#lispmachine — Public Fediverse posts

👾 The lost cause of the Lisp machines

｢ The common idea was that the arrival of RISC machines had killed it, but in fact machines like the Sun 3/260 in its ‘AI’ configuration were already hammering nails in its coffin ｣

https://www.tfeb.org/fragments/2025/11/18/the-lost-cause-of-the-lisp-machines/

#LispMachine #symbolics #retrocomputing

@screwlisp

You can pick up the document 'Signalling and Handling Conditions' from this index page:

http://nhplace.com/kent/ZL/

It was longer than I thought it would be, but I think you'll find it interesting to see what the Zetalisp condition system (which inspired the Common Lisp condition system) looked like.

In spirit, it was much the same. The biggest differences are:

* The CL system has 'active' restarts, where the ZL system had a passive thing where you returned a value to the case context and hoped that it would do the thing you wanted. It felt quite a bit more error-prone (if you'll pardon the reuse of 'error' here, maybe I should say 'mistake-prone').

* The ZL condition system offers a lot of really low-level stuff that did not seem proper for CL.

* The set of operations offered in ZL was richer, but also a lot more complicated, I thought, and I worried people would not really see what it was trying to do.

* Obviously, the ZL system was based on Flavors, not CLOS, and made reference to a lot of LispM-specific packages.

* The document was published in January, 1983 and identifies itself as part of Symbolics Release 4.0.

There are other differences as well.

#Zetalisp #LispMachine #LispMachines #Symbolics #LispM
#ConditionHandling #ConditionSystem #ErrorSystem #ErrorHandling #CommonLisp #CL #Flavors #CLOS #History #ComputerHistory
#InternetArchive #Bitsavers

@screwlisp

You can pick up the document 'Signalling and Handling Conditions' from this index page:

http://nhplace.com/kent/ZL/

It was longer than I thought it would be, but I think you'll find it interesting to see what the Zetalisp condition system (which inspired the Common Lisp condition system) looked like.

In spirit, it was much the same. The biggest differences are:

* The CL system has 'active' restarts, where the ZL system had a passive thing where you returned a value to the case context and hoped that it would do the thing you wanted. It felt quite a bit more error-prone (if you'll pardon the reuse of 'error' here, maybe I should say 'mistake-prone').

* The ZL condition system offers a lot of really low-level stuff that did not seem proper for CL.

* The set of operations offered in ZL was richer, but also a lot more complicated, I thought, and I worried people would not really see what it was trying to do.

* Obviously, the ZL system was based on Flavors, not CLOS, and made reference to a lot of LispM-specific packages.

* The document was published in January, 1983 and identifies itself as part of Symbolics Release 4.0.

There are other differences as well.

#Zetalisp #LispMachine #LispMachines #Symbolics #LispM
#ConditionHandling #ConditionSystem #ErrorSystem #ErrorHandling #CommonLisp #CL #Flavors #CLOS #History #ComputerHistory
#InternetArchive #Bitsavers

@screwlisp

You can pick up the document 'Signalling and Handling Conditions' from this index page:

http://nhplace.com/kent/ZL/

It was longer than I thought it would be, but I think you'll find it interesting to see what the Zetalisp condition system (which inspired the Common Lisp condition system) looked like.

In spirit, it was much the same. The biggest differences are:

* The CL system has 'active' restarts, where the ZL system had a passive thing where you returned a value to the case context and hoped that it would do the thing you wanted. It felt quite a bit more error-prone (if you'll pardon the reuse of 'error' here, maybe I should say 'mistake-prone').

* The ZL condition system offers a lot of really low-level stuff that did not seem proper for CL.

* The set of operations offered in ZL was richer, but also a lot more complicated, I thought, and I worried people would not really see what it was trying to do.

* Obviously, the ZL system was based on Flavors, not CLOS, and made reference to a lot of LispM-specific packages.

* The document was published in January, 1983 and identifies itself as part of Symbolics Release 4.0.

There are other differences as well.

#Zetalisp #LispMachine #LispMachines #Symbolics #LispM
#ConditionHandling #ConditionSystem #ErrorSystem #ErrorHandling #CommonLisp #CL #Flavors #CLOS #History #ComputerHistory
#InternetArchive #Bitsavers

@screwlisp

You can pick up the document 'Signalling and Handling Conditions' from this index page:

http://nhplace.com/kent/ZL/

It was longer than I thought it would be, but I think you'll find it interesting to see what the Zetalisp condition system (which inspired the Common Lisp condition system) looked like.

In spirit, it was much the same. The biggest differences are:

* The CL system has 'active' restarts, where the ZL system had a passive thing where you returned a value to the case context and hoped that it would do the thing you wanted. It felt quite a bit more error-prone (if you'll pardon the reuse of 'error' here, maybe I should say 'mistake-prone').

* The ZL condition system offers a lot of really low-level stuff that did not seem proper for CL.

* The set of operations offered in ZL was richer, but also a lot more complicated, I thought, and I worried people would not really see what it was trying to do.

* Obviously, the ZL system was based on Flavors, not CLOS, and made reference to a lot of LispM-specific packages.

* The document was published in January, 1983 and identifies itself as part of Symbolics Release 4.0.

There are other differences as well.

#Zetalisp #LispMachine #LispMachines #Symbolics #LispM
#ConditionHandling #ConditionSystem #ErrorSystem #ErrorHandling #CommonLisp #CL #Flavors #CLOS #History #ComputerHistory
#InternetArchive #Bitsavers

@screwlisp

You can pick up the document 'Signalling and Handling Conditions' from this index page:

http://nhplace.com/kent/ZL/

It was longer than I thought it would be, but I think you'll find it interesting to see what the Zetalisp condition system (which inspired the Common Lisp condition system) looked like.

In spirit, it was much the same. The biggest differences are:

* The CL system has 'active' restarts, where the ZL system had a passive thing where you returned a value to the case context and hoped that it would do the thing you wanted. It felt quite a bit more error-prone (if you'll pardon the reuse of 'error' here, maybe I should say 'mistake-prone').

* The ZL condition system offers a lot of really low-level stuff that did not seem proper for CL.

* The set of operations offered in ZL was richer, but also a lot more complicated, I thought, and I worried people would not really see what it was trying to do.

* Obviously, the ZL system was based on Flavors, not CLOS, and made reference to a lot of LispM-specific packages.

* The document was published in January, 1983 and identifies itself as part of Symbolics Release 4.0.

There are other differences as well.

#Zetalisp #LispMachine #LispMachines #Symbolics #LispM
#ConditionHandling #ConditionSystem #ErrorSystem #ErrorHandling #CommonLisp #CL #Flavors #CLOS #History #ComputerHistory
#InternetArchive #Bitsavers

Any attempt to reimagine a (viable) #LispMachine would not just recreate what was, it would have to imagine what could've been and how lisp machines may have evolved since 1990s… eg: support for GUI, multitasking, WiFi, internet, World Wide Web, multi-gesture touchpads, touchscreens, multi-core cpus, 8 GB RAM, virtual machines, … just to name a few

This 1981 paper described an online help browser and authoring environment for TI or MIT Lisp Machines. The paper is interesting as it also briefly reviewed the state of online help systems at the time.

https://dl.acm.org/doi/abs/10.1145/1015579.810973

#retrocomputing #lisp #LispMachine

Tim Bradshaw discusses the myths around Lisp Machines and why they were probably never competitive.

https://www.tfeb.org/fragments/2025/11/18/the-lost-cause-of-the-lisp-machines

#LispMachine #retrocomputing #lisp

The Lambda Papers: When LISP Got Turned Into a Microprocessor https://hackaday.com/2025/10/20/the-lambda-papers-when-lisp-got-turned-into-a-microprocessor/ #ArtificialIntelligence #Lispmachine #commonlisp #History #lisp

The Lambda Papers: When LISP Got Turned Into a Microprocessor - The physical layout of the SCHEME-78 LISP-based microprocessor by Steele and Sussm... - https://hackaday.com/2025/10/20/the-lambda-papers-when-lisp-got-turned-into-a-microprocessor/ #artificialintelligence #lispmachine #commonlisp #history #lisp

In the 1980s some Xerox Lisp Machines came with an IBM PC/XT expansion card that allowed running MS-DOS software from the Interlisp-D environment, like the black window of a spreadsheet program at the bottom left. This screenshot is from a flyer of the Xerox 1186 AI workstation.

https://groups.google.com/g/lispcore/c/aCC34TmRSmc/m/KQwufgfABQAJ

#interlisp #msdos #LispMachine #retrocomputing

@demiguru

As far as I know, in Lisp Machine, the entire software, from the operating system into user applications are all available as gigantic Lisp functions.

We can use the functions in our code. We can also edit the code, even the code of the program we are currently running, save the code, then reload it.

Yes, the operating system itself can be edited, saved and reloaded.

But it is different with Emacs. It is basically an elisp interpreter with some functionalities to aid text editing. These two are all C code.

They cannot be edited, saved and reload.

Emacs in Unix possibly is different with Emacs (EINE, ZWEINE) on Lisp Machine.

#GNUEmacs #Emacs #LispMachine

@crandel @alerque @Zenie @weavejester

@simon_brooke

GNU Emacs as a Lisp Machine surely is very nice. But Daniel Weinreb himself disagree with that.

Is it possible that Emacs is only Lisp Machine in spirit only?

Here is the link: https://web.archive.org/web/20250427073638/http://xahlee.info/emacs/misc/Daniel_Weinreb_rebuttal_to_rms.html

Note: on the debate about the original creator of Emacs, whether it is David Moon & Guy Steele or Richard Stallman, I am completely neutral.

Edit: I have ever heard somewhere that Maxima is quite similar with GNU Emacs. At the core of Maxima is an implementation of Common Lisp. Maxima is just sitting on top of the Common Lisp.

#GNUEmacs #Emacs #LispMachine #Symbolic #LMI #RMS #DavidMoon #Maxima #CommonLisp

@demiguru @Zenie @weavejester

It's 1986 and you want to use Interlisp-D on your Xerox workstation. This primer will get you up to speed with booting a Lisp image, handling floppy disks, using the mouse, transferring files to a VAX, and interacting with the environment. Some of the material is obsolete but gives an idea of what it was like to use a Lisp Machine in the 1980s.

http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/xerox/interlisp-d/198510_Koto/3102300_Interlisp-D_A_Friendly_Primer_Nov86.pdf

#interlisp #retrocomputing #LispMachine

CADR4 #MIT #CADR #LispM #LispMachine current status is we are optimizing the simulation runtime (it takes about 10 minutes to run through almost all the boot PROM to the point we are accessing memory -- which isn't fun when you want to work on accessing memory).

#Lisp #VHDL #HDL

https://github.com/ams/cadr4

CADR4 #MIT #CADR #LispM #LispMachine current status is we are optimizing the simulation runtime (it takes about 10 minutes to run through almost all the boot PROM to the point we are accessing memory -- which isn't fun when you want to work on accessing memory).

#Lisp #VHDL #HDL

https://github.com/ams/cadr4

CADR4 #MIT #CADR #LispM #LispMachine current status is we are optimizing the simulation runtime (it takes about 10 minutes to run through almost all the boot PROM to the point we are accessing memory -- which isn't fun when you want to work on accessing memory).

#Lisp #VHDL #HDL

https://github.com/ams/cadr4

CADR4 #MIT #CADR #LispM #LispMachine current status is we are optimizing the simulation runtime (it takes about 10 minutes to run through almost all the boot PROM to the point we are accessing memory -- which isn't fun when you want to work on accessing memory).

#Lisp #VHDL #HDL

https://github.com/ams/cadr4

Someone should write some #MIT #CADR microcode and supporting code to make it possible to run #Interlisp / #Medley on the #MIT #LispMachine #LispM

Someone should write some #MIT #CADR microcode and supporting code to make it possible to run #Interlisp / #Medley on the #MIT #LispMachine #LispM

Someone should write some #MIT #CADR microcode and supporting code to make it possible to run #Interlisp / #Medley on the #MIT #LispMachine #LispM

Someone should write some #MIT #CADR microcode and supporting code to make it possible to run #Interlisp / #Medley on the #MIT #LispMachine #LispM

CADR4 #MIT #CADR #LispMachine #LispM is now running almost through the whole boot PROM!

Now work to add disk, and memory .. and a bus.

CADR4 #MIT #CADR #LispMachine #LispM is now running almost through the whole boot PROM!

Now work to add disk, and memory .. and a bus.

CADR4 #MIT #CADR #LispMachine #LispM is now running almost through the whole boot PROM!

Now work to add disk, and memory .. and a bus.

CADR4 #MIT #CADR #LispMachine #LispM is now running almost through the whole boot PROM!

Now work to add disk, and memory .. and a bus.

Agentic one promoting the #MIT #CADR #LispMachine #LispM.

Agentic one promoting the #MIT #CADR #LispMachine #LispM.

Agentic one promoting the #MIT #CADR #LispMachine #LispM.

Agentic one promoting the #MIT #CADR #LispMachine #LispM.

CADR4 project is steaming a head. Things have started going through the boot PROM... #LispMachine #LispM #CADR

https://github.com/ams/cadr4

CADR4 project is steaming a head. Things have started going through the boot PROM... #LispMachine #LispM #CADR

https://github.com/ams/cadr4

CADR4 project is steaming a head. Things have started going through the boot PROM... #LispMachine #LispM #CADR

https://github.com/ams/cadr4

CADR4 project is steaming a head. Things have started going through the boot PROM... #LispMachine #LispM #CADR

https://github.com/ams/cadr4

@lfa https://tumbleweed.nu/lm-3 #LispMachine revolution is nigh! #CADR #LispM.

@lfa https://tumbleweed.nu/lm-3 #LispMachine revolution is nigh! #CADR #LispM.

@lfa https://tumbleweed.nu/lm-3 #LispMachine revolution is nigh! #CADR #LispM.

@lfa https://tumbleweed.nu/lm-3 #LispMachine revolution is nigh! #CADR #LispM.

@lfa I've been restoring / working on the #MIT #CADR #LispMachine #LispM for .. 20+ years now. I've never had the real thing, there are maybe four machines left in the world. N/A?

@lfa I've been restoring / working on the #MIT #CADR #LispMachine #LispM for .. 20+ years now. I've never had the real thing, there are maybe four machines left in the world. N/A?

@lfa I've been restoring / working on the #MIT #CADR #LispMachine #LispM for .. 20+ years now. I've never had the real thing, there are maybe four machines left in the world. N/A?

@lfa I've been restoring / working on the #MIT #CADR #LispMachine #LispM for .. 20+ years now. I've never had the real thing, there are maybe four machines left in the world. N/A?

Two hackers going at it ... https://github.com/ams/cadr4/commits/master/ #LispM #LispMachine #MIT #CADR #FPGA #VHDL

Two hackers going at it ... https://github.com/ams/cadr4/commits/master/ #LispM #LispMachine #MIT #CADR #FPGA #VHDL

Two hackers going at it ... https://github.com/ams/cadr4/commits/master/ #LispM #LispMachine #MIT #CADR #FPGA #VHDL

Two hackers going at it ... https://github.com/ams/cadr4/commits/master/ #LispM #LispMachine #MIT #CADR #FPGA #VHDL

@screwlisp Thought you would be interested in this.

On the ex-Symbolics employees mailing list somebody posted a link to a "history of the Lisp machine".

https://youtu.be/sV7C6Ezl35A?si=S4uh4-JXKC2_7lOR

It's kind of long and so I didn't watch the whole thing, but just skipped around a little bit. Somebody else who did watch it said,

'Fascinating exposition. Given his mispronunciations of "CADR" and "Macsyma", it's clear that he wasn't in the room where it happened, nor spoke to anyone who was. But I can't quarrel with his research or cause-and-effect analysis of both the industry as a whole and Symbolics in particular.'

#symbolics #lispMachine

Who wants to pay me to work on #LispMachine #CADR #LispM?

Who wants to pay me to work on #LispMachine #CADR #LispM?