#zetalisp — Public Fediverse posts

As part of my history project, I was looking for a document I wrote that offered specific advice on converting Maclisp and Zetalisp to Common Lisp.

I had to laugh when I found it. It's already published as part of the Sunday Morning Edition of the Pitmanual (the webbed version of the Revised Maclisp Manual, the printed version of which was the Saturday Evening Edition).

The printed version does not contain the conversion guide. It was an "extra" I through in as part of the webbing. But it's perhaps hard to find, so I thought I'd say it out loud. It's several pages that begin here:

https://maclisp.info/pitmanual/cl-conv-01-intr.html

#Lisp #Maclisp #Zetalisp #CommonLisp #KentsHistoryProject #Lisp #ComputerHistory

cc @screwlisp @larsbrinkhoff @eswenson

I couldn't find a copy of the memo named "Loop Iteration Macro" by Glenn Burke and David Moon, January 1981 (MIT/LCS/TM-169) at MIT's dSpace site, or anywhere else. So I scanned in my copy and have uploaded it to my web site.

NOTE WELL: This document was written prior to CLTL and describes a facility that was available in MACLISP and the Lisp Machine's Zetalisp. Common Lisp drew design ideas from this, but the syntax, semantics, and associated functions/macros described in this are NOT the same as what Common Lisp offers.

For example, my recollection from long ago (which I did not re-check before making this post) is that there are other differences in syntax because this earlier version of Loop was underconstrained in the ordering of the keywords in a way that let you write some expressions that the committee felt might confuse people with their results.

But also, for reasons that slip my mind, Common Lisp did not adopt the define-loop-path macro that is described starting on page 19.

http://nhplace.com/kent/History/maclisp/MIT-LCS-TM-169-Loop-Iteration-Macro.pdf

#lisp #maclisp #loop #iteration #ComputerHistory #KentsHistoryProject #lisp #LispM #Zetalisp #CommonLisp

cc @screwlisp

P.S.

Nice fractal!

The index is a good read:
...
circular-link 60
...
no-file-system 56
...
singular-matrix 48
...

#Conditions
#ConditionSystem
#ErrorDetection
#ErrorSignalling
#Lisp
#ZetaLisp

@kentpitman @screwlisp

@screwlisp

You can pick up the document 'Signalling and Handling Conditions' from this index page:

http://nhplace.com/kent/ZL/

It was longer than I thought it would be, but I think you'll find it interesting to see what the Zetalisp condition system (which inspired the Common Lisp condition system) looked like.

In spirit, it was much the same. The biggest differences are:

* The CL system has 'active' restarts, where the ZL system had a passive thing where you returned a value to the case context and hoped that it would do the thing you wanted. It felt quite a bit more error-prone (if you'll pardon the reuse of 'error' here, maybe I should say 'mistake-prone').

* The ZL condition system offers a lot of really low-level stuff that did not seem proper for CL.

* The set of operations offered in ZL was richer, but also a lot more complicated, I thought, and I worried people would not really see what it was trying to do.

* Obviously, the ZL system was based on Flavors, not CLOS, and made reference to a lot of LispM-specific packages.

* The document was published in January, 1983 and identifies itself as part of Symbolics Release 4.0.

There are other differences as well.

#Zetalisp #LispMachine #LispMachines #Symbolics #LispM
#ConditionHandling #ConditionSystem #ErrorSystem #ErrorHandling #CommonLisp #CL #Flavors #CLOS #History #ComputerHistory
#InternetArchive #Bitsavers

Day 7 ( 006.txt )
#100daystooffload an ode to #lisp #zetalisp , @amszmidt and the #lispm MIT-CADR.

I couldn't reconfigure my brain in the rapidly dwindling remaining time for my #100daystooffload IN ONE HUNDRED DAYS challenge. @82mhz
#gopher
gopher://tilde.club/0/~screwtape/synthember-100days-tooffload/006.txt
web
https://gopher.tildeverse.org/tilde.club/0/~screwtape/synthember-100days-tooffload/006.txt

Archive of:
https://gopher.tildeverse.org/tilde.club/1/~screwtape/synthember-100days-tooffload/
gopher://tilde.club/1/~screwtape/synthember-100days-tooffload/

#OldComputerChallenge #finalTransmission
#gopher
gopher://tilde.club/0/~screwtape/2023-17th-July-1-still-16th-in-some-TZ-lisp-docs.txt
gopher://tilde.club/0/~screwtape/2023-17th-July-2-final-transmission.txt
gopher://tilde.club/1/~screwtape/
It's now 000UTC 17th - 30 minutes.
back to
gopher://gopher.club/1/users/screwtape/
gopher://tilde.institute/1/~screwtape/
https://archives.aNONradio.net/#screwtape

Next up, @nutilius ' #TwoHoursLispPerDay challenge !
#interlisp #zetalisp #EmbeddableCommonLisp #MCCLIM for me !
(That's + two hours, I'm not cutting down ;p)

#OldComputerChallenge #finalTransmission
#gopher
gopher://tilde.club/0/~screwtape/2023-17th-July-1-still-16th-in-some-TZ-lisp-docs.txt
gopher://tilde.club/0/~screwtape/2023-17th-July-2-final-transmission.txt
gopher://tilde.club/1/~screwtape/
It's now 000UTC 17th - 30 minutes.
back to
gopher://gopher.club/1/users/screwtape/
gopher://tilde.institute/1/~screwtape/
https://archives.aNONradio.net/#screwtape

Next up, @nutilius ' #TwoHoursLispPerDay challenge !
#interlisp #zetalisp #EmbeddableCommonLisp #MCCLIM for me !
(That's + two hours, I'm not cutting down ;p)

#OldComputerChallenge #finalTransmission
#gopher
gopher://tilde.club/0/~screwtape/2023-17th-July-1-still-16th-in-some-TZ-lisp-docs.txt
gopher://tilde.club/0/~screwtape/2023-17th-July-2-final-transmission.txt
gopher://tilde.club/1/~screwtape/
It's now 000UTC 17th - 30 minutes.
back to
gopher://gopher.club/1/users/screwtape/
gopher://tilde.institute/1/~screwtape/
https://archives.aNONradio.net/#screwtape

Next up, @nutilius ' #TwoHoursLispPerDay challenge !
#interlisp #zetalisp #EmbeddableCommonLisp #MCCLIM for me !
(That's + two hours, I'm not cutting down ;p)

#OldComputerChallenge #finalTransmission
#gopher
gopher://tilde.club/0/~screwtape/2023-17th-July-1-still-16th-in-some-TZ-lisp-docs.txt
gopher://tilde.club/0/~screwtape/2023-17th-July-2-final-transmission.txt
gopher://tilde.club/1/~screwtape/
It's now 000UTC 17th - 30 minutes.
back to
gopher://gopher.club/1/users/screwtape/
gopher://tilde.institute/1/~screwtape/
https://archives.aNONradio.net/#screwtape

Next up, @nutilius ' #TwoHoursLispPerDay challenge !
#interlisp #zetalisp #EmbeddableCommonLisp #MCCLIM for me !
(That's + two hours, I'm not cutting down ;p)

#OldComputerChallenge I "finished" my #zetalisp #lispm planner. Same #lisp will function in #CommonLisp as @amszmidt says is often the case.

gopher://tilde.club/I/~screwtape/2023-16th-July-3-working-planner.png
gopher://tilde.club/I/~screwtape/2023-16th-July-4-zmacs-zlist-working-planner.png
gopher://tilde.club/0/~screwtape/2023-16th-July-5-planner-with-planning-from-screenshots.txt
https://gopher.tildeverse.org/tilde.club/I/~screwtape/2023-16th-July-3-working-planner.png
https://gopher.tildeverse.org/tilde.club/I/~screwtape/2023-16th-July-4-zmacs-zlist-working-planner.png
https://gopher.tildeverse.org/tilde.club/0/~screwtape/2023-16th-July-5-planner-with-planning-from-screenshots.txt

@trurl
I was thinking of asking for that. I am also especially interested in elisp / major mode design at the moment because for old computer challenge I have been using the #lispm whose emacs implementation is #zmacs with #zetalisp major modes (and not gnu or lucient emacs with emacs-lisp).

I wonder if there is or was a near-antecedent to planner-mode major mode for Zmacs ? @amszmidt are you familiar with any TODO style major modes now or previously for zmacs?

@nil @icedquinn @sachac

#OldComputerChallenge last day #gopher / toot 1:
gopher://tilde.club/0/~screwtape/2023-16th-July-1-plan-composition-and-retrospective.txt
https://gopher.tildeverse.org/tilde.club/0/~screwtape/2023-16th-July-1-plan-composition-and-retrospective.txt

Old Computer Challenge Directory (and web proxy:)
gopher://tilde.club/1/~screwtape/
https://gopher.tildeverse.org/tilde.club/1/~screwtape/

#zetalisp #lispm #lisp source and usage (like debugging..)

In which I define LIST records as situation calculus actions over :keyword fluents (for a PLANNER).

Basically an argument to use LISP for mathematics like Sussman, but to culturally inherit Zetalisp's SET-DIFFERENCE and INTERSECTION of LISTs

#OldComputerChallenge July 14th so far from me:
#gopher
gopher://tilde.club/1/~screwtape/
gopher://tilde.club/9/~screwtape/2023-14th-July-1-interlisp.png
gopher://tilde.club/0/~screwtape/2023-14th-July-2-interlisp-etc.txt
gopher://tilde.club/0/~screwtape/2023-14th-July-3-zetalisp-planner-progress.txt

#interlisp #zetalisp #lisp
Web:
https://gopher.tildeverse.org/tilde.club/1/~screwtape/
https://gopher.tildeverse.org/tilde.club/9/~screwtape/2023-14th-July-1-interlisp.png
https://gopher.tildeverse.org/tilde.club/0/~screwtape/2023-14th-July-2-interlisp-etc.txt
https://gopher.tildeverse.org/tilde.club/0/~screwtape/2023-14th-July-3-zetalisp-planner-progress.txt

@amszmidt
Hey should I be calling #'CLOSURE myself? From what I can see, these are the same:
(setq x '5)
(setq closure-1 (let ((x 2)) (lambda () x)))
(setq closure-2 (let ((x 3)) (closure '(x) (lambda () x))))

? #lispm #zetalisp

#OldComputerChallenge
To-do to-day:
1. Screenshot of interlisp, since I was talking about it so people
can see interlisp programs running

2. Write world's simplest planner in #zetalisp #lispm

so many lisp machines

gopher://tilde.club/1/~screwtape/
https://gopher.tildeverse.org/tilde.club/1/~screwtape/

@acdw @cwebber
seriously though, I think our corner(s) of the #sm0lnet (internet where people know each other) *is* the MIT AI Lab in the late 70s. Christine would you join us in the #OldComputerChallenge both in celebrating hardware longevity, low resource computing, and history, and I am also using it as an opportunity to connect with - as you say - the lisp community of the 60s - 80s
(by running #zetalisp for the #occ as a bonus goal for me)

#lispm #gopher #climate in about 3 hours at 000UTC on #aNONradio powered by sdf.org . Join us on #sdf commode chat !
#climate - More @kentpitman #haiku
- I asked different people in NZ about the climate
- My #graeber essay take on modern capitalism versus the climate (you read my phlog, right)
#LispMachine revolution + #OldComputerChallenge
- I adopt #zetalisp as my normal programming language / complete programming system
- https://occ.deadnet.se/ starts next week! Get your old computer on!

The #Telegram and #Matrix groups named #FamilyOfLisp are now synchronized (bridged):

🦎 https://telegram.me/FamilyOfLisp

🦎 https://matrix.to/#/#family-of-lisp:magdeburg.jetzt

The two groups are for friendly exchange and dialogue on topics related to the Family of #Lisp #programming languages.

🌺

🏷️ #Scheme #CommonLisp #Racket #Clojure #DylanLang #ELSConf #AMOP #CLOS #InterLisp #OpenGenera #LispMachine #Medley #ConnectionMachine #Symbolics #AutoLisp #MacLisp #ZetaLisp #EuLisp #ISLisp #CLHS #SICP #AIMA #CLtL2 #PAIP #HTDP

If you would like to come over to a friendly group on Telegram focused on the programming languages in the #FamilyOfLisp — please feel welcomed to join!

We are here:

→ https://t.me/FamilyOfLisp 🦎

🌺

🏷️ #Lisp #Scheme #CommonLisp #Racket #InterLisp #Clojure #BaLindaLisp #Hy #ELSConf #ZetaLisp #LispMachine #ConnectionMachine #ThinkingMachines #Emacs #AutoLisp #CLOS #AMOP #SICP #CLtL2 #PAIP #AIMA #PCL #Symbolics #Genera #DylanLang #LFE #ISLisp #Arc #Janet #Jank #OnLisp #HTDP #CLHS #EuLisp