#mastodonfediverse — Public Fediverse posts
Live and recent posts from across the Fediverse tagged #mastodonfediverse, aggregated by home.social.
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@Truth & Answers Let me be honest: Mastodon isn't the right thing to rely on for this.
There are two common misconceptions on Mastodon about Mastodon. The first one is that Mastodon is the only free, non-commercial, non-corporate, decentralised social anything. Once Mastodon users are over this, they still think Mastodon is the best free, non-commercial, non-corporate, decentralised social anything.
I've seen Mastodon being advertised by users as a Fediverse alternative to literally everything, including Reddit (because, like, you can communicate, right?) and even YouTube (because, like, you can upload videos, right?).
But again, let me be honest: The only thing that Mastodon can hope to be an alternative to is 𝕏. Because it's a Twitter clone. A purist Twitter clone whose developers intentionally reject feature requests because the requested features don't fit into their image of purist, minimalist, old-school, original-gangsta microblogging. They want to keep Mastodon a slightly more glorified SMS than 𝕏.
Mastodon isn't even the only microblogging server application in the Fediverse. It isn't even the best at that. 80-90% of Mastodon's users don't and probably will never realise that Mastodon is an intentionally crippled resource hog. Many believe that Mastodon is the fully-featured be-all, end-all of social networking.
By the way, even the Mastodon developers claim that Mastodon is fully featured. I've had a Mastodon dev try hard to convince me that Mastodon is fully featured although I've told him that I'm on Hubzilla. He essentially tried to tell me that Mastodon has every last feature that Hubzilla has plus even more on top.
In reality, Mastodon isn't the fully-featured be-all, end-all of social networking. It isn't even a social network. It's social media, just like 𝕏 is social media. It's designed for pumping out content and being followed because it's designed as a Twitter-like microblogging application. And it isn't even the best at microblogging.
Almost everyone on Mastodon is fully convinced that Mastodon has to be the best. After all, it's the biggest. It's what everyone chose.
No.
Mastodon is the biggest because everyone who wants to leave 𝕏 or Threads or Bluesky is railroaded to Mastodon. It's the biggest because all the newbies are only told about Mastodon. It's the biggest because none of the newbies even learn upon on-boarding that other 𝕏 alternatives exist in the Fediverse, that anything else exists in the Fediverse other than Mastodon. It's the biggest because mainstream media, tech media and even Fediverse activists only ever talk about Mastodon, Mastodon, Mastodon. (Granted, it's also the biggest because it's the only one with an official phone app in the Apple App Store and the Google Play Store. Even though that app sucks.)
All these Mastodon users who claim that Mastodon is the best choice don't realise that they themselves did, in fact, not choose Mastodon. They didn't know they had a choice. All they were told about was Mastodon. Seriously, if they'd had a choice, they'd probably be on Sharkey now and not on Mastodon.
I've read what people had to say who moved from Friendica to Misskey. Or to now defunct Calckey/Firefish. Or to Sharkey. Or to Akkoma. All these are microblogging server applications in the Fediverse. But none of them are intentionally crippled to stay close to Twitter, at least not to such a degree as Mastodon.
It was nothing short of eye-opening to them. Only by daily-driving something else than Mastodon did they realise what the non-Mastodon Fediverse can be like. And how crippled Mastodon actually is. That Mastodon is far from being the absolute pinnacle in decentralised social media.
They no longer had only 500 characters. They had thousands of characters. They would have had thousands of characters on every server running that software without having to ask around which one has more than 500 characters. It felt like a restraint being removed which they had never considered a restraint, at least not that much of it.
They saw text formatting which they considered technologically absolutely impossible in the Fediverse when they were on Mastodon. In fact, they had considered text formatting entirely impossible while on Mastodon until they had come across the first message from outside with text formatting. Actual text formatting, not Unicode trickery. Now they suddenly saw a lot of the stuff that Mastodon's HTML sanitiser removes. And they themselves could use it!
If they were on one of the *keys, they no longer had a timeline of single-message piecemeal. For the first time ever, they experienced what it's like to have something else than single-message piecemeal. Namely entire conversations right in front of them, right away. Without having to dig for them first.
They had features which they had always wished the Fediverse may introduce. They never knew that the Fediverse does have these features, only Mastodon doesn't. They had features that were completely unimagiable to them in the Fediverse.
There are users who have moved from Mastodon to something "minimalist" and lightweight like snac or GoToSocial, often on self-hosted, single-user, private servers. Even they suddenly had features they didn't have on Mastodon. Mind you, while not missing a single Mastodon feature (except maybe for a built-in Web UI).
And that's just the microblogging side of the Fediverse. None of this is actual social networking. You know, what Facebook does.
First of all, if it's about following and being followed, it's social media. A social network doesn't have followers. In case you don't know, Facebook doesn't have followers. It has "friends". Bidirectional connections. Not 𝕏/Mastodon-like mutuals which are two connections, one in each direction, but one connection that goes both ways.
Besides, there are even more important social networking features missing from the microblogging side of the Fediverse.
Where are the contact suggestions? Where does Mastodon suggest new contacts based on how many contacts you have in common with them? Where does Mastodon suggest new contacts based on what profile information you have in common with them?
Oh, right, the latter is impossible because Mastodon doesn't have profile fields with defined purposes. In fact, where are these? Every good social network has them! But Mastodon only gives you four all-purpose profile fields (just like Mastodon only gives you four of everything, four file attachments, four options in polls...).
Where is the list of unread posts, unread comments and other unnoticed actions? How are you to make sure you really catch everything your friends do? Because you can't do that if all you have is a timeline to scroll through until you no longer see new stuff. If you manage to scroll down that far. And only absolute newbies can do that on Mastodon because they hardly follow anyone.
Where are groups? Seriously, I've lost count of how many times Mastodon users said "the Fediverse" must introduce something like Facebook Groups. The huge majority of Mastodon users is fully convinced that the Fediverse does not have groups in any shape or form because Mastodon doesn't have them.
Where are all these things? In the Fediverse, no less? Where are they?
I'll tell you where they are.
Friendica. Hubzilla. (streams). Forte.
The actual social networking side of the Fediverse (although Hubzilla is more like a social CMS or a "social Swiss army knife" that you can also use as a Facebook-like social networking application). I mean, I've already explained that Friendica was created in 2010 as a Facebook alternative. Not a faithful Facebook clone, though, but better than Facebook.
Mike Macgirvin took over from Facebook what social networks really need. And Farmville isn't that, and spying on your users and passing that data on to the NSA and selling it to the highest bidder isn't that, so he didn't take over that. He didn't want to build a clone that also adopts the bad sides just to be as close to the original as possible.
He took over the detailed profiles with profile fields with dedicated purposes. He took over profile privacy settings. In general, he took over a lot of privacy features. He took over advanced user discovery and connection suggestions. He took over bidirectional connections, only without that silly name "friends". He took over groups with moderation, only that a group on Friendica is just another account with a special automated reposter. He took over enclosed threaded conversations with one post at the top and otherwise only comments. He took over a "timeline" of full conversations as the default. He took over the event calendar. And so forth.
Instead, he added useful stuff on top. He gave Friendica all the posting features to make it fully capable of long-form blogging with all bells and whistles. No character limit (except for in the database, but I think that was over 65,000 back in the day already). All HTML text formatting features (only that Friendica only used BBcode back then; now it can optionally also use Markdown). A post/thread title. Summaries. Embedded images and other media with no limit in number. He even added a spoiler tag like in forums that can hide parts of a message.
He took care of privacy beyond what Facebook had to offer. He introduced a permissions system. Friendica got multiple profile per account, only one of which is public, so that you can show different sides of yourself to different connections.
Now, if you want to embed images or other media in your messages, you have to store them somewhere. And not everyone could be expected to set up a little file space somewhere. So he built a file space into Friendica, one that can even be used as a Dropbox alternative, all the way to restricted access to certain directories.
Mike also added a content warning system that automatically generates content warnings on the reader's side, based on a keyword list. If you need something behind content warnings, add the keywords to the list, and you'll have the respective content warnings, but the next user receiving the self-same post or comment does not have these content warnings if they don't need them.
One important part of what makes Friendica Friendica is being able to connect to a whole lot of stuff. For example, Friendica could federate with StatusNet via the OStatus protocol from the get-go; this is also how it immediately federated with Mastodon when the latter was launched. Mastodon generates an RSS feed, something that many users don't know. Friendica not only generates an Atom feed, but it can subscribe to feeds. Friendica can "federate" with e-mail. Over time, more and more connection features were added, including Tumblr, Twitter (!), Facebook (only for a few years before Facebook crippled it) and a WordPress cross-poster.
Lastly, he made it possible for third parties to add extra features by implementing an add-on system.
I dare those who are fully convinced that Mastodon is the best Facebook alternative possible to use Friendica for a year. Not only dip one toe in to the water, but use it as their one and only daily driver for everything they've used Mastodon for. Not scratching the surface and using it like Twitter while ignoring any and all features the Twitter they remember didn't have, but going all in. In fact, I dare those who are fully convinced that Mastodon is perfect and fully-featured to do the same.
And then there's Hubzilla. It came to exist by Mike forking Friendica in 2011, then forking that fork the same year, then rewriting that fork of a fork in 2012, then repurposing, rebranding, repositioning and greatly expanding it in 2015. Long story.
Hubzilla adds even more stuff on top. Most importantly, it introduced nomadic identity (https://joinfediverse.wiki/Nomadic_identity) in 2012.
Hubzilla, or its 2012 prototype form named Red, became the first decentralised social software that uncoupled the identity from the login. This was necessary for nomadic identity, but it also introduced the option to have multiple independent identities, basically what's an account elsewhere, on the same account, the same login. This makes sense, given the many different roles and purposes a Hubzilla channel can have. The big advantage over having multiple separate accounts is that you can switch between the channels on your account without logging out and back in.
Hubzilla, or its 2012 prototype form named Red, got an even more advanced and fine-grained permissions system. Hubzilla has 17 individual permissions on three levels, channel level, contact level, content level. At channel level, each one has seven or eight permission options to choose from, depending on whether or not it makes sense to give a permission to everyone on the Internet.
Mike added optional features to Hubzilla that were previously unseen on social anything, features that you'd rather expect from a CMS and maybe not even from that. Non-federating long-form articles. Planning cards that are based on these articles. Wikis that can be formatted with BBcode or Markdown. Webpages that can be formatted with BBcode, Markdown or HTML, that can include dynamic content from elsewhere on the channel, and that can add extra content to the channel pages.
Hubzilla can even act as groupware. It has a CalDAV calendar server; the event calendar can double as a crude UI for the CalDAV calendars. It has an optional CardDAV addressbook server. Its built-in file storage can be accessed via WebDAV, so you theoretically even have some cloud file space you can mount as a network drive. Rather recently, there was even a way found to tie Collabora Office into Hubzilla.
If you should ever read about Bonfire: Bonfire is Hubzilla ordered from Wish.com. Whatever Bonfire promises to have or to introduce has been available as a rock-solid stable feature on Hubzilla for over a decade. Bonfire only gets away with what it's trying to do because nobody knows Hubzilla.
I think it's safe to say that those who "chose" Mastodon didn't choose it over the rest of the Fediverse because it's better. They "chose" it because they didn't even know they have a choice.
As for your post, the technology for redeveloping socialising is there. And it certainly isn't Mastodon, and it never will be Mastodon. Mastodon can't be that due to its design philosophy, due to it being a Twitter clone, due to its own developers intentionally crippling it.
If you want to move on from 1-way interaction, you have to move on from 1-way connections. Move on from Twitter followers to Facebook friends.
You have to offer better options for the users than shouting into the void, attaching a bunch of hashtags and hoping that some of their followers or someone who is following one of the hashtags happens to be bothered to scroll down their timeline far enough.
You have to make sure that people don't miss content due to basic design and philosophy decisions. You have to make sure that people don't miss content because they simply never know that this content is there in the first place, because they can't scroll down far enough their timelines until they reach that content. You need something else than a timeline of single messages to scroll down with the user not having an idea just how far down that timeline goes. You have to tell the user how much unread content there is, what it is, where it is, and take the user directly to that unread content.
You have to stop presenting content to users as a long list of single posts and more single posts with only tiny details telling them that these posts are, in fact, part of a longer conversation which they don't see. Where they have to click or tap themselves through various UI pages to see that post in its context. Users must see the whole conversation Right. Off. The bat.
You need groups. Not kluged onto something that had no group support whatsoever two seconds earlier, not intentionally crippled, not crippled by the technology they're built upon, not intentionally re-invented to be incompatible with whatever already exists (and this is how Mastodon would do them). But fully functional, on an appropriate base, interoperable, user-moderated, optionally private, optionally hiding from directories.
If you want to go "social", you really have to go social. You have to go Facebook, not Twitter.
Users must find other users based on common interests. Or users living close to them. Or users with lots of contacts in common with them. Not by being on the same local/regional server of the same server about a certain topic. Not by searching for hashtags in the main profile text. But by examining specialised profile fields and the contacts.
Users must have such users suggested to them as new connections. Users must have such users at the top of their directory. This is how Facebook does it. And this is one thing that Facebook has always done right.
Again, Mastodon will never offer any of this. But that doesn't mean that you'll have to compromise and lower your expectations. Because you don't have to. There are server applications in the Fediverse, fully federated with Mastodon, that offer literally all of that. They exist right now. And some of them have existed for longer than Mastodon.
If you need something better than today's Mastodon, stop wishing for a better Mastodon. Instead, use something that's better and more appropriate for the job than Mastodon right now. For it exists right now.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #CharacterLimit #CharacterLimits #CharacterLimitMeta #CWCharacterLimitMeta #500Characters #CW #CWs #CWMeta #ContentWarning #ContentWarnings #ContentWarningMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #MastodonFediverse #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Privacy #Permission #Permissions #Groups #FediverseGroups #FediGroups #NomadicIdentity #MastodonCentricity #MastodonNormativity -
@Truth & Answers Let me be honest: Mastodon isn't the right thing to rely on for this.
There are two common misconceptions on Mastodon about Mastodon. The first one is that Mastodon is the only free, non-commercial, non-corporate, decentralised social anything. Once Mastodon users are over this, they still think Mastodon is the best free, non-commercial, non-corporate, decentralised social anything.
I've seen Mastodon being advertised by users as a Fediverse alternative to literally everything, including Reddit (because, like, you can communicate, right?) and even YouTube (because, like, you can upload videos, right?).
But again, let me be honest: The only thing that Mastodon can hope to be an alternative to is 𝕏. Because it's a Twitter clone. A purist Twitter clone whose developers intentionally reject feature requests because the requested features don't fit into their image of purist, minimalist, old-school, original-gangsta microblogging. They want to keep Mastodon a slightly more glorified SMS than 𝕏.
Mastodon isn't even the only microblogging server application in the Fediverse. It isn't even the best at that. 80-90% of Mastodon's users don't and probably will never realise that Mastodon is an intentionally crippled resource hog. Many believe that Mastodon is the fully-featured be-all, end-all of social networking.
By the way, even the Mastodon developers claim that Mastodon is fully featured. I've had a Mastodon dev try hard to convince me that Mastodon is fully featured although I've told him that I'm on Hubzilla. He essentially tried to tell me that Mastodon has every last feature that Hubzilla has plus even more on top.
In reality, Mastodon isn't the fully-featured be-all, end-all of social networking. It isn't even a social network. It's social media, just like 𝕏 is social media. It's designed for pumping out content and being followed because it's designed as a Twitter-like microblogging application. And it isn't even the best at microblogging.
Almost everyone on Mastodon is fully convinced that Mastodon has to be the best. After all, it's the biggest. It's what everyone chose.
No.
Mastodon is the biggest because everyone who wants to leave 𝕏 or Threads or Bluesky is railroaded to Mastodon. It's the biggest because all the newbies are only told about Mastodon. It's the biggest because none of the newbies even learn upon on-boarding that other 𝕏 alternatives exist in the Fediverse, that anything else exists in the Fediverse other than Mastodon. It's the biggest because mainstream media, tech media and even Fediverse activists only ever talk about Mastodon, Mastodon, Mastodon. (Granted, it's also the biggest because it's the only one with an official phone app in the Apple App Store and the Google Play Store. Even though that app sucks.)
All these Mastodon users who claim that Mastodon is the best choice don't realise that they themselves did, in fact, not choose Mastodon. They didn't know they had a choice. All they were told about was Mastodon. Seriously, if they'd had a choice, they'd probably be on Sharkey now and not on Mastodon.
I've read what people had to say who moved from Friendica to Misskey. Or to now defunct Calckey/Firefish. Or to Sharkey. Or to Akkoma. All these are microblogging server applications in the Fediverse. But none of them are intentionally crippled to stay close to Twitter, at least not to such a degree as Mastodon.
It was nothing short of eye-opening to them. Only by daily-driving something else than Mastodon did they realise what the non-Mastodon Fediverse can be like. And how crippled Mastodon actually is. That Mastodon is far from being the absolute pinnacle in decentralised social media.
They no longer had only 500 characters. They had thousands of characters. They would have had thousands of characters on every server running that software without having to ask around which one has more than 500 characters. It felt like a restraint being removed which they had never considered a restraint, at least not that much of it.
They saw text formatting which they considered technologically absolutely impossible in the Fediverse when they were on Mastodon. In fact, they had considered text formatting entirely impossible while on Mastodon until they had come across the first message from outside with text formatting. Actual text formatting, not Unicode trickery. Now they suddenly saw a lot of the stuff that Mastodon's HTML sanitiser removes. And they themselves could use it!
If they were on one of the *keys, they no longer had a timeline of single-message piecemeal. For the first time ever, they experienced what it's like to have something else than single-message piecemeal. Namely entire conversations right in front of them, right away. Without having to dig for them first.
They had features which they had always wished the Fediverse may introduce. They never knew that the Fediverse does have these features, only Mastodon doesn't. They had features that were completely unimagiable to them in the Fediverse.
There are users who have moved from Mastodon to something "minimalist" and lightweight like snac or GoToSocial, often on self-hosted, single-user, private servers. Even they suddenly had features they didn't have on Mastodon. Mind you, while not missing a single Mastodon feature (except maybe for a built-in Web UI).
And that's just the microblogging side of the Fediverse. None of this is actual social networking. You know, what Facebook does.
First of all, if it's about following and being followed, it's social media. A social network doesn't have followers. In case you don't know, Facebook doesn't have followers. It has "friends". Bidirectional connections. Not 𝕏/Mastodon-like mutuals which are two connections, one in each direction, but one connection that goes both ways.
Besides, there are even more important social networking features missing from the microblogging side of the Fediverse.
Where are the contact suggestions? Where does Mastodon suggest new contacts based on how many contacts you have in common with them? Where does Mastodon suggest new contacts based on what profile information you have in common with them?
Oh, right, the latter is impossible because Mastodon doesn't have profile fields with defined purposes. In fact, where are these? Every good social network has them! But Mastodon only gives you four all-purpose profile fields (just like Mastodon only gives you four of everything, four file attachments, four options in polls...).
Where is the list of unread posts, unread comments and other unnoticed actions? How are you to make sure you really catch everything your friends do? Because you can't do that if all you have is a timeline to scroll through until you no longer see new stuff. If you manage to scroll down that far. And only absolute newbies can do that on Mastodon because they hardly follow anyone.
Where are groups? Seriously, I've lost count of how many times Mastodon users said "the Fediverse" must introduce something like Facebook Groups. The huge majority of Mastodon users is fully convinced that the Fediverse does not have groups in any shape or form because Mastodon doesn't have them.
Where are all these things? In the Fediverse, no less? Where are they?
I'll tell you where they are.
Friendica. Hubzilla. (streams). Forte.
The actual social networking side of the Fediverse (although Hubzilla is more like a social CMS or a "social Swiss army knife" that you can also use as a Facebook-like social networking application). I mean, I've already explained that Friendica was created in 2010 as a Facebook alternative. Not a faithful Facebook clone, though, but better than Facebook.
Mike Macgirvin took over from Facebook what social networks really need. And Farmville isn't that, and spying on your users and passing that data on to the NSA and selling it to the highest bidder isn't that, so he didn't take over that. He didn't want to build a clone that also adopts the bad sides just to be as close to the original as possible.
He took over the detailed profiles with profile fields with dedicated purposes. He took over profile privacy settings. In general, he took over a lot of privacy features. He took over advanced user discovery and connection suggestions. He took over bidirectional connections, only without that silly name "friends". He took over groups with moderation, only that a group on Friendica is just another account with a special automated reposter. He took over enclosed threaded conversations with one post at the top and otherwise only comments. He took over a "timeline" of full conversations as the default. He took over the event calendar. And so forth.
Instead, he added useful stuff on top. He gave Friendica all the posting features to make it fully capable of long-form blogging with all bells and whistles. No character limit (except for in the database, but I think that was over 65,000 back in the day already). All HTML text formatting features (only that Friendica only used BBcode back then; now it can optionally also use Markdown). A post/thread title. Summaries. Embedded images and other media with no limit in number. He even added a spoiler tag like in forums that can hide parts of a message.
He took care of privacy beyond what Facebook had to offer. He introduced a permissions system. Friendica got multiple profile per account, only one of which is public, so that you can show different sides of yourself to different connections.
Now, if you want to embed images or other media in your messages, you have to store them somewhere. And not everyone could be expected to set up a little file space somewhere. So he built a file space into Friendica, one that can even be used as a Dropbox alternative, all the way to restricted access to certain directories.
Mike also added a content warning system that automatically generates content warnings on the reader's side, based on a keyword list. If you need something behind content warnings, add the keywords to the list, and you'll have the respective content warnings, but the next user receiving the self-same post or comment does not have these content warnings if they don't need them.
One important part of what makes Friendica Friendica is being able to connect to a whole lot of stuff. For example, Friendica could federate with StatusNet via the OStatus protocol from the get-go; this is also how it immediately federated with Mastodon when the latter was launched. Mastodon generates an RSS feed, something that many users don't know. Friendica not only generates an Atom feed, but it can subscribe to feeds. Friendica can "federate" with e-mail. Over time, more and more connection features were added, including Tumblr, Twitter (!), Facebook (only for a few years before Facebook crippled it) and a WordPress cross-poster.
Lastly, he made it possible for third parties to add extra features by implementing an add-on system.
I dare those who are fully convinced that Mastodon is the best Facebook alternative possible to use Friendica for a year. Not only dip one toe in to the water, but use it as their one and only daily driver for everything they've used Mastodon for. Not scratching the surface and using it like Twitter while ignoring any and all features the Twitter they remember didn't have, but going all in. In fact, I dare those who are fully convinced that Mastodon is perfect and fully-featured to do the same.
And then there's Hubzilla. It came to exist by Mike forking Friendica in 2011, then forking that fork the same year, then rewriting that fork of a fork in 2012, then repurposing, rebranding, repositioning and greatly expanding it in 2015. Long story.
Hubzilla adds even more stuff on top. Most importantly, it introduced nomadic identity (https://joinfediverse.wiki/Nomadic_identity) in 2012.
Hubzilla, or its 2012 prototype form named Red, became the first decentralised social software that uncoupled the identity from the login. This was necessary for nomadic identity, but it also introduced the option to have multiple independent identities, basically what's an account elsewhere, on the same account, the same login. This makes sense, given the many different roles and purposes a Hubzilla channel can have. The big advantage over having multiple separate accounts is that you can switch between the channels on your account without logging out and back in.
Hubzilla, or its 2012 prototype form named Red, got an even more advanced and fine-grained permissions system. Hubzilla has 17 individual permissions on three levels, channel level, contact level, content level. At channel level, each one has seven or eight permission options to choose from, depending on whether or not it makes sense to give a permission to everyone on the Internet.
Mike added optional features to Hubzilla that were previously unseen on social anything, features that you'd rather expect from a CMS and maybe not even from that. Non-federating long-form articles. Planning cards that are based on these articles. Wikis that can be formatted with BBcode or Markdown. Webpages that can be formatted with BBcode, Markdown or HTML, that can include dynamic content from elsewhere on the channel, and that can add extra content to the channel pages.
Hubzilla can even act as groupware. It has a CalDAV calendar server; the event calendar can double as a crude UI for the CalDAV calendars. It has an optional CardDAV addressbook server. Its built-in file storage can be accessed via WebDAV, so you theoretically even have some cloud file space you can mount as a network drive. Rather recently, there was even a way found to tie Collabora Office into Hubzilla.
If you should ever read about Bonfire: Bonfire is Hubzilla ordered from Wish.com. Whatever Bonfire promises to have or to introduce has been available as a rock-solid stable feature on Hubzilla for over a decade. Bonfire only gets away with what it's trying to do because nobody knows Hubzilla.
I think it's safe to say that those who "chose" Mastodon didn't choose it over the rest of the Fediverse because it's better. They "chose" it because they didn't even know they have a choice.
As for your post, the technology for redeveloping socialising is there. And it certainly isn't Mastodon, and it never will be Mastodon. Mastodon can't be that due to its design philosophy, due to it being a Twitter clone, due to its own developers intentionally crippling it.
If you want to move on from 1-way interaction, you have to move on from 1-way connections. Move on from Twitter followers to Facebook friends.
You have to offer better options for the users than shouting into the void, attaching a bunch of hashtags and hoping that some of their followers or someone who is following one of the hashtags happens to be bothered to scroll down their timeline far enough.
You have to make sure that people don't miss content due to basic design and philosophy decisions. You have to make sure that people don't miss content because they simply never know that this content is there in the first place, because they can't scroll down far enough their timelines until they reach that content. You need something else than a timeline of single messages to scroll down with the user not having an idea just how far down that timeline goes. You have to tell the user how much unread content there is, what it is, where it is, and take the user directly to that unread content.
You have to stop presenting content to users as a long list of single posts and more single posts with only tiny details telling them that these posts are, in fact, part of a longer conversation which they don't see. Where they have to click or tap themselves through various UI pages to see that post in its context. Users must see the whole conversation Right. Off. The bat.
You need groups. Not kluged onto something that had no group support whatsoever two seconds earlier, not intentionally crippled, not crippled by the technology they're built upon, not intentionally re-invented to be incompatible with whatever already exists (and this is how Mastodon would do them). But fully functional, on an appropriate base, interoperable, user-moderated, optionally private, optionally hiding from directories.
If you want to go "social", you really have to go social. You have to go Facebook, not Twitter.
Users must find other users based on common interests. Or users living close to them. Or users with lots of contacts in common with them. Not by being on the same local/regional server of the same server about a certain topic. Not by searching for hashtags in the main profile text. But by examining specialised profile fields and the contacts.
Users must have such users suggested to them as new connections. Users must have such users at the top of their directory. This is how Facebook does it. And this is one thing that Facebook has always done right.
Again, Mastodon will never offer any of this. But that doesn't mean that you'll have to compromise and lower your expectations. Because you don't have to. There are server applications in the Fediverse, fully federated with Mastodon, that offer literally all of that. They exist right now. And some of them have existed for longer than Mastodon.
If you need something better than today's Mastodon, stop wishing for a better Mastodon. Instead, use something that's better and more appropriate for the job than Mastodon right now. For it exists right now.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #CharacterLimit #CharacterLimits #CharacterLimitMeta #CWCharacterLimitMeta #500Characters #CW #CWs #CWMeta #ContentWarning #ContentWarnings #ContentWarningMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #MastodonFediverse #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Privacy #Permission #Permissions #Groups #FediverseGroups #FediGroups #NomadicIdentity #MastodonCentricity #MastodonNormativity -
@Truth & Answers Let me be honest: Mastodon isn't the right thing to rely on for this.
There are two common misconceptions on Mastodon about Mastodon. The first one is that Mastodon is the only free, non-commercial, non-corporate, decentralised social anything. Once Mastodon users are over this, they still think Mastodon is the best free, non-commercial, non-corporate, decentralised social anything.
I've seen Mastodon being advertised by users as a Fediverse alternative to literally everything, including Reddit (because, like, you can communicate, right?) and even YouTube (because, like, you can upload videos, right?).
But again, let me be honest: The only thing that Mastodon can hope to be an alternative to is 𝕏. Because it's a Twitter clone. A purist Twitter clone whose developers intentionally reject feature requests because the requested features don't fit into their image of purist, minimalist, old-school, original-gangsta microblogging. They want to keep Mastodon a slightly more glorified SMS than 𝕏.
Mastodon isn't even the only microblogging server application in the Fediverse. It isn't even the best at that. 80-90% of Mastodon's users don't and probably will never realise that Mastodon is an intentionally crippled resource hog. Many believe that Mastodon is the fully-featured be-all, end-all of social networking.
By the way, even the Mastodon developers claim that Mastodon is fully featured. I've had a Mastodon dev try hard to convince me that Mastodon is fully featured although I've told him that I'm on Hubzilla. He essentially tried to tell me that Mastodon has every last feature that Hubzilla has plus even more on top.
In reality, Mastodon isn't the fully-featured be-all, end-all of social networking. It isn't even a social network. It's social media, just like 𝕏 is social media. It's designed for pumping out content and being followed because it's designed as a Twitter-like microblogging application. And it isn't even the best at microblogging.
Almost everyone on Mastodon is fully convinced that Mastodon has to be the best. After all, it's the biggest. It's what everyone chose.
No.
Mastodon is the biggest because everyone who wants to leave 𝕏 or Threads or Bluesky is railroaded to Mastodon. It's the biggest because all the newbies are only told about Mastodon. It's the biggest because none of the newbies even learn upon on-boarding that other 𝕏 alternatives exist in the Fediverse, that anything else exists in the Fediverse other than Mastodon. It's the biggest because mainstream media, tech media and even Fediverse activists only ever talk about Mastodon, Mastodon, Mastodon. (Granted, it's also the biggest because it's the only one with an official phone app in the Apple App Store and the Google Play Store. Even though that app sucks.)
All these Mastodon users who claim that Mastodon is the best choice don't realise that they themselves did, in fact, not choose Mastodon. They didn't know they had a choice. All they were told about was Mastodon. Seriously, if they'd had a choice, they'd probably be on Sharkey now and not on Mastodon.
I've read what people had to say who moved from Friendica to Misskey. Or to now defunct Calckey/Firefish. Or to Sharkey. Or to Akkoma. All these are microblogging server applications in the Fediverse. But none of them are intentionally crippled to stay close to Twitter, at least not to such a degree as Mastodon.
It was nothing short of eye-opening to them. Only by daily-driving something else than Mastodon did they realise what the non-Mastodon Fediverse can be like. And how crippled Mastodon actually is. That Mastodon is far from being the absolute pinnacle in decentralised social media.
They no longer had only 500 characters. They had thousands of characters. They would have had thousands of characters on every server running that software without having to ask around which one has more than 500 characters. It felt like a restraint being removed which they had never considered a restraint, at least not that much of it.
They saw text formatting which they considered technologically absolutely impossible in the Fediverse when they were on Mastodon. In fact, they had considered text formatting entirely impossible while on Mastodon until they had come across the first message from outside with text formatting. Actual text formatting, not Unicode trickery. Now they suddenly saw a lot of the stuff that Mastodon's HTML sanitiser removes. And they themselves could use it!
If they were on one of the *keys, they no longer had a timeline of single-message piecemeal. For the first time ever, they experienced what it's like to have something else than single-message piecemeal. Namely entire conversations right in front of them, right away. Without having to dig for them first.
They had features which they had always wished the Fediverse may introduce. They never knew that the Fediverse does have these features, only Mastodon doesn't. They had features that were completely unimagiable to them in the Fediverse.
There are users who have moved from Mastodon to something "minimalist" and lightweight like snac or GoToSocial, often on self-hosted, single-user, private servers. Even they suddenly had features they didn't have on Mastodon. Mind you, while not missing a single Mastodon feature (except maybe for a built-in Web UI).
And that's just the microblogging side of the Fediverse. None of this is actual social networking. You know, what Facebook does.
First of all, if it's about following and being followed, it's social media. A social network doesn't have followers. In case you don't know, Facebook doesn't have followers. It has "friends". Bidirectional connections. Not 𝕏/Mastodon-like mutuals which are two connections, one in each direction, but one connection that goes both ways.
Besides, there are even more important social networking features missing from the microblogging side of the Fediverse.
Where are the contact suggestions? Where does Mastodon suggest new contacts based on how many contacts you have in common with them? Where does Mastodon suggest new contacts based on what profile information you have in common with them?
Oh, right, the latter is impossible because Mastodon doesn't have profile fields with defined purposes. In fact, where are these? Every good social network has them! But Mastodon only gives you four all-purpose profile fields (just like Mastodon only gives you four of everything, four file attachments, four options in polls...).
Where is the list of unread posts, unread comments and other unnoticed actions? How are you to make sure you really catch everything your friends do? Because you can't do that if all you have is a timeline to scroll through until you no longer see new stuff. If you manage to scroll down that far. And only absolute newbies can do that on Mastodon because they hardly follow anyone.
Where are groups? Seriously, I've lost count of how many times Mastodon users said "the Fediverse" must introduce something like Facebook Groups. The huge majority of Mastodon users is fully convinced that the Fediverse does not have groups in any shape or form because Mastodon doesn't have them.
Where are all these things? In the Fediverse, no less? Where are they?
I'll tell you where they are.
Friendica. Hubzilla. (streams). Forte.
The actual social networking side of the Fediverse (although Hubzilla is more like a social CMS or a "social Swiss army knife" that you can also use as a Facebook-like social networking application). I mean, I've already explained that Friendica was created in 2010 as a Facebook alternative. Not a faithful Facebook clone, though, but better than Facebook.
Mike Macgirvin took over from Facebook what social networks really need. And Farmville isn't that, and spying on your users and passing that data on to the NSA and selling it to the highest bidder isn't that, so he didn't take over that. He didn't want to build a clone that also adopts the bad sides just to be as close to the original as possible.
He took over the detailed profiles with profile fields with dedicated purposes. He took over profile privacy settings. In general, he took over a lot of privacy features. He took over advanced user discovery and connection suggestions. He took over bidirectional connections, only without that silly name "friends". He took over groups with moderation, only that a group on Friendica is just another account with a special automated reposter. He took over enclosed threaded conversations with one post at the top and otherwise only comments. He took over a "timeline" of full conversations as the default. He took over the event calendar. And so forth.
Instead, he added useful stuff on top. He gave Friendica all the posting features to make it fully capable of long-form blogging with all bells and whistles. No character limit (except for in the database, but I think that was over 65,000 back in the day already). All HTML text formatting features (only that Friendica only used BBcode back then; now it can optionally also use Markdown). A post/thread title. Summaries. Embedded images and other media with no limit in number. He even added a spoiler tag like in forums that can hide parts of a message.
He took care of privacy beyond what Facebook had to offer. He introduced a permissions system. Friendica got multiple profile per account, only one of which is public, so that you can show different sides of yourself to different connections.
Now, if you want to embed images or other media in your messages, you have to store them somewhere. And not everyone could be expected to set up a little file space somewhere. So he built a file space into Friendica, one that can even be used as a Dropbox alternative, all the way to restricted access to certain directories.
Mike also added a content warning system that automatically generates content warnings on the reader's side, based on a keyword list. If you need something behind content warnings, add the keywords to the list, and you'll have the respective content warnings, but the next user receiving the self-same post or comment does not have these content warnings if they don't need them.
One important part of what makes Friendica Friendica is being able to connect to a whole lot of stuff. For example, Friendica could federate with StatusNet via the OStatus protocol from the get-go; this is also how it immediately federated with Mastodon when the latter was launched. Mastodon generates an RSS feed, something that many users don't know. Friendica not only generates an Atom feed, but it can subscribe to feeds. Friendica can "federate" with e-mail. Over time, more and more connection features were added, including Tumblr, Twitter (!), Facebook (only for a few years before Facebook crippled it) and a WordPress cross-poster.
Lastly, he made it possible for third parties to add extra features by implementing an add-on system.
I dare those who are fully convinced that Mastodon is the best Facebook alternative possible to use Friendica for a year. Not only dip one toe in to the water, but use it as their one and only daily driver for everything they've used Mastodon for. Not scratching the surface and using it like Twitter while ignoring any and all features the Twitter they remember didn't have, but going all in. In fact, I dare those who are fully convinced that Mastodon is perfect and fully-featured to do the same.
And then there's Hubzilla. It came to exist by Mike forking Friendica in 2011, then forking that fork the same year, then rewriting that fork of a fork in 2012, then repurposing, rebranding, repositioning and greatly expanding it in 2015. Long story.
Hubzilla adds even more stuff on top. Most importantly, it introduced nomadic identity (https://joinfediverse.wiki/Nomadic_identity) in 2012.
Hubzilla, or its 2012 prototype form named Red, became the first decentralised social software that uncoupled the identity from the login. This was necessary for nomadic identity, but it also introduced the option to have multiple independent identities, basically what's an account elsewhere, on the same account, the same login. This makes sense, given the many different roles and purposes a Hubzilla channel can have. The big advantage over having multiple separate accounts is that you can switch between the channels on your account without logging out and back in.
Hubzilla, or its 2012 prototype form named Red, got an even more advanced and fine-grained permissions system. Hubzilla has 17 individual permissions on three levels, channel level, contact level, content level. At channel level, each one has seven or eight permission options to choose from, depending on whether or not it makes sense to give a permission to everyone on the Internet.
Mike added optional features to Hubzilla that were previously unseen on social anything, features that you'd rather expect from a CMS and maybe not even from that. Non-federating long-form articles. Planning cards that are based on these articles. Wikis that can be formatted with BBcode or Markdown. Webpages that can be formatted with BBcode, Markdown or HTML, that can include dynamic content from elsewhere on the channel, and that can add extra content to the channel pages.
Hubzilla can even act as groupware. It has a CalDAV calendar server; the event calendar can double as a crude UI for the CalDAV calendars. It has an optional CardDAV addressbook server. Its built-in file storage can be accessed via WebDAV, so you theoretically even have some cloud file space you can mount as a network drive. Rather recently, there was even a way found to tie Collabora Office into Hubzilla.
If you should ever read about Bonfire: Bonfire is Hubzilla ordered from Wish.com. Whatever Bonfire promises to have or to introduce has been available as a rock-solid stable feature on Hubzilla for over a decade. Bonfire only gets away with what it's trying to do because nobody knows Hubzilla.
I think it's safe to say that those who "chose" Mastodon didn't choose it over the rest of the Fediverse because it's better. They "chose" it because they didn't even know they have a choice.
As for your post, the technology for redeveloping socialising is there. And it certainly isn't Mastodon, and it never will be Mastodon. Mastodon can't be that due to its design philosophy, due to it being a Twitter clone, due to its own developers intentionally crippling it.
If you want to move on from 1-way interaction, you have to move on from 1-way connections. Move on from Twitter followers to Facebook friends.
You have to offer better options for the users than shouting into the void, attaching a bunch of hashtags and hoping that some of their followers or someone who is following one of the hashtags happens to be bothered to scroll down their timeline far enough.
You have to make sure that people don't miss content due to basic design and philosophy decisions. You have to make sure that people don't miss content because they simply never know that this content is there in the first place, because they can't scroll down far enough their timelines until they reach that content. You need something else than a timeline of single messages to scroll down with the user not having an idea just how far down that timeline goes. You have to tell the user how much unread content there is, what it is, where it is, and take the user directly to that unread content.
You have to stop presenting content to users as a long list of single posts and more single posts with only tiny details telling them that these posts are, in fact, part of a longer conversation which they don't see. Where they have to click or tap themselves through various UI pages to see that post in its context. Users must see the whole conversation Right. Off. The bat.
You need groups. Not kluged onto something that had no group support whatsoever two seconds earlier, not intentionally crippled, not crippled by the technology they're built upon, not intentionally re-invented to be incompatible with whatever already exists (and this is how Mastodon would do them). But fully functional, on an appropriate base, interoperable, user-moderated, optionally private, optionally hiding from directories.
If you want to go "social", you really have to go social. You have to go Facebook, not Twitter.
Users must find other users based on common interests. Or users living close to them. Or users with lots of contacts in common with them. Not by being on the same local/regional server of the same server about a certain topic. Not by searching for hashtags in the main profile text. But by examining specialised profile fields and the contacts.
Users must have such users suggested to them as new connections. Users must have such users at the top of their directory. This is how Facebook does it. And this is one thing that Facebook has always done right.
Again, Mastodon will never offer any of this. But that doesn't mean that you'll have to compromise and lower your expectations. Because you don't have to. There are server applications in the Fediverse, fully federated with Mastodon, that offer literally all of that. They exist right now. And some of them have existed for longer than Mastodon.
If you need something better than today's Mastodon, stop wishing for a better Mastodon. Instead, use something that's better and more appropriate for the job than Mastodon right now. For it exists right now.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #CharacterLimit #CharacterLimits #CharacterLimitMeta #CWCharacterLimitMeta #500Characters #CW #CWs #CWMeta #ContentWarning #ContentWarnings #ContentWarningMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #MastodonFediverse #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Privacy #Permission #Permissions #Groups #FediverseGroups #FediGroups #NomadicIdentity #MastodonCentricity #MastodonNormativity -
@Truth & Answers Let me be honest: Mastodon isn't the right thing to rely on for this.
There are two common misconceptions on Mastodon about Mastodon. The first one is that Mastodon is the only free, non-commercial, non-corporate, decentralised social anything. Once Mastodon users are over this, they still think Mastodon is the best free, non-commercial, non-corporate, decentralised social anything.
I've seen Mastodon being advertised by users as a Fediverse alternative to literally everything, including Reddit (because, like, you can communicate, right?) and even YouTube (because, like, you can upload videos, right?).
But again, let me be honest: The only thing that Mastodon can hope to be an alternative to is 𝕏. Because it's a Twitter clone. A purist Twitter clone whose developers intentionally reject feature requests because the requested features don't fit into their image of purist, minimalist, old-school, original-gangsta microblogging. They want to keep Mastodon a slightly more glorified SMS than 𝕏.
Mastodon isn't even the only microblogging server application in the Fediverse. It isn't even the best at that. 80-90% of Mastodon's users don't and probably will never realise that Mastodon is an intentionally crippled resource hog. Many believe that Mastodon is the fully-featured be-all, end-all of social networking.
By the way, even the Mastodon developers claim that Mastodon is fully featured. I've had a Mastodon dev try hard to convince me that Mastodon is fully featured although I've told him that I'm on Hubzilla. He essentially tried to tell me that Mastodon has every last feature that Hubzilla has plus even more on top.
In reality, Mastodon isn't the fully-featured be-all, end-all of social networking. It isn't even a social network. It's social media, just like 𝕏 is social media. It's designed for pumping out content and being followed because it's designed as a Twitter-like microblogging application. And it isn't even the best at microblogging.
Almost everyone on Mastodon is fully convinced that Mastodon has to be the best. After all, it's the biggest. It's what everyone chose.
No.
Mastodon is the biggest because everyone who wants to leave 𝕏 or Threads or Bluesky is railroaded to Mastodon. It's the biggest because all the newbies are only told about Mastodon. It's the biggest because none of the newbies even learn upon on-boarding that other 𝕏 alternatives exist in the Fediverse, that anything else exists in the Fediverse other than Mastodon. It's the biggest because mainstream media, tech media and even Fediverse activists only ever talk about Mastodon, Mastodon, Mastodon. (Granted, it's also the biggest because it's the only one with an official phone app in the Apple App Store and the Google Play Store. Even though that app sucks.)
All these Mastodon users who claim that Mastodon is the best choice don't realise that they themselves did, in fact, not choose Mastodon. They didn't know they had a choice. All they were told about was Mastodon. Seriously, if they'd had a choice, they'd probably be on Sharkey now and not on Mastodon.
I've read what people had to say who moved from Friendica to Misskey. Or to now defunct Calckey/Firefish. Or to Sharkey. Or to Akkoma. All these are microblogging server applications in the Fediverse. But none of them are intentionally crippled to stay close to Twitter, at least not to such a degree as Mastodon.
It was nothing short of eye-opening to them. Only by daily-driving something else than Mastodon did they realise what the non-Mastodon Fediverse can be like. And how crippled Mastodon actually is. That Mastodon is far from being the absolute pinnacle in decentralised social media.
They no longer had only 500 characters. They had thousands of characters. They would have had thousands of characters on every server running that software without having to ask around which one has more than 500 characters. It felt like a restraint being removed which they had never considered a restraint, at least not that much of it.
They saw text formatting which they considered technologically absolutely impossible in the Fediverse when they were on Mastodon. In fact, they had considered text formatting entirely impossible while on Mastodon until they had come across the first message from outside with text formatting. Actual text formatting, not Unicode trickery. Now they suddenly saw a lot of the stuff that Mastodon's HTML sanitiser removes. And they themselves could use it!
If they were on one of the *keys, they no longer had a timeline of single-message piecemeal. For the first time ever, they experienced what it's like to have something else than single-message piecemeal. Namely entire conversations right in front of them, right away. Without having to dig for them first.
They had features which they had always wished the Fediverse may introduce. They never knew that the Fediverse does have these features, only Mastodon doesn't. They had features that were completely unimagiable to them in the Fediverse.
There are users who have moved from Mastodon to something "minimalist" and lightweight like snac or GoToSocial, often on self-hosted, single-user, private servers. Even they suddenly had features they didn't have on Mastodon. Mind you, while not missing a single Mastodon feature (except maybe for a built-in Web UI).
And that's just the microblogging side of the Fediverse. None of this is actual social networking. You know, what Facebook does.
First of all, if it's about following and being followed, it's social media. A social network doesn't have followers. In case you don't know, Facebook doesn't have followers. It has "friends". Bidirectional connections. Not 𝕏/Mastodon-like mutuals which are two connections, one in each direction, but one connection that goes both ways.
Besides, there are even more important social networking features missing from the microblogging side of the Fediverse.
Where are the contact suggestions? Where does Mastodon suggest new contacts based on how many contacts you have in common with them? Where does Mastodon suggest new contacts based on what profile information you have in common with them?
Oh, right, the latter is impossible because Mastodon doesn't have profile fields with defined purposes. In fact, where are these? Every good social network has them! But Mastodon only gives you four all-purpose profile fields (just like Mastodon only gives you four of everything, four file attachments, four options in polls...).
Where is the list of unread posts, unread comments and other unnoticed actions? How are you to make sure you really catch everything your friends do? Because you can't do that if all you have is a timeline to scroll through until you no longer see new stuff. If you manage to scroll down that far. And only absolute newbies can do that on Mastodon because they hardly follow anyone.
Where are groups? Seriously, I've lost count of how many times Mastodon users said "the Fediverse" must introduce something like Facebook Groups. The huge majority of Mastodon users is fully convinced that the Fediverse does not have groups in any shape or form because Mastodon doesn't have them.
Where are all these things? In the Fediverse, no less? Where are they?
I'll tell you where they are.
Friendica. Hubzilla. (streams). Forte.
The actual social networking side of the Fediverse (although Hubzilla is more like a social CMS or a "social Swiss army knife" that you can also use as a Facebook-like social networking application). I mean, I've already explained that Friendica was created in 2010 as a Facebook alternative. Not a faithful Facebook clone, though, but better than Facebook.
Mike Macgirvin took over from Facebook what social networks really need. And Farmville isn't that, and spying on your users and passing that data on to the NSA and selling it to the highest bidder isn't that, so he didn't take over that. He didn't want to build a clone that also adopts the bad sides just to be as close to the original as possible.
He took over the detailed profiles with profile fields with dedicated purposes. He took over profile privacy settings. In general, he took over a lot of privacy features. He took over advanced user discovery and connection suggestions. He took over bidirectional connections, only without that silly name "friends". He took over groups with moderation, only that a group on Friendica is just another account with a special automated reposter. He took over enclosed threaded conversations with one post at the top and otherwise only comments. He took over a "timeline" of full conversations as the default. He took over the event calendar. And so forth.
Instead, he added useful stuff on top. He gave Friendica all the posting features to make it fully capable of long-form blogging with all bells and whistles. No character limit (except for in the database, but I think that was over 65,000 back in the day already). All HTML text formatting features (only that Friendica only used BBcode back then; now it can optionally also use Markdown). A post/thread title. Summaries. Embedded images and other media with no limit in number. He even added a spoiler tag like in forums that can hide parts of a message.
He took care of privacy beyond what Facebook had to offer. He introduced a permissions system. Friendica got multiple profile per account, only one of which is public, so that you can show different sides of yourself to different connections.
Now, if you want to embed images or other media in your messages, you have to store them somewhere. And not everyone could be expected to set up a little file space somewhere. So he built a file space into Friendica, one that can even be used as a Dropbox alternative, all the way to restricted access to certain directories.
Mike also added a content warning system that automatically generates content warnings on the reader's side, based on a keyword list. If you need something behind content warnings, add the keywords to the list, and you'll have the respective content warnings, but the next user receiving the self-same post or comment does not have these content warnings if they don't need them.
One important part of what makes Friendica Friendica is being able to connect to a whole lot of stuff. For example, Friendica could federate with StatusNet via the OStatus protocol from the get-go; this is also how it immediately federated with Mastodon when the latter was launched. Mastodon generates an RSS feed, something that many users don't know. Friendica not only generates an Atom feed, but it can subscribe to feeds. Friendica can "federate" with e-mail. Over time, more and more connection features were added, including Tumblr, Twitter (!), Facebook (only for a few years before Facebook crippled it) and a WordPress cross-poster.
Lastly, he made it possible for third parties to add extra features by implementing an add-on system.
I dare those who are fully convinced that Mastodon is the best Facebook alternative possible to use Friendica for a year. Not only dip one toe in to the water, but use it as their one and only daily driver for everything they've used Mastodon for. Not scratching the surface and using it like Twitter while ignoring any and all features the Twitter they remember didn't have, but going all in. In fact, I dare those who are fully convinced that Mastodon is perfect and fully-featured to do the same.
And then there's Hubzilla. It came to exist by Mike forking Friendica in 2011, then forking that fork the same year, then rewriting that fork of a fork in 2012, then repurposing, rebranding, repositioning and greatly expanding it in 2015. Long story.
Hubzilla adds even more stuff on top. Most importantly, it introduced nomadic identity (https://joinfediverse.wiki/Nomadic_identity) in 2012.
Hubzilla, or its 2012 prototype form named Red, became the first decentralised social software that uncoupled the identity from the login. This was necessary for nomadic identity, but it also introduced the option to have multiple independent identities, basically what's an account elsewhere, on the same account, the same login. This makes sense, given the many different roles and purposes a Hubzilla channel can have. The big advantage over having multiple separate accounts is that you can switch between the channels on your account without logging out and back in.
Hubzilla, or its 2012 prototype form named Red, got an even more advanced and fine-grained permissions system. Hubzilla has 17 individual permissions on three levels, channel level, contact level, content level. At channel level, each one has seven or eight permission options to choose from, depending on whether or not it makes sense to give a permission to everyone on the Internet.
Mike added optional features to Hubzilla that were previously unseen on social anything, features that you'd rather expect from a CMS and maybe not even from that. Non-federating long-form articles. Planning cards that are based on these articles. Wikis that can be formatted with BBcode or Markdown. Webpages that can be formatted with BBcode, Markdown or HTML, that can include dynamic content from elsewhere on the channel, and that can add extra content to the channel pages.
Hubzilla can even act as groupware. It has a CalDAV calendar server; the event calendar can double as a crude UI for the CalDAV calendars. It has an optional CardDAV addressbook server. Its built-in file storage can be accessed via WebDAV, so you theoretically even have some cloud file space you can mount as a network drive. Rather recently, there was even a way found to tie Collabora Office into Hubzilla.
If you should ever read about Bonfire: Bonfire is Hubzilla ordered from Wish.com. Whatever Bonfire promises to have or to introduce has been available as a rock-solid stable feature on Hubzilla for over a decade. Bonfire only gets away with what it's trying to do because nobody knows Hubzilla.
I think it's safe to say that those who "chose" Mastodon didn't choose it over the rest of the Fediverse because it's better. They "chose" it because they didn't even know they have a choice.
As for your post, the technology for redeveloping socialising is there. And it certainly isn't Mastodon, and it never will be Mastodon. Mastodon can't be that due to its design philosophy, due to it being a Twitter clone, due to its own developers intentionally crippling it.
If you want to move on from 1-way interaction, you have to move on from 1-way connections. Move on from Twitter followers to Facebook friends.
You have to offer better options for the users than shouting into the void, attaching a bunch of hashtags and hoping that some of their followers or someone who is following one of the hashtags happens to be bothered to scroll down their timeline far enough.
You have to make sure that people don't miss content due to basic design and philosophy decisions. You have to make sure that people don't miss content because they simply never know that this content is there in the first place, because they can't scroll down far enough their timelines until they reach that content. You need something else than a timeline of single messages to scroll down with the user not having an idea just how far down that timeline goes. You have to tell the user how much unread content there is, what it is, where it is, and take the user directly to that unread content.
You have to stop presenting content to users as a long list of single posts and more single posts with only tiny details telling them that these posts are, in fact, part of a longer conversation which they don't see. Where they have to click or tap themselves through various UI pages to see that post in its context. Users must see the whole conversation Right. Off. The bat.
You need groups. Not kluged onto something that had no group support whatsoever two seconds earlier, not intentionally crippled, not crippled by the technology they're built upon, not intentionally re-invented to be incompatible with whatever already exists (and this is how Mastodon would do them). But fully functional, on an appropriate base, interoperable, user-moderated, optionally private, optionally hiding from directories.
If you want to go "social", you really have to go social. You have to go Facebook, not Twitter.
Users must find other users based on common interests. Or users living close to them. Or users with lots of contacts in common with them. Not by being on the same local/regional server of the same server about a certain topic. Not by searching for hashtags in the main profile text. But by examining specialised profile fields and the contacts.
Users must have such users suggested to them as new connections. Users must have such users at the top of their directory. This is how Facebook does it. And this is one thing that Facebook has always done right.
Again, Mastodon will never offer any of this. But that doesn't mean that you'll have to compromise and lower your expectations. Because you don't have to. There are server applications in the Fediverse, fully federated with Mastodon, that offer literally all of that. They exist right now. And some of them have existed for longer than Mastodon.
If you need something better than today's Mastodon, stop wishing for a better Mastodon. Instead, use something that's better and more appropriate for the job than Mastodon right now. For it exists right now.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #CharacterLimit #CharacterLimits #CharacterLimitMeta #CWCharacterLimitMeta #500Characters #CW #CWs #CWMeta #ContentWarning #ContentWarnings #ContentWarningMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #MastodonFediverse #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Privacy #Permission #Permissions #Groups #FediverseGroups #FediGroups #NomadicIdentity #MastodonCentricity #MastodonNormativity -
@Truth & Answers Let me be honest: Mastodon isn't the right thing to rely on for this.
There are two common misconceptions on Mastodon about Mastodon. The first one is that Mastodon is the only free, non-commercial, non-corporate, decentralised social anything. Once Mastodon users are over this, they still think Mastodon is the best free, non-commercial, non-corporate, decentralised social anything.
I've seen Mastodon being advertised by users as a Fediverse alternative to literally everything, including Reddit (because, like, you can communicate, right?) and even YouTube (because, like, you can upload videos, right?).
But again, let me be honest: The only thing that Mastodon can hope to be an alternative to is 𝕏. Because it's a Twitter clone. A purist Twitter clone whose developers intentionally reject feature requests because the requested features don't fit into their image of purist, minimalist, old-school, original-gangsta microblogging. They want to keep Mastodon a slightly more glorified SMS than 𝕏.
Mastodon isn't even the only microblogging server application in the Fediverse. It isn't even the best at that. 80-90% of Mastodon's users don't and probably will never realise that Mastodon is an intentionally crippled resource hog. Many believe that Mastodon is the fully-featured be-all, end-all of social networking.
By the way, even the Mastodon developers claim that Mastodon is fully featured. I've had a Mastodon dev try hard to convince me that Mastodon is fully featured although I've told him that I'm on Hubzilla. He essentially tried to tell me that Mastodon has every last feature that Hubzilla has plus even more on top.
In reality, Mastodon isn't the fully-featured be-all, end-all of social networking. It isn't even a social network. It's social media, just like 𝕏 is social media. It's designed for pumping out content and being followed because it's designed as a Twitter-like microblogging application. And it isn't even the best at microblogging.
Almost everyone on Mastodon is fully convinced that Mastodon has to be the best. After all, it's the biggest. It's what everyone chose.
No.
Mastodon is the biggest because everyone who wants to leave 𝕏 or Threads or Bluesky is railroaded to Mastodon. It's the biggest because all the newbies are only told about Mastodon. It's the biggest because none of the newbies even learn upon on-boarding that other 𝕏 alternatives exist in the Fediverse, that anything else exists in the Fediverse other than Mastodon. It's the biggest because mainstream media, tech media and even Fediverse activists only ever talk about Mastodon, Mastodon, Mastodon. (Granted, it's also the biggest because it's the only one with an official phone app in the Apple App Store and the Google Play Store. Even though that app sucks.)
All these Mastodon users who claim that Mastodon is the best choice don't realise that they themselves did, in fact, not choose Mastodon. They didn't know they had a choice. All they were told about was Mastodon. Seriously, if they'd had a choice, they'd probably be on Sharkey now and not on Mastodon.
I've read what people had to say who moved from Friendica to Misskey. Or to now defunct Calckey/Firefish. Or to Sharkey. Or to Akkoma. All these are microblogging server applications in the Fediverse. But none of them are intentionally crippled to stay close to Twitter, at least not to such a degree as Mastodon.
It was nothing short of eye-opening to them. Only by daily-driving something else than Mastodon did they realise what the non-Mastodon Fediverse can be like. And how crippled Mastodon actually is. That Mastodon is far from being the absolute pinnacle in decentralised social media.
They no longer had only 500 characters. They had thousands of characters. They would have had thousands of characters on every server running that software without having to ask around which one has more than 500 characters. It felt like a restraint being removed which they had never considered a restraint, at least not that much of it.
They saw text formatting which they considered technologically absolutely impossible in the Fediverse when they were on Mastodon. In fact, they had considered text formatting entirely impossible while on Mastodon until they had come across the first message from outside with text formatting. Actual text formatting, not Unicode trickery. Now they suddenly saw a lot of the stuff that Mastodon's HTML sanitiser removes. And they themselves could use it!
If they were on one of the *keys, they no longer had a timeline of single-message piecemeal. For the first time ever, they experienced what it's like to have something else than single-message piecemeal. Namely entire conversations right in front of them, right away. Without having to dig for them first.
They had features which they had always wished the Fediverse may introduce. They never knew that the Fediverse does have these features, only Mastodon doesn't. They had features that were completely unimagiable to them in the Fediverse.
There are users who have moved from Mastodon to something "minimalist" and lightweight like snac or GoToSocial, often on self-hosted, single-user, private servers. Even they suddenly had features they didn't have on Mastodon. Mind you, while not missing a single Mastodon feature (except maybe for a built-in Web UI).
And that's just the microblogging side of the Fediverse. None of this is actual social networking. You know, what Facebook does.
First of all, if it's about following and being followed, it's social media. A social network doesn't have followers. In case you don't know, Facebook doesn't have followers. It has "friends". Bidirectional connections. Not 𝕏/Mastodon-like mutuals which are two connections, one in each direction, but one connection that goes both ways.
Besides, there are even more important social networking features missing from the microblogging side of the Fediverse.
Where are the contact suggestions? Where does Mastodon suggest new contacts based on how many contacts you have in common with them? Where does Mastodon suggest new contacts based on what profile information you have in common with them?
Oh, right, the latter is impossible because Mastodon doesn't have profile fields with defined purposes. In fact, where are these? Every good social network has them! But Mastodon only gives you four all-purpose profile fields (just like Mastodon only gives you four of everything, four file attachments, four options in polls...).
Where is the list of unread posts, unread comments and other unnoticed actions? How are you to make sure you really catch everything your friends do? Because you can't do that if all you have is a timeline to scroll through until you no longer see new stuff. If you manage to scroll down that far. And only absolute newbies can do that on Mastodon because they hardly follow anyone.
Where are groups? Seriously, I've lost count of how many times Mastodon users said "the Fediverse" must introduce something like Facebook Groups. The huge majority of Mastodon users is fully convinced that the Fediverse does not have groups in any shape or form because Mastodon doesn't have them.
Where are all these things? In the Fediverse, no less? Where are they?
I'll tell you where they are.
Friendica. Hubzilla. (streams). Forte.
The actual social networking side of the Fediverse (although Hubzilla is more like a social CMS or a "social Swiss army knife" that you can also use as a Facebook-like social networking application). I mean, I've already explained that Friendica was created in 2010 as a Facebook alternative. Not a faithful Facebook clone, though, but better than Facebook.
Mike Macgirvin took over from Facebook what social networks really need. And Farmville isn't that, and spying on your users and passing that data on to the NSA and selling it to the highest bidder isn't that, so he didn't take over that. He didn't want to build a clone that also adopts the bad sides just to be as close to the original as possible.
He took over the detailed profiles with profile fields with dedicated purposes. He took over profile privacy settings. In general, he took over a lot of privacy features. He took over advanced user discovery and connection suggestions. He took over bidirectional connections, only without that silly name "friends". He took over groups with moderation, only that a group on Friendica is just another account with a special automated reposter. He took over enclosed threaded conversations with one post at the top and otherwise only comments. He took over a "timeline" of full conversations as the default. He took over the event calendar. And so forth.
Instead, he added useful stuff on top. He gave Friendica all the posting features to make it fully capable of long-form blogging with all bells and whistles. No character limit (except for in the database, but I think that was over 65,000 back in the day already). All HTML text formatting features (only that Friendica only used BBcode back then; now it can optionally also use Markdown). A post/thread title. Summaries. Embedded images and other media with no limit in number. He even added a spoiler tag like in forums that can hide parts of a message.
He took care of privacy beyond what Facebook had to offer. He introduced a permissions system. Friendica got multiple profile per account, only one of which is public, so that you can show different sides of yourself to different connections.
Now, if you want to embed images or other media in your messages, you have to store them somewhere. And not everyone could be expected to set up a little file space somewhere. So he built a file space into Friendica, one that can even be used as a Dropbox alternative, all the way to restricted access to certain directories.
Mike also added a content warning system that automatically generates content warnings on the reader's side, based on a keyword list. If you need something behind content warnings, add the keywords to the list, and you'll have the respective content warnings, but the next user receiving the self-same post or comment does not have these content warnings if they don't need them.
One important part of what makes Friendica Friendica is being able to connect to a whole lot of stuff. For example, Friendica could federate with StatusNet via the OStatus protocol from the get-go; this is also how it immediately federated with Mastodon when the latter was launched. Mastodon generates an RSS feed, something that many users don't know. Friendica not only generates an Atom feed, but it can subscribe to feeds. Friendica can "federate" with e-mail. Over time, more and more connection features were added, including Tumblr, Twitter (!), Facebook (only for a few years before Facebook crippled it) and a WordPress cross-poster.
Lastly, he made it possible for third parties to add extra features by implementing an add-on system.
I dare those who are fully convinced that Mastodon is the best Facebook alternative possible to use Friendica for a year. Not only dip one toe in to the water, but use it as their one and only daily driver for everything they've used Mastodon for. Not scratching the surface and using it like Twitter while ignoring any and all features the Twitter they remember didn't have, but going all in. In fact, I dare those who are fully convinced that Mastodon is perfect and fully-featured to do the same.
And then there's Hubzilla. It came to exist by Mike forking Friendica in 2011, then forking that fork the same year, then rewriting that fork of a fork in 2012, then repurposing, rebranding, repositioning and greatly expanding it in 2015. Long story.
Hubzilla adds even more stuff on top. Most importantly, it introduced nomadic identity (https://joinfediverse.wiki/Nomadic_identity) in 2012.
Hubzilla, or its 2012 prototype form named Red, became the first decentralised social software that uncoupled the identity from the login. This was necessary for nomadic identity, but it also introduced the option to have multiple independent identities, basically what's an account elsewhere, on the same account, the same login. This makes sense, given the many different roles and purposes a Hubzilla channel can have. The big advantage over having multiple separate accounts is that you can switch between the channels on your account without logging out and back in.
Hubzilla, or its 2012 prototype form named Red, got an even more advanced and fine-grained permissions system. Hubzilla has 17 individual permissions on three levels, channel level, contact level, content level. At channel level, each one has seven or eight permission options to choose from, depending on whether or not it makes sense to give a permission to everyone on the Internet.
Mike added optional features to Hubzilla that were previously unseen on social anything, features that you'd rather expect from a CMS and maybe not even from that. Non-federating long-form articles. Planning cards that are based on these articles. Wikis that can be formatted with BBcode or Markdown. Webpages that can be formatted with BBcode, Markdown or HTML, that can include dynamic content from elsewhere on the channel, and that can add extra content to the channel pages.
Hubzilla can even act as groupware. It has a CalDAV calendar server; the event calendar can double as a crude UI for the CalDAV calendars. It has an optional CardDAV addressbook server. Its built-in file storage can be accessed via WebDAV, so you theoretically even have some cloud file space you can mount as a network drive. Rather recently, there was even a way found to tie Collabora Office into Hubzilla.
If you should ever read about Bonfire: Bonfire is Hubzilla ordered from Wish.com. Whatever Bonfire promises to have or to introduce has been available as a rock-solid stable feature on Hubzilla for over a decade. Bonfire only gets away with what it's trying to do because nobody knows Hubzilla.
I think it's safe to say that those who "chose" Mastodon didn't choose it over the rest of the Fediverse because it's better. They "chose" it because they didn't even know they have a choice.
As for your post, the technology for redeveloping socialising is there. And it certainly isn't Mastodon, and it never will be Mastodon. Mastodon can't be that due to its design philosophy, due to it being a Twitter clone, due to its own developers intentionally crippling it.
If you want to move on from 1-way interaction, you have to move on from 1-way connections. Move on from Twitter followers to Facebook friends.
You have to offer better options for the users than shouting into the void, attaching a bunch of hashtags and hoping that some of their followers or someone who is following one of the hashtags happens to be bothered to scroll down their timeline far enough.
You have to make sure that people don't miss content due to basic design and philosophy decisions. You have to make sure that people don't miss content because they simply never know that this content is there in the first place, because they can't scroll down far enough their timelines until they reach that content. You need something else than a timeline of single messages to scroll down with the user not having an idea just how far down that timeline goes. You have to tell the user how much unread content there is, what it is, where it is, and take the user directly to that unread content.
You have to stop presenting content to users as a long list of single posts and more single posts with only tiny details telling them that these posts are, in fact, part of a longer conversation which they don't see. Where they have to click or tap themselves through various UI pages to see that post in its context. Users must see the whole conversation Right. Off. The bat.
You need groups. Not kluged onto something that had no group support whatsoever two seconds earlier, not intentionally crippled, not crippled by the technology they're built upon, not intentionally re-invented to be incompatible with whatever already exists (and this is how Mastodon would do them). But fully functional, on an appropriate base, interoperable, user-moderated, optionally private, optionally hiding from directories.
If you want to go "social", you really have to go social. You have to go Facebook, not Twitter.
Users must find other users based on common interests. Or users living close to them. Or users with lots of contacts in common with them. Not by being on the same local/regional server of the same server about a certain topic. Not by searching for hashtags in the main profile text. But by examining specialised profile fields and the contacts.
Users must have such users suggested to them as new connections. Users must have such users at the top of their directory. This is how Facebook does it. And this is one thing that Facebook has always done right.
Again, Mastodon will never offer any of this. But that doesn't mean that you'll have to compromise and lower your expectations. Because you don't have to. There are server applications in the Fediverse, fully federated with Mastodon, that offer literally all of that. They exist right now. And some of them have existed for longer than Mastodon.
If you need something better than today's Mastodon, stop wishing for a better Mastodon. Instead, use something that's better and more appropriate for the job than Mastodon right now. For it exists right now.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #CharacterLimit #CharacterLimits #CharacterLimitMeta #CWCharacterLimitMeta #500Characters #CW #CWs #CWMeta #ContentWarning #ContentWarnings #ContentWarningMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #MastodonFediverse #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Privacy #Permission #Permissions #Groups #FediverseGroups #FediGroups #NomadicIdentity #MastodonCentricity #MastodonNormativity -
@Truth & Answers I've just come across a toot from a Mastodon user who demanded that everyone who posts, quote, "on Mastodon," end quote, limit their posts to 500 characters.
This was far from being the first time I've read this very demand or similar demands. It just was the most recent time.
Where this comes from? Well, it has two sides.The Mastodon side
One side are Mastodon users. Not all of them, but most of them. Literally all of them were on-boarded onto Mastodon with the notion that Mastodon is its own enclosed network with nothing else in it. Those who pull them on board either think it's easier for them to understand if they aren't told about the non-Mastodon Fediverse, or they don't know about the non-Mastodon Fediverse themselves.
Some of these newbies think Mastodon is the network because they've never heard of the Fediverse. Others think the Fediverse is Mastodon and nothing else.
My estimation, and not only mine, is that more than 50% of all Mastodon users think the Fediverse consists of nothing else than Mastodon. A great deal of the rest thinks the Fediverse doesn't extend beyond Mastodon, Pixelfed and PeerTube. Not much anyway.
It doesn't help that Mastodon, unlike other Fediverse server applications such as Misskey, the Forkeys, Friendica, (streams) or Forte, does not tell its users which server app a message came from. It doesn't help either that Mastodon "sanitises" away quite a few things that'd make non-Mastodon messages a dead giveaway. So the huge majority of Mastodon users believe that if they see it on Mastodon, it came from Mastodon.
So these people are dropped into a network which they think is nothing but a purist, minimalist microblogging service with no more than 500 characters, and whose only differences from Twitter are the name, that it isn't just one website, that it isn't owned by Elon Musk, and that it isn't overrun by fascists.
They get used to it. They get used to only having a maximum of 500 characters. They get used to the CW field being the CW field. They get used to Mastodon's entire culture which they see as the be-all, end-all of online culture.
And then they come across a message with a whole lot over 500 characters for the first time. Something which, to their best knowledge, shouldn't exist in the Mastodon Fediverse. Something which mustn't exist in the Mastodon Fediverse.
Some don't have any idea how it could be possible to "toot" more than 500 characters "on Mastodon", and they ask how one can do that. Others believe that all these "long toots" come from hacked Mastodon servers. Either way, they often demand that these Mastodon users adhere to Mastodon's culture and Mastodon's unwritten rules and act like all good Mastodon users shall act. Including not "tooting" more than 500 characters "on Mastodon".
Both are being told that these "toots" aren't "toots" because they don't come from Mastodon. That the Fediverse is, in fact, not only Mastodon. That there's other server software in the Fediverse that has always been able to post way more than 500 characters.
That changes nothing for them. They still demand everyone in the Fediverse adhere to Mastodon's culture and Mastodon's unwritten rules and only to these, and that everyone in the Fediverse use whatever they use exactly like vanilla, unmodified Mastodon.
And they feel absolutely justified. According to their gospel, Gargron invented the Fediverse when he created Mastodon. And everything in the Fediverse that isn't Mastodon (once they discover that there is such stuff) has either been designed as an add-on glued onto Mastodon (Pixelfed, PeerTube), or it's an evil, savage intruder (everything that's capable of largely doing the same thing as Mastodon without being Mastodon).
The Fediverse is to Mastodon users what the ancient world was to the Romans. Mastodon is the Roman Empire. Literally the only place that has got something like culture. A few places have voluntarily joined the Roman Mastodon Empire. All the rest consists of primitive, savage, culture-less barbarians whose lands need to be conquered by force to bring them culture.The non-Mastodon side
The other side are the non-Mastodon users. This sounds harsh, but while Mastodon users act by faith and belief, non-Mastodon users act by knowledge. It's them who know what the Fediverse really is. That there has never been a point in history at which the Fediverse has only been Mastodon. And that culture does exist outside of Mastodon. Only that these cultures are different from Mastodon's culture, largely because they're geared towards the technical capabilities of the underlying software.
To non-Mastodon users, the Fediverse feels like the New World when the European conquerors and settlers arrived. They demanded the natives adopt European culture and convert to Catholic Christianty or face death. The natives actually already had cultures. Cultures that suited them and their surroundings much more than the culture lived in European cities. But the Europeans didn't acknowledge the natives' cultures as such, nor did they care.
From non-Mastodon users' point of view, Mastodon users act to them like the Europeans acted to the natives in their colonies-to-be.
A very good example, also because it's such an extreme example, has to be Friendica. In case you don't know, Friendica (https://friendi.ca; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendica; https://joinfediverse.wiki/Friendica) is a free, open-source, decentralised, federated Facebook alternative that first came out as early as May, 2010. Friendica developed a wholly different culture from Mastodon's because it's vastly different from Mastodon.
Mastodon's culture was mostly coined in mid-2022 by those who escaped from Elon Musk's announcement to buy out Twitter in February/March, 2022.
Friendica's culture was coined by its early users in 2010 already.
Mastodon users are mostly used to living in a Mastodon-only network with no connection to anything that isn't Mastodon. They believe that Mastodon and the Fediverse were designed as such, and that Friendica is an illegitimate intruder.
Friendica users are used to being able to connect to everything that moves, including Mastodon, including the whole Fediverse, no matter which iteration of the Fediverse, including diaspora*, and the some. That's because Friendica was designed from the ground up to be able to connect to a whole lot of stuff. It's part of its concept.
Mastodon users believe that Mastodon was there before anything.
Friendica users know that Friendica was there long before Mastodon, even before diaspora*, and that Friendica still wasn't the first.
Mastodon users are used to only having 500 characters. They still consider that a lot in comparison with Twitter's 280 characters.
Friendica users are used to not having any character limit whatsoever. Friendica's actual technical character limit is imposed by the maximum size of the message text database field, and that's over 16.7 million characters.
Mastodon users are used to chopping long posts into threads. It's what they expect. Actual long posts irritate them.
Friendica users are used to posting long post in one piece. It's what they expect. One and the same post being chopped up into itty-bitty bits irritate them.
Mastodon users are used to putting CWs in a dedicated CW field.
Friendica users are used to the self-same text field actually being a summary field (Friendica calls it "abstract"). While Mastodon got that field in 2017 as a pull request from a user, Friendica had it from the get-go, i.e. since 2010. And Friendica actually adopted it from Evan Prodromou's decentralised Twitter alternative StatusNet from 2008 with which Friendica was able to federate with from the get-go as well.
Mastodon users "know" that Gargron invented the CW field.
Friendica users actually do know for a fact that they've had the same field as a summary field since long before Mastodon was even made. There are still enough Friendica veterans around from before 2016.
This also means that Mastodon users are used to poster-side CWs which all readers get just the same.
Friendica users are used to CWs being automatically generated on the reader's side, individually for each reader, by an optional text filter.
In fact, Mastodon can do the same. But nobody knows, it came way too late to become part of Mastodon's culture (Mastodon 4.0 in October, 2022), it's too tedious to use, it probably isn't supported by that many phone apps, and next to nobody uses Mastodon's Web interface. In the meantime, Friendica has had this feature for some twelve years longer, and it's only an on-off switch and one editable keyword list.
Mastodon users are used to only having up to four images and to images always only being file attachments dangling below a post.
Friendica users are used to being able to embed a virtually unlimited number of images to a post. And to actually embed them, as in, with text above the image and text below the image and another image below that text and more text below that image. Theoretically, they could insert tiny images into lines of text. By the way, Mastodon refuses to display embedded images. It also rejects any file attachments beyond the first four. And up to version 4.0 from October, 2022, it didn't support any kind of text formatting and "sanitised" all message texts down to plain text.
This also means that Mastodon users are used to only having plain text or mucking around with Unicode characters for bold type and italics.
Friendica users are used to being able to not only see, but also post all sorts of text formatting that HTML is capable of.
Mastodon users are often deadly afraid of quote-posts because they only know quote-posts as a means of harassment and dogpiling on Twitter.
Friendica users, their entire culture being entirely unfazed by whatever has ever happened on Twitter, are absolutely used to always having had quote-posts at hand and to using quote-posts as a means of forwarding content. They had what Mastodon calls "quotes" years before they had what Mastodon calls "boosts" (and what many Mastodon users refer to as "retoots").
Mastodon users are used to conversations being loosely tied together from toots and to having to visibly mention all those whom they want to receive a reply.
Friendica users are used to having enclosed threaded conversations with only one post and otherwise only comments. They're also used to everyone in the conversation, i.e. everyone who has received the original post, automatically receiving every single last comment. They're used to always seeing the entire thread immediately as opposed to single-message piecemeal.
Mastodon users are used to shouting into the void with hashtags attached if they want to talk about a certain topic. It's the only way for them to do so.
Friendica users are used to having groups. Oh, and full-text search.The conflict
It should be obvious that these two types have a very high chance of not getting along, especially if the Mastodon user is fairly new and not used to there being stuff in the Fediverse that's nothing like Mastodon.
Mastodon users keep demanding that everyone else in the Fediverse live by Mastodon's culture and Mastodon's rules and only by these.
Mastodon users who have joined in 2026 keep ordering Friendica veterans who have joined in the early 2010s (before there was any Mastodon) to act like they're on Mastodon.
They demand these Friendica veterans fully adopt Mastodon's culture (which isn't even geared towards Friendica's set of features).
They indirectly demand these Friendica veterans give up their own culture (because they cannot comprehend that there can be any other culture in the Fediverse than Mastodon's, as in, that what Friendica has is a culture, even though it's different from Mastodon's).
They directly demand these Friendica veterans give up some 40% of the features they've been using for a decade and a half and indirectly demand they give up another 40% of these features.
They demand these Friendica veterans stop posting more than 500 characters at once.
They demand these Friendica veterans put CWs into their abstract field. (Again, they think that Gargron has invented this field from scratch as a CW field,)
They demand these Friendica veterans use their abstract field only for CWs.
They demand these Friendica veterans stop "spamming" hashtags that clearly aren't there for content discovery. (They cannot comprehend that these hashtags are there to trigger automatic reader-side CWs because the entire concept is completely alien to them.)
And so forth.
These Friendica veterans have been in the Fediverse for about a decade and a half. And suddently, these Mastodon newbies appear and tell them how to use Friendica.
Of course, these Mastodon newbies don't know a thing about Friendica. They think the Friendica veterans are Mastodon users, and they're telling them how to use Mastodon.
So the Friendica users tell them, no, they aren't on Mastodon. They're on Friendica which has got absolutely nothing to do with Mastodon.
Then the Mastodon newbies will believe that someone has created this weird Friendica thing after Mastodon was made (it can't possibly be any other way, right?9 and illegally hacked this Friendica thing into the Mastodon Fediverse. And whoever made Friendica omitted to make Friendica just like Mastodon.
Okay, now the Friendica users tell them that Friendica was launched in 2010, how long before Mastodon that was, and that they themselves have been around for much longer than Mastodon, too.
Now, either the Mastodon newbies will fail to comprehend that there can be anything in the Fediverse made before Mastodon if Gargron has invented the very technology. Or they think that the Fediverse was still created with Mastodon, and that Friendica still illegally intruded into the Mastodon Fediverse.
Either way, the Friendica veterans will have to adapt and act entirely by Mastodon's standards. This is the Mastodon Fediverse, Mastodon is the biggest software (if only by monthly active users, by the way), Mastodon has defined "the Fediverse culture", and thus it's the Mastodon users and only the Mastodon users who get to say how people have to act and behave in the Fediverse.
And then the Mastodon users wonder how there's so much Mastodon hatred on Friendica (and there actually is). How Friendica users complain about Mastodon users trying to force them to use Friendica like Mastodon. How Friendica users complain about Mastodon users chopping long posts into small bits. As if they had a choice. How Friendica users complain about CWs in whatever that abstract field is supposed to be. And so forth.
How dare the Friendica users complain? The Mastodon users are the good guys! It's them and only them who have a culture, who have rules, who know how to use the Fediverse!
By the way: It gets even worse between Mastodon and Lemmy.
Mastodon's culture is an idealised version of pre-Musk Twitter's culture with bits of Tumblr's SFW culture mixed in. That's because just about everyone on Mastodon originally came from Twitter, and most of them escaped from Elon Musk. They want Mastodon (and the Fediverse) be a better Twitter. It helps that Mastodon is still trying hard to be a Twitter clone.
Lemmy's culture, on the other hand, is a carbon copy of Reddit's culture. Lemmy is a Reddit clone that shares next to no features at all with Mastodon except for ActivityPub support. Next to all Lemmy users are former Redditors who left Reddit when Reddit started charging $20,000,000 for its client API, effectively killing off all third-party Reddit apps. They saw no reason in changing their culture because it wasn't the culture that drove them away. Hardly any of them were on Twitter, and almost none of them have ever been on Mastodon. Many think the Fediverse is Lemmy. Of the rest, many think the Fediverse is Lemmy with a side of PieFed.
Mastodon lives on hashtags even more than Twitter. Lemmy has zero support for hashtags because Reddit doesn't have any either, and neither does Hacker News.
Mastodon requires mentions to get replies to their recipients. One visible mention per recipient. Lemmy doesn't need mentions for this at all. Mentions on Lemmy only serve to, well, mention someone. Just like on Reddit.
And so forth.
It's actually easy to spot threads on Lemmy that were started by Mastodon users: The title is in the post text, or there's no title at all because the Mastodon users did as they always do: mention in the first line, then a new line because that looks prettier. Of course, there's a mention in the post text. And there's a bunch of hashtags strewn across the post text even though they don't even work. If you're very lucky, the hashtags are at the bottom, but most Mastodon users don't waste any of their 500 characters on that.
I hope you get a rough idea how much headbutting there is between Mastodon users who think that the Mastodon users rule supreme over the whole Fediverse and Lemmy community owners who do rule over the Lemmy communities which these Mastodon users have just posted into.Countermeasures
Both sides are actually taking countermeasures. The non-Mastodon side is more effective at it, though.
On Mastodon's side, there are very few single users who block every single non-Mastodon server they come across.
Countermeasures on the non-Mastodon side vary. They start with single users who block each Mastodon user who doesn't behave like they want them to behave, e.g. they block everyone who chops a long post into a thread at first trike.
Then there's Hubzilla, reworked from a fork of a fork of Friendica by Friendica's own creator. Hubzilla has always been based on its own protocol, Zot6 (Friendica's creator calls it an older version of Nomad). ActivityPub support is optional, on by default on new servers and off by default on new channels. The current devs won't change anything about that. Not only doesn't Hubzilla's technology allow for moving it to ActivityPub as its base protocol, but ActivityPub being optional is seen as a last-resort "drawbridge" for those to whom Mastodon has become unbearable.
Nowadays, Friendica's creator is working on two other applications in the same family. (streams) is a fork of a fork of three forks of a fork (of a fork?) of Hubzilla, and Forte is a fork of (streams). Both have an admin-side user agent filter. It can block entire Fediverse applications without having to hassle around with a URL list. It was mainly created and advertised as a means to permanently lock Threads out, even if Threads should change URLs. But it's also being advertised as being capable of blocking all of Mastodon, all present and future servers. Mastodon being intentially made barely compatible with the rest of the Fediverse is only one reason for this.
(streams) and Forte also have another admin-side filter which, when turned on, locks everything out that doesn't support enclosed threaded conversations. That's because server applications like Mastodon mess with the way that (streams), Forte and their ancestors handle conversations. Granted, when this is activated only to get rid of Mastodon, it causes quite a bit of collateral damage.
Generally, (streams) and Forte are very similar. The main difference is that Forte is entirely based on ActivityPub whereas (streams) is based on the current version of Nomad with ActivityPub still being optional. The reason why (streams) is kept around is for there to still be one of these applications with the same protocol-level "drawbridge" as Hubzilla. And in fact, the most important (streams) group used to have ActivityPub off with the intention to keep Mastodon out.
I guess there are still Mastodon users who absolutely defend and support Mastodon's way being forced upon the non-Mastodon Fediverse, and who are irritated or upset about non-Mastodon users being very defensive of their own non-Mastodon ways and refusing to adopt Mastodon's (allegedly much superior) culture instead of embracing it.
And I guess there are Mastodon users who feel absolutely entitled to get to every last Hubzilla and (streams) and Forte user unhindered and force them to use Hubzilla/(streams)/Forte exactly like Mastodon in every way possible.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #CharacterLimit #CharacterLimits #CharacterLimitMeta #CWCharacterLimitMeta #500Characters #CW #CWs #CWMeta #ContentWarning #ContentWarnings #ContentWarningMeta #Hashtag #Hashtags #HashtagMeta #CWHashtagMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #MastodonFediverse #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Lemmy #MastodonCulture #FediverseCulture #MastodonCentricity #MastodonNormativity -
@Truth & Answers I've just come across a toot from a Mastodon user who demanded that everyone who posts, quote, "on Mastodon," end quote, limit their posts to 500 characters.
This was far from being the first time I've read this very demand or similar demands. It just was the most recent time.
Where this comes from? Well, it has two sides.The Mastodon side
One side are Mastodon users. Not all of them, but most of them. Literally all of them were on-boarded onto Mastodon with the notion that Mastodon is its own enclosed network with nothing else in it. Those who pull them on board either think it's easier for them to understand if they aren't told about the non-Mastodon Fediverse, or they don't know about the non-Mastodon Fediverse themselves.
Some of these newbies think Mastodon is the network because they've never heard of the Fediverse. Others think the Fediverse is Mastodon and nothing else.
My estimation, and not only mine, is that more than 50% of all Mastodon users think the Fediverse consists of nothing else than Mastodon. A great deal of the rest thinks the Fediverse doesn't extend beyond Mastodon, Pixelfed and PeerTube. Not much anyway.
It doesn't help that Mastodon, unlike other Fediverse server applications such as Misskey, the Forkeys, Friendica, (streams) or Forte, does not tell its users which server app a message came from. It doesn't help either that Mastodon "sanitises" away quite a few things that'd make non-Mastodon messages a dead giveaway. So the huge majority of Mastodon users believe that if they see it on Mastodon, it came from Mastodon.
So these people are dropped into a network which they think is nothing but a purist, minimalist microblogging service with no more than 500 characters, and whose only differences from Twitter are the name, that it isn't just one website, that it isn't owned by Elon Musk, and that it isn't overrun by fascists.
They get used to it. They get used to only having a maximum of 500 characters. They get used to the CW field being the CW field. They get used to Mastodon's entire culture which they see as the be-all, end-all of online culture.
And then they come across a message with a whole lot over 500 characters for the first time. Something which, to their best knowledge, shouldn't exist in the Mastodon Fediverse. Something which mustn't exist in the Mastodon Fediverse.
Some don't have any idea how it could be possible to "toot" more than 500 characters "on Mastodon", and they ask how one can do that. Others believe that all these "long toots" come from hacked Mastodon servers. Either way, they often demand that these Mastodon users adhere to Mastodon's culture and Mastodon's unwritten rules and act like all good Mastodon users shall act. Including not "tooting" more than 500 characters "on Mastodon".
Both are being told that these "toots" aren't "toots" because they don't come from Mastodon. That the Fediverse is, in fact, not only Mastodon. That there's other server software in the Fediverse that has always been able to post way more than 500 characters.
That changes nothing for them. They still demand everyone in the Fediverse adhere to Mastodon's culture and Mastodon's unwritten rules and only to these, and that everyone in the Fediverse use whatever they use exactly like vanilla, unmodified Mastodon.
And they feel absolutely justified. According to their gospel, Gargron invented the Fediverse when he created Mastodon. And everything in the Fediverse that isn't Mastodon (once they discover that there is such stuff) has either been designed as an add-on glued onto Mastodon (Pixelfed, PeerTube), or it's an evil, savage intruder (everything that's capable of largely doing the same thing as Mastodon without being Mastodon).
The Fediverse is to Mastodon users what the ancient world was to the Romans. Mastodon is the Roman Empire. Literally the only place that has got something like culture. A few places have voluntarily joined the Roman Mastodon Empire. All the rest consists of primitive, savage, culture-less barbarians whose lands need to be conquered by force to bring them culture.The non-Mastodon side
The other side are the non-Mastodon users. This sounds harsh, but while Mastodon users act by faith and belief, non-Mastodon users act by knowledge. It's them who know what the Fediverse really is. That there has never been a point in history at which the Fediverse has only been Mastodon. And that culture does exist outside of Mastodon. Only that these cultures are different from Mastodon's culture, largely because they're geared towards the technical capabilities of the underlying software.
To non-Mastodon users, the Fediverse feels like the New World when the European conquerors and settlers arrived. They demanded the natives adopt European culture and convert to Catholic Christianty or face death. The natives actually already had cultures. Cultures that suited them and their surroundings much more than the culture lived in European cities. But the Europeans didn't acknowledge the natives' cultures as such, nor did they care.
From non-Mastodon users' point of view, Mastodon users act to them like the Europeans acted to the natives in their colonies-to-be.
A very good example, also because it's such an extreme example, has to be Friendica. In case you don't know, Friendica (https://friendi.ca; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendica; https://joinfediverse.wiki/Friendica) is a free, open-source, decentralised, federated Facebook alternative that first came out as early as May, 2010. Friendica developed a wholly different culture from Mastodon's because it's vastly different from Mastodon.
Mastodon's culture was mostly coined in mid-2022 by those who escaped from Elon Musk's announcement to buy out Twitter in February/March, 2022.
Friendica's culture was coined by its early users in 2010 already.
Mastodon users are mostly used to living in a Mastodon-only network with no connection to anything that isn't Mastodon. They believe that Mastodon and the Fediverse were designed as such, and that Friendica is an illegitimate intruder.
Friendica users are used to being able to connect to everything that moves, including Mastodon, including the whole Fediverse, no matter which iteration of the Fediverse, including diaspora*, and the some. That's because Friendica was designed from the ground up to be able to connect to a whole lot of stuff. It's part of its concept.
Mastodon users believe that Mastodon was there before anything.
Friendica users know that Friendica was there long before Mastodon, even before diaspora*, and that Friendica still wasn't the first.
Mastodon users are used to only having 500 characters. They still consider that a lot in comparison with Twitter's 280 characters.
Friendica users are used to not having any character limit whatsoever. Friendica's actual technical character limit is imposed by the maximum size of the message text database field, and that's over 16.7 million characters.
Mastodon users are used to chopping long posts into threads. It's what they expect. Actual long posts irritate them.
Friendica users are used to posting long post in one piece. It's what they expect. One and the same post being chopped up into itty-bitty bits irritate them.
Mastodon users are used to putting CWs in a dedicated CW field.
Friendica users are used to the self-same text field actually being a summary field (Friendica calls it "abstract"). While Mastodon got that field in 2017 as a pull request from a user, Friendica had it from the get-go, i.e. since 2010. And Friendica actually adopted it from Evan Prodromou's decentralised Twitter alternative StatusNet from 2008 with which Friendica was able to federate with from the get-go as well.
Mastodon users "know" that Gargron invented the CW field.
Friendica users actually do know for a fact that they've had the same field as a summary field since long before Mastodon was even made. There are still enough Friendica veterans around from before 2016.
This also means that Mastodon users are used to poster-side CWs which all readers get just the same.
Friendica users are used to CWs being automatically generated on the reader's side, individually for each reader, by an optional text filter.
In fact, Mastodon can do the same. But nobody knows, it came way too late to become part of Mastodon's culture (Mastodon 4.0 in October, 2022), it's too tedious to use, it probably isn't supported by that many phone apps, and next to nobody uses Mastodon's Web interface. In the meantime, Friendica has had this feature for some twelve years longer, and it's only an on-off switch and one editable keyword list.
Mastodon users are used to only having up to four images and to images always only being file attachments dangling below a post.
Friendica users are used to being able to embed a virtually unlimited number of images to a post. And to actually embed them, as in, with text above the image and text below the image and another image below that text and more text below that image. Theoretically, they could insert tiny images into lines of text. By the way, Mastodon refuses to display embedded images. It also rejects any file attachments beyond the first four. And up to version 4.0 from October, 2022, it didn't support any kind of text formatting and "sanitised" all message texts down to plain text.
This also means that Mastodon users are used to only having plain text or mucking around with Unicode characters for bold type and italics.
Friendica users are used to being able to not only see, but also post all sorts of text formatting that HTML is capable of.
Mastodon users are often deadly afraid of quote-posts because they only know quote-posts as a means of harassment and dogpiling on Twitter.
Friendica users, their entire culture being entirely unfazed by whatever has ever happened on Twitter, are absolutely used to always having had quote-posts at hand and to using quote-posts as a means of forwarding content. They had what Mastodon calls "quotes" years before they had what Mastodon calls "boosts" (and what many Mastodon users refer to as "retoots").
Mastodon users are used to conversations being loosely tied together from toots and to having to visibly mention all those whom they want to receive a reply.
Friendica users are used to having enclosed threaded conversations with only one post and otherwise only comments. They're also used to everyone in the conversation, i.e. everyone who has received the original post, automatically receiving every single last comment. They're used to always seeing the entire thread immediately as opposed to single-message piecemeal.
Mastodon users are used to shouting into the void with hashtags attached if they want to talk about a certain topic. It's the only way for them to do so.
Friendica users are used to having groups. Oh, and full-text search.The conflict
It should be obvious that these two types have a very high chance of not getting along, especially if the Mastodon user is fairly new and not used to there being stuff in the Fediverse that's nothing like Mastodon.
Mastodon users keep demanding that everyone else in the Fediverse live by Mastodon's culture and Mastodon's rules and only by these.
Mastodon users who have joined in 2026 keep ordering Friendica veterans who have joined in the early 2010s (before there was any Mastodon) to act like they're on Mastodon.
They demand these Friendica veterans fully adopt Mastodon's culture (which isn't even geared towards Friendica's set of features).
They indirectly demand these Friendica veterans give up their own culture (because they cannot comprehend that there can be any other culture in the Fediverse than Mastodon's, as in, that what Friendica has is a culture, even though it's different from Mastodon's).
They directly demand these Friendica veterans give up some 40% of the features they've been using for a decade and a half and indirectly demand they give up another 40% of these features.
They demand these Friendica veterans stop posting more than 500 characters at once.
They demand these Friendica veterans put CWs into their abstract field. (Again, they think that Gargron has invented this field from scratch as a CW field,)
They demand these Friendica veterans use their abstract field only for CWs.
They demand these Friendica veterans stop "spamming" hashtags that clearly aren't there for content discovery. (They cannot comprehend that these hashtags are there to trigger automatic reader-side CWs because the entire concept is completely alien to them.)
And so forth.
These Friendica veterans have been in the Fediverse for about a decade and a half. And suddently, these Mastodon newbies appear and tell them how to use Friendica.
Of course, these Mastodon newbies don't know a thing about Friendica. They think the Friendica veterans are Mastodon users, and they're telling them how to use Mastodon.
So the Friendica users tell them, no, they aren't on Mastodon. They're on Friendica which has got absolutely nothing to do with Mastodon.
Then the Mastodon newbies will believe that someone has created this weird Friendica thing after Mastodon was made (it can't possibly be any other way, right?9 and illegally hacked this Friendica thing into the Mastodon Fediverse. And whoever made Friendica omitted to make Friendica just like Mastodon.
Okay, now the Friendica users tell them that Friendica was launched in 2010, how long before Mastodon that was, and that they themselves have been around for much longer than Mastodon, too.
Now, either the Mastodon newbies will fail to comprehend that there can be anything in the Fediverse made before Mastodon if Gargron has invented the very technology. Or they think that the Fediverse was still created with Mastodon, and that Friendica still illegally intruded into the Mastodon Fediverse.
Either way, the Friendica veterans will have to adapt and act entirely by Mastodon's standards. This is the Mastodon Fediverse, Mastodon is the biggest software (if only by monthly active users, by the way), Mastodon has defined "the Fediverse culture", and thus it's the Mastodon users and only the Mastodon users who get to say how people have to act and behave in the Fediverse.
And then the Mastodon users wonder how there's so much Mastodon hatred on Friendica (and there actually is). How Friendica users complain about Mastodon users trying to force them to use Friendica like Mastodon. How Friendica users complain about Mastodon users chopping long posts into small bits. As if they had a choice. How Friendica users complain about CWs in whatever that abstract field is supposed to be. And so forth.
How dare the Friendica users complain? The Mastodon users are the good guys! It's them and only them who have a culture, who have rules, who know how to use the Fediverse!
By the way: It gets even worse between Mastodon and Lemmy.
Mastodon's culture is an idealised version of pre-Musk Twitter's culture with bits of Tumblr's SFW culture mixed in. That's because just about everyone on Mastodon originally came from Twitter, and most of them escaped from Elon Musk. They want Mastodon (and the Fediverse) be a better Twitter. It helps that Mastodon is still trying hard to be a Twitter clone.
Lemmy's culture, on the other hand, is a carbon copy of Reddit's culture. Lemmy is a Reddit clone that shares next to no features at all with Mastodon except for ActivityPub support. Next to all Lemmy users are former Redditors who left Reddit when Reddit started charging $20,000,000 for its client API, effectively killing off all third-party Reddit apps. They saw no reason in changing their culture because it wasn't the culture that drove them away. Hardly any of them were on Twitter, and almost none of them have ever been on Mastodon. Many think the Fediverse is Lemmy. Of the rest, many think the Fediverse is Lemmy with a side of PieFed.
Mastodon lives on hashtags even more than Twitter. Lemmy has zero support for hashtags because Reddit doesn't have any either, and neither does Hacker News.
Mastodon requires mentions to get replies to their recipients. One visible mention per recipient. Lemmy doesn't need mentions for this at all. Mentions on Lemmy only serve to, well, mention someone. Just like on Reddit.
And so forth.
It's actually easy to spot threads on Lemmy that were started by Mastodon users: The title is in the post text, or there's no title at all because the Mastodon users did as they always do: mention in the first line, then a new line because that looks prettier. Of course, there's a mention in the post text. And there's a bunch of hashtags strewn across the post text even though they don't even work. If you're very lucky, the hashtags are at the bottom, but most Mastodon users don't waste any of their 500 characters on that.
I hope you get a rough idea how much headbutting there is between Mastodon users who think that the Mastodon users rule supreme over the whole Fediverse and Lemmy community owners who do rule over the Lemmy communities which these Mastodon users have just posted into.Countermeasures
Both sides are actually taking countermeasures. The non-Mastodon side is more effective at it, though.
On Mastodon's side, there are very few single users who block every single non-Mastodon server they come across.
Countermeasures on the non-Mastodon side vary. They start with single users who block each Mastodon user who doesn't behave like they want them to behave, e.g. they block everyone who chops a long post into a thread at first trike.
Then there's Hubzilla, reworked from a fork of a fork of Friendica by Friendica's own creator. Hubzilla has always been based on its own protocol, Zot6 (Friendica's creator calls it an older version of Nomad). ActivityPub support is optional, on by default on new servers and off by default on new channels. The current devs won't change anything about that. Not only doesn't Hubzilla's technology allow for moving it to ActivityPub as its base protocol, but ActivityPub being optional is seen as a last-resort "drawbridge" for those to whom Mastodon has become unbearable.
Nowadays, Friendica's creator is working on two other applications in the same family. (streams) is a fork of a fork of three forks of a fork (of a fork?) of Hubzilla, and Forte is a fork of (streams). Both have an admin-side user agent filter. It can block entire Fediverse applications without having to hassle around with a URL list. It was mainly created and advertised as a means to permanently lock Threads out, even if Threads should change URLs. But it's also being advertised as being capable of blocking all of Mastodon, all present and future servers. Mastodon being intentially made barely compatible with the rest of the Fediverse is only one reason for this.
(streams) and Forte also have another admin-side filter which, when turned on, locks everything out that doesn't support enclosed threaded conversations. That's because server applications like Mastodon mess with the way that (streams), Forte and their ancestors handle conversations. Granted, when this is activated only to get rid of Mastodon, it causes quite a bit of collateral damage.
Generally, (streams) and Forte are very similar. The main difference is that Forte is entirely based on ActivityPub whereas (streams) is based on the current version of Nomad with ActivityPub still being optional. The reason why (streams) is kept around is for there to still be one of these applications with the same protocol-level "drawbridge" as Hubzilla. And in fact, the most important (streams) group used to have ActivityPub off with the intention to keep Mastodon out.
I guess there are still Mastodon users who absolutely defend and support Mastodon's way being forced upon the non-Mastodon Fediverse, and who are irritated or upset about non-Mastodon users being very defensive of their own non-Mastodon ways and refusing to adopt Mastodon's (allegedly much superior) culture instead of embracing it.
And I guess there are Mastodon users who feel absolutely entitled to get to every last Hubzilla and (streams) and Forte user unhindered and force them to use Hubzilla/(streams)/Forte exactly like Mastodon in every way possible.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #CharacterLimit #CharacterLimits #CharacterLimitMeta #CWCharacterLimitMeta #500Characters #CW #CWs #CWMeta #ContentWarning #ContentWarnings #ContentWarningMeta #Hashtag #Hashtags #HashtagMeta #CWHashtagMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #MastodonFediverse #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Lemmy #MastodonCulture #FediverseCulture #MastodonCentricity #MastodonNormativity -
@Truth & Answers I've just come across a toot from a Mastodon user who demanded that everyone who posts, quote, "on Mastodon," end quote, limit their posts to 500 characters.
This was far from being the first time I've read this very demand or similar demands. It just was the most recent time.
Where this comes from? Well, it has two sides.The Mastodon side
One side are Mastodon users. Not all of them, but most of them. Literally all of them were on-boarded onto Mastodon with the notion that Mastodon is its own enclosed network with nothing else in it. Those who pull them on board either think it's easier for them to understand if they aren't told about the non-Mastodon Fediverse, or they don't know about the non-Mastodon Fediverse themselves.
Some of these newbies think Mastodon is the network because they've never heard of the Fediverse. Others think the Fediverse is Mastodon and nothing else.
My estimation, and not only mine, is that more than 50% of all Mastodon users think the Fediverse consists of nothing else than Mastodon. A great deal of the rest thinks the Fediverse doesn't extend beyond Mastodon, Pixelfed and PeerTube. Not much anyway.
It doesn't help that Mastodon, unlike other Fediverse server applications such as Misskey, the Forkeys, Friendica, (streams) or Forte, does not tell its users which server app a message came from. It doesn't help either that Mastodon "sanitises" away quite a few things that'd make non-Mastodon messages a dead giveaway. So the huge majority of Mastodon users believe that if they see it on Mastodon, it came from Mastodon.
So these people are dropped into a network which they think is nothing but a purist, minimalist microblogging service with no more than 500 characters, and whose only differences from Twitter are the name, that it isn't just one website, that it isn't owned by Elon Musk, and that it isn't overrun by fascists.
They get used to it. They get used to only having a maximum of 500 characters. They get used to the CW field being the CW field. They get used to Mastodon's entire culture which they see as the be-all, end-all of online culture.
And then they come across a message with a whole lot over 500 characters for the first time. Something which, to their best knowledge, shouldn't exist in the Mastodon Fediverse. Something which mustn't exist in the Mastodon Fediverse.
Some don't have any idea how it could be possible to "toot" more than 500 characters "on Mastodon", and they ask how one can do that. Others believe that all these "long toots" come from hacked Mastodon servers. Either way, they often demand that these Mastodon users adhere to Mastodon's culture and Mastodon's unwritten rules and act like all good Mastodon users shall act. Including not "tooting" more than 500 characters "on Mastodon".
Both are being told that these "toots" aren't "toots" because they don't come from Mastodon. That the Fediverse is, in fact, not only Mastodon. That there's other server software in the Fediverse that has always been able to post way more than 500 characters.
That changes nothing for them. They still demand everyone in the Fediverse adhere to Mastodon's culture and Mastodon's unwritten rules and only to these, and that everyone in the Fediverse use whatever they use exactly like vanilla, unmodified Mastodon.
And they feel absolutely justified. According to their gospel, Gargron invented the Fediverse when he created Mastodon. And everything in the Fediverse that isn't Mastodon (once they discover that there is such stuff) has either been designed as an add-on glued onto Mastodon (Pixelfed, PeerTube), or it's an evil, savage intruder (everything that's capable of largely doing the same thing as Mastodon without being Mastodon).
The Fediverse is to Mastodon users what the ancient world was to the Romans. Mastodon is the Roman Empire. Literally the only place that has got something like culture. A few places have voluntarily joined the Roman Mastodon Empire. All the rest consists of primitive, savage, culture-less barbarians whose lands need to be conquered by force to bring them culture.The non-Mastodon side
The other side are the non-Mastodon users. This sounds harsh, but while Mastodon users act by faith and belief, non-Mastodon users act by knowledge. It's them who know what the Fediverse really is. That there has never been a point in history at which the Fediverse has only been Mastodon. And that culture does exist outside of Mastodon. Only that these cultures are different from Mastodon's culture, largely because they're geared towards the technical capabilities of the underlying software.
To non-Mastodon users, the Fediverse feels like the New World when the European conquerors and settlers arrived. They demanded the natives adopt European culture and convert to Catholic Christianty or face death. The natives actually already had cultures. Cultures that suited them and their surroundings much more than the culture lived in European cities. But the Europeans didn't acknowledge the natives' cultures as such, nor did they care.
From non-Mastodon users' point of view, Mastodon users act to them like the Europeans acted to the natives in their colonies-to-be.
A very good example, also because it's such an extreme example, has to be Friendica. In case you don't know, Friendica (https://friendi.ca; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendica; https://joinfediverse.wiki/Friendica) is a free, open-source, decentralised, federated Facebook alternative that first came out as early as May, 2010. Friendica developed a wholly different culture from Mastodon's because it's vastly different from Mastodon.
Mastodon's culture was mostly coined in mid-2022 by those who escaped from Elon Musk's announcement to buy out Twitter in February/March, 2022.
Friendica's culture was coined by its early users in 2010 already.
Mastodon users are mostly used to living in a Mastodon-only network with no connection to anything that isn't Mastodon. They believe that Mastodon and the Fediverse were designed as such, and that Friendica is an illegitimate intruder.
Friendica users are used to being able to connect to everything that moves, including Mastodon, including the whole Fediverse, no matter which iteration of the Fediverse, including diaspora*, and the some. That's because Friendica was designed from the ground up to be able to connect to a whole lot of stuff. It's part of its concept.
Mastodon users believe that Mastodon was there before anything.
Friendica users know that Friendica was there long before Mastodon, even before diaspora*, and that Friendica still wasn't the first.
Mastodon users are used to only having 500 characters. They still consider that a lot in comparison with Twitter's 280 characters.
Friendica users are used to not having any character limit whatsoever. Friendica's actual technical character limit is imposed by the maximum size of the message text database field, and that's over 16.7 million characters.
Mastodon users are used to chopping long posts into threads. It's what they expect. Actual long posts irritate them.
Friendica users are used to posting long post in one piece. It's what they expect. One and the same post being chopped up into itty-bitty bits irritate them.
Mastodon users are used to putting CWs in a dedicated CW field.
Friendica users are used to the self-same text field actually being a summary field (Friendica calls it "abstract"). While Mastodon got that field in 2017 as a pull request from a user, Friendica had it from the get-go, i.e. since 2010. And Friendica actually adopted it from Evan Prodromou's decentralised Twitter alternative StatusNet from 2008 with which Friendica was able to federate with from the get-go as well.
Mastodon users "know" that Gargron invented the CW field.
Friendica users actually do know for a fact that they've had the same field as a summary field since long before Mastodon was even made. There are still enough Friendica veterans around from before 2016.
This also means that Mastodon users are used to poster-side CWs which all readers get just the same.
Friendica users are used to CWs being automatically generated on the reader's side, individually for each reader, by an optional text filter.
In fact, Mastodon can do the same. But nobody knows, it came way too late to become part of Mastodon's culture (Mastodon 4.0 in October, 2022), it's too tedious to use, it probably isn't supported by that many phone apps, and next to nobody uses Mastodon's Web interface. In the meantime, Friendica has had this feature for some twelve years longer, and it's only an on-off switch and one editable keyword list.
Mastodon users are used to only having up to four images and to images always only being file attachments dangling below a post.
Friendica users are used to being able to embed a virtually unlimited number of images to a post. And to actually embed them, as in, with text above the image and text below the image and another image below that text and more text below that image. Theoretically, they could insert tiny images into lines of text. By the way, Mastodon refuses to display embedded images. It also rejects any file attachments beyond the first four. And up to version 4.0 from October, 2022, it didn't support any kind of text formatting and "sanitised" all message texts down to plain text.
This also means that Mastodon users are used to only having plain text or mucking around with Unicode characters for bold type and italics.
Friendica users are used to being able to not only see, but also post all sorts of text formatting that HTML is capable of.
Mastodon users are often deadly afraid of quote-posts because they only know quote-posts as a means of harassment and dogpiling on Twitter.
Friendica users, their entire culture being entirely unfazed by whatever has ever happened on Twitter, are absolutely used to always having had quote-posts at hand and to using quote-posts as a means of forwarding content. They had what Mastodon calls "quotes" years before they had what Mastodon calls "boosts" (and what many Mastodon users refer to as "retoots").
Mastodon users are used to conversations being loosely tied together from toots and to having to visibly mention all those whom they want to receive a reply.
Friendica users are used to having enclosed threaded conversations with only one post and otherwise only comments. They're also used to everyone in the conversation, i.e. everyone who has received the original post, automatically receiving every single last comment. They're used to always seeing the entire thread immediately as opposed to single-message piecemeal.
Mastodon users are used to shouting into the void with hashtags attached if they want to talk about a certain topic. It's the only way for them to do so.
Friendica users are used to having groups. Oh, and full-text search.The conflict
It should be obvious that these two types have a very high chance of not getting along, especially if the Mastodon user is fairly new and not used to there being stuff in the Fediverse that's nothing like Mastodon.
Mastodon users keep demanding that everyone else in the Fediverse live by Mastodon's culture and Mastodon's rules and only by these.
Mastodon users who have joined in 2026 keep ordering Friendica veterans who have joined in the early 2010s (before there was any Mastodon) to act like they're on Mastodon.
They demand these Friendica veterans fully adopt Mastodon's culture (which isn't even geared towards Friendica's set of features).
They indirectly demand these Friendica veterans give up their own culture (because they cannot comprehend that there can be any other culture in the Fediverse than Mastodon's, as in, that what Friendica has is a culture, even though it's different from Mastodon's).
They directly demand these Friendica veterans give up some 40% of the features they've been using for a decade and a half and indirectly demand they give up another 40% of these features.
They demand these Friendica veterans stop posting more than 500 characters at once.
They demand these Friendica veterans put CWs into their abstract field. (Again, they think that Gargron has invented this field from scratch as a CW field,)
They demand these Friendica veterans use their abstract field only for CWs.
They demand these Friendica veterans stop "spamming" hashtags that clearly aren't there for content discovery. (They cannot comprehend that these hashtags are there to trigger automatic reader-side CWs because the entire concept is completely alien to them.)
And so forth.
These Friendica veterans have been in the Fediverse for about a decade and a half. And suddently, these Mastodon newbies appear and tell them how to use Friendica.
Of course, these Mastodon newbies don't know a thing about Friendica. They think the Friendica veterans are Mastodon users, and they're telling them how to use Mastodon.
So the Friendica users tell them, no, they aren't on Mastodon. They're on Friendica which has got absolutely nothing to do with Mastodon.
Then the Mastodon newbies will believe that someone has created this weird Friendica thing after Mastodon was made (it can't possibly be any other way, right?9 and illegally hacked this Friendica thing into the Mastodon Fediverse. And whoever made Friendica omitted to make Friendica just like Mastodon.
Okay, now the Friendica users tell them that Friendica was launched in 2010, how long before Mastodon that was, and that they themselves have been around for much longer than Mastodon, too.
Now, either the Mastodon newbies will fail to comprehend that there can be anything in the Fediverse made before Mastodon if Gargron has invented the very technology. Or they think that the Fediverse was still created with Mastodon, and that Friendica still illegally intruded into the Mastodon Fediverse.
Either way, the Friendica veterans will have to adapt and act entirely by Mastodon's standards. This is the Mastodon Fediverse, Mastodon is the biggest software (if only by monthly active users, by the way), Mastodon has defined "the Fediverse culture", and thus it's the Mastodon users and only the Mastodon users who get to say how people have to act and behave in the Fediverse.
And then the Mastodon users wonder how there's so much Mastodon hatred on Friendica (and there actually is). How Friendica users complain about Mastodon users trying to force them to use Friendica like Mastodon. How Friendica users complain about Mastodon users chopping long posts into small bits. As if they had a choice. How Friendica users complain about CWs in whatever that abstract field is supposed to be. And so forth.
How dare the Friendica users complain? The Mastodon users are the good guys! It's them and only them who have a culture, who have rules, who know how to use the Fediverse!
By the way: It gets even worse between Mastodon and Lemmy.
Mastodon's culture is an idealised version of pre-Musk Twitter's culture with bits of Tumblr's SFW culture mixed in. That's because just about everyone on Mastodon originally came from Twitter, and most of them escaped from Elon Musk. They want Mastodon (and the Fediverse) be a better Twitter. It helps that Mastodon is still trying hard to be a Twitter clone.
Lemmy's culture, on the other hand, is a carbon copy of Reddit's culture. Lemmy is a Reddit clone that shares next to no features at all with Mastodon except for ActivityPub support. Next to all Lemmy users are former Redditors who left Reddit when Reddit started charging $20,000,000 for its client API, effectively killing off all third-party Reddit apps. They saw no reason in changing their culture because it wasn't the culture that drove them away. Hardly any of them were on Twitter, and almost none of them have ever been on Mastodon. Many think the Fediverse is Lemmy. Of the rest, many think the Fediverse is Lemmy with a side of PieFed.
Mastodon lives on hashtags even more than Twitter. Lemmy has zero support for hashtags because Reddit doesn't have any either, and neither does Hacker News.
Mastodon requires mentions to get replies to their recipients. One visible mention per recipient. Lemmy doesn't need mentions for this at all. Mentions on Lemmy only serve to, well, mention someone. Just like on Reddit.
And so forth.
It's actually easy to spot threads on Lemmy that were started by Mastodon users: The title is in the post text, or there's no title at all because the Mastodon users did as they always do: mention in the first line, then a new line because that looks prettier. Of course, there's a mention in the post text. And there's a bunch of hashtags strewn across the post text even though they don't even work. If you're very lucky, the hashtags are at the bottom, but most Mastodon users don't waste any of their 500 characters on that.
I hope you get a rough idea how much headbutting there is between Mastodon users who think that the Mastodon users rule supreme over the whole Fediverse and Lemmy community owners who do rule over the Lemmy communities which these Mastodon users have just posted into.Countermeasures
Both sides are actually taking countermeasures. The non-Mastodon side is more effective at it, though.
On Mastodon's side, there are very few single users who block every single non-Mastodon server they come across.
Countermeasures on the non-Mastodon side vary. They start with single users who block each Mastodon user who doesn't behave like they want them to behave, e.g. they block everyone who chops a long post into a thread at first trike.
Then there's Hubzilla, reworked from a fork of a fork of Friendica by Friendica's own creator. Hubzilla has always been based on its own protocol, Zot6 (Friendica's creator calls it an older version of Nomad). ActivityPub support is optional, on by default on new servers and off by default on new channels. The current devs won't change anything about that. Not only doesn't Hubzilla's technology allow for moving it to ActivityPub as its base protocol, but ActivityPub being optional is seen as a last-resort "drawbridge" for those to whom Mastodon has become unbearable.
Nowadays, Friendica's creator is working on two other applications in the same family. (streams) is a fork of a fork of three forks of a fork (of a fork?) of Hubzilla, and Forte is a fork of (streams). Both have an admin-side user agent filter. It can block entire Fediverse applications without having to hassle around with a URL list. It was mainly created and advertised as a means to permanently lock Threads out, even if Threads should change URLs. But it's also being advertised as being capable of blocking all of Mastodon, all present and future servers. Mastodon being intentially made barely compatible with the rest of the Fediverse is only one reason for this.
(streams) and Forte also have another admin-side filter which, when turned on, locks everything out that doesn't support enclosed threaded conversations. That's because server applications like Mastodon mess with the way that (streams), Forte and their ancestors handle conversations. Granted, when this is activated only to get rid of Mastodon, it causes quite a bit of collateral damage.
Generally, (streams) and Forte are very similar. The main difference is that Forte is entirely based on ActivityPub whereas (streams) is based on the current version of Nomad with ActivityPub still being optional. The reason why (streams) is kept around is for there to still be one of these applications with the same protocol-level "drawbridge" as Hubzilla. And in fact, the most important (streams) group used to have ActivityPub off with the intention to keep Mastodon out.
I guess there are still Mastodon users who absolutely defend and support Mastodon's way being forced upon the non-Mastodon Fediverse, and who are irritated or upset about non-Mastodon users being very defensive of their own non-Mastodon ways and refusing to adopt Mastodon's (allegedly much superior) culture instead of embracing it.
And I guess there are Mastodon users who feel absolutely entitled to get to every last Hubzilla and (streams) and Forte user unhindered and force them to use Hubzilla/(streams)/Forte exactly like Mastodon in every way possible.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #CharacterLimit #CharacterLimits #CharacterLimitMeta #CWCharacterLimitMeta #500Characters #CW #CWs #CWMeta #ContentWarning #ContentWarnings #ContentWarningMeta #Hashtag #Hashtags #HashtagMeta #CWHashtagMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #MastodonFediverse #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Lemmy #MastodonCulture #FediverseCulture #MastodonCentricity #MastodonNormativity -
@Truth & Answers I've just come across a toot from a Mastodon user who demanded that everyone who posts, quote, "on Mastodon," end quote, limit their posts to 500 characters.
This was far from being the first time I've read this very demand or similar demands. It just was the most recent time.
Where this comes from? Well, it has two sides.The Mastodon side
One side are Mastodon users. Not all of them, but most of them. Literally all of them were on-boarded onto Mastodon with the notion that Mastodon is its own enclosed network with nothing else in it. Those who pull them on board either think it's easier for them to understand if they aren't told about the non-Mastodon Fediverse, or they don't know about the non-Mastodon Fediverse themselves.
Some of these newbies think Mastodon is the network because they've never heard of the Fediverse. Others think the Fediverse is Mastodon and nothing else.
My estimation, and not only mine, is that more than 50% of all Mastodon users think the Fediverse consists of nothing else than Mastodon. A great deal of the rest thinks the Fediverse doesn't extend beyond Mastodon, Pixelfed and PeerTube. Not much anyway.
It doesn't help that Mastodon, unlike other Fediverse server applications such as Misskey, the Forkeys, Friendica, (streams) or Forte, does not tell its users which server app a message came from. It doesn't help either that Mastodon "sanitises" away quite a few things that'd make non-Mastodon messages a dead giveaway. So the huge majority of Mastodon users believe that if they see it on Mastodon, it came from Mastodon.
So these people are dropped into a network which they think is nothing but a purist, minimalist microblogging service with no more than 500 characters, and whose only differences from Twitter are the name, that it isn't just one website, that it isn't owned by Elon Musk, and that it isn't overrun by fascists.
They get used to it. They get used to only having a maximum of 500 characters. They get used to the CW field being the CW field. They get used to Mastodon's entire culture which they see as the be-all, end-all of online culture.
And then they come across a message with a whole lot over 500 characters for the first time. Something which, to their best knowledge, shouldn't exist in the Mastodon Fediverse. Something which mustn't exist in the Mastodon Fediverse.
Some don't have any idea how it could be possible to "toot" more than 500 characters "on Mastodon", and they ask how one can do that. Others believe that all these "long toots" come from hacked Mastodon servers. Either way, they often demand that these Mastodon users adhere to Mastodon's culture and Mastodon's unwritten rules and act like all good Mastodon users shall act. Including not "tooting" more than 500 characters "on Mastodon".
Both are being told that these "toots" aren't "toots" because they don't come from Mastodon. That the Fediverse is, in fact, not only Mastodon. That there's other server software in the Fediverse that has always been able to post way more than 500 characters.
That changes nothing for them. They still demand everyone in the Fediverse adhere to Mastodon's culture and Mastodon's unwritten rules and only to these, and that everyone in the Fediverse use whatever they use exactly like vanilla, unmodified Mastodon.
And they feel absolutely justified. According to their gospel, Gargron invented the Fediverse when he created Mastodon. And everything in the Fediverse that isn't Mastodon (once they discover that there is such stuff) has either been designed as an add-on glued onto Mastodon (Pixelfed, PeerTube), or it's an evil, savage intruder (everything that's capable of largely doing the same thing as Mastodon without being Mastodon).
The Fediverse is to Mastodon users what the ancient world was to the Romans. Mastodon is the Roman Empire. Literally the only place that has got something like culture. A few places have voluntarily joined the Roman Mastodon Empire. All the rest consists of primitive, savage, culture-less barbarians whose lands need to be conquered by force to bring them culture.The non-Mastodon side
The other side are the non-Mastodon users. This sounds harsh, but while Mastodon users act by faith and belief, non-Mastodon users act by knowledge. It's them who know what the Fediverse really is. That there has never been a point in history at which the Fediverse has only been Mastodon. And that culture does exist outside of Mastodon. Only that these cultures are different from Mastodon's culture, largely because they're geared towards the technical capabilities of the underlying software.
To non-Mastodon users, the Fediverse feels like the New World when the European conquerors and settlers arrived. They demanded the natives adopt European culture and convert to Catholic Christianty or face death. The natives actually already had cultures. Cultures that suited them and their surroundings much more than the culture lived in European cities. But the Europeans didn't acknowledge the natives' cultures as such, nor did they care.
From non-Mastodon users' point of view, Mastodon users act to them like the Europeans acted to the natives in their colonies-to-be.
A very good example, also because it's such an extreme example, has to be Friendica. In case you don't know, Friendica (https://friendi.ca; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendica; https://joinfediverse.wiki/Friendica) is a free, open-source, decentralised, federated Facebook alternative that first came out as early as May, 2010. Friendica developed a wholly different culture from Mastodon's because it's vastly different from Mastodon.
Mastodon's culture was mostly coined in mid-2022 by those who escaped from Elon Musk's announcement to buy out Twitter in February/March, 2022.
Friendica's culture was coined by its early users in 2010 already.
Mastodon users are mostly used to living in a Mastodon-only network with no connection to anything that isn't Mastodon. They believe that Mastodon and the Fediverse were designed as such, and that Friendica is an illegitimate intruder.
Friendica users are used to being able to connect to everything that moves, including Mastodon, including the whole Fediverse, no matter which iteration of the Fediverse, including diaspora*, and the some. That's because Friendica was designed from the ground up to be able to connect to a whole lot of stuff. It's part of its concept.
Mastodon users believe that Mastodon was there before anything.
Friendica users know that Friendica was there long before Mastodon, even before diaspora*, and that Friendica still wasn't the first.
Mastodon users are used to only having 500 characters. They still consider that a lot in comparison with Twitter's 280 characters.
Friendica users are used to not having any character limit whatsoever. Friendica's actual technical character limit is imposed by the maximum size of the message text database field, and that's over 16.7 million characters.
Mastodon users are used to chopping long posts into threads. It's what they expect. Actual long posts irritate them.
Friendica users are used to posting long post in one piece. It's what they expect. One and the same post being chopped up into itty-bitty bits irritate them.
Mastodon users are used to putting CWs in a dedicated CW field.
Friendica users are used to the self-same text field actually being a summary field (Friendica calls it "abstract"). While Mastodon got that field in 2017 as a pull request from a user, Friendica had it from the get-go, i.e. since 2010. And Friendica actually adopted it from Evan Prodromou's decentralised Twitter alternative StatusNet from 2008 with which Friendica was able to federate with from the get-go as well.
Mastodon users "know" that Gargron invented the CW field.
Friendica users actually do know for a fact that they've had the same field as a summary field since long before Mastodon was even made. There are still enough Friendica veterans around from before 2016.
This also means that Mastodon users are used to poster-side CWs which all readers get just the same.
Friendica users are used to CWs being automatically generated on the reader's side, individually for each reader, by an optional text filter.
In fact, Mastodon can do the same. But nobody knows, it came way too late to become part of Mastodon's culture (Mastodon 4.0 in October, 2022), it's too tedious to use, it probably isn't supported by that many phone apps, and next to nobody uses Mastodon's Web interface. In the meantime, Friendica has had this feature for some twelve years longer, and it's only an on-off switch and one editable keyword list.
Mastodon users are used to only having up to four images and to images always only being file attachments dangling below a post.
Friendica users are used to being able to embed a virtually unlimited number of images to a post. And to actually embed them, as in, with text above the image and text below the image and another image below that text and more text below that image. Theoretically, they could insert tiny images into lines of text. By the way, Mastodon refuses to display embedded images. It also rejects any file attachments beyond the first four. And up to version 4.0 from October, 2022, it didn't support any kind of text formatting and "sanitised" all message texts down to plain text.
This also means that Mastodon users are used to only having plain text or mucking around with Unicode characters for bold type and italics.
Friendica users are used to being able to not only see, but also post all sorts of text formatting that HTML is capable of.
Mastodon users are often deadly afraid of quote-posts because they only know quote-posts as a means of harassment and dogpiling on Twitter.
Friendica users, their entire culture being entirely unfazed by whatever has ever happened on Twitter, are absolutely used to always having had quote-posts at hand and to using quote-posts as a means of forwarding content. They had what Mastodon calls "quotes" years before they had what Mastodon calls "boosts" (and what many Mastodon users refer to as "retoots").
Mastodon users are used to conversations being loosely tied together from toots and to having to visibly mention all those whom they want to receive a reply.
Friendica users are used to having enclosed threaded conversations with only one post and otherwise only comments. They're also used to everyone in the conversation, i.e. everyone who has received the original post, automatically receiving every single last comment. They're used to always seeing the entire thread immediately as opposed to single-message piecemeal.
Mastodon users are used to shouting into the void with hashtags attached if they want to talk about a certain topic. It's the only way for them to do so.
Friendica users are used to having groups. Oh, and full-text search.The conflict
It should be obvious that these two types have a very high chance of not getting along, especially if the Mastodon user is fairly new and not used to there being stuff in the Fediverse that's nothing like Mastodon.
Mastodon users keep demanding that everyone else in the Fediverse live by Mastodon's culture and Mastodon's rules and only by these.
Mastodon users who have joined in 2026 keep ordering Friendica veterans who have joined in the early 2010s (before there was any Mastodon) to act like they're on Mastodon.
They demand these Friendica veterans fully adopt Mastodon's culture (which isn't even geared towards Friendica's set of features).
They indirectly demand these Friendica veterans give up their own culture (because they cannot comprehend that there can be any other culture in the Fediverse than Mastodon's, as in, that what Friendica has is a culture, even though it's different from Mastodon's).
They directly demand these Friendica veterans give up some 40% of the features they've been using for a decade and a half and indirectly demand they give up another 40% of these features.
They demand these Friendica veterans stop posting more than 500 characters at once.
They demand these Friendica veterans put CWs into their abstract field. (Again, they think that Gargron has invented this field from scratch as a CW field,)
They demand these Friendica veterans use their abstract field only for CWs.
They demand these Friendica veterans stop "spamming" hashtags that clearly aren't there for content discovery. (They cannot comprehend that these hashtags are there to trigger automatic reader-side CWs because the entire concept is completely alien to them.)
And so forth.
These Friendica veterans have been in the Fediverse for about a decade and a half. And suddently, these Mastodon newbies appear and tell them how to use Friendica.
Of course, these Mastodon newbies don't know a thing about Friendica. They think the Friendica veterans are Mastodon users, and they're telling them how to use Mastodon.
So the Friendica users tell them, no, they aren't on Mastodon. They're on Friendica which has got absolutely nothing to do with Mastodon.
Then the Mastodon newbies will believe that someone has created this weird Friendica thing after Mastodon was made (it can't possibly be any other way, right?9 and illegally hacked this Friendica thing into the Mastodon Fediverse. And whoever made Friendica omitted to make Friendica just like Mastodon.
Okay, now the Friendica users tell them that Friendica was launched in 2010, how long before Mastodon that was, and that they themselves have been around for much longer than Mastodon, too.
Now, either the Mastodon newbies will fail to comprehend that there can be anything in the Fediverse made before Mastodon if Gargron has invented the very technology. Or they think that the Fediverse was still created with Mastodon, and that Friendica still illegally intruded into the Mastodon Fediverse.
Either way, the Friendica veterans will have to adapt and act entirely by Mastodon's standards. This is the Mastodon Fediverse, Mastodon is the biggest software (if only by monthly active users, by the way), Mastodon has defined "the Fediverse culture", and thus it's the Mastodon users and only the Mastodon users who get to say how people have to act and behave in the Fediverse.
And then the Mastodon users wonder how there's so much Mastodon hatred on Friendica (and there actually is). How Friendica users complain about Mastodon users trying to force them to use Friendica like Mastodon. How Friendica users complain about Mastodon users chopping long posts into small bits. As if they had a choice. How Friendica users complain about CWs in whatever that abstract field is supposed to be. And so forth.
How dare the Friendica users complain? The Mastodon users are the good guys! It's them and only them who have a culture, who have rules, who know how to use the Fediverse!
By the way: It gets even worse between Mastodon and Lemmy.
Mastodon's culture is an idealised version of pre-Musk Twitter's culture with bits of Tumblr's SFW culture mixed in. That's because just about everyone on Mastodon originally came from Twitter, and most of them escaped from Elon Musk. They want Mastodon (and the Fediverse) be a better Twitter. It helps that Mastodon is still trying hard to be a Twitter clone.
Lemmy's culture, on the other hand, is a carbon copy of Reddit's culture. Lemmy is a Reddit clone that shares next to no features at all with Mastodon except for ActivityPub support. Next to all Lemmy users are former Redditors who left Reddit when Reddit started charging $20,000,000 for its client API, effectively killing off all third-party Reddit apps. They saw no reason in changing their culture because it wasn't the culture that drove them away. Hardly any of them were on Twitter, and almost none of them have ever been on Mastodon. Many think the Fediverse is Lemmy. Of the rest, many think the Fediverse is Lemmy with a side of PieFed.
Mastodon lives on hashtags even more than Twitter. Lemmy has zero support for hashtags because Reddit doesn't have any either, and neither does Hacker News.
Mastodon requires mentions to get replies to their recipients. One visible mention per recipient. Lemmy doesn't need mentions for this at all. Mentions on Lemmy only serve to, well, mention someone. Just like on Reddit.
And so forth.
It's actually easy to spot threads on Lemmy that were started by Mastodon users: The title is in the post text, or there's no title at all because the Mastodon users did as they always do: mention in the first line, then a new line because that looks prettier. Of course, there's a mention in the post text. And there's a bunch of hashtags strewn across the post text even though they don't even work. If you're very lucky, the hashtags are at the bottom, but most Mastodon users don't waste any of their 500 characters on that.
I hope you get a rough idea how much headbutting there is between Mastodon users who think that the Mastodon users rule supreme over the whole Fediverse and Lemmy community owners who do rule over the Lemmy communities which these Mastodon users have just posted into.Countermeasures
Both sides are actually taking countermeasures. The non-Mastodon side is more effective at it, though.
On Mastodon's side, there are very few single users who block every single non-Mastodon server they come across.
Countermeasures on the non-Mastodon side vary. They start with single users who block each Mastodon user who doesn't behave like they want them to behave, e.g. they block everyone who chops a long post into a thread at first trike.
Then there's Hubzilla, reworked from a fork of a fork of Friendica by Friendica's own creator. Hubzilla has always been based on its own protocol, Zot6 (Friendica's creator calls it an older version of Nomad). ActivityPub support is optional, on by default on new servers and off by default on new channels. The current devs won't change anything about that. Not only doesn't Hubzilla's technology allow for moving it to ActivityPub as its base protocol, but ActivityPub being optional is seen as a last-resort "drawbridge" for those to whom Mastodon has become unbearable.
Nowadays, Friendica's creator is working on two other applications in the same family. (streams) is a fork of a fork of three forks of a fork (of a fork?) of Hubzilla, and Forte is a fork of (streams). Both have an admin-side user agent filter. It can block entire Fediverse applications without having to hassle around with a URL list. It was mainly created and advertised as a means to permanently lock Threads out, even if Threads should change URLs. But it's also being advertised as being capable of blocking all of Mastodon, all present and future servers. Mastodon being intentially made barely compatible with the rest of the Fediverse is only one reason for this.
(streams) and Forte also have another admin-side filter which, when turned on, locks everything out that doesn't support enclosed threaded conversations. That's because server applications like Mastodon mess with the way that (streams), Forte and their ancestors handle conversations. Granted, when this is activated only to get rid of Mastodon, it causes quite a bit of collateral damage.
Generally, (streams) and Forte are very similar. The main difference is that Forte is entirely based on ActivityPub whereas (streams) is based on the current version of Nomad with ActivityPub still being optional. The reason why (streams) is kept around is for there to still be one of these applications with the same protocol-level "drawbridge" as Hubzilla. And in fact, the most important (streams) group used to have ActivityPub off with the intention to keep Mastodon out.
I guess there are still Mastodon users who absolutely defend and support Mastodon's way being forced upon the non-Mastodon Fediverse, and who are irritated or upset about non-Mastodon users being very defensive of their own non-Mastodon ways and refusing to adopt Mastodon's (allegedly much superior) culture instead of embracing it.
And I guess there are Mastodon users who feel absolutely entitled to get to every last Hubzilla and (streams) and Forte user unhindered and force them to use Hubzilla/(streams)/Forte exactly like Mastodon in every way possible.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #CharacterLimit #CharacterLimits #CharacterLimitMeta #CWCharacterLimitMeta #500Characters #CW #CWs #CWMeta #ContentWarning #ContentWarnings #ContentWarningMeta #Hashtag #Hashtags #HashtagMeta #CWHashtagMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #MastodonFediverse #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Lemmy #MastodonCulture #FediverseCulture #MastodonCentricity #MastodonNormativity -
@Truth & Answers I've just come across a toot from a Mastodon user who demanded that everyone who posts, quote, "on Mastodon," end quote, limit their posts to 500 characters.
This was far from being the first time I've read this very demand or similar demands. It just was the most recent time.
Where this comes from? Well, it has two sides.The Mastodon side
One side are Mastodon users. Not all of them, but most of them. Literally all of them were on-boarded onto Mastodon with the notion that Mastodon is its own enclosed network with nothing else in it. Those who pull them on board either think it's easier for them to understand if they aren't told about the non-Mastodon Fediverse, or they don't know about the non-Mastodon Fediverse themselves.
Some of these newbies think Mastodon is the network because they've never heard of the Fediverse. Others think the Fediverse is Mastodon and nothing else.
My estimation, and not only mine, is that more than 50% of all Mastodon users think the Fediverse consists of nothing else than Mastodon. A great deal of the rest thinks the Fediverse doesn't extend beyond Mastodon, Pixelfed and PeerTube. Not much anyway.
It doesn't help that Mastodon, unlike other Fediverse server applications such as Misskey, the Forkeys, Friendica, (streams) or Forte, does not tell its users which server app a message came from. It doesn't help either that Mastodon "sanitises" away quite a few things that'd make non-Mastodon messages a dead giveaway. So the huge majority of Mastodon users believe that if they see it on Mastodon, it came from Mastodon.
So these people are dropped into a network which they think is nothing but a purist, minimalist microblogging service with no more than 500 characters, and whose only differences from Twitter are the name, that it isn't just one website, that it isn't owned by Elon Musk, and that it isn't overrun by fascists.
They get used to it. They get used to only having a maximum of 500 characters. They get used to the CW field being the CW field. They get used to Mastodon's entire culture which they see as the be-all, end-all of online culture.
And then they come across a message with a whole lot over 500 characters for the first time. Something which, to their best knowledge, shouldn't exist in the Mastodon Fediverse. Something which mustn't exist in the Mastodon Fediverse.
Some don't have any idea how it could be possible to "toot" more than 500 characters "on Mastodon", and they ask how one can do that. Others believe that all these "long toots" come from hacked Mastodon servers. Either way, they often demand that these Mastodon users adhere to Mastodon's culture and Mastodon's unwritten rules and act like all good Mastodon users shall act. Including not "tooting" more than 500 characters "on Mastodon".
Both are being told that these "toots" aren't "toots" because they don't come from Mastodon. That the Fediverse is, in fact, not only Mastodon. That there's other server software in the Fediverse that has always been able to post way more than 500 characters.
That changes nothing for them. They still demand everyone in the Fediverse adhere to Mastodon's culture and Mastodon's unwritten rules and only to these, and that everyone in the Fediverse use whatever they use exactly like vanilla, unmodified Mastodon.
And they feel absolutely justified. According to their gospel, Gargron invented the Fediverse when he created Mastodon. And everything in the Fediverse that isn't Mastodon (once they discover that there is such stuff) has either been designed as an add-on glued onto Mastodon (Pixelfed, PeerTube), or it's an evil, savage intruder (everything that's capable of largely doing the same thing as Mastodon without being Mastodon).
The Fediverse is to Mastodon users what the ancient world was to the Romans. Mastodon is the Roman Empire. Literally the only place that has got something like culture. A few places have voluntarily joined the Roman Mastodon Empire. All the rest consists of primitive, savage, culture-less barbarians whose lands need to be conquered by force to bring them culture.The non-Mastodon side
The other side are the non-Mastodon users. This sounds harsh, but while Mastodon users act by faith and belief, non-Mastodon users act by knowledge. It's them who know what the Fediverse really is. That there has never been a point in history at which the Fediverse has only been Mastodon. And that culture does exist outside of Mastodon. Only that these cultures are different from Mastodon's culture, largely because they're geared towards the technical capabilities of the underlying software.
To non-Mastodon users, the Fediverse feels like the New World when the European conquerors and settlers arrived. They demanded the natives adopt European culture and convert to Catholic Christianty or face death. The natives actually already had cultures. Cultures that suited them and their surroundings much more than the culture lived in European cities. But the Europeans didn't acknowledge the natives' cultures as such, nor did they care.
From non-Mastodon users' point of view, Mastodon users act to them like the Europeans acted to the natives in their colonies-to-be.
A very good example, also because it's such an extreme example, has to be Friendica. In case you don't know, Friendica (https://friendi.ca; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendica; https://joinfediverse.wiki/Friendica) is a free, open-source, decentralised, federated Facebook alternative that first came out as early as May, 2010. Friendica developed a wholly different culture from Mastodon's because it's vastly different from Mastodon.
Mastodon's culture was mostly coined in mid-2022 by those who escaped from Elon Musk's announcement to buy out Twitter in February/March, 2022.
Friendica's culture was coined by its early users in 2010 already.
Mastodon users are mostly used to living in a Mastodon-only network with no connection to anything that isn't Mastodon. They believe that Mastodon and the Fediverse were designed as such, and that Friendica is an illegitimate intruder.
Friendica users are used to being able to connect to everything that moves, including Mastodon, including the whole Fediverse, no matter which iteration of the Fediverse, including diaspora*, and the some. That's because Friendica was designed from the ground up to be able to connect to a whole lot of stuff. It's part of its concept.
Mastodon users believe that Mastodon was there before anything.
Friendica users know that Friendica was there long before Mastodon, even before diaspora*, and that Friendica still wasn't the first.
Mastodon users are used to only having 500 characters. They still consider that a lot in comparison with Twitter's 280 characters.
Friendica users are used to not having any character limit whatsoever. Friendica's actual technical character limit is imposed by the maximum size of the message text database field, and that's over 16.7 million characters.
Mastodon users are used to chopping long posts into threads. It's what they expect. Actual long posts irritate them.
Friendica users are used to posting long post in one piece. It's what they expect. One and the same post being chopped up into itty-bitty bits irritate them.
Mastodon users are used to putting CWs in a dedicated CW field.
Friendica users are used to the self-same text field actually being a summary field (Friendica calls it "abstract"). While Mastodon got that field in 2017 as a pull request from a user, Friendica had it from the get-go, i.e. since 2010. And Friendica actually adopted it from Evan Prodromou's decentralised Twitter alternative StatusNet from 2008 with which Friendica was able to federate with from the get-go as well.
Mastodon users "know" that Gargron invented the CW field.
Friendica users actually do know for a fact that they've had the same field as a summary field since long before Mastodon was even made. There are still enough Friendica veterans around from before 2016.
This also means that Mastodon users are used to poster-side CWs which all readers get just the same.
Friendica users are used to CWs being automatically generated on the reader's side, individually for each reader, by an optional text filter.
In fact, Mastodon can do the same. But nobody knows, it came way too late to become part of Mastodon's culture (Mastodon 4.0 in October, 2022), it's too tedious to use, it probably isn't supported by that many phone apps, and next to nobody uses Mastodon's Web interface. In the meantime, Friendica has had this feature for some twelve years longer, and it's only an on-off switch and one editable keyword list.
Mastodon users are used to only having up to four images and to images always only being file attachments dangling below a post.
Friendica users are used to being able to embed a virtually unlimited number of images to a post. And to actually embed them, as in, with text above the image and text below the image and another image below that text and more text below that image. Theoretically, they could insert tiny images into lines of text. By the way, Mastodon refuses to display embedded images. It also rejects any file attachments beyond the first four. And up to version 4.0 from October, 2022, it didn't support any kind of text formatting and "sanitised" all message texts down to plain text.
This also means that Mastodon users are used to only having plain text or mucking around with Unicode characters for bold type and italics.
Friendica users are used to being able to not only see, but also post all sorts of text formatting that HTML is capable of.
Mastodon users are often deadly afraid of quote-posts because they only know quote-posts as a means of harassment and dogpiling on Twitter.
Friendica users, their entire culture being entirely unfazed by whatever has ever happened on Twitter, are absolutely used to always having had quote-posts at hand and to using quote-posts as a means of forwarding content. They had what Mastodon calls "quotes" years before they had what Mastodon calls "boosts" (and what many Mastodon users refer to as "retoots").
Mastodon users are used to conversations being loosely tied together from toots and to having to visibly mention all those whom they want to receive a reply.
Friendica users are used to having enclosed threaded conversations with only one post and otherwise only comments. They're also used to everyone in the conversation, i.e. everyone who has received the original post, automatically receiving every single last comment. They're used to always seeing the entire thread immediately as opposed to single-message piecemeal.
Mastodon users are used to shouting into the void with hashtags attached if they want to talk about a certain topic. It's the only way for them to do so.
Friendica users are used to having groups. Oh, and full-text search.The conflict
It should be obvious that these two types have a very high chance of not getting along, especially if the Mastodon user is fairly new and not used to there being stuff in the Fediverse that's nothing like Mastodon.
Mastodon users keep demanding that everyone else in the Fediverse live by Mastodon's culture and Mastodon's rules and only by these.
Mastodon users who have joined in 2026 keep ordering Friendica veterans who have joined in the early 2010s (before there was any Mastodon) to act like they're on Mastodon.
They demand these Friendica veterans fully adopt Mastodon's culture (which isn't even geared towards Friendica's set of features).
They indirectly demand these Friendica veterans give up their own culture (because they cannot comprehend that there can be any other culture in the Fediverse than Mastodon's, as in, that what Friendica has is a culture, even though it's different from Mastodon's).
They directly demand these Friendica veterans give up some 40% of the features they've been using for a decade and a half and indirectly demand they give up another 40% of these features.
They demand these Friendica veterans stop posting more than 500 characters at once.
They demand these Friendica veterans put CWs into their abstract field. (Again, they think that Gargron has invented this field from scratch as a CW field,)
They demand these Friendica veterans use their abstract field only for CWs.
They demand these Friendica veterans stop "spamming" hashtags that clearly aren't there for content discovery. (They cannot comprehend that these hashtags are there to trigger automatic reader-side CWs because the entire concept is completely alien to them.)
And so forth.
These Friendica veterans have been in the Fediverse for about a decade and a half. And suddently, these Mastodon newbies appear and tell them how to use Friendica.
Of course, these Mastodon newbies don't know a thing about Friendica. They think the Friendica veterans are Mastodon users, and they're telling them how to use Mastodon.
So the Friendica users tell them, no, they aren't on Mastodon. They're on Friendica which has got absolutely nothing to do with Mastodon.
Then the Mastodon newbies will believe that someone has created this weird Friendica thing after Mastodon was made (it can't possibly be any other way, right?9 and illegally hacked this Friendica thing into the Mastodon Fediverse. And whoever made Friendica omitted to make Friendica just like Mastodon.
Okay, now the Friendica users tell them that Friendica was launched in 2010, how long before Mastodon that was, and that they themselves have been around for much longer than Mastodon, too.
Now, either the Mastodon newbies will fail to comprehend that there can be anything in the Fediverse made before Mastodon if Gargron has invented the very technology. Or they think that the Fediverse was still created with Mastodon, and that Friendica still illegally intruded into the Mastodon Fediverse.
Either way, the Friendica veterans will have to adapt and act entirely by Mastodon's standards. This is the Mastodon Fediverse, Mastodon is the biggest software (if only by monthly active users, by the way), Mastodon has defined "the Fediverse culture", and thus it's the Mastodon users and only the Mastodon users who get to say how people have to act and behave in the Fediverse.
And then the Mastodon users wonder how there's so much Mastodon hatred on Friendica (and there actually is). How Friendica users complain about Mastodon users trying to force them to use Friendica like Mastodon. How Friendica users complain about Mastodon users chopping long posts into small bits. As if they had a choice. How Friendica users complain about CWs in whatever that abstract field is supposed to be. And so forth.
How dare the Friendica users complain? The Mastodon users are the good guys! It's them and only them who have a culture, who have rules, who know how to use the Fediverse!
By the way: It gets even worse between Mastodon and Lemmy.
Mastodon's culture is an idealised version of pre-Musk Twitter's culture with bits of Tumblr's SFW culture mixed in. That's because just about everyone on Mastodon originally came from Twitter, and most of them escaped from Elon Musk. They want Mastodon (and the Fediverse) be a better Twitter. It helps that Mastodon is still trying hard to be a Twitter clone.
Lemmy's culture, on the other hand, is a carbon copy of Reddit's culture. Lemmy is a Reddit clone that shares next to no features at all with Mastodon except for ActivityPub support. Next to all Lemmy users are former Redditors who left Reddit when Reddit started charging $20,000,000 for its client API, effectively killing off all third-party Reddit apps. They saw no reason in changing their culture because it wasn't the culture that drove them away. Hardly any of them were on Twitter, and almost none of them have ever been on Mastodon. Many think the Fediverse is Lemmy. Of the rest, many think the Fediverse is Lemmy with a side of PieFed.
Mastodon lives on hashtags even more than Twitter. Lemmy has zero support for hashtags because Reddit doesn't have any either, and neither does Hacker News.
Mastodon requires mentions to get replies to their recipients. One visible mention per recipient. Lemmy doesn't need mentions for this at all. Mentions on Lemmy only serve to, well, mention someone. Just like on Reddit.
And so forth.
It's actually easy to spot threads on Lemmy that were started by Mastodon users: The title is in the post text, or there's no title at all because the Mastodon users did as they always do: mention in the first line, then a new line because that looks prettier. Of course, there's a mention in the post text. And there's a bunch of hashtags strewn across the post text even though they don't even work. If you're very lucky, the hashtags are at the bottom, but most Mastodon users don't waste any of their 500 characters on that.
I hope you get a rough idea how much headbutting there is between Mastodon users who think that the Mastodon users rule supreme over the whole Fediverse and Lemmy community owners who do rule over the Lemmy communities which these Mastodon users have just posted into.Countermeasures
Both sides are actually taking countermeasures. The non-Mastodon side is more effective at it, though.
On Mastodon's side, there are very few single users who block every single non-Mastodon server they come across.
Countermeasures on the non-Mastodon side vary. They start with single users who block each Mastodon user who doesn't behave like they want them to behave, e.g. they block everyone who chops a long post into a thread at first trike.
Then there's Hubzilla, reworked from a fork of a fork of Friendica by Friendica's own creator. Hubzilla has always been based on its own protocol, Zot6 (Friendica's creator calls it an older version of Nomad). ActivityPub support is optional, on by default on new servers and off by default on new channels. The current devs won't change anything about that. Not only doesn't Hubzilla's technology allow for moving it to ActivityPub as its base protocol, but ActivityPub being optional is seen as a last-resort "drawbridge" for those to whom Mastodon has become unbearable.
Nowadays, Friendica's creator is working on two other applications in the same family. (streams) is a fork of a fork of three forks of a fork (of a fork?) of Hubzilla, and Forte is a fork of (streams). Both have an admin-side user agent filter. It can block entire Fediverse applications without having to hassle around with a URL list. It was mainly created and advertised as a means to permanently lock Threads out, even if Threads should change URLs. But it's also being advertised as being capable of blocking all of Mastodon, all present and future servers. Mastodon being intentially made barely compatible with the rest of the Fediverse is only one reason for this.
(streams) and Forte also have another admin-side filter which, when turned on, locks everything out that doesn't support enclosed threaded conversations. That's because server applications like Mastodon mess with the way that (streams), Forte and their ancestors handle conversations. Granted, when this is activated only to get rid of Mastodon, it causes quite a bit of collateral damage.
Generally, (streams) and Forte are very similar. The main difference is that Forte is entirely based on ActivityPub whereas (streams) is based on the current version of Nomad with ActivityPub still being optional. The reason why (streams) is kept around is for there to still be one of these applications with the same protocol-level "drawbridge" as Hubzilla. And in fact, the most important (streams) group used to have ActivityPub off with the intention to keep Mastodon out.
I guess there are still Mastodon users who absolutely defend and support Mastodon's way being forced upon the non-Mastodon Fediverse, and who are irritated or upset about non-Mastodon users being very defensive of their own non-Mastodon ways and refusing to adopt Mastodon's (allegedly much superior) culture instead of embracing it.
And I guess there are Mastodon users who feel absolutely entitled to get to every last Hubzilla and (streams) and Forte user unhindered and force them to use Hubzilla/(streams)/Forte exactly like Mastodon in every way possible.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #CharacterLimit #CharacterLimits #CharacterLimitMeta #CWCharacterLimitMeta #500Characters #CW #CWs #CWMeta #ContentWarning #ContentWarnings #ContentWarningMeta #Hashtag #Hashtags #HashtagMeta #CWHashtagMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #MastodonFediverse #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Lemmy #MastodonCulture #FediverseCulture #MastodonCentricity #MastodonNormativity -
CW: What the Mastodon overlords are allowed and justified to do, and what the non-Mastodon savages are not; CW: long (over 6,000 characters), Fediverse meta, Fediverse-beyond-Mastodon meta, character limit meta, CW meta
Yeah, I get it.
Mastodon and its users rule supreme over the Fediverse. After all, the Fediverse was invented by Gargron. It started when Mastodon started, and everything that isn't Mastodon just latched onto Mastodon and its Fediverse.
Mastodon users are the only civilised users in the Fediverse, the only ones with something like a culture. The Fediverse culture is Mastodon's culture as defined in the spring of 2022. All those who don't live by Mastodon's culture are uncivilised, uneducated, savage barbarians. And it isn't just the Mastodon users' right and privilege to educate them and shape them into good Mastodon users, it's their duty.
Even when it turns out that these barbarians aren't even on Mastodon, that they're on something that's very much not Mastodon, they can't possibly have a culture of their own. After all, they don't live by Mastodon's culture, and if it isn't Mastodon's culture, it isn't culture at all. Not even if it predates Mastodon's current culture by over a decade like Friendica's culture does.
Of course, this also means that when non-Mastodon users come and give Mastodon users unsolicited "advice" or recommend them to use Mastodon in a certain way that goes against Mastodon's culture, the Mastodon users are fully justified to silence them by any means available.What this means:
When a Mastodon user uses "Fediverse" and "Mastodon" mutually synonymously, it's the right thing to do because that's part of Mastodon's culture. And it makes things easier to understand.
When a non-Mastodon user explains that the Fediverse is not only Mastodon, and that "Fediverse" and "Mastodon" do not mean the same, it's evil and intrusive and deeply disturbing.
When a Mastodon user refers to any message in the Fediverse as a "toot", it's the right thing to do because that's part of Mastodon's culture.
When a Misskey or Forkey user talks about "notes", it's irritating. When a Friendica or Hubzilla or (streams) or Forte user distinguishes between "posts" and "comments", it has even less of a place in the Mastodon Fediverse.
Features that only Mastodon has are actually mandatory for the whole Fediverse. Any Fediverse server software that hasn't got these features implemented in exactly the same way as Mastodon is broken.
Features in non-Mastodon Fediverse server software that Mastodon doesn't have are wrong and evil and not allowed to be used.
Mastodon users are allowed, justified and expected to tell non-Mastodon users to limit their posts to no more than 500 characters. It especially disturbs those who refuse to move away from the official Mastodon phone app.
Non-Mastodon users are not allowed to tell Mastodon users to not cut their long posts into threads.
Mastodon users are allowed, justified and expected to tell non-Mastodon users to put content warnings into their summary/abstract field.
Mastodon users are allowed, justified and expected to tell non-Mastodon users to only use their summary/abstract field for content warnings. After all, that's what Gargron invented that field for.
Non-Mastodon users are not allowed to tell non-Mastodon users that it was Evan Prodromou who invented that field as early as 2008. That he invented it as a summary field. That it was actually a Mastodon user who repurposed that field for CWs in 2017, the year after Mastodon was launched. Gargron only let it pass.
Non-Mastodon users are not allowed to use that field for anything else than CWs.
Non-Mastodon users are not allowed to add hashtags instead of CWs so that reader-side CWs can automatically be generated by filters. Even though Mastodon itself has literally introduced this very feature with version 4.0 in October, 2022.
Mastodon users are allowed, justified and expected to tell non-Mastodon users to not only write alt-texts for all the images they post, but to write them nicely long and detailed. After all, they've got 1,500 characters for alt-texts.
Misskey and Forkey users are not allowed to tell Mastodon users to limit their alt-texts to no more than 512 characters because that's the maximum that Misskey and the Forkeys accept, and on top of that, due to a bug, they delete all alt-texts longer than that. From a Misskey/Forkey point of view, writing long alt-texts is like not writing any alt-texts at all. But the Misskey/Forkey point of view is invalid in Mastodon's culture.
Mastodon users are allowed, justified and expected to toot to Lemmy any way they want, and that's the Mastodon way. If it doesn't work properly on Lemmy, then Lemmy is broken.
Lemmy users, even Lemmy moderators, and other users of Fediverse software that supports groups are not allowed to tell Mastodon users how to post to Lemmy in a way that Lemmy understands.
Mastodon users are allowed, justified and expected to even tell Lemmy users to limit their "toots" to no more than 500 characters and use hashtags, but not too many of them.
Lemmy users and even Lemmy moderators are not allowed to tell Mastodon users to stop spamming Lemmy with mentions and with hashtags that don't work on Lemmy anyway, also because both highly irritate the Lemmy users. Almost all of them came straight from Reddit after their third-party apps were killed, and almost none of them have ever been on Twitter or Mastodon.
Mastodon users and Mastodon admins are allowed and justified to block any and all non-Mastodon servers because they misbehave by Mastodon's standards.
(streams) and Forte admins are not allowed to block the entirety of Mastodon, all present and future servers, by user agent (which, by the way, they're totally capable of) because it misbehaves by their standards. Mastodon doesn't misbehave, and the Hubzilla/(streams)/Forte standards are all wrong if they differ from Mastodon's standards.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #MastodonFediverse #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #Misskey #Forkey #Forkeys #Iceshrimp #Iceshrimp-JS #Sharkey #CherryPick #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Lemmy #MastodonCulture #FediverseCulture #MastodonCentricity #MastodonNormativity -
CW: What the Mastodon overlords are allowed and justified to do, and what the non-Mastodon savages are not; CW: long (over 6,000 characters), Fediverse meta, Fediverse-beyond-Mastodon meta, character limit meta, CW meta
Yeah, I get it.
Mastodon and its users rule supreme over the Fediverse. After all, the Fediverse was invented by Gargron. It started when Mastodon started, and everything that isn't Mastodon just latched onto Mastodon and its Fediverse.
Mastodon users are the only civilised users in the Fediverse, the only ones with something like a culture. The Fediverse culture is Mastodon's culture as defined in the spring of 2022. All those who don't live by Mastodon's culture are uncivilised, uneducated, savage barbarians. And it isn't just the Mastodon users' right and privilege to educate them and shape them into good Mastodon users, it's their duty.
Even when it turns out that these barbarians aren't even on Mastodon, that they're on something that's very much not Mastodon, they can't possibly have a culture of their own. After all, they don't live by Mastodon's culture, and if it isn't Mastodon's culture, it isn't culture at all. Not even if it predates Mastodon's current culture by over a decade like Friendica's culture does.
Of course, this also means that when non-Mastodon users come and give Mastodon users unsolicited "advice" or recommend them to use Mastodon in a certain way that goes against Mastodon's culture, the Mastodon users are fully justified to silence them by any means available.What this means:
When a Mastodon user uses "Fediverse" and "Mastodon" mutually synonymously, it's the right thing to do because that's part of Mastodon's culture. And it makes things easier to understand.
When a non-Mastodon user explains that the Fediverse is not only Mastodon, and that "Fediverse" and "Mastodon" do not mean the same, it's evil and intrusive and deeply disturbing.
When a Mastodon user refers to any message in the Fediverse as a "toot", it's the right thing to do because that's part of Mastodon's culture.
When a Misskey or Forkey user talks about "notes", it's irritating. When a Friendica or Hubzilla or (streams) or Forte user distinguishes between "posts" and "comments", it has even less of a place in the Mastodon Fediverse.
Features that only Mastodon has are actually mandatory for the whole Fediverse. Any Fediverse server software that hasn't got these features implemented in exactly the same way as Mastodon is broken.
Features in non-Mastodon Fediverse server software that Mastodon doesn't have are wrong and evil and not allowed to be used.
Mastodon users are allowed, justified and expected to tell non-Mastodon users to limit their posts to no more than 500 characters. It especially disturbs those who refuse to move away from the official Mastodon phone app.
Non-Mastodon users are not allowed to tell Mastodon users to not cut their long posts into threads.
Mastodon users are allowed, justified and expected to tell non-Mastodon users to put content warnings into their summary/abstract field.
Mastodon users are allowed, justified and expected to tell non-Mastodon users to only use their summary/abstract field for content warnings. After all, that's what Gargron invented that field for.
Non-Mastodon users are not allowed to tell non-Mastodon users that it was Evan Prodromou who invented that field as early as 2008. That he invented it as a summary field. That it was actually a Mastodon user who repurposed that field for CWs in 2017, the year after Mastodon was launched. Gargron only let it pass.
Non-Mastodon users are not allowed to use that field for anything else than CWs.
Non-Mastodon users are not allowed to add hashtags instead of CWs so that reader-side CWs can automatically be generated by filters. Even though Mastodon itself has literally introduced this very feature with version 4.0 in October, 2022.
Mastodon users are allowed, justified and expected to tell non-Mastodon users to not only write alt-texts for all the images they post, but to write them nicely long and detailed. After all, they've got 1,500 characters for alt-texts.
Misskey and Forkey users are not allowed to tell Mastodon users to limit their alt-texts to no more than 512 characters because that's the maximum that Misskey and the Forkeys accept, and on top of that, due to a bug, they delete all alt-texts longer than that. From a Misskey/Forkey point of view, writing long alt-texts is like not writing any alt-texts at all. But the Misskey/Forkey point of view is invalid in Mastodon's culture.
Mastodon users are allowed, justified and expected to toot to Lemmy any way they want, and that's the Mastodon way. If it doesn't work properly on Lemmy, then Lemmy is broken.
Lemmy users, even Lemmy moderators, and other users of Fediverse software that supports groups are not allowed to tell Mastodon users how to post to Lemmy in a way that Lemmy understands.
Mastodon users are allowed, justified and expected to even tell Lemmy users to limit their "toots" to no more than 500 characters and use hashtags, but not too many of them.
Lemmy users and even Lemmy moderators are not allowed to tell Mastodon users to stop spamming Lemmy with mentions and with hashtags that don't work on Lemmy anyway, also because both highly irritate the Lemmy users. Almost all of them came straight from Reddit after their third-party apps were killed, and almost none of them have ever been on Twitter or Mastodon.
Mastodon users and Mastodon admins are allowed and justified to block any and all non-Mastodon servers because they misbehave by Mastodon's standards.
(streams) and Forte admins are not allowed to block the entirety of Mastodon, all present and future servers, by user agent (which, by the way, they're totally capable of) because it misbehaves by their standards. Mastodon doesn't misbehave, and the Hubzilla/(streams)/Forte standards are all wrong if they differ from Mastodon's standards.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #MastodonFediverse #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #Misskey #Forkey #Forkeys #Iceshrimp #Iceshrimp-JS #Sharkey #CherryPick #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Lemmy #MastodonCulture #FediverseCulture #MastodonCentricity #MastodonNormativity -
CW: What the Mastodon overlords are allowed and justified to do, and what the non-Mastodon savages are not; CW: long (over 6,000 characters), Fediverse meta, Fediverse-beyond-Mastodon meta, character limit meta, CW meta
Yeah, I get it.
Mastodon and its users rule supreme over the Fediverse. After all, the Fediverse was invented by Gargron. It started when Mastodon started, and everything that isn't Mastodon just latched onto Mastodon and its Fediverse.
Mastodon users are the only civilised users in the Fediverse, the only ones with something like a culture. The Fediverse culture is Mastodon's culture as defined in the spring of 2022. All those who don't live by Mastodon's culture are uncivilised, uneducated, savage barbarians. And it isn't just the Mastodon users' right and privilege to educate them and shape them into good Mastodon users, it's their duty.
Even when it turns out that these barbarians aren't even on Mastodon, that they're on something that's very much not Mastodon, they can't possibly have a culture of their own. After all, they don't live by Mastodon's culture, and if it isn't Mastodon's culture, it isn't culture at all. Not even if it predates Mastodon's current culture by over a decade like Friendica's culture does.
Of course, this also means that when non-Mastodon users come and give Mastodon users unsolicited "advice" or recommend them to use Mastodon in a certain way that goes against Mastodon's culture, the Mastodon users are fully justified to silence them by any means available.What this means:
When a Mastodon user uses "Fediverse" and "Mastodon" mutually synonymously, it's the right thing to do because that's part of Mastodon's culture. And it makes things easier to understand.
When a non-Mastodon user explains that the Fediverse is not only Mastodon, and that "Fediverse" and "Mastodon" do not mean the same, it's evil and intrusive and deeply disturbing.
When a Mastodon user refers to any message in the Fediverse as a "toot", it's the right thing to do because that's part of Mastodon's culture.
When a Misskey or Forkey user talks about "notes", it's irritating. When a Friendica or Hubzilla or (streams) or Forte user distinguishes between "posts" and "comments", it has even less of a place in the Mastodon Fediverse.
Features that only Mastodon has are actually mandatory for the whole Fediverse. Any Fediverse server software that hasn't got these features implemented in exactly the same way as Mastodon is broken.
Features in non-Mastodon Fediverse server software that Mastodon doesn't have are wrong and evil and not allowed to be used.
Mastodon users are allowed, justified and expected to tell non-Mastodon users to limit their posts to no more than 500 characters. It especially disturbs those who refuse to move away from the official Mastodon phone app.
Non-Mastodon users are not allowed to tell Mastodon users to not cut their long posts into threads.
Mastodon users are allowed, justified and expected to tell non-Mastodon users to put content warnings into their summary/abstract field.
Mastodon users are allowed, justified and expected to tell non-Mastodon users to only use their summary/abstract field for content warnings. After all, that's what Gargron invented that field for.
Non-Mastodon users are not allowed to tell non-Mastodon users that it was Evan Prodromou who invented that field as early as 2008. That he invented it as a summary field. That it was actually a Mastodon user who repurposed that field for CWs in 2017, the year after Mastodon was launched. Gargron only let it pass.
Non-Mastodon users are not allowed to use that field for anything else than CWs.
Non-Mastodon users are not allowed to add hashtags instead of CWs so that reader-side CWs can automatically be generated by filters. Even though Mastodon itself has literally introduced this very feature with version 4.0 in October, 2022.
Mastodon users are allowed, justified and expected to tell non-Mastodon users to not only write alt-texts for all the images they post, but to write them nicely long and detailed. After all, they've got 1,500 characters for alt-texts.
Misskey and Forkey users are not allowed to tell Mastodon users to limit their alt-texts to no more than 512 characters because that's the maximum that Misskey and the Forkeys accept, and on top of that, due to a bug, they delete all alt-texts longer than that. From a Misskey/Forkey point of view, writing long alt-texts is like not writing any alt-texts at all. But the Misskey/Forkey point of view is invalid in Mastodon's culture.
Mastodon users are allowed, justified and expected to toot to Lemmy any way they want, and that's the Mastodon way. If it doesn't work properly on Lemmy, then Lemmy is broken.
Lemmy users, even Lemmy moderators, and other users of Fediverse software that supports groups are not allowed to tell Mastodon users how to post to Lemmy in a way that Lemmy understands.
Mastodon users are allowed, justified and expected to even tell Lemmy users to limit their "toots" to no more than 500 characters and use hashtags, but not too many of them.
Lemmy users and even Lemmy moderators are not allowed to tell Mastodon users to stop spamming Lemmy with mentions and with hashtags that don't work on Lemmy anyway, also because both highly irritate the Lemmy users. Almost all of them came straight from Reddit after their third-party apps were killed, and almost none of them have ever been on Twitter or Mastodon.
Mastodon users and Mastodon admins are allowed and justified to block any and all non-Mastodon servers because they misbehave by Mastodon's standards.
(streams) and Forte admins are not allowed to block the entirety of Mastodon, all present and future servers, by user agent (which, by the way, they're totally capable of) because it misbehaves by their standards. Mastodon doesn't misbehave, and the Hubzilla/(streams)/Forte standards are all wrong if they differ from Mastodon's standards.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #MastodonFediverse #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #Misskey #Forkey #Forkeys #Iceshrimp #Iceshrimp-JS #Sharkey #CherryPick #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Lemmy #MastodonCulture #FediverseCulture #MastodonCentricity #MastodonNormativity -
CW: What the Mastodon overlords are allowed and justified to do, and what the non-Mastodon savages are not; CW: long (over 6,000 characters), Fediverse meta, Fediverse-beyond-Mastodon meta, character limit meta, CW meta
Yeah, I get it.
Mastodon and its users rule supreme over the Fediverse. After all, the Fediverse was invented by Gargron. It started when Mastodon started, and everything that isn't Mastodon just latched onto Mastodon and its Fediverse.
Mastodon users are the only civilised users in the Fediverse, the only ones with something like a culture. The Fediverse culture is Mastodon's culture as defined in the spring of 2022. All those who don't live by Mastodon's culture are uncivilised, uneducated, savage barbarians. And it isn't just the Mastodon users' right and privilege to educate them and shape them into good Mastodon users, it's their duty.
Even when it turns out that these barbarians aren't even on Mastodon, that they're on something that's very much not Mastodon, they can't possibly have a culture of their own. After all, they don't live by Mastodon's culture, and if it isn't Mastodon's culture, it isn't culture at all. Not even if it predates Mastodon's current culture by over a decade like Friendica's culture does.
Of course, this also means that when non-Mastodon users come and give Mastodon users unsolicited "advice" or recommend them to use Mastodon in a certain way that goes against Mastodon's culture, the Mastodon users are fully justified to silence them by any means available.What this means:
When a Mastodon user uses "Fediverse" and "Mastodon" mutually synonymously, it's the right thing to do because that's part of Mastodon's culture. And it makes things easier to understand.
When a non-Mastodon user explains that the Fediverse is not only Mastodon, and that "Fediverse" and "Mastodon" do not mean the same, it's evil and intrusive and deeply disturbing.
When a Mastodon user refers to any message in the Fediverse as a "toot", it's the right thing to do because that's part of Mastodon's culture.
When a Misskey or Forkey user talks about "notes", it's irritating. When a Friendica or Hubzilla or (streams) or Forte user distinguishes between "posts" and "comments", it has even less of a place in the Mastodon Fediverse.
Features that only Mastodon has are actually mandatory for the whole Fediverse. Any Fediverse server software that hasn't got these features implemented in exactly the same way as Mastodon is broken.
Features in non-Mastodon Fediverse server software that Mastodon doesn't have are wrong and evil and not allowed to be used.
Mastodon users are allowed, justified and expected to tell non-Mastodon users to limit their posts to no more than 500 characters. It especially disturbs those who refuse to move away from the official Mastodon phone app.
Non-Mastodon users are not allowed to tell Mastodon users to not cut their long posts into threads.
Mastodon users are allowed, justified and expected to tell non-Mastodon users to put content warnings into their summary/abstract field.
Mastodon users are allowed, justified and expected to tell non-Mastodon users to only use their summary/abstract field for content warnings. After all, that's what Gargron invented that field for.
Non-Mastodon users are not allowed to tell non-Mastodon users that it was Evan Prodromou who invented that field as early as 2008. That he invented it as a summary field. That it was actually a Mastodon user who repurposed that field for CWs in 2017, the year after Mastodon was launched. Gargron only let it pass.
Non-Mastodon users are not allowed to use that field for anything else than CWs.
Non-Mastodon users are not allowed to add hashtags instead of CWs so that reader-side CWs can automatically be generated by filters. Even though Mastodon itself has literally introduced this very feature with version 4.0 in October, 2022.
Mastodon users are allowed, justified and expected to tell non-Mastodon users to not only write alt-texts for all the images they post, but to write them nicely long and detailed. After all, they've got 1,500 characters for alt-texts.
Misskey and Forkey users are not allowed to tell Mastodon users to limit their alt-texts to no more than 512 characters because that's the maximum that Misskey and the Forkeys accept, and on top of that, due to a bug, they delete all alt-texts longer than that. From a Misskey/Forkey point of view, writing long alt-texts is like not writing any alt-texts at all. But the Misskey/Forkey point of view is invalid in Mastodon's culture.
Mastodon users are allowed, justified and expected to toot to Lemmy any way they want, and that's the Mastodon way. If it doesn't work properly on Lemmy, then Lemmy is broken.
Lemmy users, even Lemmy moderators, and other users of Fediverse software that supports groups are not allowed to tell Mastodon users how to post to Lemmy in a way that Lemmy understands.
Mastodon users are allowed, justified and expected to even tell Lemmy users to limit their "toots" to no more than 500 characters and use hashtags, but not too many of them.
Lemmy users and even Lemmy moderators are not allowed to tell Mastodon users to stop spamming Lemmy with mentions and with hashtags that don't work on Lemmy anyway, also because both highly irritate the Lemmy users. Almost all of them came straight from Reddit after their third-party apps were killed, and almost none of them have ever been on Twitter or Mastodon.
Mastodon users and Mastodon admins are allowed and justified to block any and all non-Mastodon servers because they misbehave by Mastodon's standards.
(streams) and Forte admins are not allowed to block the entirety of Mastodon, all present and future servers, by user agent (which, by the way, they're totally capable of) because it misbehaves by their standards. Mastodon doesn't misbehave, and the Hubzilla/(streams)/Forte standards are all wrong if they differ from Mastodon's standards.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #MastodonFediverse #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #Misskey #Forkey #Forkeys #Iceshrimp #Iceshrimp-JS #Sharkey #CherryPick #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Lemmy #MastodonCulture #FediverseCulture #MastodonCentricity #MastodonNormativity -
CW: What the Mastodon overlords are allowed and justified to do, and what the non-Mastodon savages are not; CW: long (over 6,000 characters), Fediverse meta, Fediverse-beyond-Mastodon meta, character limit meta, CW meta
Yeah, I get it.
Mastodon and its users rule supreme over the Fediverse. After all, the Fediverse was invented by Gargron. It started when Mastodon started, and everything that isn't Mastodon just latched onto Mastodon and its Fediverse.
Mastodon users are the only civilised users in the Fediverse, the only ones with something like a culture. The Fediverse culture is Mastodon's culture as defined in the spring of 2022. All those who don't live by Mastodon's culture are uncivilised, uneducated, savage barbarians. And it isn't just the Mastodon users' right and privilege to educate them and shape them into good Mastodon users, it's their duty.
Even when it turns out that these barbarians aren't even on Mastodon, that they're on something that's very much not Mastodon, they can't possibly have a culture of their own. After all, they don't live by Mastodon's culture, and if it isn't Mastodon's culture, it isn't culture at all. Not even if it predates Mastodon's current culture by over a decade like Friendica's culture does.
Of course, this also means that when non-Mastodon users come and give Mastodon users unsolicited "advice" or recommend them to use Mastodon in a certain way that goes against Mastodon's culture, the Mastodon users are fully justified to silence them by any means available.What this means:
When a Mastodon user uses "Fediverse" and "Mastodon" mutually synonymously, it's the right thing to do because that's part of Mastodon's culture. And it makes things easier to understand.
When a non-Mastodon user explains that the Fediverse is not only Mastodon, and that "Fediverse" and "Mastodon" do not mean the same, it's evil and intrusive and deeply disturbing.
When a Mastodon user refers to any message in the Fediverse as a "toot", it's the right thing to do because that's part of Mastodon's culture.
When a Misskey or Forkey user talks about "notes", it's irritating. When a Friendica or Hubzilla or (streams) or Forte user distinguishes between "posts" and "comments", it has even less of a place in the Mastodon Fediverse.
Features that only Mastodon has are actually mandatory for the whole Fediverse. Any Fediverse server software that hasn't got these features implemented in exactly the same way as Mastodon is broken.
Features in non-Mastodon Fediverse server software that Mastodon doesn't have are wrong and evil and not allowed to be used.
Mastodon users are allowed, justified and expected to tell non-Mastodon users to limit their posts to no more than 500 characters. It especially disturbs those who refuse to move away from the official Mastodon phone app.
Non-Mastodon users are not allowed to tell Mastodon users to not cut their long posts into threads.
Mastodon users are allowed, justified and expected to tell non-Mastodon users to put content warnings into their summary/abstract field.
Mastodon users are allowed, justified and expected to tell non-Mastodon users to only use their summary/abstract field for content warnings. After all, that's what Gargron invented that field for.
Non-Mastodon users are not allowed to tell non-Mastodon users that it was Evan Prodromou who invented that field as early as 2008. That he invented it as a summary field. That it was actually a Mastodon user who repurposed that field for CWs in 2017, the year after Mastodon was launched. Gargron only let it pass.
Non-Mastodon users are not allowed to use that field for anything else than CWs.
Non-Mastodon users are not allowed to add hashtags instead of CWs so that reader-side CWs can automatically be generated by filters. Even though Mastodon itself has literally introduced this very feature with version 4.0 in October, 2022.
Mastodon users are allowed, justified and expected to tell non-Mastodon users to not only write alt-texts for all the images they post, but to write them nicely long and detailed. After all, they've got 1,500 characters for alt-texts.
Misskey and Forkey users are not allowed to tell Mastodon users to limit their alt-texts to no more than 512 characters because that's the maximum that Misskey and the Forkeys accept, and on top of that, due to a bug, they delete all alt-texts longer than that. From a Misskey/Forkey point of view, writing long alt-texts is like not writing any alt-texts at all. But the Misskey/Forkey point of view is invalid in Mastodon's culture.
Mastodon users are allowed, justified and expected to toot to Lemmy any way they want, and that's the Mastodon way. If it doesn't work properly on Lemmy, then Lemmy is broken.
Lemmy users, even Lemmy moderators, and other users of Fediverse software that supports groups are not allowed to tell Mastodon users how to post to Lemmy in a way that Lemmy understands.
Mastodon users are allowed, justified and expected to even tell Lemmy users to limit their "toots" to no more than 500 characters and use hashtags, but not too many of them.
Lemmy users and even Lemmy moderators are not allowed to tell Mastodon users to stop spamming Lemmy with mentions and with hashtags that don't work on Lemmy anyway, also because both highly irritate the Lemmy users. Almost all of them came straight from Reddit after their third-party apps were killed, and almost none of them have ever been on Twitter or Mastodon.
Mastodon users and Mastodon admins are allowed and justified to block any and all non-Mastodon servers because they misbehave by Mastodon's standards.
(streams) and Forte admins are not allowed to block the entirety of Mastodon, all present and future servers, by user agent (which, by the way, they're totally capable of) because it misbehaves by their standards. Mastodon doesn't misbehave, and the Hubzilla/(streams)/Forte standards are all wrong if they differ from Mastodon's standards.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #MastodonFediverse #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #Misskey #Forkey #Forkeys #Iceshrimp #Iceshrimp-JS #Sharkey #CherryPick #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Lemmy #MastodonCulture #FediverseCulture #MastodonCentricity #MastodonNormativity -
@Kristian
Zum einen: Warum hat Mastodon als deutlich jüngeres Projekt deutlich mehr Nutzer für sich gewinnen können als die Projekte, die schon länger am Start sind? Was ist denen gelungen, was alle anderen nicht geschafft haben?
Halb Zufall, halb Publicity.
2016. Mastodon ist raus. Anscheinend redet Gargron online viel darüber. Jedenfalls mehr als die hinter Pleroma, Friendica und Hubzilla. Und das ebenfalls zentralistische und nicht mehr mit dem Fediverse verbundene Identi.ca ist eh nicht in den Händen von jemandem, der Deutsch kann, und auch Evan Prodromou redet nicht groß drüber, jedenfalls nicht mit Leuten, die ihm über Mainstream-Medien Publicity verschaffen könnten.
Ein deutsches Mainstream-Medium wird drauf aufmerksam und interviewt ihn und macht eine Story über ihn und Mastodon. Viele Leute lesen darüber, daß es an Microblogging nicht nur Twitter gibt. Twitter ist damals schon nicht unumstritten, aber allgemein wird bisher angenommen, daß es keinen Alternative dazu gibt. Identi.ca kennt keiner, GNU social kennt keiner, Pleroma kennt keiner, Friendica kennt keiner, Hubzilla kennt keiner. Aber von Mastodon lesen sie jetzt. Schon kommen neue Nutzer, die weiter microbloggen wollen, aber von Twitter wegwollen, nach Mastodon.
2017. Auf Twitter werden Furries, Manga-/Anime-Fans und queere Personen von rechten Störenfrieden angegriffen. Irgendjemand entweder unter ihnen oder unter den Leuten, die sie kennen, kennt Mastodon und sagt, da können sie doch hingehen. Es findet ein großer Exodus dieser Personengruppen von Twitter nach Mastodon statt. Mastodon wächst weiter. Wieder kennt niemand Identi.ca, GNU social, Pleroma, Friendica oder Hubzilla. Daher gehen ausnahmslos alle nach Mastodon, und nur Mastodon profitiert davon.
In den nächsten Jahren gibt es weitere solche Vorfälle auf Twitter. Wieder ist Mastodon die einzige bekannte Alternative (Grund: siehe 2016 und 2017). Wieder geht der Exodus nur nach Mastodon.
Ein Schneeball kommt ins Rollen: Mastodon wird größer, mehr Leute sind da, mehr Leute kennen es, mehr Leute empfehlen Mastodon, Mastodon wird größer und so weiter.
Mehr und mehr andere Serveranwendungen kommen ins Fediverse und verbinden sich mit Mastodon. Mastodon selbst ist aber so riesengroß, daß es innerhalb Mastodon geschätzte 99% allen Inhalts stellt. Inhalte von woanders sind auf Mastodon superselten.
Dazu kommt: Mastodon zeigt nicht an, woher Beiträge kommen. Mastodon zeigt bei Beiträgen von Misskey nicht an, daß die von Misskey kommen. Daher erfahren Mastodon-Nutzer auch nicht, daß die von Misskey kommen. Sie erfahren somit nicht, daß es Misskey gibt. Sie glauben, das sind Mastodon-Tröts.
Dazu kommt dann auch noch: Mastodon ist noch auf Version 3.x. Mastodon kann noch keine wie auch immer geartete Textformatierung darstellen. Das wird alles, aber auch wirklich alles von Mastodons HTML-"Sanitiser" rausgelöscht. Mastodon zeigt nur Klartext an. Das einzige, was Nicht-Mastodon-Beiträge von Mastodon-Tröts unterscheidet, ist, daß sie über 500 Zeichen lang sein können, daß Erwähnungen anders aussehen können (als wenn da einer drauf achtet), und daß Hashtags anders aussehen können (als wenn da einer drauf achtet).
Februar 2022. Elon Musk, längst ein durch und durch xenophober Faschist, kündigt an, Twitter aufzukaufen. Viele wollen weg, wissen aber nicht wohin. Millionen von ihnen werden eingeladen nach Mastodon. Ohne irgendeine Erwähnung von irgendeiner anderen Alternative. Weil die, die sie einladen, selbst auch nur Twitter und Mastodon kennen und nie von irgendeiner anderen Alternative gehört haben.
Februar/März 2022. Millionen von Twitter-Nutzern flüchten von Twitter nach Mastodon. Alle mit dem Wissensstand "es gibt nur Twitter und Mastodon" und "Fediverse = Mastodon". Das so schon nicht kleine Mastodon wächst auf ein Vielfaches seiner Größe. Sowohl die Anzahl als auch der relative Anteil derjenigen, die glauben, das Fediverse sei nur Mastodon, und es gäbe nur Twitter und Mastodon, steigt.
Die wenigen Pleroma-Nutzer scheinen die Situation zu verpennen.
Misskey wächst auch, aber nur in Ostasien und speziell in Japan, wo es den Stellenwert hat, den Mastodon in der westlichen Welt hat. Aufgrund von Zeitzonen- und Sprachbarrieren (und weil die meisten westlichen Fediverse-Server den Misskey-Leuchtturmserver misskey.io gesperrt haben) kommen aus Japan kaum bis keine Informationen über die Existenz von Misskey an westliche Mastodon-Nutzer. Nennenswerte Forkeys gibt es zu diesem Zeitpunkt in der westlichen Welt auch noch nicht.
Auf Friendica, Hubzilla und (streams) tut man auch nichts, weil das ein Twitter-Thema ist und man eher Richtung Facebook orientiert ist. Ein paar Friendica-Nutzer wären bereit gewesen, Leute von Facebook nach Friendica zu holen. Auf Hubzilla sorgte man sich eher darüber, wie tageslichttauglich Hubzilla gerade war, und die Community steckte allgemein in einer Lethargie. (streams) hatte zu diesem Zeitpunkt kaum Nutzer. Und überall schien man anzuzweifeln, daß man in der Lage ist, einen Riesenexodus von mehreren Millionen auf den existierenden Servern aufnehmen zu können.
Oktober 2022. Elon Musk kauft Twitter auf. Noch sehr viel mehr Leute wollen da weg, wissen aber nicht wohin. Sie werden nun nach Mastodon eingeladen von denen, die im Februar/März von Twitter nach Mastodon geflohen sind. Ihr Wissensstand ist immer noch derselbe: "Es gibt nur Twitter und Mastodon" und "Fediverse = Mastodon".
Pleroma? Misskey? Forkeys? Friendica? Hubzilla? (streams)? Siehe oben.
So, warum sind Friendica und Hubzilla nicht größer, obwohl sie älter sind?
Zunächst einmal: Mike Macgirvin hat bis 2023 angenommen, wenn er etwas baut, dann kommen die Leute schon von ganz alleine. Er ist kein Mensch der Öffentlichkeit. Er lebt mit seiner Frau, zwei Australian Shepherds und ein paar Hühnern auf einer Farm im australischen Outback, also in einer ziemlichen Einöde, wo man schon seine eigenen Nachbarn nicht sieht.
Mikes Hoffnung scheint auf dem Leidensdruck der Leute und ihrer Bereitschaft zum selbständigen Googlen zu beruhen. Mike glaubt, wenn die Leute mit Facebook nur unzufrieden genug sind, dann googlen sie von ganz alleine nach Alternativen, und dann werden sie seine Kreationen finden und als am besten erachten. Was er nicht auf dem Zettel hat: Niemand googlet nach dezentralen Facebook-Alternativen, wenn man nicht einmal eine vage Vorahnung hat, daß es sowas geben könnte. Oder daß es überhaupt Alternativen zu Facebook geben könnte. Social Networking = Facebook zur damaligen Zeit.
Jedenfalls:
März 2010. Facebook wird langsam so schlimm, daß Mike sich selbst daransetzt, eine freie, quelloffene, dezentrale, selbsthostbare und obendrein sehr mächtige Alternative zu entwickeln.
Mai 2010. Zum einen: Mike rollt die erste Vorabversion von Mistpark aus.
Zum anderen: Vier junge Apple-Fanbois in den USA finden Facebook auch schlimm. Auch sie wollen eine freie, quelloffene, dezentrale, selbsthostbare Alternative zu Facebook entwickeln. Zu diesem Zeitpunkt ist es noch zu früh, um Mistpark auf Google zu finden. Abgesehen davon rechnen auch die vier nicht damit, daß jemand so etwas schon mal gemacht haben könnte. Sonst hätten sie ja davon gehört, oder?
Jedenfalls: Die vier beschließen, ihren "Facebook-Killer" namens diaspora* über den Sommer 2010 zu entwickeln. Dafür brauchen sie aber Geld. $3.000 pro Nase, also $12.000 insgesamt. Sie starten eine Crowdfunding-Kampagne. Die geht komplett viral. Die Mainstream-Massenmedien picken auf, daß da vier Jungs etwas entwickeln wollen, was das immer schlimmer werdende Facebook ersetzen soll, und zwar, ohne die Nutzer auszuspionieren.
Binnen kürzester Zeit nehmen sie über $200.000 ein.
An dieser Stelle hätte Mike sich an die Massenmedien wenden können: Das, was die vier da vorhaben, das hat er schon fast fertig entwickelt. Ohne Crowdfunding. Tut er aber nicht. Er glaubt weiter an die Macht der Suchmaschinen in Kombination mit der Überlegenheit von Mistpark.
Juli 2010. Mike rollt den ersten stabilen Release von Mistpark aus. Die mächtigste föderierte Serversoftware, bis Mike es selbst entthronen wird. Wieder ohne jegliche Werbung, PR, Publicitiy oder was auch immer. Jetzt hätte Mike erst recht an die Tech- und Massenmedien gehen können und sagen können: "Hier, ich habe ganz alleine und für lau einen Facebook-Killer entwickelt, der sogar noch viel besser und mächtiger ist als Facebook!" Tut er aber nicht. Er glaubt weiter an die Macht der Suchmaschinen in Kombination mit der Überlegenheit von Mistpark.
Herbst 2010. Die erste superfrühe Alpha-Version von diaspora* wird ausgerollt. Im Grunde ist es eine ziemliche Enttäuschung. Es ist buggy, es läuft nur auf Mac-Servern, und es kann auch nicht sehr viel. Trotzdem wird es zumindest von genügend Hipstern angenommen, daß Google davon erfährt und diaspora* nach Strich und Faden für sein eigenes Google+ abkupfert und sogar das Aussehen von diaspora* zu Googles neuer Corporate Identity macht.
Auch etliche Tech-Geeks gehen nach diaspora*. Warum nicht nach Mistpark? Weil sie von Mistpark nichts wissen. Und weil sie angesichts der Sowieso-Verfügbarkeit von diaspora* kein Stück auf die Idee kommen zu googlen, ob's nicht noch was Besseres gibt.
Sogar auf diaspora* erfährt man erst allmählich von Mistpark, das inzwischen Friendika heißt, als es dessen Entwicklern gelungen ist, sich ohne jegliche API oder so mit diaspora* zu verbinden. Friendika wird auf diaspora* dadurch bekannt, daß a) es selbst dort vertreten ist und b) seine Nutzer zu diaspora*-Nutzern darüber reden. Ein paar ziehen tatsächlich um, weil ihnen diaspora* zu unterausgestattet ist. Das heißt, einige merken auch diese Unterausstattung erst, als sie Friendika ausprobieren.
Das geht so weiter. Auch als Tobias und Michael übernehmen, machen sie für Friendica kaum Werbung. Das heißt, es gibt einen Vortrag auf einem CCC. Aber der Vortrag ist nicht auf potentielle Nutzer ausgelegt, sondern auf Entwickler und Serveradmins.
Als Friendica sich mit Facebook verbindet, hofft man darauf, daß Friendica auf Facebook durch seine bloße Präsenz für sich werben kann. Klappt nicht.
April 2015. diaspora* ist weitestgehend wieder vergessen. Von Friendica weiß weiterhin keine Sau.
Nun wird das gerade erst aus der Red Matrix umgebaute Hubzilla erstmals vorgestellt. Es ist mächtiger als alles, was es bisher an dezentraler, föderierter Software gab. Aber weder Mike noch Mario noch Harald macht irgendwelche Werbung dafür. Wieder hofft man auf Suchmaschinen.
Die Communities von beiden machen auch nichts. Ihnen gehört das ja nicht, also ist Werbung nicht ihr Bier. Außerdem haben gerade die Friendica-Nutzer immer noch PTSD davon, daß Friendica-Nodes sogar auf dedizierten Servern oft nur ein paar hundert Leute aufnehmen können. Man könnte Leute allenfalls kleckerweise von Facebook holen, aber keine riesige Umsteigerlawine verkraften. Und auf Hubzilla redet man sich ein, daß Hubzilla ja eigentlich kein soziales Netzwerk ist, sondern ein "soziales CMS", aber trotzdem jetzt nicht so unbedingt direkt eine Facebook-Alternative, daß man jetzt unbedingt Leute von Facebook einladen müßte.
Das zieht sich bis heute so hin. Die erste zaghafte Werbung gibt es erst 2023. Und auch die gibt's nur im längst von Mastodon dominierten Fediverse. Und auch die hält sich zum einen nicht an Mastodons Regeln (zu lange Posts führen zu Mutes und Blocks, fehlende Hashtags führen zu Unauffindbarkeit, aber wer kann schon damit rechnen, daß man Hashtags braucht, wenn man doch selbst an Gruppen gewöhnt ist). Zum anderen spricht man nicht die Sprache der Mastodon-Nutzer, erklärt ihnen also nicht, daß Friendica/Hubzilla/(streams) im Fediverse und damit auch mit Mastodon verbunden ist. Selbst wenn man das täte, würde man mehr Mastodon-Nutzer verstören als anziehen.Und zum anderen: Was würde denn all die benannten Beteiligten davon abhalten, das zu tun genau jetzt? Warum passiert genau das noch nicht? Wäre doch, wenn alle das wollen, leicht möglich, oder? Abschauen, was Mastodon richtig gemacht hat nach außen, und das genau so gut oder besser machen? Welche Entschuldigung gibt es dann im Moment, das nicht zu tun?
Die "Entschuldigung" wäre, daß viele andere Fediverse-Anwendungen dann aufhören könnten.
Ich rede nicht von denen, die von vornherein ganz anders aufgestellt sind als Mastodon (PeerTube, Funkwhale, Owncast, Mobilizon, Flohmarkt, Ibex etc.).
Ich rede von denen, die im Prinzip auch das tun könnten, was Mastodon. Deren Alleinstellungsmerkmal aber ist, daß sie eben gerade anders sind als Mastodon und Dinge anders machen als Mastodon (Pleroma, Akkoma, Misskey, Sharkey, CherryPick, Iceshrimp-JS, Iceshrimp.NET, GoToSocial, Mitra, snac2, Socialhome, Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams), Forte etc.).
Wenn die alle total an Mastodon angepaßt werden, wenn die alle ganz genau wie Mastodon werden, wofür braucht es die dann noch? Warum sollte sie jemand benutzen? Was außer dem Namen unterscheidet sie dann noch von Mastodon?
Und vor allem: Glaubst du wirklich, die Entwickler werden ihre Babys zusammenschnippeln auf Mastodon-Format, nur um Frieden mit Mastodon zu haben? Und glaubst du auch, die Serveradmins werden auf diese zusammengeschnippelten neuen Versionen updaten?
Okay, nehmen wir mal Hubzilla als Beispiel, das ultimative Anti-Mastodon.
Nehmen wir mal an, morgen früh (um das Ganze möglichst schnell zu machen; du willst ja, daß das jetzt sofort augenblicklich passiert) rollen @Mario Vavti und @Harald Eilertsen Hubzilla 12.0 aus. Änderungen:- Die Mastodon Client API wird eingeführt. Der gesamte Funktionsumfang wird reduziert auf das, was die Mastodon Client API abdeckt. Hubzillas eigene Client API wird abgeschafft.
- ActivityPub ist jetzt das Basisprotokoll.
- Unterstützung für alle anderen Protokolle, inklusive Zot6 und diaspora*, aber auch der RSS- und Atom-Aggregator, fliegen raus.
- Es gibt keine mehreren Identitäten pro Konto mehr, weil Mastodon die nicht versteht. Jeder Kanal wird zu einem eigenständigen Konto mit denselben Credentials wie das Konto, zu dem er vorher gehörte.
- Das heißt, Forenkanäle werden gänzlich gelöscht, weil Mastodon keine Gruppen unterstützt.
- Es gibt keine nomadische Identität mehr, weil Mastodon das nicht hat und damit nicht umgehen kann. Klone werden zu eigenständigen Konten. Umziehen geht höchstens noch per Export und Import. Und auch die Formate sind an Mastodon angepaßt.
- Alle Profile außer dem öffentlichen werden gelöscht. Damit könnte Mastodon sowieso nicht umgehen.
- Beim öffentlichen Profil werden alle Profilfelder außer dem Profiltext gelöscht. Vier neue Mehrzweck-Profilfelder werden angelegt. Das ist das, was Mastodon versteht.
- Das Konzept bidirektionaler Kontakte wird ersetzt durch einseitiges Folgen und auch einseitiges Gefolgtwerden wie auf Twitter. Das ist das, was Mastodon versteht.
- Privacy-Gruppen werden umgewandelt in Listen, die nur noch haargenau die Features und die Handhabung von Mastodon-Listen haben.
- Es gibt keine verschiedenen Kanalrollen mehr, nur noch eine Art von Konto. Wie auf Mastodon. Wie gesagt, Forenkanäle werden nicht in Konten umgewandelt, sondern gänzlich gelöscht.
- Das komplette Berechtigungssystem wird ersatzlos gelöscht. Alle existierenden Berechtigungen (außer bei DMs) werden auf öffentlich gesetzt.
- Die kanalweite, jetzt kontoweite Filter-Blacklist wird umgewandelt in jeweils eine Filtereinstellung pro Zeile. Reine Schlüsselwörter werden normale Filter. Schlüsselwörter mit RegEx, die nur dazu dienen, daß die Wörter nur als Ganzes erkannt werden, werden umgewandelt in entsprechende Filter. Alle anderen Filterzeilen werden ersatzlos gelöscht.
- Die kanalweite, jetzt kontoweite Filter-Whitelist wird ersatzlos gelöscht, ebenso die individuellen Filter pro Kontakt.
- Überhaupt, alle Pro-Kontakt-Einstellungen werden gelöscht, weil Mastodon sowas nicht unterstützt und auch nicht damit rechnet.
- Die NSFW-Filterliste könnte auch entsprechend in Filterzeilen konvertiert werden, die Posts nicht löschen, sondern verstecken. Weil dieses Feature auf Mastodon aber nie Teil der Mastodon-Kultur geworden ist, die noch auf Mastodon 3.x basiert, wird die NSFW-Filterliste gänzlich und ersatzlos gelöscht.
- Die maximale Postlänge wird von 16.777.215 Zeichen auf 500 Zeichen reduziert. Längere Beiträge werden automatisch in Threads zerstückelt.
- Titel werden abgeschafft; existierende Titel werden gelöscht. Damit kann Mastodon eh nichts anfangen.
- Das Zusammenfassungsfeld wird in CW-Feld umbenannt, damit es aus Mastodon-Sicht nicht mehr falsch benutzt wird.
- Jegliche Form von Textformatierung und -gestaltung wird ersatzlos abgeschafft. Schon existierende Formatierungen werden entfernt.
- Eingebettete Bilder und mehr als vier Bilder pro Beitrag werden auch abgeschafft. Von den Bildern in Beiträgen werden die ersten vier in Dateianhänge umgewandelt und die übrigen gelöscht. Alt-Texte wandern in separate Text- und Datenbankfelder mit einem harten Limit von 1.500 Zeichen.
- Zitate werden abgeschafft. Auch die könnte Mastodon darstellen, aber nicht erzeugen, also gehören sie nicht nach Mastodon.
- Das Teilen von Beiträgen wird in "Zitieren" umbenannt und umgestellt auf dieselbe Art und Weise, die auch Mastodon anwendet. Oder gleich komplett abgeschafft, weil es Mastodon-Nutzer stören könnte.
- Das Wiederholen von Beiträgen wird in "Boosten" umbenannt. Oder gleich in "Retröten", weil das mehr Mastodon-Nutzer verstehen.
- Umfragen können nur noch vier Optionen haben, deren Namen auf 50 Zeichen beschränkt sind, und das Wählen mehrerer Optionen geht nicht mehr.
- Jegliche Unterstützung geschlossener Konversationen wird abgeschafft zugunsten eines losen Threadmodells wie auf Twitter. Das ist das, was Mastodon versteht. Die Unterstützung für FEP-171b "Conversation Containers" wird komplett und ersatzlos gestrichen. Das ganze FEP wird gelöscht.
- Posts heißen jetzt Tröts.
- Kommentare heißen jetzt auch Tröts.
- Der Zähler für ungelesene Beiträge wird abgeschafft.
- Die HQ-Seite wird abgeschafft. Die Kanalseite wird abgeschafft. Es gibt nur noch den Network-Stream. Der wird darauf hartgecodet, nur noch Einzelbeiträge zu zeigen und keine ganzen Konversationen mehr. Das soll verhindern, daß Hubzilla-Nutzer immer noch Hubzilla irgendwie anders nutzen, als Mastodon-Nutzer Mastodon nutzen.
- Der Filespace wird abgeschafft. WebDAV sowieso. Dateien werden so gehandhabt wie auf Mastodon.
- Der Eventkalender wird abgeschafft, weil Mastodon eh keine Events kann.
- Der CalDAV-Kalenderserver wird abgeschafft.
- Der CardDAV-Adreßbuchserver wird abgeschafft.
- Artikel werden abgeschafft. Irritieren Mastodon-Nutzer nur.
- Planungskarten werden abgeschafft. Irritieren Mastodon-Nutzer nur.
- Wikis werden abgeschafft. Irritieren Mastodon-Nutzer nur.
- Webpages werden abgeschafft. Hubzilla wird eine neue offizielle Website brauchen.
- Kanalquellen werden abgeschafft. Auf Mastodon kann man ja auch nicht mit Bordmitteln Bots bauen, außerdem sind Bots böse.
- Der PDL-Editor wird abgeschafft. Die Unterstützung von Themes wird abgeschafft. Hubzillas Oberfläche wird hartgecodet. Entweder sieht es jetzt wie Mastodon oder wie Twitter aus. Egal, ob es eigentlich aus einer Facebook-Alternative hervorgegangen ist. Aber die primäre Facebook-Alternative im Fediverse ist jetzt auch Mastodon.
- Alle anderen optionalen Apps werden auch abgeschafft. Hubzilla ist nicht mehr modular.
So, jetzt frage ich dich: Glaubst du, Mario und Harald machen das wirklich?
Glaubst du wirklich, sie kastrieren Hubzilla tatsächlich freiwillig um locker 90% seiner Features, nur um sich Mastodon anzubiedern? Die beiden, die sich bis jetzt von Gargron überhaupt gar nichts haben sagen lassen?
Und glaubst du allen Ernstes, Hub-Admins wie @Der Pepe (Hubzilla) ⁂, @Mark Nowiasz oder @Steffen gehen wirklich dabei und stellen ihre Hubs auf das so zusammengestrichene Hubzilla 12.0 um, das sich außer im Namen praktisch nicht mehr von Mastodon unterscheidet? Für einen Diktatfrieden mit dem eigentlich konzeptionell völlig anderen und bis dahin featuremäßig hoffnungslos unterlegenen Mastodon?
Und warum glaubst du, daß genau diese Personen genau das auch tatsächlich tun werden? Auch ich hätte dafür gerne eine ehrliche Antwort.
Wohlgemerkt, @Steffen 🦉🇪🇺 hat erst vor kurzem einen Mastodon-Server abgeschaltet und setzt jetzt nur noch auf Friendica und Hubzilla. Und du glaubst allen Ernstes, er läßt zu, daß beide durch neue Versionen der Serversoftware zu Mastodon-Klonen reduziert werden?
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #diaspora* #Mistpark #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Mastoverse #MastodonFediverse -
@Kristian
Zum einen: Warum hat Mastodon als deutlich jüngeres Projekt deutlich mehr Nutzer für sich gewinnen können als die Projekte, die schon länger am Start sind? Was ist denen gelungen, was alle anderen nicht geschafft haben?
Halb Zufall, halb Publicity.
2016. Mastodon ist raus. Anscheinend redet Gargron online viel darüber. Jedenfalls mehr als die hinter Pleroma, Friendica und Hubzilla. Und das ebenfalls zentralistische und nicht mehr mit dem Fediverse verbundene Identi.ca ist eh nicht in den Händen von jemandem, der Deutsch kann, und auch Evan Prodromou redet nicht groß drüber, jedenfalls nicht mit Leuten, die ihm über Mainstream-Medien Publicity verschaffen könnten.
Ein deutsches Mainstream-Medium wird drauf aufmerksam und interviewt ihn und macht eine Story über ihn und Mastodon. Viele Leute lesen darüber, daß es an Microblogging nicht nur Twitter gibt. Twitter ist damals schon nicht unumstritten, aber allgemein wird bisher angenommen, daß es keinen Alternative dazu gibt. Identi.ca kennt keiner, GNU social kennt keiner, Pleroma kennt keiner, Friendica kennt keiner, Hubzilla kennt keiner. Aber von Mastodon lesen sie jetzt. Schon kommen neue Nutzer, die weiter microbloggen wollen, aber von Twitter wegwollen, nach Mastodon.
2017. Auf Twitter werden Furries, Manga-/Anime-Fans und queere Personen von rechten Störenfrieden angegriffen. Irgendjemand entweder unter ihnen oder unter den Leuten, die sie kennen, kennt Mastodon und sagt, da können sie doch hingehen. Es findet ein großer Exodus dieser Personengruppen von Twitter nach Mastodon statt. Mastodon wächst weiter. Wieder kennt niemand Identi.ca, GNU social, Pleroma, Friendica oder Hubzilla. Daher gehen ausnahmslos alle nach Mastodon, und nur Mastodon profitiert davon.
In den nächsten Jahren gibt es weitere solche Vorfälle auf Twitter. Wieder ist Mastodon die einzige bekannte Alternative (Grund: siehe 2016 und 2017). Wieder geht der Exodus nur nach Mastodon.
Ein Schneeball kommt ins Rollen: Mastodon wird größer, mehr Leute sind da, mehr Leute kennen es, mehr Leute empfehlen Mastodon, Mastodon wird größer und so weiter.
Mehr und mehr andere Serveranwendungen kommen ins Fediverse und verbinden sich mit Mastodon. Mastodon selbst ist aber so riesengroß, daß es innerhalb Mastodon geschätzte 99% allen Inhalts stellt. Inhalte von woanders sind auf Mastodon superselten.
Dazu kommt: Mastodon zeigt nicht an, woher Beiträge kommen. Mastodon zeigt bei Beiträgen von Misskey nicht an, daß die von Misskey kommen. Daher erfahren Mastodon-Nutzer auch nicht, daß die von Misskey kommen. Sie erfahren somit nicht, daß es Misskey gibt. Sie glauben, das sind Mastodon-Tröts.
Dazu kommt dann auch noch: Mastodon ist noch auf Version 3.x. Mastodon kann noch keine wie auch immer geartete Textformatierung darstellen. Das wird alles, aber auch wirklich alles von Mastodons HTML-"Sanitiser" rausgelöscht. Mastodon zeigt nur Klartext an. Das einzige, was Nicht-Mastodon-Beiträge von Mastodon-Tröts unterscheidet, ist, daß sie über 500 Zeichen lang sein können, daß Erwähnungen anders aussehen können (als wenn da einer drauf achtet), und daß Hashtags anders aussehen können (als wenn da einer drauf achtet).
Februar 2022. Elon Musk, längst ein durch und durch xenophober Faschist, kündigt an, Twitter aufzukaufen. Viele wollen weg, wissen aber nicht wohin. Millionen von ihnen werden eingeladen nach Mastodon. Ohne irgendeine Erwähnung von irgendeiner anderen Alternative. Weil die, die sie einladen, selbst auch nur Twitter und Mastodon kennen und nie von irgendeiner anderen Alternative gehört haben.
Februar/März 2022. Millionen von Twitter-Nutzern flüchten von Twitter nach Mastodon. Alle mit dem Wissensstand "es gibt nur Twitter und Mastodon" und "Fediverse = Mastodon". Das so schon nicht kleine Mastodon wächst auf ein Vielfaches seiner Größe. Sowohl die Anzahl als auch der relative Anteil derjenigen, die glauben, das Fediverse sei nur Mastodon, und es gäbe nur Twitter und Mastodon, steigt.
Die wenigen Pleroma-Nutzer scheinen die Situation zu verpennen.
Misskey wächst auch, aber nur in Ostasien und speziell in Japan, wo es den Stellenwert hat, den Mastodon in der westlichen Welt hat. Aufgrund von Zeitzonen- und Sprachbarrieren (und weil die meisten westlichen Fediverse-Server den Misskey-Leuchtturmserver misskey.io gesperrt haben) kommen aus Japan kaum bis keine Informationen über die Existenz von Misskey an westliche Mastodon-Nutzer. Nennenswerte Forkeys gibt es zu diesem Zeitpunkt in der westlichen Welt auch noch nicht.
Auf Friendica, Hubzilla und (streams) tut man auch nichts, weil das ein Twitter-Thema ist und man eher Richtung Facebook orientiert ist. Ein paar Friendica-Nutzer wären bereit gewesen, Leute von Facebook nach Friendica zu holen. Auf Hubzilla sorgte man sich eher darüber, wie tageslichttauglich Hubzilla gerade war, und die Community steckte allgemein in einer Lethargie. (streams) hatte zu diesem Zeitpunkt kaum Nutzer. Und überall schien man anzuzweifeln, daß man in der Lage ist, einen Riesenexodus von mehreren Millionen auf den existierenden Servern aufnehmen zu können.
Oktober 2022. Elon Musk kauft Twitter auf. Noch sehr viel mehr Leute wollen da weg, wissen aber nicht wohin. Sie werden nun nach Mastodon eingeladen von denen, die im Februar/März von Twitter nach Mastodon geflohen sind. Ihr Wissensstand ist immer noch derselbe: "Es gibt nur Twitter und Mastodon" und "Fediverse = Mastodon".
Pleroma? Misskey? Forkeys? Friendica? Hubzilla? (streams)? Siehe oben.
So, warum sind Friendica und Hubzilla nicht größer, obwohl sie älter sind?
Zunächst einmal: Mike Macgirvin hat bis 2023 angenommen, wenn er etwas baut, dann kommen die Leute schon von ganz alleine. Er ist kein Mensch der Öffentlichkeit. Er lebt mit seiner Frau, zwei Australian Shepherds und ein paar Hühnern auf einer Farm im australischen Outback, also in einer ziemlichen Einöde, wo man schon seine eigenen Nachbarn nicht sieht.
Mikes Hoffnung scheint auf dem Leidensdruck der Leute und ihrer Bereitschaft zum selbständigen Googlen zu beruhen. Mike glaubt, wenn die Leute mit Facebook nur unzufrieden genug sind, dann googlen sie von ganz alleine nach Alternativen, und dann werden sie seine Kreationen finden und als am besten erachten. Was er nicht auf dem Zettel hat: Niemand googlet nach dezentralen Facebook-Alternativen, wenn man nicht einmal eine vage Vorahnung hat, daß es sowas geben könnte. Oder daß es überhaupt Alternativen zu Facebook geben könnte. Social Networking = Facebook zur damaligen Zeit.
Jedenfalls:
März 2010. Facebook wird langsam so schlimm, daß Mike sich selbst daransetzt, eine freie, quelloffene, dezentrale, selbsthostbare und obendrein sehr mächtige Alternative zu entwickeln.
Mai 2010. Zum einen: Mike rollt die erste Vorabversion von Mistpark aus.
Zum anderen: Vier junge Apple-Fanbois in den USA finden Facebook auch schlimm. Auch sie wollen eine freie, quelloffene, dezentrale, selbsthostbare Alternative zu Facebook entwickeln. Zu diesem Zeitpunkt ist es noch zu früh, um Mistpark auf Google zu finden. Abgesehen davon rechnen auch die vier nicht damit, daß jemand so etwas schon mal gemacht haben könnte. Sonst hätten sie ja davon gehört, oder?
Jedenfalls: Die vier beschließen, ihren "Facebook-Killer" namens diaspora* über den Sommer 2010 zu entwickeln. Dafür brauchen sie aber Geld. $3.000 pro Nase, also $12.000 insgesamt. Sie starten eine Crowdfunding-Kampagne. Die geht komplett viral. Die Mainstream-Massenmedien picken auf, daß da vier Jungs etwas entwickeln wollen, was das immer schlimmer werdende Facebook ersetzen soll, und zwar, ohne die Nutzer auszuspionieren.
Binnen kürzester Zeit nehmen sie über $200.000 ein.
An dieser Stelle hätte Mike sich an die Massenmedien wenden können: Das, was die vier da vorhaben, das hat er schon fast fertig entwickelt. Ohne Crowdfunding. Tut er aber nicht. Er glaubt weiter an die Macht der Suchmaschinen in Kombination mit der Überlegenheit von Mistpark.
Juli 2010. Mike rollt den ersten stabilen Release von Mistpark aus. Die mächtigste föderierte Serversoftware, bis Mike es selbst entthronen wird. Wieder ohne jegliche Werbung, PR, Publicitiy oder was auch immer. Jetzt hätte Mike erst recht an die Tech- und Massenmedien gehen können und sagen können: "Hier, ich habe ganz alleine und für lau einen Facebook-Killer entwickelt, der sogar noch viel besser und mächtiger ist als Facebook!" Tut er aber nicht. Er glaubt weiter an die Macht der Suchmaschinen in Kombination mit der Überlegenheit von Mistpark.
Herbst 2010. Die erste superfrühe Alpha-Version von diaspora* wird ausgerollt. Im Grunde ist es eine ziemliche Enttäuschung. Es ist buggy, es läuft nur auf Mac-Servern, und es kann auch nicht sehr viel. Trotzdem wird es zumindest von genügend Hipstern angenommen, daß Google davon erfährt und diaspora* nach Strich und Faden für sein eigenes Google+ abkupfert und sogar das Aussehen von diaspora* zu Googles neuer Corporate Identity macht.
Auch etliche Tech-Geeks gehen nach diaspora*. Warum nicht nach Mistpark? Weil sie von Mistpark nichts wissen. Und weil sie angesichts der Sowieso-Verfügbarkeit von diaspora* kein Stück auf die Idee kommen zu googlen, ob's nicht noch was Besseres gibt.
Sogar auf diaspora* erfährt man erst allmählich von Mistpark, das inzwischen Friendika heißt, als es dessen Entwicklern gelungen ist, sich ohne jegliche API oder so mit diaspora* zu verbinden. Friendika wird auf diaspora* dadurch bekannt, daß a) es selbst dort vertreten ist und b) seine Nutzer zu diaspora*-Nutzern darüber reden. Ein paar ziehen tatsächlich um, weil ihnen diaspora* zu unterausgestattet ist. Das heißt, einige merken auch diese Unterausstattung erst, als sie Friendika ausprobieren.
Das geht so weiter. Auch als Tobias und Michael übernehmen, machen sie für Friendica kaum Werbung. Das heißt, es gibt einen Vortrag auf einem CCC. Aber der Vortrag ist nicht auf potentielle Nutzer ausgelegt, sondern auf Entwickler und Serveradmins.
Als Friendica sich mit Facebook verbindet, hofft man darauf, daß Friendica auf Facebook durch seine bloße Präsenz für sich werben kann. Klappt nicht.
April 2015. diaspora* ist weitestgehend wieder vergessen. Von Friendica weiß weiterhin keine Sau.
Nun wird das gerade erst aus der Red Matrix umgebaute Hubzilla erstmals vorgestellt. Es ist mächtiger als alles, was es bisher an dezentraler, föderierter Software gab. Aber weder Mike noch Mario noch Harald macht irgendwelche Werbung dafür. Wieder hofft man auf Suchmaschinen.
Die Communities von beiden machen auch nichts. Ihnen gehört das ja nicht, also ist Werbung nicht ihr Bier. Außerdem haben gerade die Friendica-Nutzer immer noch PTSD davon, daß Friendica-Nodes sogar auf dedizierten Servern oft nur ein paar hundert Leute aufnehmen können. Man könnte Leute allenfalls kleckerweise von Facebook holen, aber keine riesige Umsteigerlawine verkraften. Und auf Hubzilla redet man sich ein, daß Hubzilla ja eigentlich kein soziales Netzwerk ist, sondern ein "soziales CMS", aber trotzdem jetzt nicht so unbedingt direkt eine Facebook-Alternative, daß man jetzt unbedingt Leute von Facebook einladen müßte.
Das zieht sich bis heute so hin. Die erste zaghafte Werbung gibt es erst 2023. Und auch die gibt's nur im längst von Mastodon dominierten Fediverse. Und auch die hält sich zum einen nicht an Mastodons Regeln (zu lange Posts führen zu Mutes und Blocks, fehlende Hashtags führen zu Unauffindbarkeit, aber wer kann schon damit rechnen, daß man Hashtags braucht, wenn man doch selbst an Gruppen gewöhnt ist). Zum anderen spricht man nicht die Sprache der Mastodon-Nutzer, erklärt ihnen also nicht, daß Friendica/Hubzilla/(streams) im Fediverse und damit auch mit Mastodon verbunden ist. Selbst wenn man das täte, würde man mehr Mastodon-Nutzer verstören als anziehen.Und zum anderen: Was würde denn all die benannten Beteiligten davon abhalten, das zu tun genau jetzt? Warum passiert genau das noch nicht? Wäre doch, wenn alle das wollen, leicht möglich, oder? Abschauen, was Mastodon richtig gemacht hat nach außen, und das genau so gut oder besser machen? Welche Entschuldigung gibt es dann im Moment, das nicht zu tun?
Die "Entschuldigung" wäre, daß viele andere Fediverse-Anwendungen dann aufhören könnten.
Ich rede nicht von denen, die von vornherein ganz anders aufgestellt sind als Mastodon (PeerTube, Funkwhale, Owncast, Mobilizon, Flohmarkt, Ibex etc.).
Ich rede von denen, die im Prinzip auch das tun könnten, was Mastodon. Deren Alleinstellungsmerkmal aber ist, daß sie eben gerade anders sind als Mastodon und Dinge anders machen als Mastodon (Pleroma, Akkoma, Misskey, Sharkey, CherryPick, Iceshrimp-JS, Iceshrimp.NET, GoToSocial, Mitra, snac2, Socialhome, Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams), Forte etc.).
Wenn die alle total an Mastodon angepaßt werden, wenn die alle ganz genau wie Mastodon werden, wofür braucht es die dann noch? Warum sollte sie jemand benutzen? Was außer dem Namen unterscheidet sie dann noch von Mastodon?
Und vor allem: Glaubst du wirklich, die Entwickler werden ihre Babys zusammenschnippeln auf Mastodon-Format, nur um Frieden mit Mastodon zu haben? Und glaubst du auch, die Serveradmins werden auf diese zusammengeschnippelten neuen Versionen updaten?
Okay, nehmen wir mal Hubzilla als Beispiel, das ultimative Anti-Mastodon.
Nehmen wir mal an, morgen früh (um das Ganze möglichst schnell zu machen; du willst ja, daß das jetzt sofort augenblicklich passiert) rollen @Mario Vavti und @Harald Eilertsen Hubzilla 12.0 aus. Änderungen:- Die Mastodon Client API wird eingeführt. Der gesamte Funktionsumfang wird reduziert auf das, was die Mastodon Client API abdeckt. Hubzillas eigene Client API wird abgeschafft.
- ActivityPub ist jetzt das Basisprotokoll.
- Unterstützung für alle anderen Protokolle, inklusive Zot6 und diaspora*, aber auch der RSS- und Atom-Aggregator, fliegen raus.
- Es gibt keine mehreren Identitäten pro Konto mehr, weil Mastodon die nicht versteht. Jeder Kanal wird zu einem eigenständigen Konto mit denselben Credentials wie das Konto, zu dem er vorher gehörte.
- Das heißt, Forenkanäle werden gänzlich gelöscht, weil Mastodon keine Gruppen unterstützt.
- Es gibt keine nomadische Identität mehr, weil Mastodon das nicht hat und damit nicht umgehen kann. Klone werden zu eigenständigen Konten. Umziehen geht höchstens noch per Export und Import. Und auch die Formate sind an Mastodon angepaßt.
- Alle Profile außer dem öffentlichen werden gelöscht. Damit könnte Mastodon sowieso nicht umgehen.
- Beim öffentlichen Profil werden alle Profilfelder außer dem Profiltext gelöscht. Vier neue Mehrzweck-Profilfelder werden angelegt. Das ist das, was Mastodon versteht.
- Das Konzept bidirektionaler Kontakte wird ersetzt durch einseitiges Folgen und auch einseitiges Gefolgtwerden wie auf Twitter. Das ist das, was Mastodon versteht.
- Privacy-Gruppen werden umgewandelt in Listen, die nur noch haargenau die Features und die Handhabung von Mastodon-Listen haben.
- Es gibt keine verschiedenen Kanalrollen mehr, nur noch eine Art von Konto. Wie auf Mastodon. Wie gesagt, Forenkanäle werden nicht in Konten umgewandelt, sondern gänzlich gelöscht.
- Das komplette Berechtigungssystem wird ersatzlos gelöscht. Alle existierenden Berechtigungen (außer bei DMs) werden auf öffentlich gesetzt.
- Die kanalweite, jetzt kontoweite Filter-Blacklist wird umgewandelt in jeweils eine Filtereinstellung pro Zeile. Reine Schlüsselwörter werden normale Filter. Schlüsselwörter mit RegEx, die nur dazu dienen, daß die Wörter nur als Ganzes erkannt werden, werden umgewandelt in entsprechende Filter. Alle anderen Filterzeilen werden ersatzlos gelöscht.
- Die kanalweite, jetzt kontoweite Filter-Whitelist wird ersatzlos gelöscht, ebenso die individuellen Filter pro Kontakt.
- Überhaupt, alle Pro-Kontakt-Einstellungen werden gelöscht, weil Mastodon sowas nicht unterstützt und auch nicht damit rechnet.
- Die NSFW-Filterliste könnte auch entsprechend in Filterzeilen konvertiert werden, die Posts nicht löschen, sondern verstecken. Weil dieses Feature auf Mastodon aber nie Teil der Mastodon-Kultur geworden ist, die noch auf Mastodon 3.x basiert, wird die NSFW-Filterliste gänzlich und ersatzlos gelöscht.
- Die maximale Postlänge wird von 16.777.215 Zeichen auf 500 Zeichen reduziert. Längere Beiträge werden automatisch in Threads zerstückelt.
- Titel werden abgeschafft; existierende Titel werden gelöscht. Damit kann Mastodon eh nichts anfangen.
- Das Zusammenfassungsfeld wird in CW-Feld umbenannt, damit es aus Mastodon-Sicht nicht mehr falsch benutzt wird.
- Jegliche Form von Textformatierung und -gestaltung wird ersatzlos abgeschafft. Schon existierende Formatierungen werden entfernt.
- Eingebettete Bilder und mehr als vier Bilder pro Beitrag werden auch abgeschafft. Von den Bildern in Beiträgen werden die ersten vier in Dateianhänge umgewandelt und die übrigen gelöscht. Alt-Texte wandern in separate Text- und Datenbankfelder mit einem harten Limit von 1.500 Zeichen.
- Zitate werden abgeschafft. Auch die könnte Mastodon darstellen, aber nicht erzeugen, also gehören sie nicht nach Mastodon.
- Das Teilen von Beiträgen wird in "Zitieren" umbenannt und umgestellt auf dieselbe Art und Weise, die auch Mastodon anwendet. Oder gleich komplett abgeschafft, weil es Mastodon-Nutzer stören könnte.
- Das Wiederholen von Beiträgen wird in "Boosten" umbenannt. Oder gleich in "Retröten", weil das mehr Mastodon-Nutzer verstehen.
- Umfragen können nur noch vier Optionen haben, deren Namen auf 50 Zeichen beschränkt sind, und das Wählen mehrerer Optionen geht nicht mehr.
- Jegliche Unterstützung geschlossener Konversationen wird abgeschafft zugunsten eines losen Threadmodells wie auf Twitter. Das ist das, was Mastodon versteht. Die Unterstützung für FEP-171b "Conversation Containers" wird komplett und ersatzlos gestrichen. Das ganze FEP wird gelöscht.
- Posts heißen jetzt Tröts.
- Kommentare heißen jetzt auch Tröts.
- Der Zähler für ungelesene Beiträge wird abgeschafft.
- Die HQ-Seite wird abgeschafft. Die Kanalseite wird abgeschafft. Es gibt nur noch den Network-Stream. Der wird darauf hartgecodet, nur noch Einzelbeiträge zu zeigen und keine ganzen Konversationen mehr. Das soll verhindern, daß Hubzilla-Nutzer immer noch Hubzilla irgendwie anders nutzen, als Mastodon-Nutzer Mastodon nutzen.
- Der Filespace wird abgeschafft. WebDAV sowieso. Dateien werden so gehandhabt wie auf Mastodon.
- Der Eventkalender wird abgeschafft, weil Mastodon eh keine Events kann.
- Der CalDAV-Kalenderserver wird abgeschafft.
- Der CardDAV-Adreßbuchserver wird abgeschafft.
- Artikel werden abgeschafft. Irritieren Mastodon-Nutzer nur.
- Planungskarten werden abgeschafft. Irritieren Mastodon-Nutzer nur.
- Wikis werden abgeschafft. Irritieren Mastodon-Nutzer nur.
- Webpages werden abgeschafft. Hubzilla wird eine neue offizielle Website brauchen.
- Kanalquellen werden abgeschafft. Auf Mastodon kann man ja auch nicht mit Bordmitteln Bots bauen, außerdem sind Bots böse.
- Der PDL-Editor wird abgeschafft. Die Unterstützung von Themes wird abgeschafft. Hubzillas Oberfläche wird hartgecodet. Entweder sieht es jetzt wie Mastodon oder wie Twitter aus. Egal, ob es eigentlich aus einer Facebook-Alternative hervorgegangen ist. Aber die primäre Facebook-Alternative im Fediverse ist jetzt auch Mastodon.
- Alle anderen optionalen Apps werden auch abgeschafft. Hubzilla ist nicht mehr modular.
So, jetzt frage ich dich: Glaubst du, Mario und Harald machen das wirklich?
Glaubst du wirklich, sie kastrieren Hubzilla tatsächlich freiwillig um locker 90% seiner Features, nur um sich Mastodon anzubiedern? Die beiden, die sich bis jetzt von Gargron überhaupt gar nichts haben sagen lassen?
Und glaubst du allen Ernstes, Hub-Admins wie @Der Pepe (Hubzilla) ⁂, @Mark Nowiasz oder @Steffen gehen wirklich dabei und stellen ihre Hubs auf das so zusammengestrichene Hubzilla 12.0 um, das sich außer im Namen praktisch nicht mehr von Mastodon unterscheidet? Für einen Diktatfrieden mit dem eigentlich konzeptionell völlig anderen und bis dahin featuremäßig hoffnungslos unterlegenen Mastodon?
Und warum glaubst du, daß genau diese Personen genau das auch tatsächlich tun werden? Auch ich hätte dafür gerne eine ehrliche Antwort.
Wohlgemerkt, @Steffen 🦉🇪🇺 hat erst vor kurzem einen Mastodon-Server abgeschaltet und setzt jetzt nur noch auf Friendica und Hubzilla. Und du glaubst allen Ernstes, er läßt zu, daß beide durch neue Versionen der Serversoftware zu Mastodon-Klonen reduziert werden?
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #diaspora* #Mistpark #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Mastoverse #MastodonFediverse -
@Kristian
Zum einen: Warum hat Mastodon als deutlich jüngeres Projekt deutlich mehr Nutzer für sich gewinnen können als die Projekte, die schon länger am Start sind? Was ist denen gelungen, was alle anderen nicht geschafft haben?
Halb Zufall, halb Publicity.
2016. Mastodon ist raus. Anscheinend redet Gargron online viel darüber. Jedenfalls mehr als die hinter Pleroma, Friendica und Hubzilla. Und das ebenfalls zentralistische und nicht mehr mit dem Fediverse verbundene Identi.ca ist eh nicht in den Händen von jemandem, der Deutsch kann, und auch Evan Prodromou redet nicht groß drüber, jedenfalls nicht mit Leuten, die ihm über Mainstream-Medien Publicity verschaffen könnten.
Ein deutsches Mainstream-Medium wird drauf aufmerksam und interviewt ihn und macht eine Story über ihn und Mastodon. Viele Leute lesen darüber, daß es an Microblogging nicht nur Twitter gibt. Twitter ist damals schon nicht unumstritten, aber allgemein wird bisher angenommen, daß es keinen Alternative dazu gibt. Identi.ca kennt keiner, GNU social kennt keiner, Pleroma kennt keiner, Friendica kennt keiner, Hubzilla kennt keiner. Aber von Mastodon lesen sie jetzt. Schon kommen neue Nutzer, die weiter microbloggen wollen, aber von Twitter wegwollen, nach Mastodon.
2017. Auf Twitter werden Furries, Manga-/Anime-Fans und queere Personen von rechten Störenfrieden angegriffen. Irgendjemand entweder unter ihnen oder unter den Leuten, die sie kennen, kennt Mastodon und sagt, da können sie doch hingehen. Es findet ein großer Exodus dieser Personengruppen von Twitter nach Mastodon statt. Mastodon wächst weiter. Wieder kennt niemand Identi.ca, GNU social, Pleroma, Friendica oder Hubzilla. Daher gehen ausnahmslos alle nach Mastodon, und nur Mastodon profitiert davon.
In den nächsten Jahren gibt es weitere solche Vorfälle auf Twitter. Wieder ist Mastodon die einzige bekannte Alternative (Grund: siehe 2016 und 2017). Wieder geht der Exodus nur nach Mastodon.
Ein Schneeball kommt ins Rollen: Mastodon wird größer, mehr Leute sind da, mehr Leute kennen es, mehr Leute empfehlen Mastodon, Mastodon wird größer und so weiter.
Mehr und mehr andere Serveranwendungen kommen ins Fediverse und verbinden sich mit Mastodon. Mastodon selbst ist aber so riesengroß, daß es innerhalb Mastodon geschätzte 99% allen Inhalts stellt. Inhalte von woanders sind auf Mastodon superselten.
Dazu kommt: Mastodon zeigt nicht an, woher Beiträge kommen. Mastodon zeigt bei Beiträgen von Misskey nicht an, daß die von Misskey kommen. Daher erfahren Mastodon-Nutzer auch nicht, daß die von Misskey kommen. Sie erfahren somit nicht, daß es Misskey gibt. Sie glauben, das sind Mastodon-Tröts.
Dazu kommt dann auch noch: Mastodon ist noch auf Version 3.x. Mastodon kann noch keine wie auch immer geartete Textformatierung darstellen. Das wird alles, aber auch wirklich alles von Mastodons HTML-"Sanitiser" rausgelöscht. Mastodon zeigt nur Klartext an. Das einzige, was Nicht-Mastodon-Beiträge von Mastodon-Tröts unterscheidet, ist, daß sie über 500 Zeichen lang sein können, daß Erwähnungen anders aussehen können (als wenn da einer drauf achtet), und daß Hashtags anders aussehen können (als wenn da einer drauf achtet).
Februar 2022. Elon Musk, längst ein durch und durch xenophober Faschist, kündigt an, Twitter aufzukaufen. Viele wollen weg, wissen aber nicht wohin. Millionen von ihnen werden eingeladen nach Mastodon. Ohne irgendeine Erwähnung von irgendeiner anderen Alternative. Weil die, die sie einladen, selbst auch nur Twitter und Mastodon kennen und nie von irgendeiner anderen Alternative gehört haben.
Februar/März 2022. Millionen von Twitter-Nutzern flüchten von Twitter nach Mastodon. Alle mit dem Wissensstand "es gibt nur Twitter und Mastodon" und "Fediverse = Mastodon". Das so schon nicht kleine Mastodon wächst auf ein Vielfaches seiner Größe. Sowohl die Anzahl als auch der relative Anteil derjenigen, die glauben, das Fediverse sei nur Mastodon, und es gäbe nur Twitter und Mastodon, steigt.
Die wenigen Pleroma-Nutzer scheinen die Situation zu verpennen.
Misskey wächst auch, aber nur in Ostasien und speziell in Japan, wo es den Stellenwert hat, den Mastodon in der westlichen Welt hat. Aufgrund von Zeitzonen- und Sprachbarrieren (und weil die meisten westlichen Fediverse-Server den Misskey-Leuchtturmserver misskey.io gesperrt haben) kommen aus Japan kaum bis keine Informationen über die Existenz von Misskey an westliche Mastodon-Nutzer. Nennenswerte Forkeys gibt es zu diesem Zeitpunkt in der westlichen Welt auch noch nicht.
Auf Friendica, Hubzilla und (streams) tut man auch nichts, weil das ein Twitter-Thema ist und man eher Richtung Facebook orientiert ist. Ein paar Friendica-Nutzer wären bereit gewesen, Leute von Facebook nach Friendica zu holen. Auf Hubzilla sorgte man sich eher darüber, wie tageslichttauglich Hubzilla gerade war, und die Community steckte allgemein in einer Lethargie. (streams) hatte zu diesem Zeitpunkt kaum Nutzer. Und überall schien man anzuzweifeln, daß man in der Lage ist, einen Riesenexodus von mehreren Millionen auf den existierenden Servern aufnehmen zu können.
Oktober 2022. Elon Musk kauft Twitter auf. Noch sehr viel mehr Leute wollen da weg, wissen aber nicht wohin. Sie werden nun nach Mastodon eingeladen von denen, die im Februar/März von Twitter nach Mastodon geflohen sind. Ihr Wissensstand ist immer noch derselbe: "Es gibt nur Twitter und Mastodon" und "Fediverse = Mastodon".
Pleroma? Misskey? Forkeys? Friendica? Hubzilla? (streams)? Siehe oben.
So, warum sind Friendica und Hubzilla nicht größer, obwohl sie älter sind?
Zunächst einmal: Mike Macgirvin hat bis 2023 angenommen, wenn er etwas baut, dann kommen die Leute schon von ganz alleine. Er ist kein Mensch der Öffentlichkeit. Er lebt mit seiner Frau, zwei Australian Shepherds und ein paar Hühnern auf einer Farm im australischen Outback, also in einer ziemlichen Einöde, wo man schon seine eigenen Nachbarn nicht sieht.
Mikes Hoffnung scheint auf dem Leidensdruck der Leute und ihrer Bereitschaft zum selbständigen Googlen zu beruhen. Mike glaubt, wenn die Leute mit Facebook nur unzufrieden genug sind, dann googlen sie von ganz alleine nach Alternativen, und dann werden sie seine Kreationen finden und als am besten erachten. Was er nicht auf dem Zettel hat: Niemand googlet nach dezentralen Facebook-Alternativen, wenn man nicht einmal eine vage Vorahnung hat, daß es sowas geben könnte. Oder daß es überhaupt Alternativen zu Facebook geben könnte. Social Networking = Facebook zur damaligen Zeit.
Jedenfalls:
März 2010. Facebook wird langsam so schlimm, daß Mike sich selbst daransetzt, eine freie, quelloffene, dezentrale, selbsthostbare und obendrein sehr mächtige Alternative zu entwickeln.
Mai 2010. Zum einen: Mike rollt die erste Vorabversion von Mistpark aus.
Zum anderen: Vier junge Apple-Fanbois in den USA finden Facebook auch schlimm. Auch sie wollen eine freie, quelloffene, dezentrale, selbsthostbare Alternative zu Facebook entwickeln. Zu diesem Zeitpunkt ist es noch zu früh, um Mistpark auf Google zu finden. Abgesehen davon rechnen auch die vier nicht damit, daß jemand so etwas schon mal gemacht haben könnte. Sonst hätten sie ja davon gehört, oder?
Jedenfalls: Die vier beschließen, ihren "Facebook-Killer" namens diaspora* über den Sommer 2010 zu entwickeln. Dafür brauchen sie aber Geld. $3.000 pro Nase, also $12.000 insgesamt. Sie starten eine Crowdfunding-Kampagne. Die geht komplett viral. Die Mainstream-Massenmedien picken auf, daß da vier Jungs etwas entwickeln wollen, was das immer schlimmer werdende Facebook ersetzen soll, und zwar, ohne die Nutzer auszuspionieren.
Binnen kürzester Zeit nehmen sie über $200.000 ein.
An dieser Stelle hätte Mike sich an die Massenmedien wenden können: Das, was die vier da vorhaben, das hat er schon fast fertig entwickelt. Ohne Crowdfunding. Tut er aber nicht. Er glaubt weiter an die Macht der Suchmaschinen in Kombination mit der Überlegenheit von Mistpark.
Juli 2010. Mike rollt den ersten stabilen Release von Mistpark aus. Die mächtigste föderierte Serversoftware, bis Mike es selbst entthronen wird. Wieder ohne jegliche Werbung, PR, Publicitiy oder was auch immer. Jetzt hätte Mike erst recht an die Tech- und Massenmedien gehen können und sagen können: "Hier, ich habe ganz alleine und für lau einen Facebook-Killer entwickelt, der sogar noch viel besser und mächtiger ist als Facebook!" Tut er aber nicht. Er glaubt weiter an die Macht der Suchmaschinen in Kombination mit der Überlegenheit von Mistpark.
Herbst 2010. Die erste superfrühe Alpha-Version von diaspora* wird ausgerollt. Im Grunde ist es eine ziemliche Enttäuschung. Es ist buggy, es läuft nur auf Mac-Servern, und es kann auch nicht sehr viel. Trotzdem wird es zumindest von genügend Hipstern angenommen, daß Google davon erfährt und diaspora* nach Strich und Faden für sein eigenes Google+ abkupfert und sogar das Aussehen von diaspora* zu Googles neuer Corporate Identity macht.
Auch etliche Tech-Geeks gehen nach diaspora*. Warum nicht nach Mistpark? Weil sie von Mistpark nichts wissen. Und weil sie angesichts der Sowieso-Verfügbarkeit von diaspora* kein Stück auf die Idee kommen zu googlen, ob's nicht noch was Besseres gibt.
Sogar auf diaspora* erfährt man erst allmählich von Mistpark, das inzwischen Friendika heißt, als es dessen Entwicklern gelungen ist, sich ohne jegliche API oder so mit diaspora* zu verbinden. Friendika wird auf diaspora* dadurch bekannt, daß a) es selbst dort vertreten ist und b) seine Nutzer zu diaspora*-Nutzern darüber reden. Ein paar ziehen tatsächlich um, weil ihnen diaspora* zu unterausgestattet ist. Das heißt, einige merken auch diese Unterausstattung erst, als sie Friendika ausprobieren.
Das geht so weiter. Auch als Tobias und Michael übernehmen, machen sie für Friendica kaum Werbung. Das heißt, es gibt einen Vortrag auf einem CCC. Aber der Vortrag ist nicht auf potentielle Nutzer ausgelegt, sondern auf Entwickler und Serveradmins.
Als Friendica sich mit Facebook verbindet, hofft man darauf, daß Friendica auf Facebook durch seine bloße Präsenz für sich werben kann. Klappt nicht.
April 2015. diaspora* ist weitestgehend wieder vergessen. Von Friendica weiß weiterhin keine Sau.
Nun wird das gerade erst aus der Red Matrix umgebaute Hubzilla erstmals vorgestellt. Es ist mächtiger als alles, was es bisher an dezentraler, föderierter Software gab. Aber weder Mike noch Mario noch Harald macht irgendwelche Werbung dafür. Wieder hofft man auf Suchmaschinen.
Die Communities von beiden machen auch nichts. Ihnen gehört das ja nicht, also ist Werbung nicht ihr Bier. Außerdem haben gerade die Friendica-Nutzer immer noch PTSD davon, daß Friendica-Nodes sogar auf dedizierten Servern oft nur ein paar hundert Leute aufnehmen können. Man könnte Leute allenfalls kleckerweise von Facebook holen, aber keine riesige Umsteigerlawine verkraften. Und auf Hubzilla redet man sich ein, daß Hubzilla ja eigentlich kein soziales Netzwerk ist, sondern ein "soziales CMS", aber trotzdem jetzt nicht so unbedingt direkt eine Facebook-Alternative, daß man jetzt unbedingt Leute von Facebook einladen müßte.
Das zieht sich bis heute so hin. Die erste zaghafte Werbung gibt es erst 2023. Und auch die gibt's nur im längst von Mastodon dominierten Fediverse. Und auch die hält sich zum einen nicht an Mastodons Regeln (zu lange Posts führen zu Mutes und Blocks, fehlende Hashtags führen zu Unauffindbarkeit, aber wer kann schon damit rechnen, daß man Hashtags braucht, wenn man doch selbst an Gruppen gewöhnt ist). Zum anderen spricht man nicht die Sprache der Mastodon-Nutzer, erklärt ihnen also nicht, daß Friendica/Hubzilla/(streams) im Fediverse und damit auch mit Mastodon verbunden ist. Selbst wenn man das täte, würde man mehr Mastodon-Nutzer verstören als anziehen.Und zum anderen: Was würde denn all die benannten Beteiligten davon abhalten, das zu tun genau jetzt? Warum passiert genau das noch nicht? Wäre doch, wenn alle das wollen, leicht möglich, oder? Abschauen, was Mastodon richtig gemacht hat nach außen, und das genau so gut oder besser machen? Welche Entschuldigung gibt es dann im Moment, das nicht zu tun?
Die "Entschuldigung" wäre, daß viele andere Fediverse-Anwendungen dann aufhören könnten.
Ich rede nicht von denen, die von vornherein ganz anders aufgestellt sind als Mastodon (PeerTube, Funkwhale, Owncast, Mobilizon, Flohmarkt, Ibex etc.).
Ich rede von denen, die im Prinzip auch das tun könnten, was Mastodon. Deren Alleinstellungsmerkmal aber ist, daß sie eben gerade anders sind als Mastodon und Dinge anders machen als Mastodon (Pleroma, Akkoma, Misskey, Sharkey, CherryPick, Iceshrimp-JS, Iceshrimp.NET, GoToSocial, Mitra, snac2, Socialhome, Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams), Forte etc.).
Wenn die alle total an Mastodon angepaßt werden, wenn die alle ganz genau wie Mastodon werden, wofür braucht es die dann noch? Warum sollte sie jemand benutzen? Was außer dem Namen unterscheidet sie dann noch von Mastodon?
Und vor allem: Glaubst du wirklich, die Entwickler werden ihre Babys zusammenschnippeln auf Mastodon-Format, nur um Frieden mit Mastodon zu haben? Und glaubst du auch, die Serveradmins werden auf diese zusammengeschnippelten neuen Versionen updaten?
Okay, nehmen wir mal Hubzilla als Beispiel, das ultimative Anti-Mastodon.
Nehmen wir mal an, morgen früh (um das Ganze möglichst schnell zu machen; du willst ja, daß das jetzt sofort augenblicklich passiert) rollen @Mario Vavti und @Harald Eilertsen Hubzilla 12.0 aus. Änderungen:- Die Mastodon Client API wird eingeführt. Der gesamte Funktionsumfang wird reduziert auf das, was die Mastodon Client API abdeckt. Hubzillas eigene Client API wird abgeschafft.
- ActivityPub ist jetzt das Basisprotokoll.
- Unterstützung für alle anderen Protokolle, inklusive Zot6 und diaspora*, aber auch der RSS- und Atom-Aggregator, fliegen raus.
- Es gibt keine mehreren Identitäten pro Konto mehr, weil Mastodon die nicht versteht. Jeder Kanal wird zu einem eigenständigen Konto mit denselben Credentials wie das Konto, zu dem er vorher gehörte.
- Das heißt, Forenkanäle werden gänzlich gelöscht, weil Mastodon keine Gruppen unterstützt.
- Es gibt keine nomadische Identität mehr, weil Mastodon das nicht hat und damit nicht umgehen kann. Klone werden zu eigenständigen Konten. Umziehen geht höchstens noch per Export und Import. Und auch die Formate sind an Mastodon angepaßt.
- Alle Profile außer dem öffentlichen werden gelöscht. Damit könnte Mastodon sowieso nicht umgehen.
- Beim öffentlichen Profil werden alle Profilfelder außer dem Profiltext gelöscht. Vier neue Mehrzweck-Profilfelder werden angelegt. Das ist das, was Mastodon versteht.
- Das Konzept bidirektionaler Kontakte wird ersetzt durch einseitiges Folgen und auch einseitiges Gefolgtwerden wie auf Twitter. Das ist das, was Mastodon versteht.
- Privacy-Gruppen werden umgewandelt in Listen, die nur noch haargenau die Features und die Handhabung von Mastodon-Listen haben.
- Es gibt keine verschiedenen Kanalrollen mehr, nur noch eine Art von Konto. Wie auf Mastodon. Wie gesagt, Forenkanäle werden nicht in Konten umgewandelt, sondern gänzlich gelöscht.
- Das komplette Berechtigungssystem wird ersatzlos gelöscht. Alle existierenden Berechtigungen (außer bei DMs) werden auf öffentlich gesetzt.
- Die kanalweite, jetzt kontoweite Filter-Blacklist wird umgewandelt in jeweils eine Filtereinstellung pro Zeile. Reine Schlüsselwörter werden normale Filter. Schlüsselwörter mit RegEx, die nur dazu dienen, daß die Wörter nur als Ganzes erkannt werden, werden umgewandelt in entsprechende Filter. Alle anderen Filterzeilen werden ersatzlos gelöscht.
- Die kanalweite, jetzt kontoweite Filter-Whitelist wird ersatzlos gelöscht, ebenso die individuellen Filter pro Kontakt.
- Überhaupt, alle Pro-Kontakt-Einstellungen werden gelöscht, weil Mastodon sowas nicht unterstützt und auch nicht damit rechnet.
- Die NSFW-Filterliste könnte auch entsprechend in Filterzeilen konvertiert werden, die Posts nicht löschen, sondern verstecken. Weil dieses Feature auf Mastodon aber nie Teil der Mastodon-Kultur geworden ist, die noch auf Mastodon 3.x basiert, wird die NSFW-Filterliste gänzlich und ersatzlos gelöscht.
- Die maximale Postlänge wird von 16.777.215 Zeichen auf 500 Zeichen reduziert. Längere Beiträge werden automatisch in Threads zerstückelt.
- Titel werden abgeschafft; existierende Titel werden gelöscht. Damit kann Mastodon eh nichts anfangen.
- Das Zusammenfassungsfeld wird in CW-Feld umbenannt, damit es aus Mastodon-Sicht nicht mehr falsch benutzt wird.
- Jegliche Form von Textformatierung und -gestaltung wird ersatzlos abgeschafft. Schon existierende Formatierungen werden entfernt.
- Eingebettete Bilder und mehr als vier Bilder pro Beitrag werden auch abgeschafft. Von den Bildern in Beiträgen werden die ersten vier in Dateianhänge umgewandelt und die übrigen gelöscht. Alt-Texte wandern in separate Text- und Datenbankfelder mit einem harten Limit von 1.500 Zeichen.
- Zitate werden abgeschafft. Auch die könnte Mastodon darstellen, aber nicht erzeugen, also gehören sie nicht nach Mastodon.
- Das Teilen von Beiträgen wird in "Zitieren" umbenannt und umgestellt auf dieselbe Art und Weise, die auch Mastodon anwendet. Oder gleich komplett abgeschafft, weil es Mastodon-Nutzer stören könnte.
- Das Wiederholen von Beiträgen wird in "Boosten" umbenannt. Oder gleich in "Retröten", weil das mehr Mastodon-Nutzer verstehen.
- Umfragen können nur noch vier Optionen haben, deren Namen auf 50 Zeichen beschränkt sind, und das Wählen mehrerer Optionen geht nicht mehr.
- Jegliche Unterstützung geschlossener Konversationen wird abgeschafft zugunsten eines losen Threadmodells wie auf Twitter. Das ist das, was Mastodon versteht. Die Unterstützung für FEP-171b "Conversation Containers" wird komplett und ersatzlos gestrichen. Das ganze FEP wird gelöscht.
- Posts heißen jetzt Tröts.
- Kommentare heißen jetzt auch Tröts.
- Der Zähler für ungelesene Beiträge wird abgeschafft.
- Die HQ-Seite wird abgeschafft. Die Kanalseite wird abgeschafft. Es gibt nur noch den Network-Stream. Der wird darauf hartgecodet, nur noch Einzelbeiträge zu zeigen und keine ganzen Konversationen mehr. Das soll verhindern, daß Hubzilla-Nutzer immer noch Hubzilla irgendwie anders nutzen, als Mastodon-Nutzer Mastodon nutzen.
- Der Filespace wird abgeschafft. WebDAV sowieso. Dateien werden so gehandhabt wie auf Mastodon.
- Der Eventkalender wird abgeschafft, weil Mastodon eh keine Events kann.
- Der CalDAV-Kalenderserver wird abgeschafft.
- Der CardDAV-Adreßbuchserver wird abgeschafft.
- Artikel werden abgeschafft. Irritieren Mastodon-Nutzer nur.
- Planungskarten werden abgeschafft. Irritieren Mastodon-Nutzer nur.
- Wikis werden abgeschafft. Irritieren Mastodon-Nutzer nur.
- Webpages werden abgeschafft. Hubzilla wird eine neue offizielle Website brauchen.
- Kanalquellen werden abgeschafft. Auf Mastodon kann man ja auch nicht mit Bordmitteln Bots bauen, außerdem sind Bots böse.
- Der PDL-Editor wird abgeschafft. Die Unterstützung von Themes wird abgeschafft. Hubzillas Oberfläche wird hartgecodet. Entweder sieht es jetzt wie Mastodon oder wie Twitter aus. Egal, ob es eigentlich aus einer Facebook-Alternative hervorgegangen ist. Aber die primäre Facebook-Alternative im Fediverse ist jetzt auch Mastodon.
- Alle anderen optionalen Apps werden auch abgeschafft. Hubzilla ist nicht mehr modular.
So, jetzt frage ich dich: Glaubst du, Mario und Harald machen das wirklich?
Glaubst du wirklich, sie kastrieren Hubzilla tatsächlich freiwillig um locker 90% seiner Features, nur um sich Mastodon anzubiedern? Die beiden, die sich bis jetzt von Gargron überhaupt gar nichts haben sagen lassen?
Und glaubst du allen Ernstes, Hub-Admins wie @Der Pepe (Hubzilla) ⁂, @Mark Nowiasz oder @Steffen gehen wirklich dabei und stellen ihre Hubs auf das so zusammengestrichene Hubzilla 12.0 um, das sich außer im Namen praktisch nicht mehr von Mastodon unterscheidet? Für einen Diktatfrieden mit dem eigentlich konzeptionell völlig anderen und bis dahin featuremäßig hoffnungslos unterlegenen Mastodon?
Und warum glaubst du, daß genau diese Personen genau das auch tatsächlich tun werden? Auch ich hätte dafür gerne eine ehrliche Antwort.
Wohlgemerkt, @Steffen 🦉🇪🇺 hat erst vor kurzem einen Mastodon-Server abgeschaltet und setzt jetzt nur noch auf Friendica und Hubzilla. Und du glaubst allen Ernstes, er läßt zu, daß beide durch neue Versionen der Serversoftware zu Mastodon-Klonen reduziert werden?
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #diaspora* #Mistpark #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Mastoverse #MastodonFediverse -
@Kristian
Zum einen: Warum hat Mastodon als deutlich jüngeres Projekt deutlich mehr Nutzer für sich gewinnen können als die Projekte, die schon länger am Start sind? Was ist denen gelungen, was alle anderen nicht geschafft haben?
Halb Zufall, halb Publicity.
2016. Mastodon ist raus. Anscheinend redet Gargron online viel darüber. Jedenfalls mehr als die hinter Pleroma, Friendica und Hubzilla. Und das ebenfalls zentralistische und nicht mehr mit dem Fediverse verbundene Identi.ca ist eh nicht in den Händen von jemandem, der Deutsch kann, und auch Evan Prodromou redet nicht groß drüber, jedenfalls nicht mit Leuten, die ihm über Mainstream-Medien Publicity verschaffen könnten.
Ein deutsches Mainstream-Medium wird drauf aufmerksam und interviewt ihn und macht eine Story über ihn und Mastodon. Viele Leute lesen darüber, daß es an Microblogging nicht nur Twitter gibt. Twitter ist damals schon nicht unumstritten, aber allgemein wird bisher angenommen, daß es keinen Alternative dazu gibt. Identi.ca kennt keiner, GNU social kennt keiner, Pleroma kennt keiner, Friendica kennt keiner, Hubzilla kennt keiner. Aber von Mastodon lesen sie jetzt. Schon kommen neue Nutzer, die weiter microbloggen wollen, aber von Twitter wegwollen, nach Mastodon.
2017. Auf Twitter werden Furries, Manga-/Anime-Fans und queere Personen von rechten Störenfrieden angegriffen. Irgendjemand entweder unter ihnen oder unter den Leuten, die sie kennen, kennt Mastodon und sagt, da können sie doch hingehen. Es findet ein großer Exodus dieser Personengruppen von Twitter nach Mastodon statt. Mastodon wächst weiter. Wieder kennt niemand Identi.ca, GNU social, Pleroma, Friendica oder Hubzilla. Daher gehen ausnahmslos alle nach Mastodon, und nur Mastodon profitiert davon.
In den nächsten Jahren gibt es weitere solche Vorfälle auf Twitter. Wieder ist Mastodon die einzige bekannte Alternative (Grund: siehe 2016 und 2017). Wieder geht der Exodus nur nach Mastodon.
Ein Schneeball kommt ins Rollen: Mastodon wird größer, mehr Leute sind da, mehr Leute kennen es, mehr Leute empfehlen Mastodon, Mastodon wird größer und so weiter.
Mehr und mehr andere Serveranwendungen kommen ins Fediverse und verbinden sich mit Mastodon. Mastodon selbst ist aber so riesengroß, daß es innerhalb Mastodon geschätzte 99% allen Inhalts stellt. Inhalte von woanders sind auf Mastodon superselten.
Dazu kommt: Mastodon zeigt nicht an, woher Beiträge kommen. Mastodon zeigt bei Beiträgen von Misskey nicht an, daß die von Misskey kommen. Daher erfahren Mastodon-Nutzer auch nicht, daß die von Misskey kommen. Sie erfahren somit nicht, daß es Misskey gibt. Sie glauben, das sind Mastodon-Tröts.
Dazu kommt dann auch noch: Mastodon ist noch auf Version 3.x. Mastodon kann noch keine wie auch immer geartete Textformatierung darstellen. Das wird alles, aber auch wirklich alles von Mastodons HTML-"Sanitiser" rausgelöscht. Mastodon zeigt nur Klartext an. Das einzige, was Nicht-Mastodon-Beiträge von Mastodon-Tröts unterscheidet, ist, daß sie über 500 Zeichen lang sein können, daß Erwähnungen anders aussehen können (als wenn da einer drauf achtet), und daß Hashtags anders aussehen können (als wenn da einer drauf achtet).
Februar 2022. Elon Musk, längst ein durch und durch xenophober Faschist, kündigt an, Twitter aufzukaufen. Viele wollen weg, wissen aber nicht wohin. Millionen von ihnen werden eingeladen nach Mastodon. Ohne irgendeine Erwähnung von irgendeiner anderen Alternative. Weil die, die sie einladen, selbst auch nur Twitter und Mastodon kennen und nie von irgendeiner anderen Alternative gehört haben.
Februar/März 2022. Millionen von Twitter-Nutzern flüchten von Twitter nach Mastodon. Alle mit dem Wissensstand "es gibt nur Twitter und Mastodon" und "Fediverse = Mastodon". Das so schon nicht kleine Mastodon wächst auf ein Vielfaches seiner Größe. Sowohl die Anzahl als auch der relative Anteil derjenigen, die glauben, das Fediverse sei nur Mastodon, und es gäbe nur Twitter und Mastodon, steigt.
Die wenigen Pleroma-Nutzer scheinen die Situation zu verpennen.
Misskey wächst auch, aber nur in Ostasien und speziell in Japan, wo es den Stellenwert hat, den Mastodon in der westlichen Welt hat. Aufgrund von Zeitzonen- und Sprachbarrieren (und weil die meisten westlichen Fediverse-Server den Misskey-Leuchtturmserver misskey.io gesperrt haben) kommen aus Japan kaum bis keine Informationen über die Existenz von Misskey an westliche Mastodon-Nutzer. Nennenswerte Forkeys gibt es zu diesem Zeitpunkt in der westlichen Welt auch noch nicht.
Auf Friendica, Hubzilla und (streams) tut man auch nichts, weil das ein Twitter-Thema ist und man eher Richtung Facebook orientiert ist. Ein paar Friendica-Nutzer wären bereit gewesen, Leute von Facebook nach Friendica zu holen. Auf Hubzilla sorgte man sich eher darüber, wie tageslichttauglich Hubzilla gerade war, und die Community steckte allgemein in einer Lethargie. (streams) hatte zu diesem Zeitpunkt kaum Nutzer. Und überall schien man anzuzweifeln, daß man in der Lage ist, einen Riesenexodus von mehreren Millionen auf den existierenden Servern aufnehmen zu können.
Oktober 2022. Elon Musk kauft Twitter auf. Noch sehr viel mehr Leute wollen da weg, wissen aber nicht wohin. Sie werden nun nach Mastodon eingeladen von denen, die im Februar/März von Twitter nach Mastodon geflohen sind. Ihr Wissensstand ist immer noch derselbe: "Es gibt nur Twitter und Mastodon" und "Fediverse = Mastodon".
Pleroma? Misskey? Forkeys? Friendica? Hubzilla? (streams)? Siehe oben.
So, warum sind Friendica und Hubzilla nicht größer, obwohl sie älter sind?
Zunächst einmal: Mike Macgirvin hat bis 2023 angenommen, wenn er etwas baut, dann kommen die Leute schon von ganz alleine. Er ist kein Mensch der Öffentlichkeit. Er lebt mit seiner Frau, zwei Australian Shepherds und ein paar Hühnern auf einer Farm im australischen Outback, also in einer ziemlichen Einöde, wo man schon seine eigenen Nachbarn nicht sieht.
Mikes Hoffnung scheint auf dem Leidensdruck der Leute und ihrer Bereitschaft zum selbständigen Googlen zu beruhen. Mike glaubt, wenn die Leute mit Facebook nur unzufrieden genug sind, dann googlen sie von ganz alleine nach Alternativen, und dann werden sie seine Kreationen finden und als am besten erachten. Was er nicht auf dem Zettel hat: Niemand googlet nach dezentralen Facebook-Alternativen, wenn man nicht einmal eine vage Vorahnung hat, daß es sowas geben könnte. Oder daß es überhaupt Alternativen zu Facebook geben könnte. Social Networking = Facebook zur damaligen Zeit.
Jedenfalls:
März 2010. Facebook wird langsam so schlimm, daß Mike sich selbst daransetzt, eine freie, quelloffene, dezentrale, selbsthostbare und obendrein sehr mächtige Alternative zu entwickeln.
Mai 2010. Zum einen: Mike rollt die erste Vorabversion von Mistpark aus.
Zum anderen: Vier junge Apple-Fanbois in den USA finden Facebook auch schlimm. Auch sie wollen eine freie, quelloffene, dezentrale, selbsthostbare Alternative zu Facebook entwickeln. Zu diesem Zeitpunkt ist es noch zu früh, um Mistpark auf Google zu finden. Abgesehen davon rechnen auch die vier nicht damit, daß jemand so etwas schon mal gemacht haben könnte. Sonst hätten sie ja davon gehört, oder?
Jedenfalls: Die vier beschließen, ihren "Facebook-Killer" namens diaspora* über den Sommer 2010 zu entwickeln. Dafür brauchen sie aber Geld. $3.000 pro Nase, also $12.000 insgesamt. Sie starten eine Crowdfunding-Kampagne. Die geht komplett viral. Die Mainstream-Massenmedien picken auf, daß da vier Jungs etwas entwickeln wollen, was das immer schlimmer werdende Facebook ersetzen soll, und zwar, ohne die Nutzer auszuspionieren.
Binnen kürzester Zeit nehmen sie über $200.000 ein.
An dieser Stelle hätte Mike sich an die Massenmedien wenden können: Das, was die vier da vorhaben, das hat er schon fast fertig entwickelt. Ohne Crowdfunding. Tut er aber nicht. Er glaubt weiter an die Macht der Suchmaschinen in Kombination mit der Überlegenheit von Mistpark.
Juli 2010. Mike rollt den ersten stabilen Release von Mistpark aus. Die mächtigste föderierte Serversoftware, bis Mike es selbst entthronen wird. Wieder ohne jegliche Werbung, PR, Publicitiy oder was auch immer. Jetzt hätte Mike erst recht an die Tech- und Massenmedien gehen können und sagen können: "Hier, ich habe ganz alleine und für lau einen Facebook-Killer entwickelt, der sogar noch viel besser und mächtiger ist als Facebook!" Tut er aber nicht. Er glaubt weiter an die Macht der Suchmaschinen in Kombination mit der Überlegenheit von Mistpark.
Herbst 2010. Die erste superfrühe Alpha-Version von diaspora* wird ausgerollt. Im Grunde ist es eine ziemliche Enttäuschung. Es ist buggy, es läuft nur auf Mac-Servern, und es kann auch nicht sehr viel. Trotzdem wird es zumindest von genügend Hipstern angenommen, daß Google davon erfährt und diaspora* nach Strich und Faden für sein eigenes Google+ abkupfert und sogar das Aussehen von diaspora* zu Googles neuer Corporate Identity macht.
Auch etliche Tech-Geeks gehen nach diaspora*. Warum nicht nach Mistpark? Weil sie von Mistpark nichts wissen. Und weil sie angesichts der Sowieso-Verfügbarkeit von diaspora* kein Stück auf die Idee kommen zu googlen, ob's nicht noch was Besseres gibt.
Sogar auf diaspora* erfährt man erst allmählich von Mistpark, das inzwischen Friendika heißt, als es dessen Entwicklern gelungen ist, sich ohne jegliche API oder so mit diaspora* zu verbinden. Friendika wird auf diaspora* dadurch bekannt, daß a) es selbst dort vertreten ist und b) seine Nutzer zu diaspora*-Nutzern darüber reden. Ein paar ziehen tatsächlich um, weil ihnen diaspora* zu unterausgestattet ist. Das heißt, einige merken auch diese Unterausstattung erst, als sie Friendika ausprobieren.
Das geht so weiter. Auch als Tobias und Michael übernehmen, machen sie für Friendica kaum Werbung. Das heißt, es gibt einen Vortrag auf einem CCC. Aber der Vortrag ist nicht auf potentielle Nutzer ausgelegt, sondern auf Entwickler und Serveradmins.
Als Friendica sich mit Facebook verbindet, hofft man darauf, daß Friendica auf Facebook durch seine bloße Präsenz für sich werben kann. Klappt nicht.
April 2015. diaspora* ist weitestgehend wieder vergessen. Von Friendica weiß weiterhin keine Sau.
Nun wird das gerade erst aus der Red Matrix umgebaute Hubzilla erstmals vorgestellt. Es ist mächtiger als alles, was es bisher an dezentraler, föderierter Software gab. Aber weder Mike noch Mario noch Harald macht irgendwelche Werbung dafür. Wieder hofft man auf Suchmaschinen.
Die Communities von beiden machen auch nichts. Ihnen gehört das ja nicht, also ist Werbung nicht ihr Bier. Außerdem haben gerade die Friendica-Nutzer immer noch PTSD davon, daß Friendica-Nodes sogar auf dedizierten Servern oft nur ein paar hundert Leute aufnehmen können. Man könnte Leute allenfalls kleckerweise von Facebook holen, aber keine riesige Umsteigerlawine verkraften. Und auf Hubzilla redet man sich ein, daß Hubzilla ja eigentlich kein soziales Netzwerk ist, sondern ein "soziales CMS", aber trotzdem jetzt nicht so unbedingt direkt eine Facebook-Alternative, daß man jetzt unbedingt Leute von Facebook einladen müßte.
Das zieht sich bis heute so hin. Die erste zaghafte Werbung gibt es erst 2023. Und auch die gibt's nur im längst von Mastodon dominierten Fediverse. Und auch die hält sich zum einen nicht an Mastodons Regeln (zu lange Posts führen zu Mutes und Blocks, fehlende Hashtags führen zu Unauffindbarkeit, aber wer kann schon damit rechnen, daß man Hashtags braucht, wenn man doch selbst an Gruppen gewöhnt ist). Zum anderen spricht man nicht die Sprache der Mastodon-Nutzer, erklärt ihnen also nicht, daß Friendica/Hubzilla/(streams) im Fediverse und damit auch mit Mastodon verbunden ist. Selbst wenn man das täte, würde man mehr Mastodon-Nutzer verstören als anziehen.Und zum anderen: Was würde denn all die benannten Beteiligten davon abhalten, das zu tun genau jetzt? Warum passiert genau das noch nicht? Wäre doch, wenn alle das wollen, leicht möglich, oder? Abschauen, was Mastodon richtig gemacht hat nach außen, und das genau so gut oder besser machen? Welche Entschuldigung gibt es dann im Moment, das nicht zu tun?
Die "Entschuldigung" wäre, daß viele andere Fediverse-Anwendungen dann aufhören könnten.
Ich rede nicht von denen, die von vornherein ganz anders aufgestellt sind als Mastodon (PeerTube, Funkwhale, Owncast, Mobilizon, Flohmarkt, Ibex etc.).
Ich rede von denen, die im Prinzip auch das tun könnten, was Mastodon. Deren Alleinstellungsmerkmal aber ist, daß sie eben gerade anders sind als Mastodon und Dinge anders machen als Mastodon (Pleroma, Akkoma, Misskey, Sharkey, CherryPick, Iceshrimp-JS, Iceshrimp.NET, GoToSocial, Mitra, snac2, Socialhome, Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams), Forte etc.).
Wenn die alle total an Mastodon angepaßt werden, wenn die alle ganz genau wie Mastodon werden, wofür braucht es die dann noch? Warum sollte sie jemand benutzen? Was außer dem Namen unterscheidet sie dann noch von Mastodon?
Und vor allem: Glaubst du wirklich, die Entwickler werden ihre Babys zusammenschnippeln auf Mastodon-Format, nur um Frieden mit Mastodon zu haben? Und glaubst du auch, die Serveradmins werden auf diese zusammengeschnippelten neuen Versionen updaten?
Okay, nehmen wir mal Hubzilla als Beispiel, das ultimative Anti-Mastodon.
Nehmen wir mal an, morgen früh (um das Ganze möglichst schnell zu machen; du willst ja, daß das jetzt sofort augenblicklich passiert) rollen @Mario Vavti und @Harald Eilertsen Hubzilla 12.0 aus. Änderungen:- Die Mastodon Client API wird eingeführt. Der gesamte Funktionsumfang wird reduziert auf das, was die Mastodon Client API abdeckt. Hubzillas eigene Client API wird abgeschafft.
- ActivityPub ist jetzt das Basisprotokoll.
- Unterstützung für alle anderen Protokolle, inklusive Zot6 und diaspora*, aber auch der RSS- und Atom-Aggregator, fliegen raus.
- Es gibt keine mehreren Identitäten pro Konto mehr, weil Mastodon die nicht versteht. Jeder Kanal wird zu einem eigenständigen Konto mit denselben Credentials wie das Konto, zu dem er vorher gehörte.
- Das heißt, Forenkanäle werden gänzlich gelöscht, weil Mastodon keine Gruppen unterstützt.
- Es gibt keine nomadische Identität mehr, weil Mastodon das nicht hat und damit nicht umgehen kann. Klone werden zu eigenständigen Konten. Umziehen geht höchstens noch per Export und Import. Und auch die Formate sind an Mastodon angepaßt.
- Alle Profile außer dem öffentlichen werden gelöscht. Damit könnte Mastodon sowieso nicht umgehen.
- Beim öffentlichen Profil werden alle Profilfelder außer dem Profiltext gelöscht. Vier neue Mehrzweck-Profilfelder werden angelegt. Das ist das, was Mastodon versteht.
- Das Konzept bidirektionaler Kontakte wird ersetzt durch einseitiges Folgen und auch einseitiges Gefolgtwerden wie auf Twitter. Das ist das, was Mastodon versteht.
- Privacy-Gruppen werden umgewandelt in Listen, die nur noch haargenau die Features und die Handhabung von Mastodon-Listen haben.
- Es gibt keine verschiedenen Kanalrollen mehr, nur noch eine Art von Konto. Wie auf Mastodon. Wie gesagt, Forenkanäle werden nicht in Konten umgewandelt, sondern gänzlich gelöscht.
- Das komplette Berechtigungssystem wird ersatzlos gelöscht. Alle existierenden Berechtigungen (außer bei DMs) werden auf öffentlich gesetzt.
- Die kanalweite, jetzt kontoweite Filter-Blacklist wird umgewandelt in jeweils eine Filtereinstellung pro Zeile. Reine Schlüsselwörter werden normale Filter. Schlüsselwörter mit RegEx, die nur dazu dienen, daß die Wörter nur als Ganzes erkannt werden, werden umgewandelt in entsprechende Filter. Alle anderen Filterzeilen werden ersatzlos gelöscht.
- Die kanalweite, jetzt kontoweite Filter-Whitelist wird ersatzlos gelöscht, ebenso die individuellen Filter pro Kontakt.
- Überhaupt, alle Pro-Kontakt-Einstellungen werden gelöscht, weil Mastodon sowas nicht unterstützt und auch nicht damit rechnet.
- Die NSFW-Filterliste könnte auch entsprechend in Filterzeilen konvertiert werden, die Posts nicht löschen, sondern verstecken. Weil dieses Feature auf Mastodon aber nie Teil der Mastodon-Kultur geworden ist, die noch auf Mastodon 3.x basiert, wird die NSFW-Filterliste gänzlich und ersatzlos gelöscht.
- Die maximale Postlänge wird von 16.777.215 Zeichen auf 500 Zeichen reduziert. Längere Beiträge werden automatisch in Threads zerstückelt.
- Titel werden abgeschafft; existierende Titel werden gelöscht. Damit kann Mastodon eh nichts anfangen.
- Das Zusammenfassungsfeld wird in CW-Feld umbenannt, damit es aus Mastodon-Sicht nicht mehr falsch benutzt wird.
- Jegliche Form von Textformatierung und -gestaltung wird ersatzlos abgeschafft. Schon existierende Formatierungen werden entfernt.
- Eingebettete Bilder und mehr als vier Bilder pro Beitrag werden auch abgeschafft. Von den Bildern in Beiträgen werden die ersten vier in Dateianhänge umgewandelt und die übrigen gelöscht. Alt-Texte wandern in separate Text- und Datenbankfelder mit einem harten Limit von 1.500 Zeichen.
- Zitate werden abgeschafft. Auch die könnte Mastodon darstellen, aber nicht erzeugen, also gehören sie nicht nach Mastodon.
- Das Teilen von Beiträgen wird in "Zitieren" umbenannt und umgestellt auf dieselbe Art und Weise, die auch Mastodon anwendet. Oder gleich komplett abgeschafft, weil es Mastodon-Nutzer stören könnte.
- Das Wiederholen von Beiträgen wird in "Boosten" umbenannt. Oder gleich in "Retröten", weil das mehr Mastodon-Nutzer verstehen.
- Umfragen können nur noch vier Optionen haben, deren Namen auf 50 Zeichen beschränkt sind, und das Wählen mehrerer Optionen geht nicht mehr.
- Jegliche Unterstützung geschlossener Konversationen wird abgeschafft zugunsten eines losen Threadmodells wie auf Twitter. Das ist das, was Mastodon versteht. Die Unterstützung für FEP-171b "Conversation Containers" wird komplett und ersatzlos gestrichen. Das ganze FEP wird gelöscht.
- Posts heißen jetzt Tröts.
- Kommentare heißen jetzt auch Tröts.
- Der Zähler für ungelesene Beiträge wird abgeschafft.
- Die HQ-Seite wird abgeschafft. Die Kanalseite wird abgeschafft. Es gibt nur noch den Network-Stream. Der wird darauf hartgecodet, nur noch Einzelbeiträge zu zeigen und keine ganzen Konversationen mehr. Das soll verhindern, daß Hubzilla-Nutzer immer noch Hubzilla irgendwie anders nutzen, als Mastodon-Nutzer Mastodon nutzen.
- Der Filespace wird abgeschafft. WebDAV sowieso. Dateien werden so gehandhabt wie auf Mastodon.
- Der Eventkalender wird abgeschafft, weil Mastodon eh keine Events kann.
- Der CalDAV-Kalenderserver wird abgeschafft.
- Der CardDAV-Adreßbuchserver wird abgeschafft.
- Artikel werden abgeschafft. Irritieren Mastodon-Nutzer nur.
- Planungskarten werden abgeschafft. Irritieren Mastodon-Nutzer nur.
- Wikis werden abgeschafft. Irritieren Mastodon-Nutzer nur.
- Webpages werden abgeschafft. Hubzilla wird eine neue offizielle Website brauchen.
- Kanalquellen werden abgeschafft. Auf Mastodon kann man ja auch nicht mit Bordmitteln Bots bauen, außerdem sind Bots böse.
- Der PDL-Editor wird abgeschafft. Die Unterstützung von Themes wird abgeschafft. Hubzillas Oberfläche wird hartgecodet. Entweder sieht es jetzt wie Mastodon oder wie Twitter aus. Egal, ob es eigentlich aus einer Facebook-Alternative hervorgegangen ist. Aber die primäre Facebook-Alternative im Fediverse ist jetzt auch Mastodon.
- Alle anderen optionalen Apps werden auch abgeschafft. Hubzilla ist nicht mehr modular.
So, jetzt frage ich dich: Glaubst du, Mario und Harald machen das wirklich?
Glaubst du wirklich, sie kastrieren Hubzilla tatsächlich freiwillig um locker 90% seiner Features, nur um sich Mastodon anzubiedern? Die beiden, die sich bis jetzt von Gargron überhaupt gar nichts haben sagen lassen?
Und glaubst du allen Ernstes, Hub-Admins wie @Der Pepe (Hubzilla) ⁂, @Mark Nowiasz oder @Steffen gehen wirklich dabei und stellen ihre Hubs auf das so zusammengestrichene Hubzilla 12.0 um, das sich außer im Namen praktisch nicht mehr von Mastodon unterscheidet? Für einen Diktatfrieden mit dem eigentlich konzeptionell völlig anderen und bis dahin featuremäßig hoffnungslos unterlegenen Mastodon?
Und warum glaubst du, daß genau diese Personen genau das auch tatsächlich tun werden? Auch ich hätte dafür gerne eine ehrliche Antwort.
Wohlgemerkt, @Steffen 🦉🇪🇺 hat erst vor kurzem einen Mastodon-Server abgeschaltet und setzt jetzt nur noch auf Friendica und Hubzilla. Und du glaubst allen Ernstes, er läßt zu, daß beide durch neue Versionen der Serversoftware zu Mastodon-Klonen reduziert werden?
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #diaspora* #Mistpark #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Mastoverse #MastodonFediverse -
@Kristian Ich meine, das Fediverse kann sich auch an Mastodon anpassen. Alles nach Mastodons Vorgaben machen. Aufhören, ActivityPub by the book zu implementieren. Aufhören zu versuchen, ActivityPub zu verbessern. Statt dessen einfach Mastodon implementieren.
Dann hätten wir Frieden.
Dann würde aber alles nach Gargrons Pfeife tanzen.
Dann könnten wir vor allem tatsächliche Fortschritte im Fediverse vergessen.
Dann könnten wir nomadische Identität in die Tonne kloppen.
Dann könnten wir mehrere Identitäten pro Konto in die Tonne kloppen.
Dann könnten wir mehrere Profile pro Identität in die Tonne kloppen.
Dann könnten wir alle Profilfelder in die Tonne kloppen, die Mastodon nicht hat.
Dann könnten wir Berechtigungen in die Tonne kloppen.
Dann könnten wir Antwortenkontrolle in die Tonne kloppen.
Dann könnten wir vernünftige Listen in die Tonne kloppen.
Dann könnten wir Zitate in die Tonne kloppen. (Nicht Drükos, sondern Zitate wie in Internetforen.)
Dann könnten wir Emoji-Reaktionen in die Tonne kloppen.
Dann könnten wir ordentliche Darstellung langer bzw. formatierter Inhalte in die Tonne kloppen.
Dann könnten wir mehr als 4 Bilder in normalen Posts in die Tonne kloppen.
Dann könnten wir in normale Posts eingebettete Bilder in die Tonne kloppen.
Alles, weil Gargron das auf Mastodon nicht will. Und was Gargron auf Mastodon nicht will, das hat gefälligst auch sonst keiner zu implementieren, weil das nur Unfrieden stiftet.
Wir hätten Frieden.
Aber das wäre ein Diktatfrieden. Das Fediverse wäre wirklich nur noch Mastodon. Und Gargron hätte gewonnen. Sein Mastodon wäre der Alleinherrscher über das Fediverse. Und sein großer Nemesis, Mike Macgirvin, wäre vernichtend geschlagen.
Aber wir hätten Frieden.
Und die einzigen, die sich an der Situation nicht stören, sind die, die was anderes als Mastodon nicht kennen, und die, die was anderes als Mastodon nicht wollen.
Ganz ehrlich: So ein Fediverse will ich nicht. Ich weiß schon ganz genau, warum ich nicht auf Mastodon bin. Und ich lasse mir mein Hubzilla nicht zu einem weiteren Mastodon zusammenstreichen nur um des lieben Friedens willen.
Und eins kannst du mir glauben: Mike Macgirvin wird da nicht mitziehen. Mario Vavti und Harald Eilertsen auch nicht. Eher schmeißen sie wohl ActivityPub ganz raus und setzen nur noch auf Zot bzw. Nomad.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #NichtNurMastodon #Mastoverse #MastodonFediverse -
@Kristian Ich meine, das Fediverse kann sich auch an Mastodon anpassen. Alles nach Mastodons Vorgaben machen. Aufhören, ActivityPub by the book zu implementieren. Aufhören zu versuchen, ActivityPub zu verbessern. Statt dessen einfach Mastodon implementieren.
Dann hätten wir Frieden.
Dann würde aber alles nach Gargrons Pfeife tanzen.
Dann könnten wir vor allem tatsächliche Fortschritte im Fediverse vergessen.
Dann könnten wir nomadische Identität in die Tonne kloppen.
Dann könnten wir mehrere Identitäten pro Konto in die Tonne kloppen.
Dann könnten wir mehrere Profile pro Identität in die Tonne kloppen.
Dann könnten wir alle Profilfelder in die Tonne kloppen, die Mastodon nicht hat.
Dann könnten wir Berechtigungen in die Tonne kloppen.
Dann könnten wir Antwortenkontrolle in die Tonne kloppen.
Dann könnten wir vernünftige Listen in die Tonne kloppen.
Dann könnten wir Zitate in die Tonne kloppen. (Nicht Drükos, sondern Zitate wie in Internetforen.)
Dann könnten wir Emoji-Reaktionen in die Tonne kloppen.
Dann könnten wir ordentliche Darstellung langer bzw. formatierter Inhalte in die Tonne kloppen.
Dann könnten wir mehr als 4 Bilder in normalen Posts in die Tonne kloppen.
Dann könnten wir in normale Posts eingebettete Bilder in die Tonne kloppen.
Alles, weil Gargron das auf Mastodon nicht will. Und was Gargron auf Mastodon nicht will, das hat gefälligst auch sonst keiner zu implementieren, weil das nur Unfrieden stiftet.
Wir hätten Frieden.
Aber das wäre ein Diktatfrieden. Das Fediverse wäre wirklich nur noch Mastodon. Und Gargron hätte gewonnen. Sein Mastodon wäre der Alleinherrscher über das Fediverse. Und sein großer Nemesis, Mike Macgirvin, wäre vernichtend geschlagen.
Aber wir hätten Frieden.
Und die einzigen, die sich an der Situation nicht stören, sind die, die was anderes als Mastodon nicht kennen, und die, die was anderes als Mastodon nicht wollen.
Ganz ehrlich: So ein Fediverse will ich nicht. Ich weiß schon ganz genau, warum ich nicht auf Mastodon bin. Und ich lasse mir mein Hubzilla nicht zu einem weiteren Mastodon zusammenstreichen nur um des lieben Friedens willen.
Und eins kannst du mir glauben: Mike Macgirvin wird da nicht mitziehen. Mario Vavti und Harald Eilertsen auch nicht. Eher schmeißen sie wohl ActivityPub ganz raus und setzen nur noch auf Zot bzw. Nomad.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #NichtNurMastodon #Mastoverse #MastodonFediverse -
@Kristian Ich meine, das Fediverse kann sich auch an Mastodon anpassen. Alles nach Mastodons Vorgaben machen. Aufhören, ActivityPub by the book zu implementieren. Aufhören zu versuchen, ActivityPub zu verbessern. Statt dessen einfach Mastodon implementieren.
Dann hätten wir Frieden.
Dann würde aber alles nach Gargrons Pfeife tanzen.
Dann könnten wir vor allem tatsächliche Fortschritte im Fediverse vergessen.
Dann könnten wir nomadische Identität in die Tonne kloppen.
Dann könnten wir mehrere Identitäten pro Konto in die Tonne kloppen.
Dann könnten wir mehrere Profile pro Identität in die Tonne kloppen.
Dann könnten wir alle Profilfelder in die Tonne kloppen, die Mastodon nicht hat.
Dann könnten wir Berechtigungen in die Tonne kloppen.
Dann könnten wir Antwortenkontrolle in die Tonne kloppen.
Dann könnten wir vernünftige Listen in die Tonne kloppen.
Dann könnten wir Zitate in die Tonne kloppen. (Nicht Drükos, sondern Zitate wie in Internetforen.)
Dann könnten wir Emoji-Reaktionen in die Tonne kloppen.
Dann könnten wir ordentliche Darstellung langer bzw. formatierter Inhalte in die Tonne kloppen.
Dann könnten wir mehr als 4 Bilder in normalen Posts in die Tonne kloppen.
Dann könnten wir in normale Posts eingebettete Bilder in die Tonne kloppen.
Alles, weil Gargron das auf Mastodon nicht will. Und was Gargron auf Mastodon nicht will, das hat gefälligst auch sonst keiner zu implementieren, weil das nur Unfrieden stiftet.
Wir hätten Frieden.
Aber das wäre ein Diktatfrieden. Das Fediverse wäre wirklich nur noch Mastodon. Und Gargron hätte gewonnen. Sein Mastodon wäre der Alleinherrscher über das Fediverse. Und sein großer Nemesis, Mike Macgirvin, wäre vernichtend geschlagen.
Aber wir hätten Frieden.
Und die einzigen, die sich an der Situation nicht stören, sind die, die was anderes als Mastodon nicht kennen, und die, die was anderes als Mastodon nicht wollen.
Ganz ehrlich: So ein Fediverse will ich nicht. Ich weiß schon ganz genau, warum ich nicht auf Mastodon bin. Und ich lasse mir mein Hubzilla nicht zu einem weiteren Mastodon zusammenstreichen nur um des lieben Friedens willen.
Und eins kannst du mir glauben: Mike Macgirvin wird da nicht mitziehen. Mario Vavti und Harald Eilertsen auch nicht. Eher schmeißen sie wohl ActivityPub ganz raus und setzen nur noch auf Zot bzw. Nomad.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #NichtNurMastodon #Mastoverse #MastodonFediverse -
@Kristian Ich meine, das Fediverse kann sich auch an Mastodon anpassen. Alles nach Mastodons Vorgaben machen. Aufhören, ActivityPub by the book zu implementieren. Aufhören zu versuchen, ActivityPub zu verbessern. Statt dessen einfach Mastodon implementieren.
Dann hätten wir Frieden.
Dann würde aber alles nach Gargrons Pfeife tanzen.
Dann könnten wir vor allem tatsächliche Fortschritte im Fediverse vergessen.
Dann könnten wir nomadische Identität in die Tonne kloppen.
Dann könnten wir mehrere Identitäten pro Konto in die Tonne kloppen.
Dann könnten wir mehrere Profile pro Identität in die Tonne kloppen.
Dann könnten wir alle Profilfelder in die Tonne kloppen, die Mastodon nicht hat.
Dann könnten wir Berechtigungen in die Tonne kloppen.
Dann könnten wir Antwortenkontrolle in die Tonne kloppen.
Dann könnten wir vernünftige Listen in die Tonne kloppen.
Dann könnten wir Zitate in die Tonne kloppen. (Nicht Drükos, sondern Zitate wie in Internetforen.)
Dann könnten wir Emoji-Reaktionen in die Tonne kloppen.
Dann könnten wir ordentliche Darstellung langer bzw. formatierter Inhalte in die Tonne kloppen.
Dann könnten wir mehr als 4 Bilder in normalen Posts in die Tonne kloppen.
Dann könnten wir in normale Posts eingebettete Bilder in die Tonne kloppen.
Alles, weil Gargron das auf Mastodon nicht will. Und was Gargron auf Mastodon nicht will, das hat gefälligst auch sonst keiner zu implementieren, weil das nur Unfrieden stiftet.
Wir hätten Frieden.
Aber das wäre ein Diktatfrieden. Das Fediverse wäre wirklich nur noch Mastodon. Und Gargron hätte gewonnen. Sein Mastodon wäre der Alleinherrscher über das Fediverse. Und sein großer Nemesis, Mike Macgirvin, wäre vernichtend geschlagen.
Aber wir hätten Frieden.
Und die einzigen, die sich an der Situation nicht stören, sind die, die was anderes als Mastodon nicht kennen, und die, die was anderes als Mastodon nicht wollen.
Ganz ehrlich: So ein Fediverse will ich nicht. Ich weiß schon ganz genau, warum ich nicht auf Mastodon bin. Und ich lasse mir mein Hubzilla nicht zu einem weiteren Mastodon zusammenstreichen nur um des lieben Friedens willen.
Und eins kannst du mir glauben: Mike Macgirvin wird da nicht mitziehen. Mario Vavti und Harald Eilertsen auch nicht. Eher schmeißen sie wohl ActivityPub ganz raus und setzen nur noch auf Zot bzw. Nomad.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #NichtNurMastodon #Mastoverse #MastodonFediverse -
This is my 200th Post on the #Mastodon #Fediverse!
Yes I Joined Mastodon on Sep 16, 2022 and only have 200 posts, I go for quality posts over quantity.
I like how the Fediverse is so much more than just Mastodon.
The only thing that I feel is lacking is something like #PeerTube but without the lame instance's have to follow each other crap.🙄
I Wish someone would fork the PeerTube project and remove that part of it. -
This is my 200th Post on the #Mastodon #Fediverse!
Yes I Joined Mastodon on Sep 16, 2022 and only have 200 posts, I go for quality posts over quantity.
I like how the Fediverse is so much more than just Mastodon.
The only thing that I feel is lacking is something like #PeerTube but without the lame instance's have to follow each other crap.🙄
I Wish someone would fork the PeerTube project and remove that part of it. -
This is my 200th Post on the #Mastodon #Fediverse!
Yes I Joined Mastodon on Sep 16, 2022 and only have 200 posts, I go for quality posts over quantity.
I like how the Fediverse is so much more than just Mastodon.
The only thing that I feel is lacking is something like #PeerTube but without the lame instance's have to follow each other crap.🙄
I Wish someone would fork the PeerTube project and remove that part of it. -
@Maxi 10x ?
Also ganz ehrlich, Software die das nicht nutzerfreundlich implementiert, ist einfach nicht Stand der Technik. Das ist, als würde ich einen Mail-Client von 2000 nehmen und bin überrascht, wie schlecht er moderne HTML-Mails rendert (wenn überhaupt).
Fediverse-Software, die mir weder nomadische Identität bietet noch ein Berechtigungssystem, das z. B. regelt, ob mir jemand Posts schicken darf, ob mir jemand DMs schicken darf, ob jemand mein Profil sehen darf usw., ist seit 2012 auch nicht mehr Stand der Technik. So.Dass die paar Friendica- und Hubzilla-Hardcore-Nerds womöglich nie mit dem wachsenden Mastodon-Fediverse (seit 2016!) in Kontakt gekommen sein könnten, ist auch nur ein philosophisches Gedankenspiel.
Ganz und gar nicht.
Auf Hubzilla ist ActivityPub nicht das Basisprotokoll; das ist Zot6. ActivityPub ist optional, kann vom Admin für den ganzen Hub (= Instanz) deaktiviert werden und muß für jeden neuen Kanal erst händisch aktiviert werden. Das heißt, es ist nicht zwangsweise an. Es ist problemlos möglich, Hubzilla zu nutzen, ohne auch nur die technische Möglichkeit zu haben, sich mit Mastodon zu verbinden, indem man diese Möglichkeit gar nicht erst einschaltet.
Meines Wissens hatte bis ca. 2023 auch Friendica die Möglichkeit, ActivityPub im Konto abzuschalten, weil auch Friendica ursprünglich auf einem eigenen Protokoll basierte, DFRN.
Hubzilla ist zusammen mit (streams) im Grunde eine eigene Bubble. Und Friendica, Hubzilla und (streams) sind eine eigene historisch gewachsene größere Bubble, weil sie sich immer noch sehr ähnlich sind, von der Handhabung wie daher auch kulturell, zumal sie denselben Schöpfer haben.
Alle drei sind nicht an Twitter orientiert, sondern eher an Facebook. Es gibt nur gegenseitige Verbindungen und nicht Followers und Followed. Und es gibt auch keine Verkettungen von Posts zu Threads, sondern jeder Thread ist genau ein (1) Post plus lauter Kommentare.
Alle drei haben im Grunde keine Zeichenbegrenzung für Posts. Für (streams) kenne ich das technische Limit für die Postlänge: über 24.000.000 Zeichen.
Dafür aber haben sie die volle Palette an Textformatierung bis hin zum Einbetten von Bildern in Posts. Alle drei sind also definitiv keine Twitter-Alternativen, sondern Facebook trifft Blogs trifft noch ein paar Zusatzfeatures. Es ist auf allen dreien vollkommen normal, tausende Zeichen in einem Stück zu posten.
Alle drei haben kein CW-Feld wie Mastodon. Auf Hubzilla ist das immer noch das, was es eigentlich seit 2008 ist, seit StatusNet es eingeführt hat: ein Summary-Feld. Friendica und (streams) haben Markup-Tags für dieselbe Funktion: Zusammenfassungen.
Alle drei generieren ihre CWs vollautomatisch leserseitig mit Hilfe einer Liste von Schlüsselwörtern. Das ist da der Standard seit 2010 (siehe unten), und die Nutzer von allen dreien schwören darauf, daß das besser ist, als anderen Nutzern CWs zwangsweise aufzudrücken. Übrigens hat Mastodon sowas seit zwei Jahren auch, aber weil das nie Teil der Mastodon-Kultur war, nutzt das keiner.
Es ist übrigens nur zu verständlich, wenn Friendica-, Hubzilla- und (streams)-Nutzer keinen Bock haben, sich großartig mit Mastodon-Nutzern zu verbinden. Denn das führt früher oder später dazu, daß irgendwelche Mastodon-Nutzer ankommen und versuchen, diesen Friendica-, Hubzilla- und (streams)-Nutzern die Mastodon-Kultur aufzuzwingen.
Erst merken die gar nicht, daß ihr Gegenüber gar nicht auf Mastodon ist, weil Mastodon es ihnen nicht anzeigt. Wenn sie es dann erfahren haben, interessiert es sie nicht. Es hat sich gefälligst jeder an die Mastodon-Regeln zu halten.
Also CWs überall. Auch bei Kommentaren Antworten. Wie, Hubzilla kann das nicht? Wieso haben "die" das anders gemacht als auf Mastodon? (Weil "die", nämlich @Mike Macgirvin ?️, das schon lange vor Mastodon gemacht haben.) Und bitte nicht mehr als vier Hashtags. Und bitte keine Textformatierung, die stört. Und definitiv nie, nie, nie mehr als 500 Zeichen.
Ironischerweise bekommt man von Mastodon-Nutzern auf den Deckel, wenn man Posts mit mehr als 500 Zeichen nicht in Threads zerschneidet, und von Friendica-Nutzern wie @Matthias ⚝, wenn man genau das sehr wohl tut.
Ach, und:
Ja, Mastodon ist von 2016. Aber Hubzilla ist von 2015, zehn Monate älter als Mastodon. Und es wurde umgebaut aus einem Fork von Friendica, und Friendica ist von 2010, fünfeinhalb Jahre älter als Mastodon.
Es gibt kein Mastodon-Fediverse. Es gab nie ein Mastodon-Fediverse. StatusNet war zuerst hier, seit 2008, dann Friendica, dann Hubzilla, und dann erst irgendwann Mastodon.
Friendica und Hubzilla haben sich also nicht mit Mastodon verbunden, sondern Mastodon hat sich, als es gestartet wurde, mit Friendica und Hubzilla verbunden.
Übrigens: Mag sein, daß Mastodon ActivityPub "schon" im September 2017 eingeführt hat. Aber als erstes hatte es Hubzilla, nämlich seit Juli 2017.
Unbegrenzte Zeichenlänge war hier zuerst. Textformatierung auf Blog-Niveau war hier zuerst. Und automatisch leserseitig generierte CWs waren hier auch zuerst.
CC: @damon @Hiker
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #FediverseKultur #MastodonKultur #MastodonFediverse #NichtNurMastodon #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) -
This'll probably be biased, but which do you prefer? #tech #social #fediverse (& feel free to reply why) 1️⃣ Bluesky/ATProtocol 2️⃣ Mastodon/Fediverse 3️⃣ Nostr 4️⃣ Threads 📊 Show results
-
This'll probably be biased, but which do you prefer? #tech #social #fediverse (& feel free to reply why) 1️⃣ Bluesky/ATProtocol 2️⃣ Mastodon/Fediverse 3️⃣ Nostr 4️⃣ Threads 📊 Show results
-
This'll probably be biased, but which do you prefer? #tech #social #fediverse (& feel free to reply why) 1️⃣ Bluesky/ATProtocol 2️⃣ Mastodon/Fediverse 3️⃣ Nostr 4️⃣ Threads 📊 Show results
-
This'll probably be biased, but which do you prefer? #tech #social #fediverse (& feel free to reply why) 1️⃣ Bluesky/ATProtocol 2️⃣ Mastodon/Fediverse 3️⃣ Nostr 4️⃣ Threads 📊 Show results
-
@Fayedray @FeralRobots This attitude that anyone who criticizes #MastodonFediverse just wants more clicks is part of the problem.
-
@Fayedray @FeralRobots This attitude that anyone who criticizes #MastodonFediverse just wants more clicks is part of the problem.
-
@Fayedray @FeralRobots This attitude that anyone who criticizes #MastodonFediverse just wants more clicks is part of the problem.
-
@Fayedray @FeralRobots This attitude that anyone who criticizes #MastodonFediverse just wants more clicks is part of the problem.
-
@Fayedray @FeralRobots This attitude that anyone who criticizes #MastodonFediverse just wants more clicks is part of the problem.
-
@tokudan
Sorry, RIESEN MIST gebaut!
Hatte die Benachrichtigung gestern von @ordnung erhalten, einerseits leider nicht folgerichtig interpretiert, andererseits wegen aktuter Covid-Erkrankung bei Gattin nervlich ziemlich am Ende. Zudem hatte ich deswegen mögliche informative Ergänzungen nicht (mehr) erhalten, weil ich heute erst ziemlich spät ins #MastodonFediverse wollte. -
@tokudan
Sorry, RIESEN MIST gebaut!
Hatte die Benachrichtigung gestern von @ordnung erhalten, einerseits leider nicht folgerichtig interpretiert, andererseits wegen aktuter Covid-Erkrankung bei Gattin nervlich ziemlich am Ende. Zudem hatte ich deswegen mögliche informative Ergänzungen nicht (mehr) erhalten, weil ich heute erst ziemlich spät ins #MastodonFediverse wollte. -
@one
Sorry, RIESEN MIST gebaut!
Hatte die Benachrichtigung gestern von @ordnung erhalten, einerseits leider nicht folgerichtig interpretiert, andererseits wegen aktuter Covid-Erkrankung bei Gattin nervlich ziemlich am Ende. Zudem hatte ich deswegen mögliche informative Ergänzungen nicht (mehr) erhalten, weil ich heute erst ziemlich spät ins #MastodonFediverse wollte.
Löschung erledigt! -
@Graf_Fencheltee
Hab' seine Toots durchgelesen - ein typischer "Allesindsobösezumirundwiedersprechenmirandauernd"-Typ von der rechtsblaubraunen Reichsbürger- und Schwurbelfront!
Weg damit - mit sowas musste ich mich ständig im Vogelkäfig rumärgern. Ich mag' nimmer, deshalb bin ich zum #MastodonFediverse gegangen🙋♂️👋👍🏻 -
@malison
Moing🌄 Carsten 🙋♂️👋 Auch im #MastodonFediverse aufgeschlagen? Herzlich willkommen 👍🏻🤗