBSD #OpenBSD #NetBSD #Apache #nginx #MySQL #MariaDB #PostgreSQL #SQLite #Mastodon #snac2 #AI #LLM #LLMs #GenAI #NoAI #AntiAI #AntiLLM

@happyborg

People can follow hashtags

People on Mastodon can follow hashtags. But just because people on Mastodon can, doesn't mean people everywhere else in the Fediverse can, too.

AFAIK, some of the minimalist microblogging server applications designed for self-hosting don't offer this feature. I'm not sure if Pleroma and Akkoma have it.

Hubzilla, which is what I'm commenting from, definitely doesn't have this feature. And Hubzilla is anything but minimalist. It's the most powerful and versatile of all Fediverse server applications.

Also, if you can follow hashtags, you can only follow hashtags on your home server. But if you're on a small server, hardly any messages with these hashtags wash up there in the first place. You'll miss a lot. If you're on a private, single-user server, following hashtags is completely useless because the only messages with these hashtags that reach the server are those that you receive from your own contacts anyway.

(streams) and Forte, both being streamlined and more advanced Hubzilla descendants, can follow hashtags. But there simply aren't any big (streams) or Forte servers, especially not with lots of traffic from Mastodon. Most of the few (streams) and Forte users run their own single-user servers.

This is also why it doesn't matter much whether snac or GoToSocial users can follow hashtags: These two are almost exclusively used as private, single-user servers because that's what they're designed for first and foremost.

To make it short: Most Fediverse users outside the big Mastodon servers can only follow hashtags by relying on "bots" that forward posts with these hashtags which they find on e.g. mastodon.social.

In fact, this is good for Mastodon users as well. It helps circumvent two of Mastodon's disadvantages.

One is that it has no support for groups whatsoever (the Fediverse does have groups in case you don't know). If Mastodon users need to talk about a certain topic, they can't do so in a group about that topic. All they can do is shout into the ether with certain hashtags and hope that the right person catches their toot.

The other one is that this is highly unlikely on Mastodon itself. On Mastodon, most content remains unseen.

Mastodon doesn't offer a list of unread messages in the timeline, not even a counter. All that Mastodon users can do is scroll down their timeline until they either hit content that they've already seen, or until they've got no more time, or until they want no more. Anything below will remain unseen. It's sad that this counts as the default or even without alternatives in the Fediverse. And most Mastodon users follow so many accounts and channels (plus hashtags occasionally) that they can impossibly read all the messages they receive.

Let's suppose a Mastodon user wants to talk about Hubzilla for some reason. I've seen this happen often enough. The only chance they have, not knowing that the @hubzilla exists, much less that they can join it from Mastodon, is by tooting into the void with the hashtag #Hubzilla and hoping that either one of their followers or someone somewhere out there on their followers' servers follows the hashtag #Hubzilla.

But none of their followers comes online soon enough to scroll down to their toot. They all have tons of other content in their timelines above that toot, so they never scroll all the way down to it. If not, they simply don't know what Hubzilla is. And even if any Mastodon users follow the hashtag #Hubzilla (which I doubt), this still doesn't mean that one of them scrolls all the way down to that toot.

And then there's me. As I've already said, I'm on Hubzilla. I can't follow hashtags directly. Instead, I "follow" the hashtag #Hubzilla by having this hashtag on the FediBuzz relay (https://relay.fedi.buzz/) as a contact. Or, in Mastodon terms, by following it. FediBuzz is not a bot server. It's a relay that server admins can connect their servers to to have more public content on their servers (if their server software supports relays, that is). Something completely normal on Mastodon, especially on small servers.

So when someone on Mastodon toots something with #Hubzilla, I receive it as a new post. But I don't have to scroll down a timeline of unknown length to find it. I have a counter for unread messages and other unnoticed actions. It unfolds into a list of unread messages and other unnoticed actions. From there, I can get directly to that post. I will notice it. And I'll usually be able to help.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Hashtag #Hashtags #HashtagMeta #CWHashtagMeta #Relay #Relays

@Alexander Goeres 𒀯 @everton137 Whether they've adopted Mastodon's culture. And whether they follow all of Mastodon's largely unwritten rules to a tee.

Regardless of whether or not they're actually on Mastodon after all.

#FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #MastodonCulture #MastodonHOA #MastodonCentricity #MastodonNormativity

@silverpill @🫧 Social coding commons @Rimu @elle And this has to say something.

After all, Mastodon is far from a by-the-book implementation. Mastodon's ActivityPub implementation is influenced by two things. One, the legacy compatibility decisions from a time when Mastodon had two base protocols, OStatus and ActivityPub, and it had to make ActivityPub work like OStatus. Two, Mastodon's willingness to combat the Fediverse and eventually EEE it rather than embracing it.

Let me put it this way: At least for the longest time, Mastodon has tried hard to be incompatible with large parts of the Fediverse, at least with those parts that don't appear like add-ons to Mastodon (like PeerTube or Pixelfed).

And it has reached its goal: Almost all of those on Mastodon who do know that the Fediverse is more than Mastodon think that Mastodon still is the reference implementation of ActivityPub, and everything that doesn't work exactly like Mastodon, or that causes friction when interacting with Mastodon, is broken. That's one way to get rid of competition: Make it look bad to your own users.

Entire features, some of which are backed by FEPs, are bad from a Mastodon point of view. For example, enclosed threaded conversations with one post and otherwise comments, as can be found all over the Fediverse from Friendica and its descendants to the whole Threadiverse, are bad because they're so different from Mastodon's threads loosely tied together from toots and more toots. And there's an FEP for them: FEP-171b "Conversation Containers".

This has gotten so bad especially since the big Twitter exodus from 2022 that developers no longer implement ActivityPub; to quote a diaspora* developer, they "implement Mastodon". They build their stuff hard against Mastodon with little to no regards for actual ActivityPub and with little to no regards for the rest of the Fediverse.

Even Mike Macgirvin, formerly the staunchest Mastodon critic under the sun, has given in. He has added a per-post switch to (streams) and Forte which lets you choose between starting an enclosed conversation as per FEP-171b that Mastodon doesn't properly understand and starting a Mastodon-style loose thread that Mastodon understands.

I mean, what kind of "decentralised" Fediverse is it if the W3C is powerless, if the SWICG is effectively powerless, if the other devs are powerless, too, because it's Gargron and his Mastodon developers who are the one and only authority that defines how the Fediverse has to be built? And when Mastodon decides to re-invent the wheel once more, the whole rest of the Fediverse has to throw away its existing wheels and implement Mastodon's not even necessarily better wheels?

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #ActivityPub #Mastodon #MastodonCentricity #MastodonNormativity

@silverpill @🫧 Social coding commons @Rimu @elle I guess I can accurately estimate on which side Mastodon is standing. Even though Mastodon can be considered "real ActivityPub" and "implemented".

#FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Mastodon #ActivityPub

@Mark Wyner Won’t Comply :vm: First of all, you completely forgot the social media posters. The TOC link leads nowhere.

Also, maybe it's fair to mention that I'm working on an entire wiki about alt-texts and image descriptions, especially for the Fediverse. 46 pages are planned as of now, 24 of them are already written. These will include over 30 pages on how to do things, how not to do things and what never to do at all.

I won't add step-by-step guides for certain frontends. But I've already started adding rules and guidelines for how to describe images appropriately and write alt-texts in a way that won't break stuff anywhere.

Even if it's a very incomplete WIP, it's unique in several ways:

• It's the only wiki about alt-texts and image descriptions. Few writers have even only written multiple pages or articles on this subject.
• It's the only guide that takes the existence of the Fediverse outside of Mastodon into consideration. This means that it's also the only guide that doesn't assume that Fediverse equals always having only 500 characters for the message text. It actually recommends an additional, longer image description in the message text in certain situations, regardless of whether or not vanilla Mastodon users can do that.
• It's the only guide that, instead of regurgitating the alt-text rules for webpages and blogs and assuming that they apply to the Fediverse just the same, talks about the peculiarities of posting images into the Fediverse, how Mastodon's alt-text quality criteria are different from the W3C WAI and WCAG alt-text quality criteria, and why it's critically important to know and fulfill Mastodon's requirements for good alt-texts.
• It's probably the only guide that doesn't assume that you can always precisely target a certain audience for your content and make sure that only those receive it who understand it right off the bat.
• It is the only guide that lists over 60 references, including your blog post, but also including university webpages as well as over two dozen guides from Veronica Lewis a.k.a. Veronica with Four Eyes.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta

@Hirad @Mehrad :kde: :emacs: :rstats: Which is curious, seeing as the GNU FM developer also started GNU social and scooped up StatusNet's abandoned code to merge it into GNU social. The idea was to use GNU social in some way to make GNU FM federate.

GNU social even implemented ActivityPub at some point, but GNU FM never did. Now GNU social is dead anyway.

#FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #GNUFM #GNUsocial

@🌴 Seph 💭 👾 That's one nice thing about Hubzilla: You can customise the UI apart from theming. You can completely change the layout. (Not sure if you can do that with Saiwal's themes, but you can with Redbasic.)

By default, a new channel has barely got any icons in the navbar and not even that many in the app menu. The right-hand end of the navbar of a new channel only contains icons for search, HQ, help and the app menu. You can configure under Apps which icons shall appear where. Star them, and they're in the menu. Pin them, and they're on the navbar.

In fact, whereas (I think) Friendica has all its features on all the time, Hubzilla is very modular. Many of its features are optional and off by default; they're called "apps". If you don't need it, don't activate it, and you won't have UI elements for it.

Even the various pages can be rearranged in the PDL editor. You don't need something, throw it out. You only need one sidebar, choose a layout with only one sidebar instead of both. You can do without any sidebars, pick a layout without sidebars.

Saiwal's theme previews have to show what can be done with them. Hence, a lot of UI elements are in place that either can be configured away or have to be configured into place in the first place.

For example, if you look at the AdminLTE preview: You only have to pin the apps that you need all the time. If you want to, you can unpin them all, and they're gone. But then you'll have to go via the Featured Apps menu to get to them. You can slim that down as well, but then you have to open the Apps page to get to them.

The entire wide dark navigation bar on the left can be folded in if you don't need it. Fold it out when you need it.

Main Navigation looks like a homebrew element that doesn't necessarily have to be default. The Archives field can be configured away or has to be configured into place.

The buttons below the posts can't be reduced that much. The speech bubble unfolds the comments. Then come thumb up and (optional, off-by-default) thumb down. Next comes repeat (= share on Friendica). The smiley is for replying with nothing but one emoticon; I think this is actually an optional feature, too.

Now, when I look at the Solidified preview: Almost every other button on the left-hand bar is for an app that isn't even activated by default. Most of the rest are for features that are available right away, but their buttons usually aren't.

Most of what's on the right was probably configured in for the showcase. Even if it's there by default, it can be removed.

The centre only seems cluttered because the posts are arranged across three columns instead of all in one. Even there you can choose how to arrange the posts.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #UtsuktaThemes #AdminLTE #Solidified #Hubzilla

@🌴 Seph 💭 👾 Have you taken a look at Hubzilla yet?

It was created by the same guy as Friendica, and it's a descendent of Friendica. (Forked to Free-Friendika, then forked to Red, both in 2011, then largely rewritten against a brand-new protocol in 2012, then renamed Red Matrix, then greatly expanded in features and renamed Hubzilla in 2015.)

One could say it's Friendica

• entirely running on its own protocol, Zot6
• with nomadic identity that makes it possible to clone your channel across multiple servers and making it resilient against server outage
• with multiple channel (identities, like complete Friendica accounts, but without separate logins) on one account/login, and you can switch between them without logging out and back in again (all with multiple profiles like on Friendica)
• without Bluesky integration
• with less pandering to Mastodon
• with an even better permissions system
• with full (client-side and server-side) OpenWebAuth support
• with polls
• with WebDAV access to your file space
• with a built-in CalDAV calendar server
• with an optional built-in CardDAV addressbook server
• with optional articles, planning cards, wikis and webpages
• with a very extensive, detailed and well-written built-in help system
• with the ability to integrate git repositories with 3rd-party add-ons and themes that can even be upgraded with shell scripts as easily as the whole hub
• with 3rd-party themes available that change the entire UI and UX instead of reskinning the existing UI, especially the Utsukta themes by @Saiwal

It does not provide any previews for links, though I'm sure something like this can be developed as a third-party addon.

If you want to try it, it's quite tricky to find a good hub with 3rd-party themes installed to start on. There aren't any in North America; don't go looking for them.

You may want to get in touch with @pepe about joining his Whoville hub. It's well-equipped, it's well-maintained, but keep in mind it's in Europe.

If you find Hubzilla to your liking, and you want to have your own hub hosted, there appear to be quite a few Hubzilla hosting services. Pick one you like, set up your own hub, activate the add-ons you need, install the third-party themes and add-ons you need, get it to run properly, and then clone your daily-driver production channel over from Whoville. Make the instance on your own hub the main one, and keep the one at Whoville as a clone in case your hoster is offline, or something else is wrong with your hub.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Friendica #Hubzilla

@silverpill @Rimu @elle I could come up with a bunch of conspiracy theories for this behaviour.

Enforcement of Mastodon dominance.

A front against Mike Macgirvin, inventor of the most "disruptive" Fediverse software from a Mastodon point of view, as well as all his creations and inventions.

Forcing a grass-roots development under corporate control and eradicating the grass-roots part. Essentially "embrace-extend-extinguish", but trying desperately to speed-run the "embrace" and "extend" parts to cut to the "extinguish" part as quickly as possible.

The only way this could possibly fail is if Mastodon decided not to play along because more people consider Mastodon the ActivityPub reference implementation and Fediverse gold standard than not.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #ActivityPub

@silverpill @julian In addition, more particularly, it appeared highly unlikely that Mastodon would ever implement something first implemented in the "Anti-Mastodons". The Fediverse server applications that are the farthest from Mastodon while still largely being capable of the same things as Mastodon. Mastodon's nemeses, so-to-speak. The stuff created by the guy who speaks out the most radically against what Mastodon does.

#FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta

@Martin Rundkvist I've written an article with several feature comparison tables between

• Mastodon
• Friendica
• Hubzilla (rebuilt from a fork of a fork of Friendica by Friendica's creator)
• (streams) (fork of a fork of three forks of a fork (of a fork?) of Hubzilla by the same creator)
• Forte (fork of the streams repository by still the same creator

https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/0a75de76-eb27-4149-b708-f20b2f79d392

A few goodies:

• Mastodon:
  500 characters; requires source code modifications to get more
  Friendica:
  16,777,215 characters
• Friendica:
  Can render and create the full gamut of HTML text formatting
  Mastodon:
  Can only create plain text; can only render a small subset of HTML text formatting
• Friendica:
  Have as many images pro post as you want
  Embed them within the text
  Mastodon:
  Limited to 4 images
  Images can only be file attachments
• Friendica:
  Shows you all content in the Fediverse just like the author intended it
  Mastodon:
  "Sanitises" away half the formatting, all embedded images and all images except for the first four, just for the sake of purist microblogging
• Mastodon:
  Timeline consists of single messages with no context
  Friendica:
  Timeline consists of complete conversations, all the way back to the start post, with all branches (ignores and blocks notwithstanding)
• Mastodon:
  Conversations consist of toots and more toots, loosely strung together with mentions
  Replies only reach those who are visibly mentioned
  Friendica:
  Conversations consist of exactly one post and otherwise comments
  Replies go from the replier to the thread starter and from there to all participants in the conversation without having to mention anyone
• Friendica:
  Has groups built in (groups are accounts with special settings)
  Mastodon:
  Has no support for groups whatsoever, much less its own groups
  Most Mastodon users don't even know that the Fediverse has groups
• Friendica:
  Lets you federate with the whole Fediverse
  Lets you federate with diaspora*
  Lets you include and remote-control a Bluesky account
  At least used to be able to do the same with a Tumblr account or a Twitter account
  Lets you crosspost to Dreamwidth, Libertree, LiveJournal and XML-RPC-based blogs like WordPress
  Mastodon:
  Just barely so federates with the Fediverse
  Tries to make everything that isn't Mastodon look broken
  Would love for the Fediverse to be only Mastodon
• Mastodon:
  Makes the whole Fediverse look like Mastodon
  Friendica:
  Shows you which server software a message came from

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #CharacterLimit #CharacterLimits #CharacterLimitMeta #CWCharacterLimitMeta #Mastodon #Friendica

@silverpill Mastodon implements something that's already implemented in Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte. Incredible.

#FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Mastodon #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #FEP_8b32

@Jonathan Kamens 86 47 I don't want to alarm you, but:

Friendica (https://friendi.ca; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendica; https://joinfediverse.wiki/Friendica) has introduced full-text search to what would become the Fediverse as early as May, 2010.

Hubzilla (https://hubzilla.org; https://joinfediverse.wiki/Hubzilla) inherited this feature from Friendica. Hubzilla first came out in March, 2015.

For reference: Mastodon first came out in January, 2016. It immediately federated with Friendica and Hubzilla. In case you don't believe this: Take a look at my profile on its home server. Does that look like Mastodon?

The Fediverse has full-text search right now, and it has had full-text search for five years and eight months longer than Mastodon has even existed. This is the status quo.

If you want your content to be private, don't make it public in the first place.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #FullTextSearch #Privacy

@steve mookie kong ...which, unfortunately, would limit the features of the backend to what Mastodon itself can do. Because nothing else is implemented in the frontend.

No enclosed threaded conversations. Very limited HTML rendering. No formatting the text of your own messages. No emoji reactions. No images embedded in messages. No more than four images dangling below a message as file attachments.

If anything, someone who is not a Mastodon dev and not even daily-driving Mastodon should soft-fork Mastodon's Web UI and modify it so that it can adjust to the backend and offer all the features of the backend.

If you use it with snac2, you have the full set of snac2's features available.

If you use it with Akkoma, you have the full set of Akkoma's features available.

If you somehow manage to use it with Friendica, you have the full set of Friendica's features available.

Maybe there could be some options in the configuration that can (but don't by default) limit certain features to Mastodon's standard for those who really need the Mastodon UX with a non-Mastodon backend.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Mastodon #snac2 #Akkoma #Friendica #WebInterface

@Mark Andrew 🇨🇭 I guess that, more often than not, the only new developments that are widely welcome are those that happen on Mastodon, that still don't make Mastodon feel different, and that don't introduce features to Mastodon that are (considered) bad on 𝕏.

This alone is the reason why many Mastodon admins hold on to older Mastodon versions for their dear lives: They want to boycott new Mastodon features which they don't like, but they don't have what it takes to soft-fork or even only hard-fork Mastodon and remove the new features.

Now, when it comes to developments in the Fediverse outside of Mastodon, they tend to be even more nerve-grating for Mastodon users because they often aren't in line with Mastodon and its culture at all. That is, many Mastodon users don't even notice that these features exist unless these features directly hit their timeline. But once they do, they're considered bad new developments even though they've actually been around for much longer than Mastodon itself.

For example, quote-posts and full-text search. Mastodon users tend to be staunchly against both because they're used to harass and dogpile minorities on 𝕏. If at all, they're only okay with these if they come with an opt-in, and/or if server admins can turn them off entirely.

If only they knew that Friendica has had both since May, 2010, five years and eight months longer than Mastodon has even existed. That Friendica has been search-indexing and able to quote-post any public Mastodon toot since Mastodon's very launch. I guess they'd demand the immediate destruction of Friendica or at least its complete and permanent defederation.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares #QuotePostDebate #QuoteTootDebate #FullTextSearch #Mastodon #Friendica

@Leave X - Protect Democracy Tell that to those who are hostile even towards non-Mastodon Fediverse users because they don't act precisely like Mastodon users (or like Mastodon users are supposed to act), and because they refuse to adopt Mastodon's culture.

#FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #MastodonCulture #MastodonCentricity #MastodonNormativity

@Chao-c'

BTW I had account on identi.ca, which was StatusNet powered (I believe).

It was. At least until Evan and Erin could no longer justify it running on that janky OStatus protocol. The result was the ActivityPump protocol, the pump.io software and Identi.ca's switch to pump.io with all hands on board.

Yes, and it should not be implemented in Ruby or PHP or something like that. I have seen one online discussion forum being rewritten from PHP to Rust few years ago, and the improvement in responsiveness of the web platform was amazing. (I do C, not Rust, but C is too oldschool now, and the performance penalty of Rust is minor, probably not noticeable at all)

This reminds me of how the Fediverse is all over the place in terms of programming languages. Everyone has their own Holy Grail.

Friendica and its descendants are written in PHP. They may not be the fastest (even though what bogged down early Friendica were its heavyweight federation connectors to everywhere, especially the one for Facebook that came in 2011). Mike either discarded or rewrote these when he rewrote Red. But they happily run on a run-of-the-mill LAMP stack.

Mastodon is written in Ruby on Rails. Hubzilla runs circles around it in terms of performance per account/channel, and that has to say something. The only thing that managed to top this was early diaspora*, written in Ruby on Rails for Mac with MongoDB as the database system.

The *omas are built in Elixir. Granted, they're utter featherweights, especially considering their features. They're legendary for their low server impact. Then again, Pleroma apparently is spaghetti code straight from hell. Its own devs often don't have a clue where to go look for bugs, much less how to fix them. (Miraculously, the Akkoma devs do manage to get ride of quite a number of them.)

The *keys are built in TypeScript and Vue.js. I guess one reason why Misskey is infamous for having so many forks and forks of forks is because there are tons of people who can code in JavaScript, the primary mobile programming language.

Iceshrimp.NET is a still very incomplete "rewrite" of old Iceshrimp in C#. It was largely tackled to get rid of all those nasty bugs inherited from Misskey that even Misskey doesn't manage to get rid of. I've heard quite some outcry: Iceshrimp.NET is a sell-out to Microsoft. I guess whoever uttered that didn't go check who owns TypeScript.

PieFed is a dead giveaway: Python. And PieFed makes more headlines in the Threadiverse for server politics than for its underlying technology, except that Lemmy pales in comparison.

GoToSocial is a dead giveaway, too: Go. And it was one of the first Fediverse server applications to not come with a Web UI. Those who use it for a single-user server often don't even bother installing one and use some Mastodon app or other instead. Besides, why drag around a Web UI if there are much better third-party Web UIs than whatever you could whip up?

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Mastodon #Friendica #Hubzilla #Pleroma #Akkoma #Misskey #Forkey #Forkeys #Iceshrimp #IceshrimpJS #Iceshrimp.NET #PieFed #GoToSocial #PHP #RubyOnRails #Elixir #JavaScript #TypeScript #VueJS #C# #Python #Go

@Chao-c'

I believe there was always the best interest of Mastodon developers to enable their users to engage with content like PeerTube videos, WordPress blog posts, and so on.

WordPress has always been the tricky one out of these.

On the one hand, there was the promise to be able to follow WordPress blogs from Mastodon without resorting to RSS or Atom. And there was the promise to WordPress users to increase their subscribers by the folks in the Fediverse.

On the other hand, there was Mastodon's refusal to render Article-type objects such as those that WordPress sent. And I'm not even talking about rendering them without utterly defacing them. AFAIR, Automattic wasn't really pleased to see Mastodon only linking to WordPress blog posts. (By the way, the *omas and *keys show WordPress blog posts with no problems, even though they consider themselves microblogging apps, too.)

You also mention, that Hubzilla was first application ready to deliberately block other platforms... and then accuse Mastodon of doing the same

Not Hubzilla. (streams) and Forte were the first to have the User Agent Filter and even that not before September, 2024. FedUp, which locks out everything that's incompatible with enclosed conversations, wasn't there before 2025. Neither of these two was backported to Hubzilla.

All that Hubzilla has is ActivityPub being optional. And even that comes from ActivityPub still being an add-on plus the potential desire of Hubzilla users to have a 100% nomadic channel with nothing non-nomadic interfering. Mario and Harald do see it as a potential drawbridge. But it's mostly a historical relic from the times when Mike dreamt of the Grid. In fact, Hubzilla still has Friendica's "federate with everything that moves" attitude deep inside its DNA.

Also, if anyone is interested in blocking the non-Mastodon Fediverse, or large parts of it, from Mastodon, it's individual Mastodon users who have never gotten over their first message from Calckey or Friendica or whatever. The Mastodon devs, well, probably not so much. They want to make the non-Mastodon Fediverse look as bad as they can get away with, but they can't afford locking it out entirely.

I mean, I've actually taken into consideration submitting a feature request in Mastodon's GitHub repository for one or various means of excluding the non-Mastodon Fediverse from individual accounts or even entire servers, if only to see the comments. But I don't think the devs would even only take building that option into consideration, also because it might anger certain other actors like Ghost, Flipboard, Automattic...

But there is no reason to block entire platforms.

Mike Macgirvin will disagree with you.

In fact, almost everyone will disagree with you if you tell them that one of the platforms that can be blocked is Threads.

Myself, I would like to learn Rust and perhaps join some ActivityPub project in Rust, which would not be so strictly focused on being Xitter clone and would support more media options, would display more than 4 image attachments, would be very user configurable, be aware of status size limits of platforms of mentioned users, etc.

Plume is written in Rust. As it so happens, its development is, let's say, dormant. I mean, it outclasses WriteFreely in a whole bunch of ways, be it because it has its own built-in image file space, be it because it supports likes and comments, be it because its Web UI is more straight-forward than WriteFreely's. But its devs don't have any time for it, they won't have any for the foreseeable future, and they recommend everyone who is interested in Plume to join WriteFreely instead.

Maybe they can use an additional main dev who can forward the project (along their plans anyway), merge 3rd-party pull requests and such. It'd be a shame to see it go to waste.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Mastodon #WordPress #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Plume

@Chao-c'

The wiki reveals even different timeline:

"The wiki" sounds funny to someone who has three wikis of his own on his Hubzilla channel. Anyway...

To me, it seems, that Gargon simply was not as colossal nerd, as others, and somehow managed to create cult following of sufficient number of users, which were not really techies.

Gargron simply was lucky.

I think it was in 2016 already that German tech media got interested in decentralised alternatives to corporate silos. Mastodon caught their interest, being developed in Germany and all. Pleroma didn't, in spite of being developed in Germany, too, not to mention more feature-rich than Mastodon. Friendica was developed in Germany back then already, too, but it seemed like either tech media weren't interested in alternatives to something that needed alternatives much more than Twitter, or Friendica managed to continue to fly under the radar even then.

Anyway, Mastodon got media coverage, and nothing else did.

In 2017, right-wingers started attacking furries and queers on Twitter. They had to escape somewhere. Tumblr wasn't it, having been pretty much killed by being bought out and G-rated. But someone happened to know Mastodon due to the media coverage whereas nobody happened to know Pleroma due to no media coverage at all. So those furries and queers escaped to Mastodon. "Awoo" was briefly part of Mastodon's culture in the late 2010s due to the high furry-to-non-furry rate.

From then on, Mastodon had the two advantages of past media coverage and more users. The rest was like a snowball, essentially. The more users something has, the more users something gains by inviting them.

I guess Friendica and Hubzilla, both of which already existed back then, suffered from the same choice of mindsets: "If you build it, they will come," "We'll first need to get this and that fixed before we're ready for prime time," "Can't someone else take care of that? I'm bad at advertising stuff!" Plus, of course, people who really were bad at advertising stuff to anyone who's neither a developer nor a server admin.

I was thinking about need for decentralized social media since at least 2009, as I was watching the old web to slowly loose any relevance. (My Facebook account was canceled without any explanations as soon as perhaps sometimes like 2010?).

In 2009, there already was StatusNet. Granted, it was so obscure that vastly more people knew the "lighthouse server" Identi.ca than StatusNet itself. StatusNet supported the Twitter client API, but there were vastly more mobile apps that were hard-coded to Identi.ca than such where you could choose a StatusNet server because the huge majority of those who knew Identi.ca didn't even know it was part of a network. Identi.ca held some 90% of all StatusNet users.

By the way, what killed StatusNet was when Identi.ca changed its backend from StatusNet to pump.io and its protocol from OStatus to ActivityPump, thus becoming incompatible with the rest of StatusNet. What remained was largely unable to stand alone. What kind of helped Identi.ca (OStatus as a profile sucked so badly that Evan and Erin themselves had to whip up ActivityPump) did the opposite to StatusNet. A bit later, the FSF scooped it up, forked it to GNU social and eventually merged what was left of StatusNet into GNU social. It got ActivityPub support later on, but it's gone now, too.

Also, in 2010, Mistpark was around, and so was diaspora* (or what already existed of it at that time). diaspora* had tons of advance publicity due to its crowdfunding stunt, but then the four devs didn't manage to deliver before public interest had faded away, even with Mike's help on the protocol (not even kidding here). And speaking of Mike, he built Mistpark, but almost nobody came because he did nothing in terms of advertising. Even though Mistpark of May, 2010 was more powerful than diaspora* is today. Even though Mistpark took two months for a public alpha and four for a stable point release whereas it took diaspora* years to go beyond alpha, not to mention the entire development team being replaced.

I guess you would have been a prime Friendica user candidate. Particularly, you would have been one of those who were happy on a Friendica node without the performance-hogging Facebook connector in times when everyone was seeking out and piling onto the nodes with that connector, just to see them close registration at not even 150 accounts.

I was thinking about basing it on bunch of combined RSS feeds, the publicly compatible vs. the activity stream, which is not so different from from like ActivityPub is made today, except that signing of content with public keys is more advanced concept, that what I was able to imagine.

Well, they say that ActivityPub is glorified RSS with a rubbery spec.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Mastodon #Pleroma #StatusNet #Identi.ca #GNUsocial #Friendica #Hubzilla #OStatus #ActivityPump #ActivityPub

@Chao-c'

Friendica is missing polls altogether and the stunt with language auto-detection is damaging built-in translation feature in Mastodon.

Mastodon has no concept of enclosed conversations which is damaging threaded conversations at least on Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte, as they were created by Mike Macgirvin for Mistpark (now Friendica) in 2010. Mastodon has no chance whatsoever to implement FEP-171b "Conversation Containers" because it lacks even the bare basics.

This is the very reason why Mike Macgirvin (creator of Friendica and Hubzilla and still maintainer of (streams) and Forte) has introduced yet another server-wide anti-Mastodon countermeasure named FedUp to both (streams) and Forte. Its effect is that it blocks all Fediverse server software that doesn't understand enclosed, one-post-several-comments conversations and the principle of all comments always going directly to the original poster who then forwards them to all other participants in the conversation.

(streams) and Forte already have the server-wide User Agent Filter that can block entire Fediverse server applications by their user channel. It was created and mostly marketed as a way of blocking Threads without a URL list, without constantly having to add new URLs to a list because Threads changed its URLs. But it's just as capable at entirely blocking all present and future Mastodon servers, and Mike even describes it as such.

Also, want to know the reason why Mike still keeps Nomad-based (streams) alive in spite of also having ActivityPub-based Forte with almost feature parity? It's because ActivityPub is optional on (streams) at channel level. The ActivityPub switch can be used as a last-resort anti-Mastodon countermeasure even though its side-effects are tremendous. The most important (streams) group, a support group, by the way, used to have ActivityPub off with the very purpose of keeping obnoxious Mastodon users out. It only turned ActivityPub on when it also became the unofficial support group for Forte.

As I've said elsewhere: It isn't Mastodon that's the ActivityPub reference implementation of ActivityPub with everything that's different being broken. Mike Macgirvin has built all his ActivityPub implementations by the book, and so have Hubzilla developers Mario Vavti and Harald Eilertsen, two months before Mastodon itself had ActivityPub support. In the meantime, Mastodon's developers deliberately and intentionally break compatibility with the rest of the Fediverse to fool Mastodon users like you into considering the non-Mastodon Fediverse broken.

I would also appreciate longer HTML files as kind of "media attachments" and not body of the post. The main problem is perhaps that Mastodon chose to ignore the post title field altogether and does not allow markup in post body (but there is entire huge fork called Glitch, which supports markup, but perhaps markup is what you want in longer texts, kind of attachments - but not short on-wall posts?)

The solution for this would lie in the dichotomy between Note-type objects (tweets are supposed to be this) and Article-type objects (longer posts are supposed to be this).

Mastodon supports both in a way. But it only renders Note-type objects. Even then, it still throws away the title and all attached images except for the first four. Its HTML sanitiser removes half of the text formatting, including embedded images. As for Article-type objects, it shows them as a small "toot" with the title and a link to the original. Only recently, probably also under pressure from commercial players like Ghost, Mastodon added the summary which it otherwise uses as the CW field.

But this is highly inconvenient. Hardly any Mastodon user can be bothered to click or tap the link to the original. They don't understand that there's a Fediverse post behind that link, much less that if they comment on the "toot" with the link, they comment on the post behind the link itself. Besides, what's behind the link won't show up on their Mastodon interface. Instead, if they're on a phone, their browser will open.

From this stems a debate that's as old as Mastodon's participation in the Fediverse. A prime example of culture clash.

The developers and users of Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte want Mastodon as well as all its apps to fully render all their contents in the timeline. Including the title, including all text formatting, including as many embedded images as there are, as images actually embedded within the text, of course. The very same thing happens where they are. It's normal for them. It's the standard for them. It's part of their culture. What Mastodon does on their Note-type objects is crippling and defacing, and what Mastodon does on their Article-type objects is silencing to the point of wholesale censorship of several competitors.

On the other hand, the Mastodon devs refuse to add full HTML rich text rendering to Mastodon, and the Mastodon users don't want it anyway. In fact, many Mastodon users are highly disturbed by there being "toots" that are longer than 500 characters, and some are disturbed by there being any text formatting (displaying support for which was only introduced in October, 2022 with Mastodon 4.0, by the way). Their culture is that of purist microblogging in plain text with no more than 500 characters. It's already too much what Mastodon and its apps show already now. Thousands upon thousands of Mastodon users would go and block each and every server that sends anything over 500 characters if they knew that this is an option.

At the same time, hardly anyone on Mastodon even takes into consideration that whatever "long posts" come from has something like a culture of its own in the first place. It can't be culture if it isn't Mastodon's.

As I mentioned in the previous answer, Hubzilla just does too many things differently and focuses on experience of local users of instance - not on federated interoperability.

Seriously?

Hubzilla has had full-blown nomadic identity since almost four years before Mastodon came out.

Hubzilla is almost as much an omni-federational monster as Friendica.

• It has optional ActivityPub support, unlike Mastodon almost strictly by the official W3C specification, and it has had ActivityPub support before Mastodon had it.
• It used to have optional StatusNet support which is how Mastodon federated with it immediately.
• It can optionally federate with diaspora*; Mastodon can't do that.
• It can optionally federate via ActivityPump, the protocol that replaced StatusNet on Identi.ca; Mastodon can't do that.
• It can optionally cross-post to Dreamwidth, Libertree, LiveJournal and WordPress. It has been able to do either years before WordPress got its ActivityPub plug-in. Mastodon can't do either.
• It still has the optional technology to bidirectionally connect to 𝕏; Mastodon doesn't have that.
• It still has an optional built-in XMPP client; Mastodon doesn't have that.

Mastodon is simply lights years ahead.

I sincerely hope that you only mean that Mastodon is ahead of others in terms of easy on-boarding of clueless newbies. And not that Mastodon is generally ahead of Hubzilla technologically and in features.

If the latter, I'll gladly prove you wrong.

I would prefer moderation to be more collective responsibility, so posts can receive perhaps kind of negative points, and people can choose to join shared blocklists and so, instead of relying of some superhero capabilites of moderators (which I don't have).

The problem with this is blind faith in those who maintain the blocklists.

Big blocklists tend to be automatically generated from smaller blocklists, letting everything from each one of these blocklists in, only weeding out double entries, if at all. Single persons have unlimited power over who is allowed to interact with thousands upon thousands of Mastodon servers and who isn't.

Now imagine that someone who maintains a popular blocklist is too disturbed by non-Mastodon content. It's too long, it doesn't follow Mastodon guidelines, it goes against Mastodon's culture, so it has to go. And then they start adding every single server URL from which obvious non-Mastodon content comes to their blocklist. Or they even use a script to harvest FediDB and Fediverse Observer for URLs of servers of certain non-Mastodon Fediverse applications and automatically add them to their blocklist.

And all of a sudden, almost entire non-Mastodon Fediverse server applications are completely blocked from thousands upon thousands of Mastodon servers just because they aren't Mastodon, just because they don't act like Mastodon. Essentially, just because one individual wants the Fediverse to be only Mastodon "again" (which it never was).

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Mastodon #MastodonCentricity #MastodonNormativity #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #CharacterLimit #CharacterLimits #CharacterLimitMeta #CWCharacterLimitMeta #Conversations #FEP_171b #ConversationContainers #Blocklist #Blocklists #BlocklistMeta #CWBlocklistMeta

@Chao-c'

Also, ALT text translates with the rest of the post, which can be helpful for images which contain only foreign language text.

Hubzilla is the most incompatible ActivityPub software in Fediverse. You do just lot of things wrong, to put it mildly.

You still seem to think that Gargron invented ActivityPub and the Fediverse, that Mastodon is the one and only reference implementation of ActivityPub, and that everything that doesn't work exactly like Mastodon is broken.

Here are the facts:

Mastodon was launched in January, 2016.

Hubzilla was launched in March, 2015. Counting an earlier incarnation named Red, it was created in May, 2012, when Friendica's creator re-wrote his own fork of a Friendica fork of his own.

Mastodon implemented ActivityPub in September, 2017, when the spec wasn't finalised yet.

Hubzilla implemented ActivityPub in July, 2017. Two months before Mastodon. Hubzilla was the first software to ever implement ActivityPub.

Hubzilla implemented ActivityPub strictly by the book. It has always tried to stick as close to the official W3C ActivityPub spec as possible.

Mastodon, in stark contrast, has always been stretching the ActivityPub spec until it broke. Not only that, but it has always been adding stuff outside the spec. First it did so to take over certain features from StatusNet which was its original protocol. More recently, it did so with the very intention to break compatibility with the rest of the Fediverse and make everything that isn't Mastodon look broken. And people like you keep falling for it because they think they know for a fact that Mastodon is the ActivityPub reference implementation.

The whole Fediverse has to break the ActivityPub spec just to be able to federate with Mastodon.

yes, the Hubzilla author is writing Streams, with nomadic identity, but it also means, that he understands, that Hubzilla approach is kind of dead-end.

You know nothing. Whereas I can rattle down the whole history from Mistpark in 2010 to today.

Mike Macgirvin, creator of Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte created his post-Hubzilla server applications because he kept advancing the Zot protocol. And he couldn't implement these advancements into Hubzilla because they bore the chance of breaking compatibility with what already existed.

(streams) is not a completely new development, nor is it a straight Hubzilla fork.

(streams) is a 2022 fork of Roadhouse.
Which was a 2022 fork of either the third Osada or Mistpark 2020 or Redmatrix 2020.
Which were 2020 forks of Zap (or each other, but at least one of them was forked from Zap).
Which was a 2018 fork of either Hubzilla itself or the first Osada, which was a 2018 fork of Hubzilla.

Osada and Zap were created to develop Zot6. In its early stages of concept, Mike expected Zot6 to be incompatible with everything else. Mind you, he didn't see that as something bad. Advancing Zot was necessary because the then-current version of Zot was less than optimal. And Mike's vision was a decentralised, nomadic network named the "Grid", entirely based on Zot. The Grid would have been vastly superior to the existing Fediverse in every way possible.

So the issue with his early draft of Zot6 was that it was quite incompatible with non-nomadic protocols. Nomadic Zot6 content could not be translated into non-nomadic protocols like the diaspora* protocol or ActivityPub.

Thus, developing Zot6 on Hubzilla was out of question. Zot6 would have broken too much on Hubzilla. Besides, Hubzilla was bad as a platform to experiment on due to its wealth of supported protocols and other features, all of which would have had to be made compatible with Zot6.

And this is the real reason why Mike created Osada and Zap. From how I see it, and how I remember what he talked about back in the day (I was there, yes), he first forked Osada from Hubzilla. Then he ripped everything out that he didn't need, including support for all protocols except for Zot itself, ActivityPub, RSS and Atom, including the CMS stuff like articles, planning cards, notes, wikis and webpages, etc. Then he modified what was left against his early version of Zot6.

Then he discovered that a cloned Osada channel couldn't properly send content via ActivityPub.

Then, shortly afterwards, he forked Osada into Zap. He removed nomadic identity from Osada which kept ActivityPub and ActivityPub support from Zap which stayed nomadic.

The idea was to have a nomadic, cloned channel on Zap as your main channel that would only connect to Hubzilla, Osada and Zap, and to have an additional, non-nomadic channel on Osada that would serve as a "gateway" between nomadic Zap and the non-nomadic ActivityPub Fediverse.

Of course, this was highly impractical. But by 2019, Mike found a way to make Zot6 compatible with non-nomadic protocols. So, in early 2019, Mike discontinued Osada and forked a new Osada from Zap which only differred from Zap by having ActivityPub support while still being nomadic. This enabled Mike to have one development platform for Zot6 in conjunction with non-nomadic protocols and another one on which ActivityPub did not stand in the way.

Later in 2019, both Osada and Zap got stable releases. At that point, Osada and Zap were identical in code. Both had ActivityPub support. It was included into their cores now and no longer an add-on like on Hubzilla. They only had two differences. One was the branding. The other one was that Osada servers had ActivityPub activated by default, and Zap servers had ActivityPub disabled by default. Keeping Osada around was unnecessary now, so ActivityPub was activated by default on Zap, and Osada was discontinued. Zot6 was so stable that it was soon backported to Hubzilla.

Mike wasn't done yet, though. He now wanted to develop Zot8. Again, he did not want to develop protocol changes on stable production software that people potentially daily-drove.

Thus, three new forks emerged in 2020: another Osada, Mistpark 2020 (a.k.a. Misty) and Redmatrix 2020 (named after the Red Matrix, the name that Hubzilla bore from late 2012 to early 2015 between being created as Red and being re-branded into Hubzilla). Mike used them to develop Zot8. They were identical in all but brand identity.

This was fully intentional on Mike's part to confuse the hell out of the brand fetishists that were growing more and more numerous in the Fediverse. His goal was for people to declare Osada or Misty or Redmatrix the best Fediverse software and superior to everything else, just for him to tell them that Osada, Misty and Redmatrix are absolutely identical. In fact, the three remained identical to Zap in features.

Zot8 never got stable because Mike kept advancing it further and further. In early 2022, he was at Zot11. But Zot11 was so incompatible with everything else, including previous Zot versions, that Mike declared it a new protocol of its own and renamed it Nomad. In order to test-drive it, he forked Osada or Misty or Redmatrix into Roadhouse. After all, there were people who were daring enough to daily-drive production channels on Osada, Misty and Redmatrix, albeit only few. Roadhouse was still identical in features to Zap, Osada, Misty and Redmatrix.

It was now possible to crossgrade between Zap, Osada, Misty, Redmatrix and Roadhouse by simply rebasing the server code.

Later in 2022, he created a new fork of Roadhouse itself. The reason for this was not further protocol advancement. No, this time, it mostly had branding and licensing reasons.

First of all, he wanted to make that fork as easy for others to fork and adopt as possible. Everything he had developed so far was under the MIT license (he himself had relicensed Friendica under the AGPLv3 in 2011, but he didn't actually develop on Friendica; he developed on a fork named Free-Friendika that was still MIT-licensed and then backported the changes to the Friendica repository, and Red was a Free-Friendika fork). This new repository was released into the public domain. At first, the whole thing was never primarily intended to be installed on servers as it was, but rather to be forked as the base of something new.

At least the core and Mike's own add-ons were. What third-party add-ons from Hubzilla times were still there got to keep their maze of licenses. This was intentional on Mike's part, too. It would make it impossible for commercial players to scoop up the whole thing and relicense it into something non-free and commercial without breaking any licenses, or without pumping tons of money into their legal department to work around that maze of licenses.

Also, Mike removed any and all naming and branding from the software. He absolutely intentionally made it nameless. You've read that right. He did this for two reasons. One, whoever wanted to fork it would have to give the fork an individual name and an individual branding. Two, this was to mess with brand fanbois and brand fetishists even more: This thing had no brand to gush over to begin with.

Furthermore, Mike removed all nodeinfo code that he could possibly get away with removing. Again, this was intentional. One intention was to stop this software from automatically joining the "my Fediverse project is bigger than yours" and "my server is bigger than yours" rat races. He intentionally did everything he could to keep this software away from The Federation, Fediverse Observer, FediDB and the like.

The other intention was for the case of commercial players looking for free code to steal. If this software had really taken off and left its stats proving its popularity everywhere, some big commercial player would have been likely to try and steal this software, make it commercial and non-free and release it as their own original creation. So his intention was for them to not even be able to find it in this case. (This, by the way, was the reason why he relicensed Friendica under the AGPLv3, and why he hardly ever spoke about Free-Friendika: Now that Friendica was growing popular, he didn't want big commercial players to scoop up code of his under a license that they could change to non-free.)

This server application became the first and only one in the Fediverse with no fixed server type identifier, in fact, with none at all by default. It has one text field for the server name, just like Mastodon and Friendica and Hubzilla and the like. But it has an additional field where the server type, i.e. the identifier for the software, can be entered. If none is entered, it's derived from the server name. Mike used to have a server that identified as "Y" because, as he said, "Y is not X."

While the application itself is nameless (for it still is), the code repository did require a name of sorts. Mike named the repository "streams".

Now, the community needed something to call that nameless software when they spoke about it. So they unofficially established "(streams)", complete with parentheses that make sure that this is not actually the name of this software. Those who say, "Streams," with a capital S and no parentheses, and who use that term as if it's an official name, usually sincerely believe that this is the official name.

Mike himself uses "streams" without the parentheses because even he needs something to call his own software by. Before Forte was made, he preferred talking about the streams repository without directly mentioning the software. And he himself denied that (streams) is even a project. It's just a bunch of code that runs.

As far as I know, it was now possible to freely crossgrade between six different server applications because they were still identical in features. Only that Mike also had six server applications to take care of now.

So on December 31st, 2022, Mike discontinued Zap, Osada, Misty, Redmatrix and Roadhouse. Admins who ran either of these on their servers were recommended to rebase their servers to the streams repository. In this case, by the way, the old branding was kept. I've seen a server that still had "zap" as its subdomain which indicated that it was set up as a Zap server, that had Misty branding, but that actually ran (streams).

From then on, Mike dedicated his time to maintaining and developing only the streams repository. He still occasionally helped Hubzilla out, though.

In 2023, the Mitra creator and developer silverpill approached Mike. The goal was to make Mitra nomadic. I guess earlier attempts using a blockchain and crypto technology didn't come to fruition, so it had to be Mike's way which had proven itself stable for more than a decade. However, Mitra was to remain based on ActivityPub.

It was in this exchange that Mike realised that ActivityPub could indeed be used for nomadic identity if a few things were added to it. One outcome was FEP-ef61 "Portable Objects" which introduced decentralised IDs (DIDs) that would not be bound to any one server domain.

Instead of creating a whole new server application to play with, Mike simply made a "nomadic" branch in the streams repository (even though the software was already nomadic) in which he implemented support for nomadic identity via ActivityPub. Support as in (streams) understanding it while internally still using Nomad for nomadicity.

In June, 2024, Mike considered the "nomadic" branch reliable enough and merged it into the "dev" branch.

In July, 2024, Mike merged the "dev" branch into the "release" branch which caused DIDs as per FEP-ef61 to be rolled out to existing production servers. On accounts created on this new version, channels would have a DID internally. On accounts greated on any previous version, even new channels would keep the old ID system for the time being. This way, existing accounts and channels weren't messed with.

However, what had worked under supervised and restricted lab conditions completely blew up under real-life conditions. Again, I was there on (streams) with a pre-DID account and two channels on it. I still have them. (streams) channels wouldn't federate with anything anymore. It had become impossible to send anything anywhere. What Mike was facing was nothing short of an enigma because not even he knew what was going in.

So he started tinkering. In mid-August, Mike forked the streams repository into something named and branded Forte. He did so so he could rip the Nomad protocol out while still keeping the entire functionality. He had to get rid of Nomad because he had discovered that (streams) got confused juggling all the many IDs it had to deal with, so he had to weed out the Nomad and Zot6 IDs to make things easier. But he couldn't possibly have done that on (streams) proper.

This way, Mike created the very first Fediverse server software that uses ActivityPub for full nomadicity, including cloning.

By the end of August, things got back to normal. But Mike, having spent every free minute in the last few weeks to get (streams) back into working condition, was burned out. He sent an open message around in which he declared that he would completely retire from Fediverse development, and both the streams repository and Forte were up for grabs.

But nobody was found who could take over either. (streams) and Forte probably had way fewer than 100 users combined. Those few who would have been able to maintain either didn't have time. One did have time and was willing to do so, but he didn't know how to code. He eventually did start teaching himself, and he occasionally contributes merge requests, but there was no way he could take over as the only dev for either, much less both. So Mike had to go on, whether he wanted or not, albeit at a somewhat slower pace.

This is why Mike is still developing (streams) and Forte to this day.

By the way: The reason why Mike "abandoned" his old software was because he needed to invest all his time into protocol development and advancement. Mike isn't the one to constantly maintain stable server software unless he absolutely has to.

In 2011, he handed Friendica over to two new developers so that he had time to create the Zot protocol.

In 2015 already, he handed Hubzilla over to two new developers so that he had time to explore the advancement of the Zot protocol. He still contributed to Hubzilla's development.

In 2019, he wanted to hand Osada and Zap over to the community, now that they were stable, so he had time to develop Zot8. But the Osada/Zap community was so tiny that he couldn't get a new dedicated developer team together.

In 2024, he wanted to hand (streams) and Forte over to the community because fixing (streams)' huge identity bug, which led to Forte's creation, had burnt him out. He wanted to quit. But, again, he couldn't because (streams) didn't have a single user who had both the time and the knowledge to take over as the new main dev.

Consider this: Gargron was a young man when he made Mastodon. I think he was still at university. Mike Macgirvin made Friendica, he had some three decades of professional work in IT and software under his belly. Gargron was at the beginning of his career. Mike had quit and moved from the USA to the western Australian outback where he has been living as a farmer ever since. He might actually be older than Gargron's parents.

while nomadic identitity would be cool thing, currently it does not exist

Take off your Mastodon glasses and look at the Fediverse and what it actually is like.

Nomadic identity does exist. Not as a vague idea, not as a concept on paper, but as a stable, production-grade feature that has been used to its full extent for well over a decade now. Just because Mastodon doesn't have it, doesn't mean the Fediverse doesn't have it. And just because Mastodon doesn't recognise it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

The Fediverse has loads of features which Mastodon users want "the Fediverse" to have. It has features which many Mastodon users have never wanted "the Fediverse" to have such as quote-posts, introduced by Mike Macgirvin on Mistpark in 2010. It even has features that are completely and utterly unimaginable for Mastodon users, and it has had even these since as early as 2010, 2012 or 2015.

Nomadic identity was invented by Mike Macgirvin in 2011 with the Zot protocol.

It was first implemented by him in mid-2012 when he rewrote Red against Zot. This means that Hubzilla itself has been offering full-blown nomadic identity since 2012, almost four years longer than Mastodon has existed.

This very Hubzilla channel that I'm commenting from right here, right now, is actually nomadic. It is cloned across two servers: hub.netzgemeinde.eu and hub.hubzilla.de. And it has been since before Elon Musk announced to take over Twitter in early 2022. When I sent you this comment, it was automatically sync'd over to hub.hubzilla.de. When you sent the comment that I'm replying to, it was automatically sync'd over to hub.hubzilla.de. The clone has actually been of great help at least once.

Unfortunately, non-nomadic software identifies cloned channels as fully separate accounts with fully separate identities. But rest assured: @Jupiter Rowland on hub.hubzilla.de is my clone. It's the live, hot, real-time, bidirectional backup of the main instance of my channel, @Jupiter Rowland on hub.netzgemeinde.eu that you're following now. They're both one and the same channel with one and the same identity, [email protected], even though Mastodon is unable to see it as such. Go check both. You'll see they've got all the same content in them, including comments from others. Including your comment. How else can [email protected] possibly have one of your comments under a post if you've only sent that comment to [email protected] if it weren't for nomadic identity?

Even nomadic identity via ActivityPub is available as a stable, production-grade feature in stable, production-grade software right now as we speak. Forte was the first to be fully nomadic via nothing but ActivityPub, as of mid-August, 2024. Tootik, based on Gemini instead of the World Wide Web, is fully nomadic at server level, too. Mitra is fully nomadic by means of the Minimitra client.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #MastodonCentricity #MastodonNormativity #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares #QuotePostDebate #QuoteTootDebate #ActivityPub #Zot #Zot6 #Zot8 #Nomad #Friendica #Red #RedMatrix #Hubzilla #Osada #Zap #Mistpark #Mistpark2020 #Misty #Redmatrix2020 #Roadhouse #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Tootik #Mitra #Minimitra #NomadicIdentity

@Chao-c'

People know, that there are alternatives, and explore them.

Just because you know, doesn't mean literally everyone knows.

Every single Mastodon newbie is being implied to or outright told that Mastodon is the only thing in the Fediverse. They don't choose Mastodon because it suits them the best. I mean, most of them by far already have problems choosing a Mastodon server. In fact, they don't choose Mastodon within the Fediverse at all. They don't even know they have a choice. If they did, Sharkey and Friendica would be much bigger.

I think it can replace also Facebook and Instagram.

It's a far cry from either.

Pixelfed was created as an Instagram clone and a drop-in replacement for Instagram. You can literally import entire Instagram accounts into Pixelfed.

Friendica was created as early as 2010 as an alternative to Facebook. It has all the features a social network needs. Bidirectional contacts like Facebook friends. Dedicated profile fields as opposed to only a small handful of multi-purpose profile fields. Contact suggestions based on your and their profile. Contact suggestions based on how many contacts you have in common. What everyone believes Google+ has invented with its circles (Mastodon lists on 'roids). Discussion groups. Moderated discussion groups. Private discussion groups. No ridiculously low arbitrary character limit.

I challenge you to use Friendica or Hubzilla or (streams) or Forte as your only daily driver for a year. Not just dip a toe in, but take off the Mastodon glasses and exclusively daily-drive it. Use it for everything that you use Mastodon for right now without ever falling back to your Mastodon account for that time. And then I want to hear from you whether Mastodon really is a full-blown, fully-featured Facebook alternative and better at being that than Friendica and its family.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Facebook #FacebookAlternative #Mastodon #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte

@Mitch Conner @silverpill Exactly this exists on Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte. With even more options, actually. Hubzilla calls them "privacy groups", (streams) and Forte call them "access lists".

Now it comes: You can not only post to one specific such group/list. You can also post to several ones. Or to any combination of privacy groups/access lists and single contacts.

Better yet: You can even exclude single contacts or the members of certain privacy groups/access lists. You can post to the members of privacy groups Foo and Bar, except if they're also in privacy group Baz, and except for Alice, and in addition, you can post to Bob and Carol.

In addition, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte don't just define who receives the post. They don't simply flag it a DM either. They flag it "restricted" and only grant the recipients permission to read the post, read any comments and interact with anything in the conversation. In practice, this also means that those who have these permissions can not only interact with the original poster, but just as well with each other, because it isn't a DM.

Anything that doesn't understand these permissions, e.g. Mastodon, do understand it as a DM. This limits their possibilities to interact, but it's the safe way.

And yet, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte still have private and/or secret groups with moderation (like Facebook groups) on top of all this. (streams) and Forte even optionally have two levels of non-moderator users.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Groups #FediGroups #FediverseGroups #PrivateGroups #Permissions #PrivacyGroups #AccessLists

@william ⁂ maggos @silverpill Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte are much closer to Facebook-style social networking than to Twitter-style social media. In fact, they're descendants of Friendica, the first decentralised dedicated Facebook alternative. (Let's set aside that Hubzilla is usually referred to as something like a "social CMS" for a moment.)

They have multiple ways of rendering groups private, all of which go beyond Mastodon's way of making something private by limiting the receiving actors.

For starters, private groups only grant their own members permission to receive any content from the group. Also, private groups only grant their own members permission to see the group stream. Furthermore, private groups only grant their own members permission to see the group channel profile and its contacts. On Hubzilla, these are all separate options.

On top of all this, they can hide groups from directories. That way, these groups can be made known only by hearsay and/or personal contact to interested users. This doesn't necessarily make them private; it makes them secret.

All these options are available for normal, non-group-actor channels as well, by the way.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Groups #FediGroups #FediverseGroups #PrivateGroups

@DavidM_yeg @Dennis What more is needed?

A full visual description of the settings, the people (of course, avoiding their gender and describing their skin tone rather than their race), their outfits, the surroundings?

The title of the film, including an explanation what this film is, who made it, what it is about, when it was released, who the characters are and who the actors are?

Regardless of neither of this belonging into the alt-text because information that is neither available in the message text nor plainly visible to sighted users in the image does not belong into the alt-text? Because there are people who cannot access alt-text?

https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/wiki/jupiter_rowland/How(20)to(20)describe(20)images(20)in(20)the(20)Fediverse/Don(27)t(20)explain(20)things(20)or(20)give(20)other(20)information(20)only(20)in(20)alt-text(21)

https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/wiki/jupiter_rowland/How(20)to(20)describe(20)images(20)in(20)the(20)Fediverse/Can(20)everyone(20)access(20)alt-text(3f)

And, pray tell, how is all this supposed to fit in 512 characters or fewer so that Misskey, Calckey, Firefish, Iceshrimp-JS, Sharkey, CherryPick and the other Misskey forks won't discard the alt-text?

https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/wiki/jupiter_rowland/How(20)to(20)describe(20)images(20)in(20)the(20)Fediverse/How(20)long(20)can(20)alt-text(20)be(3f)

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Misskey #Forkey #Forkeys #Calckey #Firefish #Iceshrimp #Iceshrimp-JS #Sharkey #CherryPick #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta

@william ⁂ maggos In this regard, Mastodon has only got one major advantage: It has an official app.

Phone users used to see Twitter as a phone app that they loaded from their app store. Mastodon is the only *blogging thing in the Fediverse that they can load from their app store.

This is one reason why just about all Mastodon newbies use the official app and why they're on mastodon.social (it's the default in the official app, and since they don't know what this setting does, they leave it on default).

Mastodon even gets away with an official app that's far from good, much less fully features. All the newbies don't have anything to compare with. If Mastodon is a phone app to them, then the official app's feature set is Mastodon's feature set. If a feature isn't implemented in the official app, then Mastodon doesn't have it. I dare say that well over 80% of all Mastodon users have never in their lives used Mastodon's Web UI.

If someone takes the step and moves from the official Mastodon app to Ivory or Mona or IceCubes or Tusky or Fedilab or something like this, it's almost always the first time in their lives that they use an online service through an app that has a different name than the online service. Many people couldn't even imagine doing that.

This means that if Friendica and Hubzilla want to be more successful, growing beyond Mike's old "if you build it, they'll come" credo and advertising more isn't sufficient. People must be able to load Friendica/Hubzilla onto their phones from their app store. This requires an official app named "Friendica"/"Hubzilla" with a native, up-to-date iOS UI in the Apple App Store and one with a native, up-to-date Android UI in the Google Play Store. The existence of an official phone app in the Apple App Store and the Google Play Store is essential for being considered existent in the first place.

A commonplace attitude on Friendica and even more so on Hubzilla is that both can be installed as a PWA. But seriously, 99.9% of all phone users don't even know that PWAs exist. They don't know what that is. Not to mention that they expect and demand a native mobile UI in the style of their phone OS and not a generic Web UI.

Now, what would this app have to look like?

If the advantages of Friendica and Hubzilla over Mastodon are to be emphasised and underlined, and if this app is to become people's one and only daily driver UI, it will have to be fully featured. Minus the settings for the Web UI (e.g. the theme settings and the PDL editor on Hubzilla), minus stuff that you'll never need if you only ever use the phone app and never the server UI (e.g. Webpages on Hubzilla), but otherwise fully featured. This would also demonstrate just how vastly more powerful Friendica and Hubzilla are than Mastodon.

The obvious downside is that such an app would be a feature monster. Bigger and more feature-laden than any Android e-mail app or OpenStreetMap editor.

There has been some talk about building an official Hubzilla phone app. Some Hubzilla users have proposed an app that only offers the very basics. However, their idea behind this is not to make the app easier for newbies to use, but to make it easier for the developers to build. They're often still stuck in the early 2010s when phone apps for websites were considered gimmicks. They think that people will only use the app when they're out and about, and when they're back home, they'll sit down behind their computers and use the Web interface. Thus, phone apps only need the most basic features implemented.

But 2026 is not 2011. The huge majority of Mastodon users only use Mastodon through a phone app. Even when they're at home. As I've said: If the app doesn't have a feature, the whole product doesn't have the feature, regardless of whether or not the feature is implemented in the server backend and even in the Web frontend.

Besides, even Friendica's basic features that you'll need all the time are a lot. Hubzilla's basic features that you'll need all the time are even more numerous.

Shall people be limited to posting in public when they're on a phone because the phone app doesn't have any permission settings?

Shall people be limited to posting to their contacts when they're on a phone because someone decided that support for groups would make the phone app too complex?

Shall people wait until they're home, and they've got some time to fire up a computer, open a Web browser and log onto the Web interface to accept connection requests because the phone app doesn't have any connection settings? What if they don't have a computer?

Let's face it, social networking itself is a complex thing. And I mean actual social networking. Not misusing glorified SMS as a social network. Real social networking. Facebook-level social networking. Google+-level social networking. MySpace-level social networking.

Thus, a social networking phone app with all features necessary for real social networking has to be complex. This isn't a Friendica/Hubzilla issue. Don't believe that the official Facebook apps are simple.

This is also why so many prefer 𝕏 over Facebook. Facebook is complex. Facebook isn't just register, follow, post. 𝕏 is much more simple. 𝕏 is glorified SMS. 𝕏 is literally just register, follow, tweet. Facebook is rocket science whereas 𝕏 is for dumb-dumbs.

And it's because Mastodon is so lacking that it's for dumb-dumbs by Fediverse standards. In fact, if you don't read those panicky "it's too complicated because you have to know what a server is" posts, if you just load the app and create an account, Mastodon, through the official app, is for dumb-dumbs by all standards.

However, those who actually are on Facebook are willing to put up with something more complex. They need something more complex than glorified SMS for dumb-dumbs. They need the extra features that Facebook has that 𝕏 doesn't, even if these are the very features that deny Facebook the "for dumb-dumbs" attribute.

Send them to Mastodon, and they'll be irritated and even repelled because this feature isn't there, and that feature isn't there, and that feature is cut down beyond recognition, and they can't find any interesting people (not because Mastodon is decentralised, and the interesting people are on other servers, but because Mastodon's directory sucks arse in comparison with Facebook's), and what's with that stupid character limit?

On Friendica and Hubzilla, this feature and that feature have been there for longer than Mastodon itself, that feature is even more powerful than on Facebook proper, interesting people are being shoved into their faces once they've filled out their profile, even more so once they've got some connections, and there is no character limit worth speaking of.

But as long as Friendica and Hubzilla don't have official, fully daily-driveable phone apps named "Friendica" and "Hubzilla" respectively, they simply don't exist.

Granted, there's another obstacle. Many Mastodon users say the Fediverse needs a Facebook alternative. If you tell them about Friendica and its descendants, some will be very thankful because they've genuinely never heard of any of these.

Others will tell you that they know Friendica and maybe even Hubzilla. But they also say that none of these are Facebook alternatives. For when they say, "alternative," what they really mean is, "1:1 clone, just with a different name and decentralised and with ActivityPub and without spying and without the recent enshittification and without the evil CEO, otherwise absolutely identical."

One big aspect of this is that, as they say, the Fediverse needs an alternative to Facebook Groups. Friendica groups are exactly that because they were designed to be exactly that. Hubzilla forums, (streams) groups, Forte groups, all just that. But according to these people, they don't count because they aren't handled in precisely the same way as Facebook groups. Facebook groups aren't separate accounts. And different equals bad.

What really has me shake my head is that those who want a 1:1 Facebook clone continue to use Mastodon as a Facebook alternative. Even though Friendica and its family are vastly closer to Facebook regardless. Even though Mastodon not only doesn't have groups at all, but it doesn't even have any support for external groups. Is shouting into the void with a bunch of hashtags and hoping the right people will hear you really that much better than a Friendica group or a Hubzilla forum or maybe a PieFed community?

By the way: Just how faithful a Twitter clone is Mastodon really, seeing as Misskey and the Forkeys have the odd Twitter feature that Mastodon still lacks, seeing as even Mastodon gradually becomes more complex than 𝕏, much more so than when-it-still-was-good Twitter?

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #CharacterLimit #CharacterLimits #CharacterLimitMeta #CWCharacterLimitMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Misskey #Forkey #Forkeys #PieFed #Privacy #Permission #Permissions #Groups #FediverseGroups #FediGroups #App #PhoneApp #iPhoneApp #iOSApp #AndroidApp #SocialNetwork #SocialNetworking #Twitter #𝕏 #Facebook #FacebookGroups

@Truth & Answers Let me be honest: Mastodon isn't the right thing to rely on for this.

There are two common misconceptions on Mastodon about Mastodon. The first one is that Mastodon is the only free, non-commercial, non-corporate, decentralised social anything. Once Mastodon users are over this, they still think Mastodon is the best free, non-commercial, non-corporate, decentralised social anything.

I've seen Mastodon being advertised by users as a Fediverse alternative to literally everything, including Reddit (because, like, you can communicate, right?) and even YouTube (because, like, you can upload videos, right?).

But again, let me be honest: The only thing that Mastodon can hope to be an alternative to is 𝕏. Because it's a Twitter clone. A purist Twitter clone whose developers intentionally reject feature requests because the requested features don't fit into their image of purist, minimalist, old-school, original-gangsta microblogging. They want to keep Mastodon a slightly more glorified SMS than 𝕏.

Mastodon isn't even the only microblogging server application in the Fediverse. It isn't even the best at that. 80-90% of Mastodon's users don't and probably will never realise that Mastodon is an intentionally crippled resource hog. Many believe that Mastodon is the fully-featured be-all, end-all of social networking.

By the way, even the Mastodon developers claim that Mastodon is fully featured. I've had a Mastodon dev try hard to convince me that Mastodon is fully featured although I've told him that I'm on Hubzilla. He essentially tried to tell me that Mastodon has every last feature that Hubzilla has plus even more on top.

In reality, Mastodon isn't the fully-featured be-all, end-all of social networking. It isn't even a social network. It's social media, just like 𝕏 is social media. It's designed for pumping out content and being followed because it's designed as a Twitter-like microblogging application. And it isn't even the best at microblogging.

Almost everyone on Mastodon is fully convinced that Mastodon has to be the best. After all, it's the biggest. It's what everyone chose.

No.

Mastodon is the biggest because everyone who wants to leave 𝕏 or Threads or Bluesky is railroaded to Mastodon. It's the biggest because all the newbies are only told about Mastodon. It's the biggest because none of the newbies even learn upon on-boarding that other 𝕏 alternatives exist in the Fediverse, that anything else exists in the Fediverse other than Mastodon. It's the biggest because mainstream media, tech media and even Fediverse activists only ever talk about Mastodon, Mastodon, Mastodon. (Granted, it's also the biggest because it's the only one with an official phone app in the Apple App Store and the Google Play Store. Even though that app sucks.)

All these Mastodon users who claim that Mastodon is the best choice don't realise that they themselves did, in fact, not choose Mastodon. They didn't know they had a choice. All they were told about was Mastodon. Seriously, if they'd had a choice, they'd probably be on Sharkey now and not on Mastodon.

I've read what people had to say who moved from Friendica to Misskey. Or to now defunct Calckey/Firefish. Or to Sharkey. Or to Akkoma. All these are microblogging server applications in the Fediverse. But none of them are intentionally crippled to stay close to Twitter, at least not to such a degree as Mastodon.

It was nothing short of eye-opening to them. Only by daily-driving something else than Mastodon did they realise what the non-Mastodon Fediverse can be like. And how crippled Mastodon actually is. That Mastodon is far from being the absolute pinnacle in decentralised social media.

They no longer had only 500 characters. They had thousands of characters. They would have had thousands of characters on every server running that software without having to ask around which one has more than 500 characters. It felt like a restraint being removed which they had never considered a restraint, at least not that much of it.

They saw text formatting which they considered technologically absolutely impossible in the Fediverse when they were on Mastodon. In fact, they had considered text formatting entirely impossible while on Mastodon until they had come across the first message from outside with text formatting. Actual text formatting, not Unicode trickery. Now they suddenly saw a lot of the stuff that Mastodon's HTML sanitiser removes. And they themselves could use it!

If they were on one of the *keys, they no longer had a timeline of single-message piecemeal. For the first time ever, they experienced what it's like to have something else than single-message piecemeal. Namely entire conversations right in front of them, right away. Without having to dig for them first.

They had features which they had always wished the Fediverse may introduce. They never knew that the Fediverse does have these features, only Mastodon doesn't. They had features that were completely unimagiable to them in the Fediverse.

There are users who have moved from Mastodon to something "minimalist" and lightweight like snac or GoToSocial, often on self-hosted, single-user, private servers. Even they suddenly had features they didn't have on Mastodon. Mind you, while not missing a single Mastodon feature (except maybe for a built-in Web UI).

And that's just the microblogging side of the Fediverse. None of this is actual social networking. You know, what Facebook does.

First of all, if it's about following and being followed, it's social media. A social network doesn't have followers. In case you don't know, Facebook doesn't have followers. It has "friends". Bidirectional connections. Not 𝕏/Mastodon-like mutuals which are two connections, one in each direction, but one connection that goes both ways.

Besides, there are even more important social networking features missing from the microblogging side of the Fediverse.

Where are the contact suggestions? Where does Mastodon suggest new contacts based on how many contacts you have in common with them? Where does Mastodon suggest new contacts based on what profile information you have in common with them?

Oh, right, the latter is impossible because Mastodon doesn't have profile fields with defined purposes. In fact, where are these? Every good social network has them! But Mastodon only gives you four all-purpose profile fields (just like Mastodon only gives you four of everything, four file attachments, four options in polls...).

Where is the list of unread posts, unread comments and other unnoticed actions? How are you to make sure you really catch everything your friends do? Because you can't do that if all you have is a timeline to scroll through until you no longer see new stuff. If you manage to scroll down that far. And only absolute newbies can do that on Mastodon because they hardly follow anyone.

Where are groups? Seriously, I've lost count of how many times Mastodon users said "the Fediverse" must introduce something like Facebook Groups. The huge majority of Mastodon users is fully convinced that the Fediverse does not have groups in any shape or form because Mastodon doesn't have them.

Where are all these things? In the Fediverse, no less? Where are they?

I'll tell you where they are.

Friendica. Hubzilla. (streams). Forte.

The actual social networking side of the Fediverse (although Hubzilla is more like a social CMS or a "social Swiss army knife" that you can also use as a Facebook-like social networking application). I mean, I've already explained that Friendica was created in 2010 as a Facebook alternative. Not a faithful Facebook clone, though, but better than Facebook.

Mike Macgirvin took over from Facebook what social networks really need. And Farmville isn't that, and spying on your users and passing that data on to the NSA and selling it to the highest bidder isn't that, so he didn't take over that. He didn't want to build a clone that also adopts the bad sides just to be as close to the original as possible.

He took over the detailed profiles with profile fields with dedicated purposes. He took over profile privacy settings. In general, he took over a lot of privacy features. He took over advanced user discovery and connection suggestions. He took over bidirectional connections, only without that silly name "friends". He took over groups with moderation, only that a group on Friendica is just another account with a special automated reposter. He took over enclosed threaded conversations with one post at the top and otherwise only comments. He took over a "timeline" of full conversations as the default. He took over the event calendar. And so forth.

Instead, he added useful stuff on top. He gave Friendica all the posting features to make it fully capable of long-form blogging with all bells and whistles. No character limit (except for in the database, but I think that was over 65,000 back in the day already). All HTML text formatting features (only that Friendica only used BBcode back then; now it can optionally also use Markdown). A post/thread title. Summaries. Embedded images and other media with no limit in number. He even added a spoiler tag like in forums that can hide parts of a message.

He took care of privacy beyond what Facebook had to offer. He introduced a permissions system. Friendica got multiple profile per account, only one of which is public, so that you can show different sides of yourself to different connections.

Now, if you want to embed images or other media in your messages, you have to store them somewhere. And not everyone could be expected to set up a little file space somewhere. So he built a file space into Friendica, one that can even be used as a Dropbox alternative, all the way to restricted access to certain directories.

Mike also added a content warning system that automatically generates content warnings on the reader's side, based on a keyword list. If you need something behind content warnings, add the keywords to the list, and you'll have the respective content warnings, but the next user receiving the self-same post or comment does not have these content warnings if they don't need them.

One important part of what makes Friendica Friendica is being able to connect to a whole lot of stuff. For example, Friendica could federate with StatusNet via the OStatus protocol from the get-go; this is also how it immediately federated with Mastodon when the latter was launched. Mastodon generates an RSS feed, something that many users don't know. Friendica not only generates an Atom feed, but it can subscribe to feeds. Friendica can "federate" with e-mail. Over time, more and more connection features were added, including Tumblr, Twitter (!), Facebook (only for a few years before Facebook crippled it) and a WordPress cross-poster.

Lastly, he made it possible for third parties to add extra features by implementing an add-on system.

I dare those who are fully convinced that Mastodon is the best Facebook alternative possible to use Friendica for a year. Not only dip one toe in to the water, but use it as their one and only daily driver for everything they've used Mastodon for. Not scratching the surface and using it like Twitter while ignoring any and all features the Twitter they remember didn't have, but going all in. In fact, I dare those who are fully convinced that Mastodon is perfect and fully-featured to do the same.

And then there's Hubzilla. It came to exist by Mike forking Friendica in 2011, then forking that fork the same year, then rewriting that fork of a fork in 2012, then repurposing, rebranding, repositioning and greatly expanding it in 2015. Long story.

Hubzilla adds even more stuff on top. Most importantly, it introduced nomadic identity (https://joinfediverse.wiki/Nomadic_identity) in 2012.

Hubzilla, or its 2012 prototype form named Red, became the first decentralised social software that uncoupled the identity from the login. This was necessary for nomadic identity, but it also introduced the option to have multiple independent identities, basically what's an account elsewhere, on the same account, the same login. This makes sense, given the many different roles and purposes a Hubzilla channel can have. The big advantage over having multiple separate accounts is that you can switch between the channels on your account without logging out and back in.

Hubzilla, or its 2012 prototype form named Red, got an even more advanced and fine-grained permissions system. Hubzilla has 17 individual permissions on three levels, channel level, contact level, content level. At channel level, each one has seven or eight permission options to choose from, depending on whether or not it makes sense to give a permission to everyone on the Internet.

Mike added optional features to Hubzilla that were previously unseen on social anything, features that you'd rather expect from a CMS and maybe not even from that. Non-federating long-form articles. Planning cards that are based on these articles. Wikis that can be formatted with BBcode or Markdown. Webpages that can be formatted with BBcode, Markdown or HTML, that can include dynamic content from elsewhere on the channel, and that can add extra content to the channel pages.

Hubzilla can even act as groupware. It has a CalDAV calendar server; the event calendar can double as a crude UI for the CalDAV calendars. It has an optional CardDAV addressbook server. Its built-in file storage can be accessed via WebDAV, so you theoretically even have some cloud file space you can mount as a network drive. Rather recently, there was even a way found to tie Collabora Office into Hubzilla.

If you should ever read about Bonfire: Bonfire is Hubzilla ordered from Wish.com. Whatever Bonfire promises to have or to introduce has been available as a rock-solid stable feature on Hubzilla for over a decade. Bonfire only gets away with what it's trying to do because nobody knows Hubzilla.

I think it's safe to say that those who "chose" Mastodon didn't choose it over the rest of the Fediverse because it's better. They "chose" it because they didn't even know they have a choice.

As for your post, the technology for redeveloping socialising is there. And it certainly isn't Mastodon, and it never will be Mastodon. Mastodon can't be that due to its design philosophy, due to it being a Twitter clone, due to its own developers intentionally crippling it.

If you want to move on from 1-way interaction, you have to move on from 1-way connections. Move on from Twitter followers to Facebook friends.

You have to offer better options for the users than shouting into the void, attaching a bunch of hashtags and hoping that some of their followers or someone who is following one of the hashtags happens to be bothered to scroll down their timeline far enough.

You have to make sure that people don't miss content due to basic design and philosophy decisions. You have to make sure that people don't miss content because they simply never know that this content is there in the first place, because they can't scroll down far enough their timelines until they reach that content. You need something else than a timeline of single messages to scroll down with the user not having an idea just how far down that timeline goes. You have to tell the user how much unread content there is, what it is, where it is, and take the user directly to that unread content.

You have to stop presenting content to users as a long list of single posts and more single posts with only tiny details telling them that these posts are, in fact, part of a longer conversation which they don't see. Where they have to click or tap themselves through various UI pages to see that post in its context. Users must see the whole conversation Right. Off. The bat.

You need groups. Not kluged onto something that had no group support whatsoever two seconds earlier, not intentionally crippled, not crippled by the technology they're built upon, not intentionally re-invented to be incompatible with whatever already exists (and this is how Mastodon would do them). But fully functional, on an appropriate base, interoperable, user-moderated, optionally private, optionally hiding from directories.

If you want to go "social", you really have to go social. You have to go Facebook, not Twitter.

Users must find other users based on common interests. Or users living close to them. Or users with lots of contacts in common with them. Not by being on the same local/regional server of the same server about a certain topic. Not by searching for hashtags in the main profile text. But by examining specialised profile fields and the contacts.

Users must have such users suggested to them as new connections. Users must have such users at the top of their directory. This is how Facebook does it. And this is one thing that Facebook has always done right.

Again, Mastodon will never offer any of this. But that doesn't mean that you'll have to compromise and lower your expectations. Because you don't have to. There are server applications in the Fediverse, fully federated with Mastodon, that offer literally all of that. They exist right now. And some of them have existed for longer than Mastodon.

If you need something better than today's Mastodon, stop wishing for a better Mastodon. Instead, use something that's better and more appropriate for the job than Mastodon right now. For it exists right now.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #CharacterLimit #CharacterLimits #CharacterLimitMeta #CWCharacterLimitMeta #500Characters #CW #CWs #CWMeta #ContentWarning #ContentWarnings #ContentWarningMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #MastodonFediverse #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Privacy #Permission #Permissions #Groups #FediverseGroups #FediGroups #NomadicIdentity #MastodonCentricity #MastodonNormativity

@Roknrol Here are a few older alt-texts that I've written for original images of my own.

Digital shaded rendering of the main building of the Universal Campus, a downloadable island location for 3-D virtual worlds based on OpenSimulator. The camera position is about three metres or ten feet above the ground. The camera is tilted slightly upward and rotated slightly to the left from the building's longitudinal axis. The futuristic building is over 200 metres long, stretching far into the distance, and its front is about 50 metres wide. Its structure is mostly textured to resemble brushed stainless steel, and almost everything in-between is grey tinted glass. The main entrance of the building in the middle of the front has two pairs of glass doors. They are surrounded by a massive complex geometrical structure, very roughly reminiscent of a vintage video game spacecraft with the front facing upward. Four huge cylindrical pillars carry the roof end, the outer two of which extend beyond it. All are tilted away from the landing area in front of the building and at the same time outward to the sides. The sides of the building are slightly tilted themselves. In the distance, a large geodesic dome rises from the building. There is a large circular area in front of the main entrance as well as several wide paths. They have light concrete textures, and they are lined with low walls with almost white concrete textures. Furthermore, various shrubs and trees decorate the scenery. A more detailed description including explanations and text transcripts can be found in the post.

Digital rendering from OSgrid, one of the biggest out of thousands of 3-D virtual worlds based on OpenSimulator. It shows Juno Rowland, a female avatar, standing at the end of a wooden pier with the ocean in the background. The avatar is designed to resemble a woman who is no older than in her 30s. She is slim underneath loose-fitting clothes. She has light to medium-light skin, brown eyes and black hair which is styled as a neck-long bob. She is wearing a black tank top with the logo of the 17th birthday of OSgrid on it, a straight, lower-thigh-length, light-to-medium-light-brown denim miniskirt, a pair of black flat ballet shoes and a golden necklace with the OSgrid logo. The OSgrid logo is made up from five identical parallelograms arranged in a circular, star-like pattern. It is also part of the birthday logo which is mostly two tones of yellowish orange. The writing on the birthday logo reads, from top to bottom, “OSgrid”, “The Open Source Metaverse” and “17th Birthday”. A more detailed description of the image, including explanations, can be found in the post itself. If you are on Mastodon, Misskey or one of their forks, you can find it by opening the summary and content warning which includes, “CW: long (22,270 characters, including 20,377 characters of image descriptions), eye contact”, and then following the actual post text. If you are on Pleroma, Akkoma, another Pleroma fork, Friendica, Hubzilla or (streams), the full description will follow right after the images.

Digital rendering from OSgrid, one of the biggest out of thousands of 3-D virtual worlds based on OpenSimulator. It shows Juno Rowland, a female avatar, standing at the end of a wooden pier with the ocean in the background. The avatar is designed to resemble a woman who is no older than in her 30s. She is slim underneath loose-fitting clothes. She has light to medium-light skin and black hair which is styled as a neck-long bob. She is wearing a black tank top, a straight, lower-thigh-length, light-to-medium-light-brown denim miniskirt, a pair of black flat ballet shoes and a golden necklace. She is looking at the cover of the Leonard Cohen album Recent Songs on a white easel. The cover is a painting of the musician's face. He is shown to be a middle-aged man with light skin, green eyes and black hair in a black shirt. A hummingbird is drawn hovering above his shoulder to the left. The background is medium blue. Cohen's name and the album title are written in the top corners. A more detailed description of the image, including explanations, can be found in the post itself. If you are on Mastodon, Misskey or one of their forks, you can find it by opening the summary and content warning which includes, “CW: long (22,270 characters, including 20,377 characters of image descriptions), eye contact”, and then following the actual post text. If you are on Pleroma, Akkoma, another Pleroma fork, Friendica, Hubzilla or (streams), the full description will follow right after the images.

Good? Too long? Still not sufficiently detailed? If the latter, then rest assured: When the alt-text announces an additional, much longer image description in the message text, then there actually is one.

That is, nowadays, my goal is to limit my alt-texts to a maximum of 512 characters. That's because if a post with a longer alt-text arrives on Misskey or Iceshrimp-JS or Sharkey or another Misskey fork, then the alt-text is deleted without any trace. It will look like there has never been any alt-text to begin with.

When I post memes, it's usually easier to keep alt-texts shorter. The tricky part is to still have all the text transcripts in the alt-text because I only write one visual description for each of my meme images unless it's based on a virtual world rendering. I do give some explanations in my meme posts, though.

These two are very recent:

Image macro, based on a screen capture from the Disney and Pixar animated film Finding Nemo. At the top, there is a white space with a two-line caption: “OSgrid: offline for weeks to come,” and “Owners of other grids, looking at OSgrid residents:”. In the screen capture below, ten seagulls are perched on two mooring lines in the background. An eleventh seagull pokes its head into the image from the bottom right. They all look at the camera. Each one is labelled with the question, “Mine?”

Image macro, based on a screen capture from the animated film Finding Nemo. At the top, there is a white space with a two-line caption: “Fediverse admin: announces the end of their instance and asks their users to migrate to other instances,” and “Admins of other instances:”. In the screen capture below, ten seagulls are perched on two mooring lines. An eleventh seagull pokes its head into the image from the bottom right. They all look at the camera. Each one is labelled with the question, “Mine?”

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Misskey #Forkey #Forkeys #Iceshrimp #Iceshrimp-JS #Sharkey #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta

@caohuak @silverpill Well, to be honest, that crypto stuff doesn't have its bad rep entirely undeservedly. It appears to be used as a cash grab or for get-rick-quick schemes more often than not.

The massive gambling with the big cryptocurrencies Bitcoin and Ethereum that causes both to be highly volatile.

Gigantic Ethereum mining farms with countless high-end graphics cards that eat up more electricity than a bigger town, often even fossil or nuclear energy because there simply isn't enough renewable energy available where they're located.

NFT hypes. Masses of NFTs that were procedurally generated and sold for insane amounts of money. See Bored Apes. They've made a few people very rich with next to zero effort. Others have lost a lot of money because these NFTs are literally absolutely worthless today.

And this is a field that I'm pretty familiar with: The Metaverse. Mind you, I'm not talking about Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp and Threads. That isn't the Metaverse. I'm not talking about "the Metaverse" a.k.a. "the Meta Metaverse" a.k.a. "the Facebook Metaverse" a.k.a. "Zuckerberg's Metaverse" either which, by the way, is actually named Horizon.

No, I'm talking about cryptobros jumping upon the Metaverse bandwagon, hoping to squeeze some money out of it.

The blueprint of this all has to be a virtual world named Decentraland which was opened in February, 2020, just in time for the COVID-19 pandemic that caused real-life social interaction to grind to a complete halt and made virtual worlds the more popular.

In fact, it was a crypto platform before it became a virtual world. In 2017 already, its own cryptocurrency MANA, which is on the Ethereum blockchain, was first traded to raise money to get the world itself started. And even as a virtual world, it's a crypto platform because Decentraland is pretty much all about minting and selling NFTs.

Part of its concept is that deeds to parcels of land are minted as NFTs and then sold. And these parcels aren't even that big. Better yet, they were sold before they even existed as actual virtual land. Basically, Decentraland sold deeds to something that they yet had to make. But they got enough customers to bite, including big fashion brands, but also real-estate companies that scooped up land to sell it with a big profit.

Users, especially right-wing extremists, created avatars with slurs for names just to mint them as NFTs and sell them for a fortune. Nothing was done against it. I mean, the more NFTs were sold for MANA, the more MANA was traded, the more volatile it became, the higher profits one could make by trading it.

Decentraland advertises itself as "the first decentralised Metaverse". This is nonsense. Yes, it's "decentralised" in the sense that MANA is not running on the Bitcoin blockchain. Yes, it's also "decentralised" in the sense of being governed by a DAO.

But the virtual world system itself is a centralised, monolithic silo owned and operated by one and the same entity. The actual "first decentralised Metaverse" is made up of the worlds based on OpenSimulator from as early as 2007. This, by the way, is where I regularly am.

It's every bit as decentralised as any Fediverse software out there. As in, you can have an avatar in one world and teleport to another world, on another server, under another domain, owned and operated by other people, appearance, inventory and all. As in, the five developers, including only one actual coder, don't own anything beyond their own patches of land.

Another aspect that makes blatantly clear just how Decentraland is a crypto cash grab more than anything else: The actual world itself is buggy as hell. And precious little is done to fix these bugs. In fact, they don't even seem to matter because Decentraland is not about spending time in-world, which is why it's rather deserted and empty, but about minting, selling and buying NFTs.

As COVID brought with itself a virtual world boom from which even Second Life could profit, crypto-based virtual world started spreading. For example, The Sandbox had already been bought out, and it came back in March as a crypto-based world.

Hundreds of virtual worlds were at least announced in the early 2020s, all copying Decentraland's concept of minting deeds to virtual land as NFTs, backed by nothing more than an announcement and a promise, before even getting started with the actual virtual world. The latter was to be quickly and cheaply cobbled together using some 3-D game engine like Unity or Unreal Engine, neither of which is really fit for virtual worlds in which users can build stuff.

The best outcome was an actual virtual world which was barely in a functional state. It only existed for there to be something backing the NFTs. Oftentimes, the financial assets behind the world were kept in cryptocurrencies, hoping that they rise in value which would create more financial assets out of nothing. But when the cryptocurrency crashed, it became impossible to pay for the operation of the world or whatever employees it had. Crypto crashes kept killing crypto-based worlds left and right. It didn't help that most crypto-based virtual worlds used existing cryptocurrencies like Dogecoin.

In many other cases, however, there never was an actual virtual world to begin with. They never got it running. So their customers were sitting their with their expensive NFT land deeds and waiting for the actual land to be made. The longer it took for an announced virtual world to materialise, the harder it got to sell more NFT land deeds because the more unlikely it became that the actual land would ever exist. If plummeting land sales didn't put an end to the endeavour, the next crypto crash did.

I think there were even scammers among these cryptobros. They, too, announced a hot new crypto-based virtual world. They, too, started selling land deeds as NFTs. But they never had the intention to actually create and launch a virtual world. They sold shit-tons of NFTs for shit-tons of crypto money. Then they waited for the cryptocurrency to soar. If they were smart, they traded it all for millions in fiat money and made away with it to someplace offshore. If they weren't, if they wanted to keep on gambling, they, too, lost almost everything in a crypto crash.

Lastly: Around 2021/2022, many cryptobros staunchly insisted in virtual worlds absolutely requiring a blockchain, a cryptocurrency and NFTs for everything. According to them, it's technologically absolutely impossible to build virtual worlds without even only one of these. This was to keep people from getting interested (and invested) in non-crypto virtual worlds.

As a matter of fact, however, there are lots of virtual worlds that don't use a blockchain, that don't have a cryptocurrency, that don't have NFTs for anything. Second Life doesn't, and it never has since its launch in 2002. And Second Life still generates more revenue per user and month than Facebook, legally even.

OpenSim doesn't anywhere. Sansar didn't. High Fidelity didn't. Vircadia doesn't. Overte doesn't. Roblox doesn't. VRChat doesn't. Rec Room didn't. (Formerly Mozilla) Hubs doesn't. Horizon doesn't. Just to name a few. Some of these don't have any in-world payment system at all.

All these blatant lies, the total neglect of the actual virtual worlds and their misuse as a money printer don't really make me trust in crypto. Neither do the rampant gambling and the volatility.

Oh, and don't get me started about land prices in Decentraland vs Second Life vs OpenSim.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #VirtualWorlds #Metaverse #TheMetaverse #Decentraland #TheSandbox #Blockchain #Crypto #Cryptocurrency #Cryptocurrencies #NFT #NFTs #Cryptobros #Cryptomining #CryptoScam #CryptoCrash #NFTCrash

@Anya Karl Und gleichzeitig sind gefühlt sämtliche Alt-Text-Aktivisten genervt davon, wenn man darüber reden will, wie Bilder beschrieben werden sollen. Also nicht ob (weil jemand keinen Bock hat, Bilder zu beschreiben), sondern wie (weil jemand die eigenen Bildbeschreibungen bis zum Gehtnichtmehr optimieren und perfektionieren will).

Es heißt immer: "Nicht drüber labern, einfach machen!"

Aber wie zum Geier soll ich wissen, daß meine Bildbeschreibungen etwas taugen, wenn nicht nur Blinde und Sehbehinderte, sondern ganz besonders und allzuvorderst die Alt-Text-Aktivisten sich strikt weigern, mir zu erklären, wie eine gute Bildbeschreibung auszusehen hat? Was da die Mindeststandards gemäß Mastodon-Kultur sind? Oder was ihre eigenen Mindeststandards sind?

Ich stecke nun wirklich sehr viel Arbeit und Mühe und Hirnschmalz und vor allem Zeit in jede meiner Bildbeschreibungen. Meine eigenen Bilder beschreibe ich sogar jeweils zweimal, im Alt-Text und dann noch einmal sehr viel detaillierter im Post selbst mit Erklärungen und sämtlichen Text-Transkripten. Ein einziges Bild kann mich Stunden oder Tage kosten, und das ist kein Witz.

Woher soll ich wissen, ob das, was ich da schreibe, ausreichend ist oder tatsächlich noch nicht ausreichend oder maßlos übertrieben, wenn ich weder Feedback erhalte noch irgendjemand mit mir darüber reden will?

Statt dessen werde ich sowohl geblockt, wenn meine Bildbeschreibungen nicht optimal sind (möglicherweise auch, weil meine Bildposts dazu neigen, einige zigtausend Zeichen länger zu sein als das per Mastodon-Kultur vorgegebene fediverseweite Limit von 500 Zeichen), als auch, wenn ich darüber reden will, wie ich es richtig machen soll.

Und trotzdem wird von mir erwartet, daß ich das weiß. Ohne mir eine Chance zu geben, das in Erfahrung zu bringen.

Das "einfach" in "einfach machen" ist Blödsinn, wenn über einem das Damoklesschwert der persönlichen Angriffe und des massiven Reichweitenverlusts schwebt, wenn man es falsch macht.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #MastodonKultur #Zeichenlimit #Zeichenlimits #ZeichenlimitMeta #CWZeichenlimitMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #Bildbeschreibung #Bildbeschreibungen #BildbeschreibungenMeta #CWBildbeschreibungenMeta

@Der böse Hexe Njähähä 🧙‍♀️🪄⚡️ @Mina Es ist eben eine auf Mastodon weitverbreitete Fehlannahme, daß Mastodons Kultur die Kultur des ganzen Fediverse ist. Und daß Mastodons ungeschriebene Regeln im ganzen Fediverse gelten. Und falls nicht, dann hat dieser Zustand aber schnellstmöglich hergestellt zu werden.

Das liegt auch daran, daß auf Mastodon kaum jemand weiß, inwiefern das Nicht-Mastodon-Fediverse anders ist und anders funktioniert als Mastodon. Oder auch, daß es einige Sachen schon deutlich länger im Fediverse gibt als Mastodon. Daß das Fediverse eben nicht mit Mastodon anfing und auch nicht alles, was nicht Mastodon ist, als Extra nachträglich an Mastodon drangeklebt worden ist.

Im Grunde sind sich nur diejenigen dessen bewußt, die schon lange hauptsächlich oder ausschließlich etwas anderes benutzen als Mastodon. Vor allem die, die eben nicht von Twitter über Mastodon ins Fediverse gekommen sind.

Mastodon vs. Friendica

Das läßt sich sehr gut illustrieren im Vergleich zwischen Mastodon und Friendica. Mastodon ist eine puristische, spartanische Microblogging-Anwendung und versucht, ein Twitter-Klon zu sein. Friendica ist eine Social-Networking-Anwendung und Facebook-Alternative und gleichzeitig eine vollwertige Blogginganwendung mit allen Schikanen.

Mastodon ist von 2016. Friendica ist von 2010, gut fünfeinhalb Jahre älter als Mastodon. Als Mastodon startete, hat es sich mit Friendica verbunden und nicht umgekehrt.

Friendicas Kultur ist ungefähr so alt wie Friendica selbst. Mastodons Kultur, wie sie heute existiert, wurde dagegen geprägt Mitte 2022 von denjenigen, die im Februar und März von Twitter abgehauen sind, nachdem Elon Musk angekündigt hatte, es zu übernehmen.

Wagenburgmentalität vs. totale Föderation

Ein Killerfeature von Friendica war immer, daß es sich mit allen möglichen und unmöglichen Sachen verbinden kann. Mit dem ganzen Fediverse sowieso. Aber auch mit diaspora*, mit Tumblr, mit Libertree, theoretisch sogar mit Twitter, früher tatsächlich sogar mit Facebook, per E-Mail, crossposten nach WordPress geht auch und so weiter und so fort. Damit wirbt Friendica ja auch, daß das geht.

So war es schon immer ein bombenfester Teil von Friendicas Kultur, daß man Kontakte überall hat. Im ganzen Fediverse und über das Fediverse hinaus.

Im krassen Gegensatz dazu steht Mastodon, wo buchstäblich jeder, aber auch wirklich jeder Neuling lernt, daß es nur mit sich selbst verbunden ist. Es gibt Mastodon-Nutzer, die erst nach Jahren erfahren, daß das Fediverse nicht nur Mastodon ist und Mastodon mit noch ganz anderen Sachen verbunden ist.

Je länger es aber dauert, bis man das weiß, desto mehr gewöhnt man sich an ein reines Mastodon-Fediverse. Desto schwerer fällt es, sich an ein Nicht-nur-Mastodon-Fediverse zu gewöhnen. Desto eher will man sogar wirklich ein reines Mastodon-Fediverse haben.

Blöderweise wurde Mastodons aktuelle Kultur aufgebaut von Leuten, die selbst zu der Zeit glaubten, das Fediverse sei nur Mastodon. Sonst wäre Mastodons Kultur nämlich für den Rest des Fediverse offener. Und so ist in Mastodons Kultur quasi eingebrannt, daß alles, was nicht Mastodon ist, ein ungewollter Eindringling ist.

Wir waren zuerst da vs. wir waren wirklich zuerst da

Der Großteil der Mastodon-Nutzer glaubt, das Fediverse fing mit Mastodon an. Und so verhalten sie sich auch. Wir waren zuerst da, Mastodon war zuerst da, also ist Mastodon der Standard.

Die Friendica-Nutzer dagegen wissen, daß Friendica schon lange vor Mastodon da war. Viele Friendica-Nutzer sind ja selbst schon seit Zeiten dabei, als es Mastodon noch gar nicht gab. Folglich weigern sie sich, Mastodon als Ursprung des Fediverse anzuerkennen. Die meisten dürften nämlich wissen, daß der Ursprung des Fediverse StatusNet von 2008 war. Damit war Friendica übrigens auch verbunden.

500 Zeichen vs. gar kein Limit

Anderes Beispiel: Mastodon hat ein festgelegtes Zeichenlimit von 500. Jeder Mastodon-Neuling gewöhnt sich da erstmal dran. Wenn man dann erstmals über einen Beitrag stolpert, der länger ist, dann ist das zutiefst (ver)störend, vor allem, wenn man die offizielle Mastodon-Smartphone-App benutzt, die lange Beiträge nicht einklappen kann.

Folglich ist es auf Mastodon in die Kultur eingebrannt, daß Beiträge mit über 500 Zeichen schlecht sind. Und es ist eine ungeschriebene Regel auf Mastodon, Beiträge, die über 500 Zeichen lang sind, in Threads zu zerschneiden. Zugegeben, die meisten Mastodon-Nutzer haben eh keine andere Wahl.

Auf Friendica ist das ganz anders. Da gab es nie ein definiertes Zeichenlimit. Da sind die Leute es seit jeher gewohnt, soviel auf einmal zu posten, wie sie wollen und müssen. Folglich gehen einigen die zerschnipselten Beiträge von Mastodon gehörig auf die Nerven, weil das den Lesefluß stört.

Und so stehen auf der einen Seite Mastodon-Nutzer, die Friendica-Nutzer dazu zwingen wollen, Beiträge, die länger als 500 Zeichen sind, zu zerschneiden. Auf der anderen Seite stehen Friendica-Nutzer, die zum einen genau das eben nicht nötig haben und zum anderen Mastodon-Nutzern empfehlen, wenn sie öfters mal etwas Langes zu posten haben, an einen Ort im Fediverse umzuziehen, wo sie mehr als nur 500 Zeichen haben. Aber sie sollen um Gottes Willen aufhören mit dieser Schnipselei.

CWs vs. Zusammenfassungen plus NSFW

Noch ein Beispiel: das CW-Feld. Allgemeine Annahme auf Mastodon ist, daß es das so im ganzen Fediverse gibt und es somit auch Teil der Kultur im ganzen Fediverse ist, da vor potentiell verstörenden Inhalten zu warnen. Und das Feld im übrigen auch nur dafür zu nutzen.

Mastodon hat dieses Feld seit 2017.

Friendica hat dieses Feld seit 2010, seit es an den Start ging.

Aber: Auf Friendica war das nie ein CW-Feld. Auf Friendica war es schon immer und ist es heute noch ein Feld für Zusammenfassungen. Warum Zusammenfassungen? Weil es ziemlich viel Sinn ergibt, ein Feld für Zusammenfassungen zu haben, wenn man über 16 Millionen Zeichen auf einmal posten kann.

Und so ist in Friendicas Kultur eingebrannt, daß dieses Feld für Zusammenfassungen genutzt wird. Und nur für Zusammenfassungen.

Auf Mastodon ist genau dieser Sachverhalt derweil total unbekannt, auch weil kaum jemand auf Mastodon überhaupt weiß, daß Friendica existiert, und von denen, die das wissen, die meisten sich nicht vorstellen können, daß Friendica mit Mastodon verbunden ist. Also glaubt man, das Feld sei von Mastodon erfunden worden.

Aber wieso nur für Zusammenfassungen? Gibt's auf Friendica keine Inhaltswarnungen?

Doch. Aber die funktionieren völlig anders. Die werden nicht vom Autor eines Beitrags ausgestellt, sondern beim Leser vollautomatisch per Textfilter erzeugt. Auch das ist bombenfest in Friendicas Kultur eingebrannt, ebenso, daß man dann auch im Beitrag entsprechende Schlüsselwörter einbauen muß, damit das bei entsprechend sensiblen Lesern auch funktioniert.

Übrigens: Das kann auch Mastodon. Aber erst seit Oktober 2022, als Mastodons Kultur und Mastodons ungeschriebene Regeln schon in Stein gemeißelt waren. Und im übrigen wissen 99% von Mastodons Nutzern nicht, daß Mastodon das kann, und mindestens 80% nicht, daß Mastodon überhaupt Filter hat.

Folge:

• Mastodon-Nutzer werfen Friendica-Nutzern vor, keine CWs zu setzen und das CW-Feld zu mißbrauchen (weil die Friendica-Nutzer das CW-Feld entweder für Zusammenfassungen oder gar nicht benutzen).
• Friendica-Nutzer werfen Mastodon-Nutzern vor, das Zusammenfassungsfeld für irgendwelchen Blödsinn zu mißbrauchen (weil die Mastodon-Nutzer ihre kryptischen Inhaltswarnungen ins Zusammenfassungsfeld packen).
• Mastodon-Nutzer werfen Friendica-Nutzern vor, unsinnige und/oder zuviele Hashtags zu verwenden (weil die Friendica-Nutzer genau das als Hashtags eintragen, was sie eigentlich ins CW-Feld eintragen sollen).
• Friendica-Nutzer werfen Mastodon-Nutzern vor, keine Schlüsselwörter zum Auslösen von NSFW in ihre Beiträge einzubauen (weil die Mastodon-Nutzer gar nicht wissen, daß sowas irgendwo im Fediverse existiert).

Solange es Mastodon-Nutzer gibt, die das Fediverse für nur Mastodon halten, solange es Mastodon-Nutzer gibt, die Mastodon als alleiniges Maß aller Dinge ansehen, solange Mastodon-Nutzern beim Onboarding nichts vom übrigen Fediverse erzählt wird (der Einfachheit halber, oder weil diejenigen, die sie einladen, es auch nicht besser wissen), solange Mastodon-Nutzer Nicht-Mastodon-Nutzer systematisch diskriminieren und gleichzeitig vehement abstreiten, irgendjemanden zu diskriminieren, solange wird der Frust nicht abklingen.

Jetzt kann man natürlich als reiner Mastodon-Nutzer, basiert und mastodongepillt, ankommen und sagen: "Die Lösung liegt doch auf der Hand! Friendica muß mehr wie Mastodon werden. Nur 500 Zeichen, Zusammenfassungsfeld in CW-Feld umbenennen, dieses blöde NSFW abschaffen, alle Protokolle außer ActivityPub rausschmeißen, und alles wird gut!"

Tja, dann kommen aber die Friendica-Veteranen. Qua "wir waren schon gut fünfeinhalb Jahre vor euch hier" und qua "Friendica ist objektiv die bessere und leistungsfähigere Software und Mastodon eine künstlich funktionsreduzierte Krücke, die sich nur durch Propaganda, sektenmäßige Gehirnwäsche ihrer Nutzer und vorsätzliche Inkompatibilität mit dem übrigen Fediverse halten kann". Und sie sagen: "Mastodon sollte viel eher sein blödes Zeichenlimit abschaffen, das CW-Feld in das umbenennen, was es schon auf Identi.ca war, Unterstützung für in sich geschlossene Konversationen einführen, Gruppen nach etablierten Fediverse-Standards einführen, volles HTML-Rendering zulassen bis hin zu beliebig vielen eingebetteten Bildern mitten im Beitrag und auch dieses bräsige Folgen-und-Gefolgtwerden durch standardmäßig gegenseitige Verbindungen ersetzen. Dann wäre das ein Gewinn für das ganze Fediverse!"

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Zeichenlimit #Zeichenlimits #ZeichenlimitMeta #CWZeichenlimitMeta #CW #CWs #CWMeta #ContentWarning #ContentWarnings #ContentWarningMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #Friendica #NichtNurMastodon #MastodonKultur #MastodonZentrizität #MastodonNormativität

@Mina

Ich meine: So kompliziert ist das mit den Bildbeschreibungen auf Friendica ja auch nicht.

Ganz so straight-forward wie auf Mastodon ist es aber auch nicht. Und Friendica hat auch keine so vorbildlich detaillierte Dokumentation wie Hubzilla (wo das noch schwieriger ist).

Dazu kommt, daß Friendica immer noch zu einer gewissen Isolation von Mastodon neigt. Das wiederum kommt auch daher, daß ständig Mastodon-Nutzer Friendica-Nutzer dazu zwingen wollen, Friendicas Kultur über Bord zu werfen und statt dessen Mastodons Kultur anzunehmen. Wohlgemerkt, Friendicas Kultur ist mehr als ein Jahrzehnt älter als Mastodons Kultur und sehr viel besser an Friendicas Features angepaßt als Mastodons Kultur.

Wenn jetzt also ein Mastodon-Nutzer ankommt und von einem Friendica-Nutzer z. B. verlangt...

• seine "Tröts" auf maximal 500 Zeichen zu beschränken und längere "Tröts" in Threads zu zerschneiden
• das Abstraktfeld (das auf Friendica schon sieben Jahre länger ein Abstraktfeld ist als auf Mastodon ein CW-Feld) für CWs zu nutzen und nur für CWs und nicht für Zusammenfassungen
• gleichzeitig mit Extra-Hashtags nicht mehr dafür zu sorgen, daß Beiträge automatisch hinter leserseitig individuell generierten CWs versteckt werden (was auf Friendica schon zwölf Jahre länger geht als auf Mastodon und wovon auf Mastodon niemand weiß, daß es überhaupt geht)
• oder gar das Aussehen der Erwähnungen und Hashtags an den Mastodon-"Standard" anzupassen (was gar nicht geht, weil das auf Friendica hartgecodet ist)

...dann wird der Friendica-Nutzer definitiv nicht mitspielen. Wenn er schon dabei war, als es Mastodon noch gar nicht gab, erst recht nicht. Eher wird er dann großzügig diejenigen Mastodon-Nutzer blockieren, die ihn zu solchen Sachen zu zwingen versuchen. Ich kenne sogar jemanden auf Friendica, der jeden, der längere Beiträge in kurze Schnipsel zerschneidet, sofort und ohne Umschweife blockt.

Folglich wird der Friendica-Nutzer noch weniger davon mitbekommen, was auf Mastodon abgeht.

Weil es aber praktisch kein Zeichenlimit auf Friendica gibt, gibt es natürlich auch die super-simple Variante, die Beschreibung einfach in den Text des Posts zu setzen.

Kann man machen. Dann riskiert man aber, auf den Deckel zu kriegen, weil es im Alt-Text keine adäquate (= garantiert handgeschriebene, 100% akkurate und hinreichend detaillierte) Bildbeschreibung gibt.

Früher war es ja auch noch so, daß Mastodon hinter CWs nur den Post-Text verbarg, nicht aber das Bild. Wenn man ein Bild gepostet hat mit CW, dann konnten Mastodon-Nutzer nicht auf den ersten Blick sehen, daß im Post eine Bildbeschreibung ist. Damit gerechnet haben sie auch nicht, weil sie sich nicht vorstellen konnten, daß jemand eher die 500 Zeichen im "Tröt" für die Bildbeschreibung nimmt als die 1500 im Alt-Text, und auch nicht gesehen haben, daß der Post von Friendica kam und eben nicht von Mastodon. Also gingen sie davon aus: Wenn im Alt-Text keine Bildbeschreibung ist, dann ist da gar keine.

Inzwischen hat Mastodon das für sein Web-Frontend geändert. Ich glaube aber, es dürfte immer noch etliche Smartphone-Apps geben, die Bilder nicht hinter CWs verstecken.

Genau deswegen beschreibe ich meine eigenen Bilder auch immer zweimal: einmal sehr umfangreich im Post selbst und dann noch einmal zusätzlich im Alt-Text. Dabei reize ich im Alt-Text die 1500 Zeichen aus, die Mastodon bietet (weil Mastodon längere Alt-Texte abschneidet), auch wenn ich selbst im Grunde auch für Alt-Texte kein Zeichenlimit habe (ich selbst bin auf Hubzilla und poste meine Bilder auf (streams)). Im Post brauche ich mir über Zeichenlimits keinen Kopf zu machen.

Gut, eigentlich müßte ich die Alt-Texte auf 512 Zeichen beschränken, weil Misskey und die Forkeys längere Alt-Texte gänzlich löschen. Aber zumindest Misskey schneidet lange Posts bei ca. 8000 Zeichen ab, und die Forkeys werden ähnlich funktionieren. Das heißt, *key-Nutzer werden so oder so meine Posts an der Quelle lesen, denn 8000 Zeichen reichen mir nicht für einen Bildpost (außer vielleicht, wenn es ein Meme ist).

CC: @Der böse Hexe Njähähä 🧙‍♀️🪄⚡️

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Zeichenlimit #Zeichenlimits #ZeichenlimitMeta #CWZeichenlimitMeta #CW #CWs #CWMeta #ContentWarning #ContentWarnings #ContentWarningMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #Bildbeschreibung #Bildbeschreibungen #BildbeschreibungenMeta #CWBildbeschreibungenMeta #FediverseKultur #MastodonKultur #Mastodon #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams)

@⚝ Mirko ⚝

die Adminbubble dort ist sehr viel ausgeglichener und lässt vor allem andere Plattformen in Ruhe.

Mindestens die Hälfte von denen weiß doch gar nicht, daß es auch noch andere Fediverse-Serveranwendungen gibt. Für die ist das Fediverse gleich Mastodon. Und von denen, die das wissen, wissen die allermeisten nicht, was die anderen Anwendungen können.

Warum hat die "Mastodon-Community" beispielsweise nie gefordert, Pleroma, Akkoma, Misskey, die Forkeys, Friendica, Hubzilla usw. zu deföderieren, weil die alle in der Lage sind, jeden öffentlichen Mastodon-Tröt widerstandslos zu quote-posten? Weil auf Mastodon praktisch niemand weiß, daß die dazu in der Lage sind. Wüßten die das, hätten sie längst die Messer gewetzt und die totale Deföderation gefordert.

Außerdem wird man auf diesen Serveranwendungen immer wieder von Mastodon-Nutzern diskriminiert oder gar attackiert. Man soll sich gefälligst an die "Fediverse-Kultur", will sagen, Mastodon-Kultur halten (was impliziert, daß man die eigene Kultur über Bord werfen soll). Man soll niemals mehr als 500 Zeichen posten. Man soll "alle notwendigen" CWs ins CW-Feld eintragen (also Friendicas Abstrakt-Feld bzw. Hubzillas Zusammenfassungsfeld) und es gar keinen Fall für irgendetwas anderes benutzen. Und so weiter.

Derweil beharren praktisch alle Mastodon-Nutzer darauf, daß das nie passiert. Weil sie nie mitbekommen, daß das passiert. Ihnen selbst passiert es ja nicht, weil sie sich als Mastodon-Nutzer eh an die Mastodon-Kultur halten, eh nicht mehr als 500 Zeichen haben, das CW-Feld nur als CW-Feld kennen usw. Und wenn es ihnen nicht passiert, dann sind sie der felsenfesten Überzeugung, daß es gar nicht passiert.

Das Nicht-Mastodon-Fediverse widersetzt sich ständig Mastodons Kultur und bricht ständig Mastodons ungeschriebene Regeln. Die allermeisten Mastodon-Nutzer wissen aber nicht, daß das passiert, ganz einfach, weil sie davon nichts mitbekommen. Dasselbe gilt auch für die allermeisten Mastodon-Admins.

Mastodon stellt im Fediverse irgendwo zwischen 60 und 70% der monatlich aktiven Nutzer. Aus irgendwelchen Gründen aber kommen gefühlt über 98% des Post-Aufkommens auf Mastodon von Mastodon selbst. Du kannst 4 Jahre auf Mastodon sein, 1000 Konten folgen und dich trotzdem in einer reinen Vanilla-Mastodon-Blase bewegen und erst nach diesen 4 Jahren deinen allerersten Beitrag mit über 500 Zeichen zu Gesicht bekommen. Wenn überhaupt.

Mastodon-Admins sind gegenüber dem Rest des Fediverse nicht deshalb so entspannt, weil das, was Pleroma, Misskey, Friendica usw. nach Mastodon schicken, für sie okay ist. Sondern, weil sie gar nicht wissen, was Pleroma, Misskey, Friendica usw. nach Mastodon schicken und viele von denen nie auch nur irgendwas von diesen anderen Anwendungen gehört haben. Sonst wären tausende von denen an vorderster Front mit dabei, wenn es darum geht, alles, was nicht Mastodon ist, auf Mastodon zu blockieren, das kannst du mir mal glauben.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteTröt #QuoteTröts #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares #QuotePostDebatte #QuoteTrötDebatte #CW #CWs #CWMeta #ContentWarning #ContentWarnings #ContentWarningMeta #ZeichenLimit #Zeichenlimits #ZeichenlimitMeta #CWZeichenlimitMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #NichtNurMastodon #FediverseKultur #MastodonKultur #MastodonRegeln

@GunChleoc @GunChleoc @ltning @Hannah Grace @beemoh @Lucien Maybe it's also worth taking a look at (streams) and Forte, both created and still maintained by the same guy who invented Friendica and Hubzilla.

In terms of privacy, security and self-moderation, they're at least on par with Hubzilla, and they're both nomadic like Hubzilla. UX-wise, they're more streamlined, especially permissions settings, and more geared towards today's Fediverse. Their learning curve is somewhere between Friendica and Hubzilla, but mostly because they default towards privacy rather than everything being public.

However, (streams) has only got a very very few public, open-registration servers and not a single working one in Europe at all anymore. It can't be crawled either, so FediDB, Fediverse Observer and FediIndex don't list its servers. And Forte doesn't have any public, open-registration servers whatsoever currently.

Maybe it's also important to know that their code is hosted by Codeberg in Berlin, but the developer is in Australia.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Facebook #FacebookAlternative #FacebookAlternatives #FacebookReplacement #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte

@Ferdinand Soethe Kommt drauf an.

Gewisse Dinge von Friendica kann auch Mastodon (zumindest die Weboberfläche) 1:1 darstellen:

• Zusammenfassungen (zeigt Mastodon als CW)
• Stichpunktlisten
• Fettschrift
• Kursivschrift
• Unterstreichung

• Überschriften

  Überschriften

  Überschriften

  Überschriften

  Überschriften

  Überschriften

  (ich weiß allerdings nicht, bis zu welchem Level)

• Zitate (gemeint sind klassische Forumszitate, nicht das, was Mastodon mit 4.6 eingeführt hat)

• Inline-Code

• mehrzeilige
  Code-Blöcke

Was davon jetzt welche App darstellen kann, entzieht sich meiner Kenntnis. Möglicherweise gibt es immer noch Mastodon-Apps, die noch zu Mastodon-3-Zeiten entwickelt worden sind und überhaupt keine Textformatierung darstellen können.

Außerdem akzeptiert Mastodon meines Wissens Posts mit bis zu 100.000 Zeichen (inklusive Zusammenfassung/CW). Wenn sie länger werden, nimmt Mastodon sie gar nicht erst an. Zum Vergleich: Friendicas Zeichenlimit liegt bei 16.777.215, begrenzt durch die maximale Größe des Datenfelds für den Post-Text in der Datenbank. Mastodons Weboberfläche und die meisten Apps rollen lange Posts ein, nur Mastodons offizielle Smartphone-App kann das nicht und stellt lange Posts immer in voller Länge dar.

Es gibt aber sehr viel, was Mastodon nicht übernimmt. Das fängt bei Bildern an. Mastodon-Nutzer nehmen es zwar nicht so wahr, aber Mastodon ist, was Bilder angeht, sehr eingeschränkt, und zwar in zweierlei Hinsicht. Zum einen kann es Bilder nur als Dateianhänge handhaben, zum anderen nur maximal vier davon.

Warum das eingeschränkt ist? Weil Friendica wie ein Blog oder eine Website Bilder mitten in den Post einbetten kann und noch dazu theoretisch unbegrenzt viele davon.

Wenn Mastodon aber so einen Post bekommt, wirft Mastodons HTML-"Sanitiser" erstmal alle eingebetteten Bilder aus dem Post raus. Genau deshalb hängt Friendica (wie auch seine Nachfahren) eingebettete Bilder zusätzlich als Dateianhänge an den Post an. Von denen wiederum übernimmt Mastodon die ersten vier und schmeißt die anderen ersatzlos weg.

Es gibt noch einiges mehr an Textformatierung, was Mastodons "Sanitiser" nicht durchgehen läßt (nicht 100% sicher, was davon jetzt Friendica erzeugen kann; dieser Kommentar kommt von Hubzilla):

• Listen mit Zahlen oder Buchstaben (werden zu Stichpunktlisten vereinfacht)
• möglicherweise Durchstreichung
• Code mit Texthervorhebung je nach Programmiersprache
• Schrifttypen
• großer und kleiner Text
• farbiger Text
• farbig hervorgehobener Text
• Spoiler spoiler

  Spoiler

• horizontale Linien

Auch wenn ein Post einen Titel hat, kommt der nach Mastodon normalerweise nicht mit. Wohlgemerkt, und das wissen die meisten Mastodon-Nutzer nicht: Titel und Zusammenfassung sind zwei separate Felder. Den Titel ignoriert Mastodon, die Zusammenfassung zeigt Mastodon als CW.

Allerdings: Standardmäßig verschickt Friendica Posts mit Titel nicht als Note-Type Objects (entsprechend Mikroblogging-Posts, also wie Mastodon-Tröts), sondern als Article-Type Objects (entsprechend Blogposts). Die wiederum stellt Mastodon dar mit dem Titel, der Zusammenfassung und einem Link zum Original.

Wenn man als Mastodon-Nutzer den Post lesen will, wird man den Link öffnen und den Post an seinem Ursprung lesen müssen. Dann sieht man den Post so, wie er eigentlich gedacht war, mit Titel und aller Formatierung und allen Bildern da, wo sie hingehören. Aber man kann ihn eben nicht in der Mastodon-Timeline und auch nicht in der Mastodon-App lesen, sondern wenn man eine App benutzt, öffnet sich der Browser.

(Mastodon-Nutzer sollten übrigens diesen Kommentar mal im Original öffnen, auch wenn er auf Hubzilla statt auf Friendica ist.)

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Mastodon #Friendica #Zeichenlimit #Zeichenlimits #ZeichenlimitMeta #CWZeichenlimitMeta #Textformatierung

@ErklaerKroete Mein Problem ist jetzt: Wer definiert, ob eins meiner Bilder eine Stimmung vermittelt? Will sagen, wer definiert, ob ich die Stimmung meines Bildes in Worte fassen muß? Ganz alleine ich als derjenige, der das Bild postet, oder mein Publikum als diejenigen, die es wahrnehmen?

Mein Publikum, das könnte jeder der über zehn Millionen Fediverse-Nutzer und im Prinzip jeder im ganzen Web sein. Und wenn für irgendjemanden irgendwo da draußen eins meiner Bilder eine Stimmung vermittelt, dann habe ich die womöglich zu beschreiben, ganz egal, ob es nie meine Intention war, eine Stimmung mit einem meiner Bilder zu vermitteln.

Ich bin jemand, der Bildbeschreibungen sehr ernstnimmt und die ihm gegebenen Möglichkeiten dafür auch ausreizt, z. B. mein im Grunde gar nicht vorhandenes Zeichenlimit. Ich "studiere" Bildbeschreibungen, Alt-Texte und ihre Kultur im Fediverse seit Jahren eingehend, nur um meine eigenen Bildbeschreibungen immer weiter zu optimieren. Folglich betrachte ich alle meine heutigen Beschreibungen eigener Bilder als mehr oder weniger veraltet und suboptimal, weil ich seitdem dazugelernt habe.

Und wenn ich zu dem Schluß komme, bestimmte Bilder müssen bis ins kleinste Detail beschrieben werden, jedes bißchen Text in diesen Bildern muß 1:1 aufs Zeichen genau transkribiert werden, und wenn irgendetwas unbekannt ist, muß ich es bis auf die Grundlagen erklären, dann mache ich das auch alles, egal, wie lang die Bildbeschreibung dann wird, und egal, wieviel Zeit dafür draufgeht.

Ich habe eine Reihe von Bildern, die habe ich schon 2024 gemacht, die sind bis heute ungepostet, weil die Bildbeschreibungen noch nicht fertig sind. Das ist auch gut so, weil ich das Geschriebene zwischendurch noch einmal überarbeiten, aktualisieren und verständlicher formulieren mußte.

Das heißt, den Inhalt eines Bildes zu beschreiben und zu erklären, ist schon ein gigantischer Aufwand für mich. Ich hätte einmal fast schon angefangene Bildbeschreibungen wieder gelöscht und die Bilder selbst verworfen, weil ich nicht wußte, wie ich Bilder von Weltraumnebeln in diesen Bildern nach meinen eigenen Standards adäquat hätte beschreiben sollen. Ich habe einige schöne Bilder gemacht, werde sie aber nie posten, weil ich sie nicht beschreiben kann.

Beispiele für Bildposts von mir inklusive mit jeweils zwei Beschreibungen pro Bild ("kurz" im Alt-Text + sehr lang im Post) in umgekehrter chronologischer Reihenfolge:

• https://streams.elsmussols.net/item/b6ae326a-c207-46dd-836b-6bc2b6a3509c
• https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/f8ac991d-b64b-4290-be69-28feb51ba2a7
• https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/136f021c-06cb-4e38-abe6-2bf37fd521d8
• https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/c8a14063-b4e2-48fa-baf9-cb4faef7225b
• https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/8c2b4728-dda5-498b-9f84-2f11e163a4a5

Bei Memes gehe ich nicht so extrem vor, weil meine Memeposts immer auf etablierten Templates basieren. Es gibt nur eine visuelle Bildbeschreibung, und die ist im Alt-Text. Aber im Post gibt es immer Erklärungen für alles, von dem ich annehmen muß, daß genügend Leute im Fediverse damit nicht vertraut genug sind, um sie ohne Erklärungen zu verstehen. Wenn ich auf Erklärungen verlinken kann, tue ich das, sonst schreibe ich sie selbst.

Einmal habe ich auf die gehört, die sagen, Erklärungen dürfen nicht verlinkt werden, sie gehören direkt in den Post. Das Ergebnis war ein Memepost mit neun Erklärungen in fast 25.000 Zeichen: https://streams.elsmussols.net/item/8829de04-af65-4fa5-a6fa-438103c7d6c8. Danach habe ich damit wieder aufgehört und statt dessen verlinkt, was zu verlinken ging. Alleine in diesem Post hätte ich mit einem einzigen Link auf KnowYourMeme sechs Erklärungen und die Hälfte der Zeichen einsparen können.

Ich arbeite sogar an einem englischsprachigen Wiki zum Thema Bildbeschreibungen und Alt-Texte im Fediverse. Das wird, wenn es fertig ist, weit über 40, wahrscheinlich über 50 Einzelartikel haben. Im Grunde würde das, was du geschrieben hast, noch einmal einen eigenen Artikel brauchen, aber soweit bin ich noch gar nicht.

Einige mögen vielleicht sagen, ich nehme Bildbeschreibungen viel zu ernst und zerdenke sie komplett.

Würdest du sagen, ich tue das jetzt wieder, oder würdest du sagen, was ich im ersten Absatz denke, ist absolut gerechtfertigt?

Zu guter Letzt: Mir hat mal eine neurodivergente Person (@Hat.  AuDHD cat 😷🌺🍉🌻🔻) gesagt, daß meine monströsen Langbeschreibungen nicht nur nützlich, sondern im Falle dieser Person auch zum Bildverständnis zwingend notwendig sind.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Zeichenlimit #Zeichenlimits #ZeichenlimitMeta #CWZeichenlimitMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #Bildbeschreibung #Bildbeschreibungen #BildbeschreibungenMeta #CWBildbeschreibungenMeta

@BitHive :python: Fediverse-Serversoftware für "Microblogging" (https://joinsharkey.org/). Ein Fork von Misskey, das aus Japan kommt (https://misskey-hub.net/de/).

Im Prinzip so etwas wie Mastodon und auch mit Mastodon voll verbunden, d. h. Mastodon-Nutzer können Misskey- und Sharkey-Nutzern folgen und umgekehrt und mit ihnen kommunizieren. Aber Misskey ist um einiges mächtiger und reicher an Features als Mastodon, und Sharkey ist noch einmal mächtiger und reicher an Features als Misskey.

So haben beide ein Zeichenlimit von 3000 Zeichen, wo Mastodon nur 500 hat. Und auf Sharkey ist es dann auch noch konfigurierbar, ohne wie bei Mastodon die Software selbst umbauen zu müssen.

(An dieser Stelle bräuchte es eigentlich eine Mastodon/Misskey/Sharkey-Featurevergleichstabelle wie meine Mastodon/Friendica/Hubzilla/(streams)/Forte-Featurevergleichstabelle (https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/0a75de76-eb27-4149-b708-f20b2f79d392).)

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Zeichenlimit #Zeichenlimits #ZeichenlimitMeta #CWZeichenlimitMeta #Misskey #Sharkey

@warzazel Willkommen im Nicht-nur-Mastodon-Fediverse.

Wo es Sachen mit über 16,7 Millionen Zeichen schon Jahre länger gibt als Mastodon mit seinen 500 Zeichen.

Wo es Sachen gibt, die sich Mastodon nie unterordnen werden.

Das war schon immer so, und das wird sich auch nicht ändern. Finde dich also damit ab.

Schönen Gruß von Hubzilla.

#FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #NichtNurMastodon #Zeichenlimit #Zeichenlimits #ZeichenlimitMeta #CWZeichenlimitMeta

@Robert Frank Wenn man selbst nur Mastodon nutzt, fühlt es sich piepschnurzegal an. Dann nimmt man eh das ganze Fediverse als nur Mastodon wahr und die Unterschiede zwischen Mastodon und Nicht-Mastodon fast überhaupt nicht.

Wenn man selbst aber etwas ganz anderes im Fediverse nutzt als Mastodon, dann ist es immens wichtig.

Ich selbst bin nicht auf Mastodon. Ich bin auf Hubzilla (https://hubzilla.org, https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubzilla, https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/0a75de76-eb27-4149-b708-f20b2f79d392). Das funktioniert völlig anders als Mastodon, das hat ein völlig anderes Konzept als Mastodon, das wird von Mastodon völlig unabhängig entwickelt. Es hat Features, die auf Mastodon unvorstellbar sind. Noch dazu ist es zehn Monate älter als Mastodon. Es geht sogar zurück auf Friendica, das mehr als fünfeinhalb Jahre älter ist als Mastodon.

Aber wie du mit eigenen Augen sehen kannst, kann ich Mastodon-Tröts nicht nur empfangen, sondern auch von Hubzilla aus kommentieren.

Wenn jemand das komplette Fediverse meint, es aber "Mastodon" nennt, dann meint er mich zwar damit, spricht mich aber nicht an. Ich bin ja nicht auf Mastodon.

Wenn jemand einen meiner Posts oder Kommentare als "Tröt" bezeichnet in der Annahme, ich sei auch auf Mastodon, dann ist beides sachlich falsch.

Wenn jemand sich wünscht, "das Fediverse" möge endlich ein bestimmtes Feature einführen, nur weil Mastodon es nicht hat, dann kann ich mir nur vor den Kopf schlagen. In den allermeisten Fällen hat Hubzilla genau dieses Feature schon zehn Monate länger, als es Mastodon überhaupt gibt. Sehr häufig hat Friendica dieses Feature schon etliche Jahre länger, als es Mastodon überhaupt gibt. Das Fediverse hat dieses Feature also. Mastodon hat es nicht, aber das Fediverse hat es.

Wenn jemand dagegen ist, daß "das Fediverse" ein bestimmtes Feature einführt, dem sei gesagt: Höchstwahrscheinlich hat das Fediverse dieses Feature schon. Mastodon nicht, aber das Fediverse. Denn höchstwahrscheinlich hatten Friendica und Hubzilla es schon immer, also auch wieder länger, als es Mastodon überhaupt gibt.

Am besten war noch der Widerstand gegen Quote-Posts. "Das Fediverse" sollte die auf gar keinen Fall einführen, sagten einige. Der Witz: Pleroma, Akkoma, Misskey, Calckey, Firefish, CherryPick, Sharkey, Iceshrimp, Catodon, GoToSocial, Mitra, Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams), Forte usw., sie alle haben Quote-Posts. Und zwar schon länger, als es diese Debatte auf Mastodon überhaupt gibt. Und sie alle (außer GoToSocial) können widerstandslos jeden, aber auch wirklich jeden Mastodon-Tröt quote-posten.

Oder damals der Widerstand gegen Volltextsuche. Auf gar keinen Fall sollte "das Fediverse" Volltextsuche haben. Nur hatte das Fediverse schon längst Volltextsuche: Friendica war schon im Mai 2010 mit eingebauter Volltextsuche an den Start gegangen.

Ach ja: Zeichenlimits. Wer "Mastodon" und "Fediverse" gleichsetzt, für den hat auch das Fediverse ein festgelegtes Limit von 500 Zeichen. Friendica und Hubzilla hatten aber nie wirklich Zeichenlimits. In deren Kultur kommen auch keine Zeichenlimits vor. Aktuell haben sie übrigens ein "Limit" von über 16,7 Millionen Zeichen. Bis auf Threads hat alles im Fediverse ein sehr viel höheres Zeichenlimit als Mastodon. Entsprechend kriegen Nicht-Mastodon-Nutzer ständig auf den Deckel, wenn sie das angeblich von Gargron für das ganze Fediverse festgeschriebene Limit von 500 Zeichen überschreiten.

Also: Das Fediverse ist nicht nur Mastodon. Das Fediverse war auch nie nur Mastodon. Das Fediverse ist nicht nur ein Twitter-Klon. Das Fediverse hat sehr viel mehr Features als Mastodon. Und das Fediverse hat auch nicht überall dieselbe Kultur und wird sie auch nie haben.

CC: @Knust @Katharina Nocun

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteTröt #QuoteTröts #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #Zeichenlimit #Zeichenlimits #ZeichenlimitMeta #CWZeichenlimitMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #NichtNurMastodon #Pleroma #Akkoma #Misskey #Calckey #Firefish #CherryPick #Sharkey #Iceshrimp #Catodon #GoToSocial #Mitra #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #MastodonZentrizität #MastodonNormativität