#lispmachine — Public Fediverse posts

👾 The lost cause of the Lisp machines

｢ The common idea was that the arrival of RISC machines had killed it, but in fact machines like the Sun 3/260 in its ‘AI’ configuration were already hammering nails in its coffin ｣

https://www.tfeb.org/fragments/2025/11/18/the-lost-cause-of-the-lisp-machines/

#LispMachine #symbolics #retrocomputing

@screwlisp

You can pick up the document 'Signalling and Handling Conditions' from this index page:

http://nhplace.com/kent/ZL/

It was longer than I thought it would be, but I think you'll find it interesting to see what the Zetalisp condition system (which inspired the Common Lisp condition system) looked like.

In spirit, it was much the same. The biggest differences are:

* The CL system has 'active' restarts, where the ZL system had a passive thing where you returned a value to the case context and hoped that it would do the thing you wanted. It felt quite a bit more error-prone (if you'll pardon the reuse of 'error' here, maybe I should say 'mistake-prone').

* The ZL condition system offers a lot of really low-level stuff that did not seem proper for CL.

* The set of operations offered in ZL was richer, but also a lot more complicated, I thought, and I worried people would not really see what it was trying to do.

* Obviously, the ZL system was based on Flavors, not CLOS, and made reference to a lot of LispM-specific packages.

* The document was published in January, 1983 and identifies itself as part of Symbolics Release 4.0.

There are other differences as well.

#Zetalisp #LispMachine #LispMachines #Symbolics #LispM
#ConditionHandling #ConditionSystem #ErrorSystem #ErrorHandling #CommonLisp #CL #Flavors #CLOS #History #ComputerHistory
#InternetArchive #Bitsavers

@screwlisp

You can pick up the document 'Signalling and Handling Conditions' from this index page:

http://nhplace.com/kent/ZL/

It was longer than I thought it would be, but I think you'll find it interesting to see what the Zetalisp condition system (which inspired the Common Lisp condition system) looked like.

In spirit, it was much the same. The biggest differences are:

* The CL system has 'active' restarts, where the ZL system had a passive thing where you returned a value to the case context and hoped that it would do the thing you wanted. It felt quite a bit more error-prone (if you'll pardon the reuse of 'error' here, maybe I should say 'mistake-prone').

* The ZL condition system offers a lot of really low-level stuff that did not seem proper for CL.

* The set of operations offered in ZL was richer, but also a lot more complicated, I thought, and I worried people would not really see what it was trying to do.

* Obviously, the ZL system was based on Flavors, not CLOS, and made reference to a lot of LispM-specific packages.

* The document was published in January, 1983 and identifies itself as part of Symbolics Release 4.0.

There are other differences as well.

#Zetalisp #LispMachine #LispMachines #Symbolics #LispM
#ConditionHandling #ConditionSystem #ErrorSystem #ErrorHandling #CommonLisp #CL #Flavors #CLOS #History #ComputerHistory
#InternetArchive #Bitsavers

@screwlisp

You can pick up the document 'Signalling and Handling Conditions' from this index page:

http://nhplace.com/kent/ZL/

It was longer than I thought it would be, but I think you'll find it interesting to see what the Zetalisp condition system (which inspired the Common Lisp condition system) looked like.

In spirit, it was much the same. The biggest differences are:

* The CL system has 'active' restarts, where the ZL system had a passive thing where you returned a value to the case context and hoped that it would do the thing you wanted. It felt quite a bit more error-prone (if you'll pardon the reuse of 'error' here, maybe I should say 'mistake-prone').

* The ZL condition system offers a lot of really low-level stuff that did not seem proper for CL.

* The set of operations offered in ZL was richer, but also a lot more complicated, I thought, and I worried people would not really see what it was trying to do.

* Obviously, the ZL system was based on Flavors, not CLOS, and made reference to a lot of LispM-specific packages.

* The document was published in January, 1983 and identifies itself as part of Symbolics Release 4.0.

There are other differences as well.

#Zetalisp #LispMachine #LispMachines #Symbolics #LispM
#ConditionHandling #ConditionSystem #ErrorSystem #ErrorHandling #CommonLisp #CL #Flavors #CLOS #History #ComputerHistory
#InternetArchive #Bitsavers

@screwlisp

You can pick up the document 'Signalling and Handling Conditions' from this index page:

http://nhplace.com/kent/ZL/

It was longer than I thought it would be, but I think you'll find it interesting to see what the Zetalisp condition system (which inspired the Common Lisp condition system) looked like.

In spirit, it was much the same. The biggest differences are:

* The CL system has 'active' restarts, where the ZL system had a passive thing where you returned a value to the case context and hoped that it would do the thing you wanted. It felt quite a bit more error-prone (if you'll pardon the reuse of 'error' here, maybe I should say 'mistake-prone').

* The ZL condition system offers a lot of really low-level stuff that did not seem proper for CL.

* The set of operations offered in ZL was richer, but also a lot more complicated, I thought, and I worried people would not really see what it was trying to do.

* Obviously, the ZL system was based on Flavors, not CLOS, and made reference to a lot of LispM-specific packages.

* The document was published in January, 1983 and identifies itself as part of Symbolics Release 4.0.

There are other differences as well.

#Zetalisp #LispMachine #LispMachines #Symbolics #LispM
#ConditionHandling #ConditionSystem #ErrorSystem #ErrorHandling #CommonLisp #CL #Flavors #CLOS #History #ComputerHistory
#InternetArchive #Bitsavers

@screwlisp

You can pick up the document 'Signalling and Handling Conditions' from this index page:

http://nhplace.com/kent/ZL/

It was longer than I thought it would be, but I think you'll find it interesting to see what the Zetalisp condition system (which inspired the Common Lisp condition system) looked like.

In spirit, it was much the same. The biggest differences are:

* The CL system has 'active' restarts, where the ZL system had a passive thing where you returned a value to the case context and hoped that it would do the thing you wanted. It felt quite a bit more error-prone (if you'll pardon the reuse of 'error' here, maybe I should say 'mistake-prone').

* The ZL condition system offers a lot of really low-level stuff that did not seem proper for CL.

* The set of operations offered in ZL was richer, but also a lot more complicated, I thought, and I worried people would not really see what it was trying to do.

* Obviously, the ZL system was based on Flavors, not CLOS, and made reference to a lot of LispM-specific packages.

* The document was published in January, 1983 and identifies itself as part of Symbolics Release 4.0.

There are other differences as well.

#Zetalisp #LispMachine #LispMachines #Symbolics #LispM
#ConditionHandling #ConditionSystem #ErrorSystem #ErrorHandling #CommonLisp #CL #Flavors #CLOS #History #ComputerHistory
#InternetArchive #Bitsavers

Any attempt to reimagine a (viable) #LispMachine would not just recreate what was, it would have to imagine what could've been and how lisp machines may have evolved since 1990s… eg: support for GUI, multitasking, WiFi, internet, World Wide Web, multi-gesture touchpads, touchscreens, multi-core cpus, 8 GB RAM, virtual machines, … just to name a few

This 1981 paper described an online help browser and authoring environment for TI or MIT Lisp Machines. The paper is interesting as it also briefly reviewed the state of online help systems at the time.

https://dl.acm.org/doi/abs/10.1145/1015579.810973

#retrocomputing #lisp #LispMachine

The #Telegram and #Matrix groups named #FamilyOfLisp are now synchronized (bridged):

🦎 https://telegram.me/FamilyOfLisp

🦎 https://matrix.to/#/#family-of-lisp:magdeburg.jetzt

The two groups are for friendly exchange and dialogue on topics related to the Family of #Lisp #programming languages.

🌺

🏷️ #Scheme #CommonLisp #Racket #Clojure #DylanLang #ELSConf #AMOP #CLOS #InterLisp #OpenGenera #LispMachine #Medley #ConnectionMachine #Symbolics #AutoLisp #MacLisp #ZetaLisp #EuLisp #ISLisp #CLHS #SICP #AIMA #CLtL2 #PAIP #HTDP

The #Telegram and #Matrix groups named #FamilyOfLisp are now synchronized (bridged):

🦎 https://telegram.me/FamilyOfLisp

🦎 https://matrix.to/#/#family-of-lisp:magdeburg.jetzt

The two groups are for friendly exchange and dialogue on topics related to the Family of #Lisp #programming languages.

🌺

🏷️ #Scheme #CommonLisp #Racket #Clojure #DylanLang #ELSConf #AMOP #CLOS #InterLisp #OpenGenera #LispMachine #Medley #ConnectionMachine #Symbolics #AutoLisp #MacLisp #ZetaLisp #EuLisp #ISLisp #CLHS #SICP #AIMA #CLtL2 #PAIP #HTDP

The #Telegram and #Matrix groups named #FamilyOfLisp are now synchronized (bridged):

🦎 https://telegram.me/FamilyOfLisp

🦎 https://matrix.to/#/#family-of-lisp:magdeburg.jetzt

The two groups are for friendly exchange and dialogue on topics related to the Family of #Lisp #programming languages.

🌺

🏷️ #Scheme #CommonLisp #Racket #Clojure #DylanLang #ELSConf #AMOP #CLOS #InterLisp #OpenGenera #LispMachine #Medley #ConnectionMachine #Symbolics #AutoLisp #MacLisp #ZetaLisp #EuLisp #ISLisp #CLHS #SICP #AIMA #CLtL2 #PAIP #HTDP

If you would like to come over to a friendly group on Telegram focused on the programming languages in the #FamilyOfLisp — please feel welcomed to join!

We are here:

→ https://t.me/FamilyOfLisp 🦎

🌺

🏷️ #Lisp #Scheme #CommonLisp #Racket #InterLisp #Clojure #BaLindaLisp #Hy #ELSConf #ZetaLisp #LispMachine #ConnectionMachine #ThinkingMachines #Emacs #AutoLisp #CLOS #AMOP #SICP #CLtL2 #PAIP #AIMA #PCL #Symbolics #Genera #DylanLang #LFE #ISLisp #Arc #Janet #Jank #OnLisp #HTDP #CLHS #EuLisp

@rml

And said #portable / #smartphone should use #asynchronous (#SelfTimed) integrated circuites whereever possible for #resource #efficiency. :)

🌺

🦎 https://telegram.me/FamilyOfLisp

🏷️ #Lisp #Scheme #Emacs #LispMachine #ELSConf

@screwlisp Thought you would be interested in this.

On the ex-Symbolics employees mailing list somebody posted a link to a "history of the Lisp machine".

https://youtu.be/sV7C6Ezl35A?si=S4uh4-JXKC2_7lOR

It's kind of long and so I didn't watch the whole thing, but just skipped around a little bit. Somebody else who did watch it said,

'Fascinating exposition. Given his mispronunciations of "CADR" and "Macsyma", it's clear that he wasn't in the room where it happened, nor spoke to anyone who was. But I can't quarrel with his research or cause-and-effect analysis of both the industry as a whole and Symbolics in particular.'

#symbolics #lispMachine

The document preparation system of Symbolics Lisp Machines consisted of two main hypertext tools, the Concordia authoring environment and the Document Examiner documentation browser and delivery interface. These papers describe the tools.

Supporting Document Development with Concordia
https://archive.org/details/smbx-concordia-paper-1988

Document Examiner: delivery interface for hypertext documents
https://dl.acm.org/doi/abs/10.1145/317426.317448

#LispMachine #symbolics #lisp #retrocomputing

@a_cubed @cstross

Back in the 1980s, when my then-office-mate was developing the Japanese product for the Symbolics lisp machine, we had an electronic version of this.

It was a big pad, about 50cm x 50cm, with a stylus to pick out individual characters. This was for kanji; the hiragana and katakana were handled separately.

To watch him use it was amazing... and slow.

#lispm
#lispmachine
#genera
#symbolics

Symbolics lisp machine demo 1990

#lisp #lispmachine #symbolics #genera #graphics #DigitalArt

https://youtu.be/RQKlgza_HgE?si=75zr9CWw_D0dA80-

Inheritance

#unix_surrealism #technomage #fosschild #openblade #comic #openbsd #lisp #lispmachine #ai

bullshitting AI

#unix_surrealism #comic #openblade #ai #technomage #lispmachine

Prehistoric AI, OpenBlade's relative

#unix_surrealism #lispmachine #openblade #openbsd #technomage #comic

@lispnik @lojikil @anticomputer

By ›the thick blue book‹, do you mean ›Lisp Lore‹?

→ https://t.me/FamilyOfLisp/389

🌺

🏷️ #LispMachine #InterLisp #LispLore #ISLisp #CommonLisp #Picolisp

#lisp #commonlisp #lispworks #symbolics #lispmachine

Made the KR frame system from the UIMS Garnet for two Common Lisp implementations work: LispWorks 8 and Portable Genera. I used this version: https://github.com/ury-marshak/kr

Typical problem porting code:: the initial value for structure slots is undefined in CL. The code assumes NIL.

Attached a screenshot of the KR examples in Portable Genera, a Virtual Lisp Machine on an Apple Mac mini with M4 Pro.

@amoroso #symbolics #genera naturally also has graph drawing features. Attached screenshot shows a simple example. In the Listener (-> #lisp #repl) I define a new command Show Flavor Tree. It displays the inherited Flavors. Flavors are early classes on the #lispmachine. The Listener is also a drawing plane. The command takes the name of a flavor class, then calls the graph formatter with arguments. PRESENT-FLAVOR prints the flavor and makes it mouse sensitive.

#lisp #commonlisp #lispmachine #genera

Then checking the list of compiler warnings, using the Zmacs command „Edit Compiler Warnings“.

#lisp #commonlisp #lispmachine #genera

Compiling the ALEXANDRIA library on a Lisp Machine, actually using ASDF.

@amoroso #lisp #commonlisp #lispmachine #symbolics #genera
2) I've compiled the LOOP alternative ITERATE (written by Jonathan Amsterdam) on the VLM. It actually works. ITERATE has even more features than LOOP, but uses a more Lisp-like syntax.

In the right X11 window there is a Zmacs and a Lisp Listener. The left X11 window is from the same VLM, but displays the documentation browser in its own X11 window. The documentation content comes from another VLM.

@amoroso
#lisp #commonlisp #lispmachine #symbolics #genera
1) Thanks, I just updated my Genera to the latest release 9.0.6. The installation is slightly unusual. It's a virtual lisp machine (VLM), here running on a Mac with an M1 Pro cpu. UI is via X11, using the XQuartz application. The VLM talks to another VLM on the network, which provides various server functionality. But it also has its own file system, which is actually a Lisp Machine File System (LMFS). -> 2)

@amoroso #genera #lispmachine #lisp #commonlisp

Same for Symbolics Genera:

#lisp #lispmachine #symbolics #genera #pascal #niklauswirth Niklaus Wirth's PASCAL made it to unusual systems: Here is a screenshot of a Lisp Machine, browsing the original Pascal User Manual and Report, but in a hypertext browser, with a PASCAL implementation loaded...

new from David:

LilyGO T-Deck uLisp Machine

http://www.ulisp.com/show?4JAO

#lisp #ulisp #lispmachine #commonlisp

Tim Bradshaw discusses the myths around Lisp Machines and why they were probably never competitive.

https://www.tfeb.org/fragments/2025/11/18/the-lost-cause-of-the-lisp-machines

#LispMachine #retrocomputing #lisp

The Lambda Papers: When LISP Got Turned Into a Microprocessor https://hackaday.com/2025/10/20/the-lambda-papers-when-lisp-got-turned-into-a-microprocessor/ #ArtificialIntelligence #Lispmachine #commonlisp #History #lisp

The Lambda Papers: When LISP Got Turned Into a Microprocessor - The physical layout of the SCHEME-78 LISP-based microprocessor by Steele and Sussm... - https://hackaday.com/2025/10/20/the-lambda-papers-when-lisp-got-turned-into-a-microprocessor/ #artificialintelligence #lispmachine #commonlisp #history #lisp

In the 1980s some Xerox Lisp Machines came with an IBM PC/XT expansion card that allowed running MS-DOS software from the Interlisp-D environment, like the black window of a spreadsheet program at the bottom left. This screenshot is from a flyer of the Xerox 1186 AI workstation.

https://groups.google.com/g/lispcore/c/aCC34TmRSmc/m/KQwufgfABQAJ

#interlisp #msdos #LispMachine #retrocomputing

@demiguru

As far as I know, in Lisp Machine, the entire software, from the operating system into user applications are all available as gigantic Lisp functions.

We can use the functions in our code. We can also edit the code, even the code of the program we are currently running, save the code, then reload it.

Yes, the operating system itself can be edited, saved and reloaded.

But it is different with Emacs. It is basically an elisp interpreter with some functionalities to aid text editing. These two are all C code.

They cannot be edited, saved and reload.

Emacs in Unix possibly is different with Emacs (EINE, ZWEINE) on Lisp Machine.

#GNUEmacs #Emacs #LispMachine

@crandel @alerque @Zenie @weavejester

@simon_brooke

GNU Emacs as a Lisp Machine surely is very nice. But Daniel Weinreb himself disagree with that.

Is it possible that Emacs is only Lisp Machine in spirit only?

Here is the link: https://web.archive.org/web/20250427073638/http://xahlee.info/emacs/misc/Daniel_Weinreb_rebuttal_to_rms.html

Note: on the debate about the original creator of Emacs, whether it is David Moon & Guy Steele or Richard Stallman, I am completely neutral.

Edit: I have ever heard somewhere that Maxima is quite similar with GNU Emacs. At the core of Maxima is an implementation of Common Lisp. Maxima is just sitting on top of the Common Lisp.

#GNUEmacs #Emacs #LispMachine #Symbolic #LMI #RMS #DavidMoon #Maxima #CommonLisp

@demiguru @Zenie @weavejester

It's 1986 and you want to use Interlisp-D on your Xerox workstation. This primer will get you up to speed with booting a Lisp image, handling floppy disks, using the mouse, transferring files to a VAX, and interacting with the environment. Some of the material is obsolete but gives an idea of what it was like to use a Lisp Machine in the 1980s.

http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/xerox/interlisp-d/198510_Koto/3102300_Interlisp-D_A_Friendly_Primer_Nov86.pdf

#interlisp #retrocomputing #LispMachine

@CharlieMcHenry

Shades of Lisp Machines.

#Python #Lisp #LispMachine

Android #Emacs 31.0.50 / Termux screencast, running Phel #lisp #PHP web application in localhost for development: https://nc.contabo-storage-1.lti.la/s/JzRSfFo6L6GADkt #unix #lispmachine

@keyboards @NanoRaptor #LispMachine #Apple

#symbolics #macivory 2 #lispmachine #lisp 40bit Lisp CPU

@kbob @WillFlux people will offer you a lot of kidneys for such a Space-Cadet Keyboard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space-cadet_keyboard

#lisp #lispmachine #keyboard

So how cool is this. I have been reading a lot about the #lispmachine, but I never attempted to get an instance running on my GNU/Linux system. Thanks to @amszmidt this is really absolutely trivial: Clone the fossil repo and type "./m -s". And it works, I get a Y2K compliant instance! 🙏 🧙

https://tumbleweed.nu/r/l/doc/trunk/README.md

1/2

@dcbrock

Regarding your tweet

🧷 https://twitter.com/dcbrock/status/1422574574768640010

Does this ⬇️ anecdotal report by #AlanKay shed some light on the similarity?

🧷 (Quora) https://qr.ae/pGDJb6

See also

🦎 https://telegram.me/FamilyOfLisp/538

🌺

🏷️ #LispMachine #MITAILab #Apple #AppleMac #MITCADR #SteveJobs #Scheme #Lisp #CommonLisp #XeroxAlto #XeroxParc #Notetaker #Smalltalk #AdeleGoldberg #DanIngalls #LarryTesler #AppleLisa #Interlisp #XeroxDorado #XeroxDolphin #XeroxDandelion

I expected better from Cameron Kaiser of all people than being a self-described “anti-capper.”

If you have old computers, you need to ensure the electrolytic capacitors aren’t leaking and destroying them. This is preventative maintenance, and unless you’re really getting directly under the capacitor when inspecting a system, you can’t tell if it’s leaking—it may still be performing its function sufficiently while slowly eating away at traces.

#retrocomputing #lispmachine #lispm

1994 Indiana U., Robert G. Berger: “The Scheme Machine”

This paper describes the design and implementation of the Scheme Machine, a symbolic computer derived from an abstract Scheme interpreter. The derivation is performed in several transformation passes. First, the interpreter is factored into a compiler and an abstract CPU. Next, the CPU specification is refined so that it can be used with the Digital Design Derivation system. Finally, the DDD system assists in the transformation into hardware. The resulting CPU, implemented in field programmable gate arrays and PALs, is interfaced to a garbage-collecting heap to form a complete Scheme system.

#Scheme #SchemeLang #LispM #LispMachine

#lisp #lispm #lispmachine

An early MIT CADR Lisp Machine was recently sold at an auction for $40,320 :

https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/firsts-history-computing-paul-g-allen-collection/cadr-lisp-machine-138/230076

@amszmidt

No clue.

I did use CADR lisp machines*, but I am not sure I ever used the remote debugger. I don't think I did.

I can speculate a little, but I emphasize that I know exactly zero about this and am just completely guessing.

The form of the text is like that of an FTP or HTTP response code: a three-digit code and some other text that perhaps doesn't matter. If it's related to that, 105 is in the 1xx range, which is informational. FOOBAR in that case may just be someone inserting non-null text for something that had no specific better text.

Searching an early draft of the LispM manual (suitable for CADR) at http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/mit/cadr/Weinreb_Moon-Lisp_Machine_Manual_Jan_1979.pdf for "105 foobar" does reveal a match, but it's in the description of si:lisp-top-level1, where it says:

«Preliminary Lisp Machine Manual, page 267, The Lisp Top Level:

si:lisp-top-level1
This is the actual top level loop. It prints out ·"105 FOOBAR" and then goes into a
loop reading a form from standard-input. evaluating it. and printing the result
(with slashification) to standard-output. If several values are returned by the form
all of them will be printed. Also the values of *, +, and - are maintained (see
below).»

Based on all of this, I'm reaching even further but wondering if perhaps someone wanted to use the informational output of the si:lisp-top-level1 command having been successfully invoked as input on the other end of some pipe saying to go ahead and start a debugger session.

As I said, just a wild guess. I could be VERY wrong. :)

#LispM #LispMachine

*I used the CADR lisp machines at MIT in the early 1980s as part of the programmer's Apprentice project, where I named machine Avatar (long before the movie, more inspired on a theme akin to the Sorcerer's Apprentice) and at the Open University (summer 1984, I think) in Milton Keynes, UK, where I named my machine Alan Turing.

(Cadrs were hand-built machines, as I recall, so they were each much more like individuals and their naming was much more important than machines that were mass produced.)

The name Turing was chosen for the machine at the OU because of the building we were in, which was referred to as "Turing's hut". It was said to be a temporary building erected in World War II where Turing did his work. (This was long after WWII, but MIT also had "temporary" buildings built for the war that survived much longer.) I've more recently struggled to reconcile the claim that Turing worked in that building against the information in the movie The Imitation Game, which puts Turing's work in Bletchley Park, but the OU is not far from Bletchley Park, so there's probably some element of truth in one or the other. In that time (mid 1980s), Turing's contribution was more obscure and no one really questioned such details. It was just nerdy trivia.

#Turing

#lisp #lispmachine #lispm #symbolics
A Graphics Editor on a Lisp Machine, changing the attributes of a circle.

@alchemist
many of us ! In particular I have been awed by @surabax 's recent toot series on symbolics era #lispMachine stuff, who is working on launching #lispIreland https://lisp.ie (WIP) monthly broadcasted talks as well.

@amszmidt for #lispm #MITCADR , @amoroso for #interlisp
as well are centrepoints for me here.