#iceshrimp — Public Fediverse posts
Live and recent posts from across the Fediverse tagged #iceshrimp, aggregated by home.social.
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Tellement de la frappe, #Iceshrimp
(jamais je ferai la transition) -
CW: What the Mastodon overlords are allowed and justified to do, and what the non-Mastodon savages are not; CW: long (over 6,000 characters), Fediverse meta, Fediverse-beyond-Mastodon meta, character limit meta, CW meta
Yeah, I get it.
Mastodon and its users rule supreme over the Fediverse. After all, the Fediverse was invented by Gargron. It started when Mastodon started, and everything that isn't Mastodon just latched onto Mastodon and its Fediverse.
Mastodon users are the only civilised users in the Fediverse, the only ones with something like a culture. The Fediverse culture is Mastodon's culture as defined in the spring of 2022. All those who don't live by Mastodon's culture are uncivilised, uneducated, savage barbarians. And it isn't just the Mastodon users' right and privilege to educate them and shape them into good Mastodon users, it's their duty.
Even when it turns out that these barbarians aren't even on Mastodon, that they're on something that's very much not Mastodon, they can't possibly have a culture of their own. After all, they don't live by Mastodon's culture, and if it isn't Mastodon's culture, it isn't culture at all. Not even if it predates Mastodon's current culture by over a decade like Friendica's culture does.
Of course, this also means that when non-Mastodon users come and give Mastodon users unsolicited "advice" or recommend them to use Mastodon in a certain way that goes against Mastodon's culture, the Mastodon users are fully justified to silence them by any means available.What this means:
When a Mastodon user uses "Fediverse" and "Mastodon" mutually synonymously, it's the right thing to do because that's part of Mastodon's culture. And it makes things easier to understand.
When a non-Mastodon user explains that the Fediverse is not only Mastodon, and that "Fediverse" and "Mastodon" do not mean the same, it's evil and intrusive and deeply disturbing.
When a Mastodon user refers to any message in the Fediverse as a "toot", it's the right thing to do because that's part of Mastodon's culture.
When a Misskey or Forkey user talks about "notes", it's irritating. When a Friendica or Hubzilla or (streams) or Forte user distinguishes between "posts" and "comments", it has even less of a place in the Mastodon Fediverse.
Features that only Mastodon has are actually mandatory for the whole Fediverse. Any Fediverse server software that hasn't got these features implemented in exactly the same way as Mastodon is broken.
Features in non-Mastodon Fediverse server software that Mastodon doesn't have are wrong and evil and not allowed to be used.
Mastodon users are allowed, justified and expected to tell non-Mastodon users to limit their posts to no more than 500 characters. It especially disturbs those who refuse to move away from the official Mastodon phone app.
Non-Mastodon users are not allowed to tell Mastodon users to not cut their long posts into threads.
Mastodon users are allowed, justified and expected to tell non-Mastodon users to put content warnings into their summary/abstract field.
Mastodon users are allowed, justified and expected to tell non-Mastodon users to only use their summary/abstract field for content warnings. After all, that's what Gargron invented that field for.
Non-Mastodon users are not allowed to tell non-Mastodon users that it was Evan Prodromou who invented that field as early as 2008. That he invented it as a summary field. That it was actually a Mastodon user who repurposed that field for CWs in 2017, the year after Mastodon was launched. Gargron only let it pass.
Non-Mastodon users are not allowed to use that field for anything else than CWs.
Non-Mastodon users are not allowed to add hashtags instead of CWs so that reader-side CWs can automatically be generated by filters. Even though Mastodon itself has literally introduced this very feature with version 4.0 in October, 2022.
Mastodon users are allowed, justified and expected to tell non-Mastodon users to not only write alt-texts for all the images they post, but to write them nicely long and detailed. After all, they've got 1,500 characters for alt-texts.
Misskey and Forkey users are not allowed to tell Mastodon users to limit their alt-texts to no more than 512 characters because that's the maximum that Misskey and the Forkeys accept, and on top of that, due to a bug, they delete all alt-texts longer than that. From a Misskey/Forkey point of view, writing long alt-texts is like not writing any alt-texts at all. But the Misskey/Forkey point of view is invalid in Mastodon's culture.
Mastodon users are allowed, justified and expected to toot to Lemmy any way they want, and that's the Mastodon way. If it doesn't work properly on Lemmy, then Lemmy is broken.
Lemmy users, even Lemmy moderators, and other users of Fediverse software that supports groups are not allowed to tell Mastodon users how to post to Lemmy in a way that Lemmy understands.
Mastodon users are allowed, justified and expected to even tell Lemmy users to limit their "toots" to no more than 500 characters and use hashtags, but not too many of them.
Lemmy users and even Lemmy moderators are not allowed to tell Mastodon users to stop spamming Lemmy with mentions and with hashtags that don't work on Lemmy anyway, also because both highly irritate the Lemmy users. Almost all of them came straight from Reddit after their third-party apps were killed, and almost none of them have ever been on Twitter or Mastodon.
Mastodon users and Mastodon admins are allowed and justified to block any and all non-Mastodon servers because they misbehave by Mastodon's standards.
(streams) and Forte admins are not allowed to block the entirety of Mastodon, all present and future servers, by user agent (which, by the way, they're totally capable of) because it misbehaves by their standards. Mastodon doesn't misbehave, and the Hubzilla/(streams)/Forte standards are all wrong if they differ from Mastodon's standards.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #MastodonFediverse #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #Misskey #Forkey #Forkeys #Iceshrimp #Iceshrimp-JS #Sharkey #CherryPick #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Lemmy #MastodonCulture #FediverseCulture #MastodonCentricity #MastodonNormativity -
Hallo liebe Fediverse-Admins,
ich bin auf der Suche nach einer Botpolicy für Anubis in Kombination mit Iceshrimp.
Meine aktuelle Policy ist folgende: paste.obco.pro/upload/dRGDKe
Jedoch scheint damit das Iceshrimp UI nicht richtig zu laden. Also der Feed und die Benachrichtigungen laden nicht richtig.
Hier ist der Browserlog: paste.obco.pro/upload/er0w4b
Wenn jemand eine Idee oder eine Policy hat, welche mit Iceshrimp funktioniert, wäre ich sehr dankbar.
:boost_animated: :blahaj: :rosahaj_thinking:
#fedimin #fedimins #iceshrimp #iceshrimpjs #anubis -
CW: The various issues with quote-posts on Mastodon that nobody on Mastodon is aware of; CW: long (almost 6,800 characters), Fediverse meta, Fediverse-beyond-Mastodon meta, Mastodon looking bad in comparison with the rest of the Fediverse, quote-post meta
Okay, everyone, sit down. I'll tell you a few things about Mastodon's quote-post feature that you know nothing about. Definitely not if all you know is Mastodon. Oh, and by the way, in case you don't know yet in spite of following me: The Fediverse is not only Mastodon.Mastodon has been quote-post-able for as long as it has been around
Eugen Rochko is bringing quote-posts to Mastodon. But he is not bringing quote-posts to the Fediverse. The Fediverse has had quote-posts for 15 years.
It was Mike Macgirvin who introduced quote-posts to the Fediverse in July, 2010, when he launched something called Mistpark back then and Friendica today (https://friendi.ca, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendica). That was five and a half years before Mastodon was launched.
In fact, when Mastodon was launched, it immediately federated itself with Friendica and with Hubzilla, a fork of a fork of Friendica by Friendica's own creator which has quote-posts, too. So when Mastodon was launched, it immediately became possible to quote-post Mastodon toots. Not on Mastodon itself, but on Friendica and Hubzilla.Just about everything that isn't Mastodon has already got quote-posts right now
Here are a few (but not even all) Fediverse server applications that already have quote-posts:
And they're all part of the Fediverse which means that they're all connected to Mastodon. People on all of these can theoretically read your Mastodon toots. And people on all of these can theoretically quote-post your Mastodon toots.Mastodon's quote-post opt-in is not a water-tight defence against being quote-posted
So you can choose not to be quote-posted. But you can only choose not to be quote-posted by Mastodon users. This opt-in does not work with the rest of the Fediverse.
First of all, that's because Mastodon's quote-post feature is not compatible with anything else out there. Mastodon's developers have chosen to re-invent the quote-posting wheel from scratch. They've intentionally chosen to do so in a way that's completely incompatible with everything else out there.
Their intention was to reinforce Mastodon's appearance to its own users as the one and only Fediverse and ActivityPub gold standard and to make Pleroma, Akkoma, Misskey, Firefish, Iceshrimp, Sharkey, CherryPick, Catodon, Mitra, Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams), Forte etc. look broken. It's part of their plan to keep Mastodon users on Mastodon in the wake of Mastodon's market share in the Fediverse shrinking.
Also, they did not publish any specifications on their quote-post implementation, so even those non-Mastodon developers who are fast enough didn't have a chance to implement support for Mastodon's opt-in.
This means that even if you've set your posts to un-quote-post-able on Mastodon, everything I've listed above can still quote-post you with no resistance.Absolute Fediverse-wide protection against being quote-posted is impossible
And don't get your hopes high that the day will come when nobody on the Fediverse will be able to quote-post you, whether they're on Mastodon or not. Such a setting is technologically impossible.
Who says that? Mike Macgirvin says that. The guy who launched Friendica and brought quote-posts to the Fediverse 15 years ago, remember? This guy has built the Fediverse's most elaborate, most complex, most fine-grained, most advanced permissions system into (streams) and Forte.
These two have reply control, the kind of which you couldn't image in your wildest dreams. I'm serious. They have permissions settings for almost everything on two or three levels, for your whole channel, individually per contact and sometimes even per post or per file or folder in the file storage.
But they don't have quote-post permission settings. Because that's impossible to enforce Fediverse-wide. And even if it was possible, it'd be pointless. If they can't quote-post you, they'll copy-paste you. If they can't copy-paste you either because they're on a phone, they'll post screenshots of your toots.
Mike also says, there is exactly one way to keep people from quote-posting you, and that's by not posting in public. Unfortunately, unlike what he has created, Mastodon has little between "public" and "DM", if anything.Mastodon cannot quote-post the non-Mastodon Fediverse
This may be the big surprise: It has recently been discovered by chance that Mastodon's quote-post feature only works with Mastodon toots.
On the one hand, Pleroma, Akkoma, Misskey, Sharkey, Friendica, Hubzilla etc. can quote-post just about everything that comes in from Mastodon. But on the other hand, no Mastodon 4.5 user will be able to quote-post anything from either of these. Or from Pixelfed or PeerTube or Loops or Castopod or WriteFreely or whatever.
That's because Mastodon is looking for a quote-post opt-in. But nothing else in the Fediverse supports Mastodon's quote-post opt-in, also seeing as it's still officially in development. And it's highly unlikely that everything in the Fediverse will adopt another piece of non-standard, proprietary Mastodon tech."Quote" actually means something else
Lastly, Mastodon has the audacity to call this feature "quote".
A "quote" is something else. Remember forums? Like, bulletin-board forums with subforums and all? Where posts are quoted in follow-ups, entirely or only partially? That's what a quote is. That has got nothing to do with quote-posts.
Why I say that there's a difference? Because I also say that Friendica has had both quotes and quote-posts.
It has had them for 15 years, both quotes (which it calls "quotes", go figure) and quote-posts (which it calls "quoted shares", and which include the original author of the quoted post, complete with their profile picture and a clickable link to them, as well as a clickable link to the original post).
Hubzilla has both. (streams) has both. Forte has both. And I wouldn't be surprised if other Fediverse server software had both, too.
The irony is that Mastodon itself has been able to render actual quotes since version 4.0 from October, 2022. At the same time, it will continue to be unable to render any quote-posts done outside of Mastodon for the foreseeable future.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #Pleroma #Akkoma #Misskey #Forkey #Forkeys #Firefish #Iceshrimp #Sharkey #CherryPick #Catodon #Mitra #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares -
@Osma A 🇫🇮🇺🇦 This would require three things, however.
One, any Fediverse server software would have to be capable of altering comments from any Fediverse software. Don't think that posts, comments etc. aren't formatted the same everywhere. They aren't.
For example, Mastodon would have to know and understand that it would have to remove@[email protected]from Misskey, Sharkey, CherryPick, Iceshrimp etc. notes,@[url=https://mas.to/users/osma]Osma A 🇫🇮🇺🇦[/url]from Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte comments and an invisible shadow mention from (streams) and Forte comments, too.
Two, anyone in the Fediverse would have to always have full and unlimited permission to alter everyone else's content without their consent. This is particularly crucial in the cases of Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte with their highly advanced and fine-grained permissions systems that don't even cover having your content altered by others.
Three, edits on any Fediverse software must always be federated to absolutely everywhere and anywhere in the Fediverse, no exceptions, regardless of software. AFAIK, there is Fediverse server software that still doesn't understand edits at all, and that will either ignore received edits or understand them as and treat them like new posts.
It's very similar to the wish for being able to edit alt-texts into other people's posts which seems to pretty much always come from people who think that the Fediverse is only Mastodon, or at least that everything in the Fediverse is like Mastodon plus one or two extra features.
And let's be honest: If you give especially Mastodon users the ability to alter other people's posts, they will want to alter other people's posts in lots of other ways. Like, delete summaries on Friendica/Hubzilla/(streams)/Forte posts because they're "abuse of the CW field" from a "Fediverse = Mastodon" point of view. Remove all hashtags but four, regardless of these hashtags triggering the automated, individual, reader-side content warnings that have existed in the Friendica family since five and a half years before Mastodon was first published. Cutting "long posts" (= everything over 500 characters) down to a maximum of 500 characters because "the Fediverse was invented by Eugen Rochko for only microblogging". Even removing any and all mentions of the Fediverse beyond Mastodon. Removing text formatting because "it has no place in a Twitter alternative". Or removing all contents from posts or comments altogether.
Of course, the very same Mastodon users will completely flip their shit if a Friendica user comes and copies their 20-post threads into one long post, deletes the contents of the 19 follow-ups afterwards and replaces the content warning in the abstract field (= their CW field) with an actual abstract, just to fit it into a Fediverse culture that's way older than Mastodon itself.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #Misskey #Sharkey #CherryPick #Iceshrimp #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Mention #Mentions #MentionTag #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #Permission #Permissions -
@JustBob Discord has completely warped the term "server" for entire generations of Internet users. On Discord, "server" means "chatroom".
In the Fediverse, "server" doesn't mean "chatroom". It means "server". A computer.
For example, a rack computer with no screen and no keyboard and no mouse bolted into a server rack at a data centre.
Or an old laptop that someone had lying around or a Raspberry Pi mini-computer running at someone's home, connected to their landline.
On each one of these, a big or small Twitter can be running (Mastodon).
Or a wholly different Twitter (Pleroma, Akkoma, Misskey, Calckey, Firefish, Iceshrimp, Sharkey, Catodon, Meisskey, Tanukey, Neko...).
(Here's the first important new thing for you to learn about the Fediverse: The Fediverse is not only Mastodon.)
Or a Facebook with a side of a blog and a cloud server (Friendica, (streams), Forte).
(Here's the second important new thing for you to learn about the Fediverse: The Fediverse is not only short-form microblogging. Look at this comment. Look at what I've done. Embedded links. Bold type. Impossible on Mastodon. But possible elsewhere in the Fediverse.)
Or a Facebook meets WordPress meets Google Cloud Services meets even more stuff on top (Hubzilla; this is where I am).
Or an Instagram (Pixelfed).
Or a YouTube (PeerTube).
Or a Twitch (Owncast).
Or a Reddit (Lemmy, /kbin, Mbin, PieFed).
Or a Goodreads (BookWyrm).
Or whatever. There are over 150 different server applications in the Fediverse.
mastodon.social, where you are, is only one of over 10,000 big and small Twitters of the same kind (Mastodon).
If Mastodon was like Discord, all 10,000+ Mastodon servers would run in one and the same gigantic data centre in the USA, owned by Mastodon, Inc. And they would all be property of Mastodon, Inc.
If the Fediverse was like Discord, all 30,000+ Fediverse servers would run in one and the same gigantic data centre in the USA, owned by Mastodon, Inc. And they would all be property of Mastodon, Inc. Also, they would be fully identical in functionality.
But as I've said above: They're all running on their own separate machines. With their own separate owners.
And the different server applications have different developers, and they are being developed independently from one another.
Okay, now comes the kicker: These server applications are not walled up against one another. Not only are all instances of the same server applications (e.g. Mastodon) connected to each other, but all instances of one server application are also connected to all instances of all the other server applications.
Imagine you're on Twitter. But your new friend is on Facebook. You can't follow a Facebook user on Twitter, and you can't follow a Twitter user on Facebook.
In the Fediverse, you can. You can be on Twitter. And follow a Facebook user. Directly from Twitter. Without a Facebook account.
Only that they aren't named Twitter and Facebook in the Fediverse. Twitter is named Mastodon or Pleroma or Akkoma or Misskey or Calckey or Firefish or Iceshrimp or Sharkey or Catodon or... There are dozens of Twitter alternatives in the Fediverse. Well, and Facebook is named Friendica or Hubzilla or (streams) or Forte.
You can be on Mastodon. And you can follow Friendica accounts. From Mastodon. Without a Friendica account.
This comment is a very good example. You are on Mastodon, created by @Eugen Rochko in 2016 as an alternative to Twitter that aimed to be as close to Twitter as possible.
The server that you're on, mastodon.social, is owned by Mastodon, Inc. and running on one or multiple rack servers in San Francisco, California, USA owned by Fastly.
I am on Hubzilla, created by @Mike Macgirvin 🖥️ in 2012 by forking his own Friendica from 2010, and currently mainly maintained by @Mario Vavti and @Harald Eilertsen. Hubzilla has got nothing to do with Mastodon whatsoever. It started out as an alternative to Facebook, but not a clone, rather better than Facebook, with full-blown long-form blogging capability and a built-in file storage, and it has been enhanced greatly in functionality even beyond that.
The server that I'm on, Netzgemeinde, is owned and administered by @Mark Nowiasz, who has no affiliation with the Hubzilla developers, and running on a rack server in Nuremberg, Germany owned by Netcup.
And yet, you can see this comment coming from Hubzilla on Mastodon.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Server #Instance #Mastodon #Pleroma #Akkoma #Misskey #Forkey #Forkeys #Calckey #Firefish #Iceshrimp #Sharkey #Catodon #Meisskey #Tanukey #Neko #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Pixelfed #PeerTube #Owncast #Lemmy #/kbin #Mbin #PieFed #BookWyrm #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse