#mitra — Public Fediverse posts
Live and recent posts from across the Fediverse tagged #mitra, aggregated by home.social.
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NOTE: This is a repost from the Fediverse-City Matrix Room.
I meant to post on the progress that @toddsundsted has been making on kristec.
You can also checkout this ambitious project itself at:
https://github.com/toddsundsted/ktistec
I've been thoroughly impressed with all of the publishing features of his Fediverse server.
Some of the shortcomings, if that's how you choose to view them, might be that it's essentially a smolweb server leveraging noSQL and an accounts database that trusts all users as literal admins.
But if you're looking to self-host, and your primary interest is in publishing your own material on the #Fediverse, then this may be just the thing you've been looking for.
I cannot atest to the veracity of his claims because I haven't actually installed or tested its capabilities, but it's indeed a laundry list of features I've been hoping to see - leaving that Twitter style cloning of communications in the past, like I've been hoping for.
So for those interested, if you're impressed with the capabilities that #PieFed and #Mitra and #Socialhome bring to the table then here's a fourth initiative that is both visionary and inciteful in it's ambitions.
Your thoughts, observations?
#tallship #FOSS #kristec #Star_Trek #Fediverse #ActivyPub #publishing
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NOTE: This is a repost from the Fediverse-City Matrix Room.
I meant to post on the progress that @toddsundsted has been making on kristec.
You can also checkout this ambitious project itself at:
https://github.com/toddsundsted/ktistec
I've been thoroughly impressed with all of the publishing features of his Fediverse server.
Some of the shortcomings, if that's how you choose to view them, might be that it's essentially a smolweb server leveraging noSQL and an accounts database that trusts all users as literal admins.
But if you're looking to self-host, and your primary interest is in publishing your own material on the #Fediverse, then this may be just the thing you've been looking for.
I cannot atest to the veracity of his claims because I haven't actually installed or tested its capabilities, but it's indeed a laundry list of features I've been hoping to see - leaving that Twitter style cloning of communications in the past, like I've been hoping for.
So for those interested, if you're impressed with the capabilities that #PieFed and #Mitra and #Socialhome bring to the table then here's a fourth initiative that is both visionary and inciteful in it's ambitions.
Your thoughts, observations?
#tallship #FOSS #kristec #Star_Trek #Fediverse #ActivyPub #publishing
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NOTE: This is a repost from the Fediverse-City Matrix Room.
I meant to post on the progress that @toddsundsted has been making on kristec.
You can also checkout this ambitious project itself at:
https://github.com/toddsundsted/ktistec
I've been thoroughly impressed with all of the publishing features of his Fediverse server.
Some of the shortcomings, if that's how you choose to view them, might be that it's essentially a smolweb server leveraging noSQL and an accounts database that trusts all users as literal admins.
But if you're looking to self-host, and your primary interest is in publishing your own material on the #Fediverse, then this may be just the thing you've been looking for.
I cannot atest to the veracity of his claims because I haven't actually installed or tested its capabilities, but it's indeed a laundry list of features I've been hoping to see - leaving that Twitter style cloning of communications in the past, like I've been hoping for.
So for those interested, if you're impressed with the capabilities that #PieFed and #Mitra and #Socialhome bring to the table then here's a fourth initiative that is both visionary and inciteful in it's ambitions.
Your thoughts, observations?
#tallship #FOSS #kristec #Star_Trek #Fediverse #ActivyPub #publishing
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The pattern of fungible digital infrastructure really is quite interesting.
By that I mean relays in Nostr & #DeltaChat and transport neutrality like #Mitra Mini & Manyverse.
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@silverpill Probably someone who is very staunchly opposed to blockchains, crypto and NFTs...
...vs earlier Mitra that openly advertised exactly that stuff as its own future.
To be honest, I'm not too fond of these three either.
#FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Mitra -
@ValorZard No dice.
First of all, implementing nomadic identity would drastically alter the way how Mastodon works. It would make Mastodon, something that's supposed to be dead-simple, a great deal more complex.
I mean, in order to really pull this through all the way (as in Hubzilla/(streams)/Forte-level nomadic identity), your identity, your posts, your followers, your followed, your settings, your filters, your everything, all this must no longer directly reside in your account. It must be containerised in something that Hubzilla calls "channel", and that container would then reside in your account and be able to reside in multiple accounts on multiple independent servers.
Next, when Mastodon introduces a new feature, they tend to try to market it as their own original pioneering invention. They can't do that with nomadic identity. There are already enough people who know that nomadic identity was actually pioneered by Hubzilla before Mastodon even existed.
Furthermore, before Gargron implements something invented by Mike Macgirvin, hell will freeze over. Even if he tried to sell it as a unique feature of Mastodon, he'd still secretly have to admit that there's something that Mike did right. And quite a few eyes would be on him in hope of Mastodon getting more features from stuff created by Mike.
Ever heard of OpenWebAuth magic sign-on? Invented by Mike for Osada and Zap in the late 2010s, then backported to Hubzilla.
It was proposed for Mastodon, even if it was only client-side (as in, Mastodon logins would be detected by Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte, but Mastodon wouldn't be able to detect OpenWebAuth logins itself). This went as far as a merge request on GitHub. It could have been built into Mastodon. The code was literally there.
The merge request was silently rejected. And that would have been a fairly small change in comparison to the complete rebuild that'd be necessary for a full-blown, Forte-level, server-side implementation of nomadic identity.
I mean, @silverpill had to implement nomadic identity on Mitra client-side. That wouldn't be possible on Mastodon, what with every other Fediverse app being a Mastodon client. Mastodon would require a server-side implementation.
Seriously, it'd be easier to strap Mastodon's Web UI to Forte or Hubzilla with the necessary changes to adapt it to a vastly different backend.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Mastodon #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Mitra #FEP_ef61 #NomadicIdentity -
RE: https://mstdn.feddit.social/@admin/116238002709227102
Tried all 4 ways to register/login on Mitra:
#0 CLI (admin account @Jay)
Register: docker exec -it mitra-mitra-1 mitra create-account Username Password admin
Login: Username + Password#1 Password
Register: Username + Password + invite-code
Login: Username + Password#2 Ethereum @[email protected]
Register: Username + Ethereum wallet (Sign-In with Ethereum) + invite-code
Login: Wallet signature
I used SafePal browser extension wallet.#3 Monero @mitra
Register: Username + Monero Address + Signature + invite-code
Login: Monero Address + Signature (re-sign on every login)Sign messages via Feather: Tools → Sign/Verify Messages
https://featherwallet.org
Running my own Monerod node:
RPC | node.moe.pub:18081 | query interface for light wallet users
P2P | node.moe.pub:18080 | sync between Monerod nodes#Mitra #Crypto #Ethereum #Monero #Monerod #Feather #Signature #Web3 #Fediverse #P2P #SafePal
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尝试完了Mitra的4种注册登录
第0种：Cli：@jay (主号)
注册：docker exec -it mitra-mitra-1 mitra create-account Username Password admin
登录：Username+Password第1种：Password：🈚️
docker exec mitra-mitra-1 mitra generate-invite-code
注册：Username+Password+invite-code
登录：Username+Password第2种：Ethereum：@[email protected]
docker exec mitra-mitra-1 mitra generate-invite-code
注册：Username+支持Sign With Ethereum的插件钱包+invite-code
登录：插件钱包
我使用的是Safepal插件钱包第3种：Monero：@mitra
docker exec mitra-mitra-1 mitra generate-invite-code
注册：Username+Monero Address+Signature+invite-code
登录：Monero Address+Signature
生成Signature需要Monero轻钱包软件，我使用的是Feather:Tools——sign/verify messages
Feather：https://featherwallet.org ，我同步使用的是自建的Monerod：
RPC｜node.moe.pub:18081｜轻钱包用户查询接口
P2P｜node.moe.pub:18080｜其他Monerod节点间同步#Mitra #Crypto #Ethereum #Monerod #Feather #Signature #Web3 #Fediverse #P2P #SafePal
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@洪 民憙 (Hong Minhee) :nonbinary: Two people you may consider consulting in this case:
- @Mike Macgirvin ?️. He invented nomadic identity in 2011. He was the first to implement it in Red (which became Hubzilla in 2015) in 2012.
His streams repository, a fork of a fork of three forks of a fork (of a fork?) of Hubzilla, is the place where he laid the foundations of FEP-ef61 out of necessity because he was working on nomadic identity via ActivityPub (Hubzilla and (streams) use their own protocols for that), and it was the first nomadic server software that had it implemented.
Also, his Forte, itself a fork of the streams repository, is the only Fediverse server software that uses nothing but ActivityPub to establish nomadic identity and relies on FEP-ef61 to do that. Basically, it's (streams) with no Nomad and Zot6 support, and syncing between clones is triggered by a cronjob because, unlike Zot6 and Nomad, ActivityPub doesn't provide any ways to trigger immediate, near-real-time syncs.
Mike hasn't been caught online for quite a while, though, although he's still working on both (streams) and Forte. - @silverpill is gradually turning Mitra from a typical non-nomadic, account/login-equals-identity, one-identity-per-account Fediverse software into something that's every bit as nomadic as Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte while casting everything necessary for this process into FEPs.
I'm not sure whether this will include containerising identities like the channels on Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte and allowing multiple fully independent identities on the same account, just like the same identity (channel) would be able to exist on independent accounts on different servers.
That said, is your goal only to use FEP-ef61 for identities that are tied to their accounts and their servers? Or is your goal fully-fledged nomadic identity on the same level as on Forte?
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Mitra #NomadicIdentity #FEP_ef61 - @Mike Macgirvin ?️. He invented nomadic identity in 2011. He was the first to implement it in Red (which became Hubzilla in 2015) in 2012.
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@Robert Frank Wenn man selbst nur Mastodon nutzt, fühlt es sich piepschnurzegal an. Dann nimmt man eh das ganze Fediverse als nur Mastodon wahr und die Unterschiede zwischen Mastodon und Nicht-Mastodon fast überhaupt nicht.
Wenn man selbst aber etwas ganz anderes im Fediverse nutzt als Mastodon, dann ist es immens wichtig.
Ich selbst bin nicht auf Mastodon. Ich bin auf Hubzilla (https://hubzilla.org, https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubzilla, https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/0a75de76-eb27-4149-b708-f20b2f79d392). Das funktioniert völlig anders als Mastodon, das hat ein völlig anderes Konzept als Mastodon, das wird von Mastodon völlig unabhängig entwickelt. Es hat Features, die auf Mastodon unvorstellbar sind. Noch dazu ist es zehn Monate älter als Mastodon. Es geht sogar zurück auf Friendica, das mehr als fünfeinhalb Jahre älter ist als Mastodon.
Aber wie du mit eigenen Augen sehen kannst, kann ich Mastodon-Tröts nicht nur empfangen, sondern auch von Hubzilla aus kommentieren.
Wenn jemand das komplette Fediverse meint, es aber "Mastodon" nennt, dann meint er mich zwar damit, spricht mich aber nicht an. Ich bin ja nicht auf Mastodon.
Wenn jemand einen meiner Posts oder Kommentare als "Tröt" bezeichnet in der Annahme, ich sei auch auf Mastodon, dann ist beides sachlich falsch.
Wenn jemand sich wünscht, "das Fediverse" möge endlich ein bestimmtes Feature einführen, nur weil Mastodon es nicht hat, dann kann ich mir nur vor den Kopf schlagen. In den allermeisten Fällen hat Hubzilla genau dieses Feature schon zehn Monate länger, als es Mastodon überhaupt gibt. Sehr häufig hat Friendica dieses Feature schon etliche Jahre länger, als es Mastodon überhaupt gibt. Das Fediverse hat dieses Feature also. Mastodon hat es nicht, aber das Fediverse hat es.
Wenn jemand dagegen ist, daß "das Fediverse" ein bestimmtes Feature einführt, dem sei gesagt: Höchstwahrscheinlich hat das Fediverse dieses Feature schon. Mastodon nicht, aber das Fediverse. Denn höchstwahrscheinlich hatten Friendica und Hubzilla es schon immer, also auch wieder länger, als es Mastodon überhaupt gibt.
Am besten war noch der Widerstand gegen Quote-Posts. "Das Fediverse" sollte die auf gar keinen Fall einführen, sagten einige. Der Witz: Pleroma, Akkoma, Misskey, Calckey, Firefish, CherryPick, Sharkey, Iceshrimp, Catodon, GoToSocial, Mitra, Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams), Forte usw., sie alle haben Quote-Posts. Und zwar schon länger, als es diese Debatte auf Mastodon überhaupt gibt. Und sie alle (außer GoToSocial) können widerstandslos jeden, aber auch wirklich jeden Mastodon-Tröt quote-posten.
Oder damals der Widerstand gegen Volltextsuche. Auf gar keinen Fall sollte "das Fediverse" Volltextsuche haben. Nur hatte das Fediverse schon längst Volltextsuche: Friendica war schon im Mai 2010 mit eingebauter Volltextsuche an den Start gegangen.
Ach ja: Zeichenlimits. Wer "Mastodon" und "Fediverse" gleichsetzt, für den hat auch das Fediverse ein festgelegtes Limit von 500 Zeichen. Friendica und Hubzilla hatten aber nie wirklich Zeichenlimits. In deren Kultur kommen auch keine Zeichenlimits vor. Aktuell haben sie übrigens ein "Limit" von über 16,7 Millionen Zeichen. Bis auf Threads hat alles im Fediverse ein sehr viel höheres Zeichenlimit als Mastodon. Entsprechend kriegen Nicht-Mastodon-Nutzer ständig auf den Deckel, wenn sie das angeblich von Gargron für das ganze Fediverse festgeschriebene Limit von 500 Zeichen überschreiten.
Also: Das Fediverse ist nicht nur Mastodon. Das Fediverse war auch nie nur Mastodon. Das Fediverse ist nicht nur ein Twitter-Klon. Das Fediverse hat sehr viel mehr Features als Mastodon. Und das Fediverse hat auch nicht überall dieselbe Kultur und wird sie auch nie haben.
CC: @Knust @Katharina Nocun
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteTröt #QuoteTröts #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #Zeichenlimit #Zeichenlimits #ZeichenlimitMeta #CWZeichenlimitMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #NichtNurMastodon #Pleroma #Akkoma #Misskey #Calckey #Firefish #CherryPick #Sharkey #Iceshrimp #Catodon #GoToSocial #Mitra #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #MastodonZentrizität #MastodonNormativität -
@Strypey
That's a pretty major UX fail right there.
Any progress on finalising an FEP for using nomadic identity with AP?
I think it'll take more than that one FEP (FEP-ef61 Portable Objects) to do that. I expect @silverpill to whip up more FEPs in the on-going process of turning Mitra from something like most Fediverse software (non-nomadic, account equals identity) into something that's every bit as nomadic as Forte.
Thing is, Mitra still has a long way to go, also because it aims to have an implementation of nomadic identity that's entirely covered by FEPs. Forte has nomadic identity via ActivityPub, but that's technology adopted from Zot/Nomad that needed to be made to work first and foremost with no regards for FEPs.
Besides, the existence of FEPs doesn't matter as long as Mastodon refuses to adopt them. And Mastodon has already silently rejected client-side support for OpenWebAuth magic sign-on by refusing to merge an existing, ready-to-merge pull request that would have implemented it immediately.
This means we'll probably never even see Mastodon become capable of recognising nomadic channels. And I'm not talking about Mastodon going nomadic itself (which, by the way, would also give Mastodon the easy account moving that its users have been craving for for so long).
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Mastodon #Mitra #Forte #NomadicIdentity #FEP_ef61 -
I just saw the shutdown notice for K&T Host. I am sad to see them go, but thankful for the services they provided. Hosting apps like Lemmy and Mitra through them hugely boosted my spirit in becoming a hobbyist sysadmin. Thank you, K&T Host, and happy retirement! I hope everyone manages to move their data before the February 1, 2026, full shutdown.
https://weblog.kalvin.my/farewell-to-k-t-host-gratitude-for-the-sysadmin-journey/
#knthost #webhosting #hosting #sysadmin #hobbyist #lemmy #mitra #bookstack #gotosocial #fediverse #selfhosting #tech #farewell #retirement #humane_tech #community #grateful #digitalautonomy #service
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I just saw the shutdown notice for K&T Host. I am sad to see them go, but thankful for the services they provided. Hosting apps like Lemmy and Mitra through them hugely boosted my spirit in becoming a hobbyist sysadmin. Thank you, K&T Host, and happy retirement! I hope everyone manages to move their data before the February 1, 2026, full shutdown.
https://weblog.kalvin.my/farewell-to-k-t-host-gratitude-for-the-sysadmin-journey/
#knthost #webhosting #hosting #sysadmin #hobbyist #lemmy #mitra #bookstack #gotosocial #fediverse #selfhosting #tech #farewell #retirement #humane_tech #community #grateful #digitalautonomy #service
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CW: The various issues with quote-posts on Mastodon that nobody on Mastodon is aware of; CW: long (almost 6,800 characters), Fediverse meta, Fediverse-beyond-Mastodon meta, Mastodon looking bad in comparison with the rest of the Fediverse, quote-post meta
Okay, everyone, sit down. I'll tell you a few things about Mastodon's quote-post feature that you know nothing about. Definitely not if all you know is Mastodon. Oh, and by the way, in case you don't know yet in spite of following me: The Fediverse is not only Mastodon.Mastodon has been quote-post-able for as long as it has been around
Eugen Rochko is bringing quote-posts to Mastodon. But he is not bringing quote-posts to the Fediverse. The Fediverse has had quote-posts for 15 years.
It was Mike Macgirvin who introduced quote-posts to the Fediverse in July, 2010, when he launched something called Mistpark back then and Friendica today (https://friendi.ca, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendica). That was five and a half years before Mastodon was launched.
In fact, when Mastodon was launched, it immediately federated itself with Friendica and with Hubzilla, a fork of a fork of Friendica by Friendica's own creator which has quote-posts, too. So when Mastodon was launched, it immediately became possible to quote-post Mastodon toots. Not on Mastodon itself, but on Friendica and Hubzilla.Just about everything that isn't Mastodon has already got quote-posts right now
Here are a few (but not even all) Fediverse server applications that already have quote-posts:
And they're all part of the Fediverse which means that they're all connected to Mastodon. People on all of these can theoretically read your Mastodon toots. And people on all of these can theoretically quote-post your Mastodon toots.Mastodon's quote-post opt-in is not a water-tight defence against being quote-posted
So you can choose not to be quote-posted. But you can only choose not to be quote-posted by Mastodon users. This opt-in does not work with the rest of the Fediverse.
First of all, that's because Mastodon's quote-post feature is not compatible with anything else out there. Mastodon's developers have chosen to re-invent the quote-posting wheel from scratch. They've intentionally chosen to do so in a way that's completely incompatible with everything else out there.
Their intention was to reinforce Mastodon's appearance to its own users as the one and only Fediverse and ActivityPub gold standard and to make Pleroma, Akkoma, Misskey, Firefish, Iceshrimp, Sharkey, CherryPick, Catodon, Mitra, Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams), Forte etc. look broken. It's part of their plan to keep Mastodon users on Mastodon in the wake of Mastodon's market share in the Fediverse shrinking.
Also, they did not publish any specifications on their quote-post implementation, so even those non-Mastodon developers who are fast enough didn't have a chance to implement support for Mastodon's opt-in.
This means that even if you've set your posts to un-quote-post-able on Mastodon, everything I've listed above can still quote-post you with no resistance.Absolute Fediverse-wide protection against being quote-posted is impossible
And don't get your hopes high that the day will come when nobody on the Fediverse will be able to quote-post you, whether they're on Mastodon or not. Such a setting is technologically impossible.
Who says that? Mike Macgirvin says that. The guy who launched Friendica and brought quote-posts to the Fediverse 15 years ago, remember? This guy has built the Fediverse's most elaborate, most complex, most fine-grained, most advanced permissions system into (streams) and Forte.
These two have reply control, the kind of which you couldn't image in your wildest dreams. I'm serious. They have permissions settings for almost everything on two or three levels, for your whole channel, individually per contact and sometimes even per post or per file or folder in the file storage.
But they don't have quote-post permission settings. Because that's impossible to enforce Fediverse-wide. And even if it was possible, it'd be pointless. If they can't quote-post you, they'll copy-paste you. If they can't copy-paste you either because they're on a phone, they'll post screenshots of your toots.
Mike also says, there is exactly one way to keep people from quote-posting you, and that's by not posting in public. Unfortunately, unlike what he has created, Mastodon has little between "public" and "DM", if anything.Mastodon cannot quote-post the non-Mastodon Fediverse
This may be the big surprise: It has recently been discovered by chance that Mastodon's quote-post feature only works with Mastodon toots.
On the one hand, Pleroma, Akkoma, Misskey, Sharkey, Friendica, Hubzilla etc. can quote-post just about everything that comes in from Mastodon. But on the other hand, no Mastodon 4.5 user will be able to quote-post anything from either of these. Or from Pixelfed or PeerTube or Loops or Castopod or WriteFreely or whatever.
That's because Mastodon is looking for a quote-post opt-in. But nothing else in the Fediverse supports Mastodon's quote-post opt-in, also seeing as it's still officially in development. And it's highly unlikely that everything in the Fediverse will adopt another piece of non-standard, proprietary Mastodon tech."Quote" actually means something else
Lastly, Mastodon has the audacity to call this feature "quote".
A "quote" is something else. Remember forums? Like, bulletin-board forums with subforums and all? Where posts are quoted in follow-ups, entirely or only partially? That's what a quote is. That has got nothing to do with quote-posts.
Why I say that there's a difference? Because I also say that Friendica has had both quotes and quote-posts.
It has had them for 15 years, both quotes (which it calls "quotes", go figure) and quote-posts (which it calls "quoted shares", and which include the original author of the quoted post, complete with their profile picture and a clickable link to them, as well as a clickable link to the original post).
Hubzilla has both. (streams) has both. Forte has both. And I wouldn't be surprised if other Fediverse server software had both, too.
The irony is that Mastodon itself has been able to render actual quotes since version 4.0 from October, 2022. At the same time, it will continue to be unable to render any quote-posts done outside of Mastodon for the foreseeable future.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #Pleroma #Akkoma #Misskey #Forkey #Forkeys #Firefish #Iceshrimp #Sharkey #CherryPick #Catodon #Mitra #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares -
@Decenta Lyzed @your purple friend AFAIK, Mitra has not rolled out full-blown nomadic identity yet (as in, no, you can't clone your Mitra identity between two Mitra servers). Even the development branch is only in a state in which it understands nomadic identity.
As for what nomadic identity is: https://joinfediverse.wiki/Nomadic.identity
There are three Fediverse server applications where you're guaranteed to have solid, proven-to-work nomadic identity:- Hubzilla
Fork of fork of (non-nomadic) Friendica by Friendica's creator
2012/2015
https://hubzilla.org
https://en.wikipedia.org/Hubzilla
https://joinfediverse.wiki/Hubzilla
Server lists:
https://hubzilla.fediverse.observer/list
https://fedidb.com/software/hubzilla?version=latest®istration=open
No iOS apps
No Android apps
Can be installed as a Progressive Web App - (streams)
Fork of fork of three forks of fork (of fork?) of Hubzilla by the same creator
2021
Intentionally and officially no name, no brand, hence the parentheses around the unofficial name ("(streams)")
No official website
https://codeberg.org/streams/streams
Open-registration server in North America (USA):
https://rumbly.net/register
Open-registration server in Europe (Hungary, German admin, speaks German and English):
https://nomad.fedi-verse.hu/register
No iOS apps
No Android apps
Can be installed as a Progressive Web App - Forte
Fork of (streams) by the same creator
2024
No official website
https://codeberg.org/fortified/forte
No open-registration servers
No iOS apps
No Android apps
Can be installed as a Progressive Web App
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mitra #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #NomadicIdentity - Hubzilla
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@Ben Pate 🤘🏻
I've looked through FEP-ef61 in the past, and will give it another go. I think I struggled to see how this would be compatible with Mastodon, or other servers without them requiring a pretty big rewrite to support portable objects.
It won't. Especially not with Mastodon.
At the very least, they would have to start to understand portable objects and the concept of nomadic identity, e.g. that[email protected]and[email protected]may be on two different accounts, but the exact same channel with the exact same identity, the exact same connections, the exact same content etc.
Mastodon has been flipping the bird both at the ActivityPub standard and at FEPs and at the whole rest of the Fediverse since it was made. Eugen Rochko has been trying to EEE the Fediverse since he created Mastodon, the very same thing that people on Mastodon feared that Threads would do. The only time he ever makes compromises is when he is put under pressure by even more powerful players like Automattic or Flipboard, and even then he only throws them tiny bones.
As @Mike Macgirvin ?️ gradually built his nomadic and ActivityPub-based Forte from his own nomadic and Nomad-based streams repository (itself a Hubzilla descendant), and as @silverpill started making his non-nomadic and ActivityPub-based Mitra nomadic, their goal was to expand ActivityPub into something that supports nomadic identity via FEPs and, at the same time, make their own software compatible to these FEPs.
Their goal was not to make their software and these FEPs fully compatible with the Fediverse as it was in 2023/2024 and especially not to build them against Mastodon as it was in 2023/2024 or as it is now.
Especially Mike would never build anything explicitly against Mastodon. Rather, he'd make it possible to block Mastodon from an entire (streams) or Forte server, and he did. To Mike, Mastodon is not the heart and the core and the centre of the Fediverse around everything else orbits and justifiedly so. He rather sees it as a nuisance.
Seriously, nothing that Mike has created will ever be fully compatible with Mastodon, not as long as Mastodon's politics don't change greatly. I mean, client-side support for Mike's own OpenWebAuth magic sign-on was proposed for Mastodon. It went as far as an actual merge request in 2023. They core devs never even looked at that merge request, much less merged it. They silently rejected it.
@Contraquestão
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Mitra #NomadicIdentity #FEP_ef61 -
@silverpill Who are the longformers anyway?
They're those who either are commercial or looking for professional/commercial users or both. Flipboard. Automattic (WordPress). Ghost. These kinds.
They know themselves. They know each other. And they know Mastodon. And that's it.
None of them has ever heard of Pleroma or Akkoma.
None of them has ever heard of Misskey or the Forkeys.
None of them has ever heard of Mitra.
None of them has ever heard of GoToSocial.
None of them has ever heard of Hollo.
None of them has ever heard of Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) or Forte, even though Friendica and Hubzilla are both older than Mastodon. And apparently, neither has @Helge. But then again, Friendica and its nomadic, security-enhanced descendants are being overlooked by almost everyone. That's why there's always on-going work for features to be "introduced to the Fediverse" which Friendica has had for a decade and a half.
Granted, the HTML support on Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte can be summarised with "yes". But elaborate tables that show what either of them supports how would be very useful.
Also, granted, everything I've mentioned above (normally) uses something else than HTML for formatting in the frontend. For example, Misskey and all Forkeys use MFM ("Misskey-Flavoured Markdown"). Friendica uses extended BBcode with the option to use Markdown instead. Hubzilla uses even more extended BBcode. (streams) and Forte can use the same even more extended BBcode and Markdown and HTML at the same time within the same post, although not all markup languages support all features.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #Pleroma #Akkoma #Misskey #Forkey #Forkeys #Mitra #GoToSocial #Hollo #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #LongFormContent #BBcode #Markdown #HTML #TextFormatting -
@Osma A 🇫🇮🇺🇦 Once silverpill is done converting Mitra, we'll have both a hopefully full set of necessary FEPs and ideally a guide on how to make something non-nomadic nomadic. At least it will have been done once.
#FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #NomadicIdentity #Mitra -
@Marcus Rohrmoser 🌻 Not to my knowledge.
First of all, nomadic identity won't be described in one single FEP that'll cover everything. It was not created on and for ActivityPub. In fact, the concept predates ActivityPub by some six years, and the first implementation predates ActivityPub by some five years.
See, nomadic identity started as an idea. Then Mike built a brand-new protocol around that idea, Zot. Then, in 2012, Mike forked one of his own forks of his own software that is now known as Friendica, originally based on yet protocol designed by himself, and re-wrote the whole thing against Zot. That's how the software was born that's known as Hubzilla now.
As for nomadic identity via ActivityPub, there is only one publicly available software implementation for that. And that's Mike's own Forte. Forte still does everything the Hubzilla/(streams) way which is very very different from how anything else in the Fediverse works, even including Friendica itself, and especially including Mastodon.
Whereas Zot was designed around nomadic identity, ActivityPub isn't. It's having nomadic identity bolted on with a whole slew of FEPs authored by @silverpill who is working on converting Mitra (typical Fediverse software: built only against ActivityPub, non-nomadic, login/account equals identity) into something that's every bit as nomadic as Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte.
Nomadic identity via ActivityPub was originally silverpill's idea, by the way. And that was in 2023. It turned out that this was actually doable, and so he and Mike started working on it, using experimental "nomadic" branches of Mitra and the streams repository respectively. Their approaches were naturally different: silverpill had to make something non-nomadic nomadic. Mike had to make something nomadic be nomadic using a protocol that wasn't made for nomadic identity.
Not only is silverpill's approach much more difficult because Mitra wasn't made for nomadic identity either, but he also took it upon himself to put everything into FEPs by and by. He is still publishing FEP after FEP. Nomadic identity is quite a complex thing from a "Fediverse equals ActivityPub" point of view; it's just that the Hubzilla/(streams) bubble is so used to it whereas silverpill actually has to explore and research something that's natural to Mike.
There's no common set of commands either. There can't be any. Forte, like everything else in the family all the way back to Friendica, is written in PHP. Mitra is written in Rust. Nobody has ever attempted to make something not written in PHP nomadic.
In fact, code sharing would be next to impossible anyway: Forte, like Hubzilla and early Mistpark/Friendika, is published under the MIT license, (streams) is in the public domain, but Mitra is licensed under the GNU Affero GPL v3. Any code coming out of Mitra's conversion to nomadicity would be AGPL-licensed Rust code. And MIT-licensed PHP code that was created when turning Nomad-based (streams) into ActivityPub-based, Nomad-less Forte would be useless for non-nomadic-to-nomadic conversions anyway.
So don't expect any how-to's or the like for converting non-nomadic, ActivityPub-only-by-original-design, login/account-equals-identity Fediverse server software to the same level of nomadicity as Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte until- the first stable release of Mitra with full support for that level of nomadicity is officially rolled out
- silverpill declares that everything necessary for Hubzilla/(streams)/Forte-level nomadic identity via nothing but ActivityPub is cast into FEPs and finalised
Seeing as this has been in the making for some two years now, and I don't even know if the experimental nomadic branch of Mitra even allows cloning right now, I guess this will be a long way to go. He may actually first have to change Mitra from the standard Fediverse model of the account and the login being the identity to Hubzilla's, (streams)' and Forte's model of the identity being a container inside your account and one account being able to host multiple such identities. That's because you can't clone logins.
Oh, by the way, nomadic identity is not just about moving. It's not "moving-your-Mastodon-account-to-another-instance on coke". It's way more.
The core feature is cloning. Imagine you have full, live, hot backups of your Mastodon account on one, two, three, four or more other Mastodon instances. Imagine they all have the same identity, based on which one of them is your main instance. Imagine whatever happens on one of them is sync'd to the others in near-real-time. Imagine you can log into either of them and use either of them all the same, regardless of how many and which of the servers are actually online, as long as at least one is.
Moving is actually even more complex than cloning because it involves both cloning and changing the main instance of your identity.
Allow me to illustrate by supposing Mastodon works like Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte:- Situation:
- You have an account on digitalcourage.social with one channel,
[email protected]. - You want to move to troet.cafe.
- You have an account on digitalcourage.social with one channel,
- Step 1: You create an account on troet.cafe.
- Step 2: There can't be accounts with no channels. You have to add a channel.
So you choose to move your channel[email protected]from digitalcourage.social to troet.cafe. - Step 3: Your channel
[email protected]is cloned over to troet.cafe. - Situation now:
- You have an account on digitalcourage.social with the main instance of your channel; its identity is
[email protected]. - You have an account on troet.cafe with a clone of your channel; its identity is still
[email protected].
- You have an account on digitalcourage.social with the main instance of your channel; its identity is
- Step 4: All data on your channel is synchronised over from your main instance on digitalcourage.social to your clone on troet.cafe. Posts, images, other files, followers, followed, settings, lists, filters etc. etc. pp. Everything.
- Now the main instance and the clone are identical.
Up until here, the process of moving is the same as the process of cloning. What follow is exclusive to moving. - Step 5:
- The clone on troet.cafe is promoted to main instance.
- As there can be only one main instance for each channel, the former main instance on digitalcourage.social is demoted to clone.
- Situation now:
- You have an account on digitalcourage.social with a clone of your channel, formerly the main instance; its identity is
[email protected]. - You have an account on troet.cafe with the main instance of your channel, formerly a clone; its identity is
[email protected].
- You have an account on digitalcourage.social with a clone of your channel, formerly the main instance; its identity is
- Step 6: All your connections on servers of nomadic software are changed from
[email protected]to[email protected], both locally on the servers that you are on and locally on the servers that they are on. - Step 7 (AFAIK, this only happens on (streams) and Forte in reality): All your outbound connections ("followed") on servers running non-nomadic software receive a follow request from
[email protected]which, to them, is an all-new, independent identity. - The actually move is done. What follows is the clean-up that really makes the move a move, namely taking care that nothing is left behind in the old location.
- Step 8: When these last steps are finalised, your clone on digitalcourage.social is deleted. After all, you wanted to move, not to clone.
- Step 9: As your account on digitalcourage.social has no channel on it anymore, the whole account is deleted.
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@Ben Pate 🤘🏻
2) None of the solutions feel very approachable. Documentation is thin, and examples are hard to find. Beyond the text of FEP-ef61, where should I go if I want to start building support into my own apps?
There isn't much documentation because everything is still very new and also due to the nature of what has already been made with nomadic identity via ActivityPub on which base and which level of stability.
Yes, there's Forte. Yes, it uses ActivityPub for nomadic identity. Yes, it has a stable release.
But: It has never been an ActivityPub project that went nomadic.
It evolved from the Red Matrix (2012)- based on Zot
- channel system; identity independent of account/login
- nomadic
- some non-nomadic protocols available optionally, off by default
- based on Zot, evolved to Zot6
- channel system; identity independent of account/login
- nomadic
- some non-nomadic protocols available optionally, off by default
- ActivityPub added long after the fact, again, optional and off by default
- based on Zot6, Zot8 or (would be Zot11, but it's incompatible with Zot6, so it's renamed) Nomad
- channel system; identity independent of account/login
- nomadic
- fewer non-nomadic protocols available optionally, off by default, if any
- ActivityPub added into the core eventually
- based on Nomad
- channel system; identity independent of account/login
- nomadic
- ActivityPub in the core as a secondary protocol, optional, on by default
- all other non-nomadic protocols removed
- based on ActivityPub, supports nothing else
- channel system; identity independent of account/login
- nomadic
So Forte looks back at 13 years of multiple identities per account and nomadic identity. When Hubzilla became the first Fediverse server application to adopt ActivityPub in 2017, the family had already had nomadic identity for over four years.
Implementing nomadic identity via ActivityPub meant switching the whole thing away from a protocol that was built around nomadic identity and over to ActivityPub while keeping nomadic identity.
What you seem interested in is what @silverpill is working on on Mitra. And that's to take a non-nomadic, ActivityPub-only, account-equals-identity server application and make it nomadic.
AFAIK, this is still highly experimental. It's done in a development branch of Mitra. I know that Mitra understands Forte's nomadic identity, but I can't even say whether that dev branch of Mitra is actually nomadic, as in whether you can clone an identity on one server running the dev branch to another such server and have them sync back and forth.
If anything, this would be what ActivityPub devs looking at nomadic identity should check out. "Would" because it's still in such an early and experimental state that I think there isn't anything worth looking at yet other than how to make your software recognise Forte's nomadic channels as nomadic.
By the way, silverpill is publishing FEP after FEP in which Forte or Mitra, (streams) and Forte are mentioned as implementations at most. So he doesn't just code stuff together, he also tries hard to make it "official" by casting it into FEPs. So I guess he's still figuring out the basics and documenting them rather than getting actual nomadicity to work out of thin air.
You've basically got two options if you want to turn non-nomadic, ActivityPub-only, account-equals-identity software into something that's every bit as nomadic as Hubzilla, (streams) or Forte.
Either you wait until silverpill rolls out the first stable release of Mitra with full-blown nomadic identity of its own. And then there should be quite some documentation on how it was done.
Or you make an experimental nomadic branch of Bandwagon and join silverpill and @Mike Macgirvin ?️ in getting nomadic identity via ActivityPub going.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mitra #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #NomadicIdentity -
@Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸 The Mastodon devs are talking as if either the Fediverse is only Mastodon, or the Fediverse as a whole doesn't have quote-posts.
Neither of this is true. The Fediverse has had quote-posts since July 2nd, 2010 when Mistpark (now known as Friendica) was launched. Mastodon toots have been quote-post-able since Mastodon itself was launched, for when Mastodon was launched, it immediately federated with at least two Fediverse server applications that have quote-posts, namely Friendica and Hubzilla, a fork of a fork of Friendica by Friendica's own creator.
Nowadays, at least Pleroma, Akkoma, all other Pleroma forks, Misskey, Calckey, Firefish, Iceshrimp-JS, Iceshrimp.NET, CherryPick, Sharkey, all other Misskey forks, Mitra, Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte can quote-post Mastodon toots with no problem.
And Mastodon won't be able to stop them. No, seriously, it won't. Not with a non-standard, proprietary, home-brew opt-in or opt-out switch that doesn't tie into anything that the other Fediverse server apps have. And whatever switch Mastodon is working on will not tie into anything that already exists.
Let me put it this way: Hubzilla has the second-most advanced and fine-grained permissions system in the Fediverse. It goes well beyond most people's imagination. It works on three levels: for the whole channel (that's similar to a Mastodon account), for individual contacts (that's "followers" in Mastodon lingo, but Hubzilla doesn't distinguish between followers and followed), for individual content. (streams) and Forte are the only ones with an even more advanced and fine-grained permissions system.
But even they don't have a quote-post permission setting. And they have permission settings for just about everything. You want reply control in the Fediverse? Hubzilla has reply control, and (streams) and Forte have reply control on steroids. But what they don't have is a quote-posting permission because that's next to impossible to control across the Fediverse even with the most advanced permissions system.
As @Mike Macgirvin ?️ (professional software developer for almost half a century, designer of two Fediverse protocols, creator of Friendica and Hubzilla, inventor of nomadic identity, creator and maintainer of (streams) and Forte) says: The only way to make your posts un-quote-post-able is by not posting in public and not allowing everyone in the Fediverse full access to your posts. Set your "Who can quote" however you want, I'll always be able to quote-post all your public posts with no problem and with no resistance.
So what chance does Mastodon have then? Mastodon which doesn't even know what permissions are? Developed by Eugen Rochko who actually has a history of head-butting with Mike Macgirvin, and who would never take any step towards anything that Mike has ever developed?
I'm commenting from Hubzilla right now, and I'm also on (streams). And I can tell you: If you make any of your posts "un-quote-post-able", this still won't make my Share buttons on Hubzilla and (streams) disappear.
CC: @Stefan Bohacek @FinchHaven sfba
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #Pleroma #Akkoma #Misskey #Forkey #Forkeys #Calckey #Firefish #Iceshrimp #Iceshrimp.NET #CherryPick #Sharkey #Mitra #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotePostDebate #QuoteTootDebate -
@Fabrice Desré @TuxPhones :linux: Ackchually...
The AT protocol has yet to prove that its concept of portable identity works.
In the meantime, @silverpill (creator and maintainer of Mitra) has been working with @Mike Macgirvin 🖥️ (creator of a family tree of almost a dozen Fediverse server applications over a decade and a half, designer of two Fediverse protocols and inventor of nomadic identity as early as 2012) to implement nomadic identity in ActivityPub since 2023. Previously, nomadic identity required the Zot or Nomad protocol. (Oh, and yes, it actually works, and it's being daily-driven by many Hubzilla and (streams) users right now.)
In August, 2024, Mike launched Forte, his most recent creation and the first Fediverse server application to entirely rely upon ActivityPub for nomadic identity. Nomadic identity via ActivityPub has been reality ever since.
In March, 2025, Forte officially had its first stable release. So much about nomadic identity via ActivityPub being experimental. People are using it as their primary daily driver already.
Just because Mastodon doesn't have it, doesn't mean ActivityPub doesn't, or the Fediverse doesn't.
Unfortunately, I don't expect Mastodon to ever implement it. After all, the Mastodon devs have already practically rejected OpenWebAuth as well, another one of Mike's creations.
(This comment was brought to you by a nomadic Hubzilla channel with one clone.)
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #ActivityPub #Zot #Nomad #Mitra #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #NomadicIdentity -
@[email protected] по Дмитрию Горчеву подписчик это человек, Которому Всё Интересно. Согласись нелепо подписаться на кого-то и лишь раз в неделю получать от него пост с тегом #Токио (ошибочно полагая, что этим исчерпывается вся его активность), в то время как реплаях у него на других инстансах ЕЖЕДНЕВНО кипят срачи на тему какого цвета должны быть вибраторы у студенток и куда делся дедфуд после бана на хабре - да только вот беда в том, что реплаи эти подписчикам не высылаются (зачем же я тогда подписывался? 😢): мне показалось, что у #mitra есть баг, о чём я тебе и отрепортил.
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@Kellam⚙️Бур This may come as a surprise, but: Nomadic identity is not an abstract concept or a science-fiction idea for the Fediverse.
It is reality. It exists. Right now. In stable, daily-driver software that's federated with Mastodon. And it has been for over a decade.
I'm literally replying to you here from a nomadic channel that simultaneously exists on two servers.
Nomadic identity was invented by @Mike Macgirvin 🖥️ (formerly American software developer of about half a century who has been living in rural Australia for decades now) in 2011 and first implemented in 2012. Almost four years before Mastodon was first launched.
In 2010, he had invented the Facebook alternative Friendica, originally named Mistpark and based on his own DFRN protocol.
Over the months, he witnessed lots of privately operated public Friendica nodes shut down with or without an announcement and the users on these nodes lose everything. He added the possibility to export and import Friendica accounts. But that would only help if a permanent shutdown was announced. It did not protect you against shutdowns out of the blue.
There was only one solution to this problem. And that was for someone's identity to not be bound to one server, but to exist on multiple servers simultaneously. The whole thing with everything that's attached to it. Name, settings, connections, posts, files in the file storage etc. etc., everything.
So in 2011, Mike designed a whole new protocol named Zot around this brand-new idea of what he called "nomadic identity" back then already.
In 2012, Mike forked Friendica into something called Red, later the Red Matrix, and rebuilt the whole thing from the ground up against Zot. Red was the first nomadic social networking software in the world, almost four years before Mastodon.
In 2015, ten months before Mastodon was first released, the Red Matrix became Hubzilla, the Fediverse's ultimate Swiss army knife.
I am on Hubzilla myself. This channel of mine is constantly being mirrored between its main instance on https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu and its clone on https://hub.hubzilla.de. Anything that happens on the main instance is backed up on the clone. I can also log into the clone and use that, and whatever happens there is backed up on the main instance.
https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu could go down, temporarily, permanently, doesn't matter; I still have my channel, namely the clone. And I can declare the clone my new main instance.
Well, Mike didn't stop at Hubzilla and its original version of the Zot protocol. He wanted to refine it and advance it, but in ways that wouldn't be possible on daily-driver software.
Zot went through several upgrades: Zot6 in 2018 (backported to Hubzilla in 2020, along with OpenWebAuth magic single sign-on). Zot8 in 2020. Zot11 in 2021 which had become incompatible with Zot6 and therefore was renamed to Nomad. Today's Nomad would be Zot12.
Also, in order to advance and test Zot, Mike created a whole bunch of forks and forks of forks. Osada and Zap for Zot6 in 2018, followed by another short-lived Osada in 2019. A third Osada, Mistpark 2020 (a.k.a. Misty) and Redmatrix 2020 in 2020 for Zot8. Roadhouse for Zot11 Nomad in 2021. All Osadas, Zap, Misty, Redmatrix 2020 and Roadhouse were discontinued on New Year's Eve of 2022.
The most recent software based on Nomad is from October, 2021. It can be found in the streams repository. It is officially and intentionally nameless and brandless, it has next to nodeinfo code that could submit statistics, and it is intentionally released into the public domain. The community named it (streams) after the code repository.
I also have two (streams) channels, one of which is cloned so far.
The newest thing, and that's what the Friendica and Hubzilla veteran @Tim Schlotfeldt ⚓?️? referred to, is nomadic identity using nothing but ActivityPub, no longer relying on a special protocol.
This was not Mike Macgirvin's idea. This came from @silverpill, the creator and developer of the microblogging server application Mitra. He wanted to make Mitra nomadic, make it resilient against server shutdown. But he didn't want to port it to Nomad. He wanted to achieve it with nothing but ActivityPub.
So he hit up Mike. The two came to the conclusion: This is actually possible. And they began to work on it. Amongst the results were several FEPs coined by silverpill.
This time, Mike did not create another fork to develop nomadic identity via ActivityPub. He did it all on the nomadic branch of the streams repository while silverpill did his part on a special development branch of Mitra.
In mid-2024, after enough sparring between (streams) instances, between Mitra instances and between (streams) and Mitra, Mike was confident enough that his implementation of support of nomadic identity via ActivityPub was stable enough. He merged the nomadic branch into the dev branch which ended up being merged into the stable release branch in summer.
Now, at this point, (streams) didn't use ActivityPub for nomadic identity. It still used the Nomad protocol for everything first and foremost, including cloning. But it understood nomadic identity via ActivityPub as implemented on experimental Mitra.
However, while it worked under lab conditions, it blew up under real-life conditions. At this point, (streams) had to handle so many different identities that it confused them, and it couldn't federate with anything yet.
In mid-August, while trying to fix the problem, Mike eventually forked the streams repository into Forte. It got a name again, it got a brand identity again, it got its nodeinfo back, it was put under the MIT license again.
But most importantly: Any and all support for Nomad was ripped out, also to get rid of a whole number of IDs, namely those for Nomad-actually-Zot12 and for Hubzilla's Nomad-actually-Zot6. Forte only uses ActivityPub for everything. And so, Forte also had to fully rely on ActivityPub for nomadic identity, cloning and syncing.
For almost seven months, Forte was considered experimental and unstable. For most of the time, the only existing servers were Mike's.
But on March 12th, 2025, Mike Macgirvin released Forte 25.3.12, the first official stable release of Forte. This is what Tim wrote about. Because this actually made it into Fediverse-wide news.
Not because it's nomadic. Nomadic identity has been daily-driven for over a decade now.
But because it uses ActivityPub for nomadic identity. Which means that you can theoretically make any kinds of Fediverse software nomadic now, all without porting it to the Nomad protocol first.
For the future, Mike and silverpill envision a Fediverse in which one can clone between different server applications. A Fediverse in which one can have one and the same identity cloned across multiple servers of Mastodon, Pixelfed, PeerTube, Mitra, Forte, Mobilizon, Lemmy, BookWyrm etc., all with the same name, all with the same content and settings (as far as the software allows; you will certainly not be able to clone your PeerTube videos to Mastodon and Lemmy).
Even if you don't intend to clone, it will make moving instances and even moving from one software to another dramatically easier.
If you're concerned about your privacy, let me tell you this:
Hubzilla's privacy, security and permissions system is unparalleled in the Fediverse. Except for that on (streams) and Forte which is another notch better.
I can define who can see my profile (my default, public profile on Hubzilla where each channel can have multiple profiles).
I can define who can see my stream and my posts when looking at my channel.
I can define who can see my connections (Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte don't distinguish between follower and followed; they aren't Twitter clones).
I can define who can look into my file space (individual permission settings per folder and per file notwithstanding).
I can define who can see my webpages on Hubzilla (if I have any).
I can define who can see my wikis on Hubzilla (no shit, I've got wikis on my Hubzilla channel).
On Hubzilla, I can define individually for any of these whether it's- everyone on the Internet
- everyone with a recognisable Fediverse account
- everyone on Hubzilla (maybe also on (streams); anyone using ActivityPub is definitely excluded here)
- everyone on the same server as myself (AFAIK, only main instances of channels count here, clones don't)
- unapproved (= followers) as well as approved (= mutual) connections
- confirmed connections
- those of my confirmed connections whom I explicitly grant that permission by contact role
- only myself
There's a whole bunch more permissions than these. And they all have seven or eight permission levels (depending on whether the general non-Fediverse public can be given permission).
On (streams) and Forte, I can define whether things are allowed for- everyone on the Internet (where applicable)
- everyone with a recognisable Fediverse account
- all my approved connections
- only me myself plus those whom I explicitly grant that permission in the connection settings
Yes, connection settings. Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte give you various ways of configuring individual connections, much unlike Mastodon. This includes what any individual connection is allowed to do.
Hubzilla uses so-called "contact roles" for that, presets with a whopping 17 permissions to grant or deny for any one individual connection. That is, what the channel generally allows, a contact role can't forbid.
(streams) and Forte still have 15 permissions per contact, but they lack some features which Hubzilla has permissions for. These permissions can be set individually for each connection, or you can define permission roles that cover all 15 permissions to make things easier.
Okay, how about posting in public vs in private? And when I say "private", I mean "private". It's "private messages" on Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte, not "direct messages".
Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte let you post- in public
- only to yourself
- only to your connections ((streams) and Forte only; Hubzilla requires a privacy group with all your connections in it for this)
- to all members of one specific privacy group (Hubzilla)/access list ((streams), Forte); that's like being able to only post to those on one specific list on Mastodon
- to everyone to whom one specific non-default profile is assigned (Hubzilla only)
- to a specific group/forum (I'll get back to that later)
- to a custom one-by-one selection of connections of yours
Now, let's assume I have a privacy group with Alice, Bob and Carol in it. I send a new post to only this privacy group. This means:- Only Alice, Bob and Carol can see the post and the conversation.
- Alice can reply to me, Bob and Carol.
- Bob can reply to me, Alice and Carol.
- Carol can reply to me, Alice and Bob.
- Nobody else can see the post. Not even by searching for it. Not by hashtag either. Not at all.
- Nobody else can see any of the comments.
- Nobody else can comment.
If one of them was on Mastodon, they'd see my post as a DM, by the way, and they could only reply to me. But that's Mastodon's limitation because it understands neither threaded conversations nor permissions.
Or how about reply control? This is something that many Mastodon users have been craving for quite a while now. Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte have them. Right now. And they work. They have since 2012.
Hubzilla optionally lets me disallow comments on either of my posts. Users on Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte won't even be able to comment; they won't have the UI elements to do so. Everyone else is able to comment locally. But that comment will never end up on my channel. It will never officially be added to the conversation. And at least users on Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte will never fetch that comment from my channel as part of the conversation, i.e. never at all.
(streams) and Forte can go even further with all available options. They can disallow comments like Hubzilla. But in addition, they can allow only the members of one particular access list to comment, regardless of who can see the post/the conversation. On top of that, comments can be closed at a pre-defined point in the future. And then you even have a channel-wide setting for how long people can comment on your posts.
Oh, and there's even a setting for who is generally permitted to comment on your posts. And you can additionally allow specific connections of yours to comment on your posts.
Lastly, I've already mentioned groups/forums. Like, you know, Web forums or Facebook groups or subreddits or whatever. Like Guppe Groups on a mountain of coke and with moderation and permission control and optionally private.
Hubzilla has them, and it has inherited them from Friendica. (streams) has them. Forte has them. They're basically channels like social networking channels, but with some extra features. This includes that everything that's send to a group/forum as what amounts to a PM is automatically forwarded to all other members.
On Hubzilla, a forum can be gradually made private by denying permission to see certain elements to everyone but its own members (= connections): the profile, the members, what's going on in it. Depending on what you want or do not want people to see.
On (streams) and Forte, you have four types of forums:- public, and members can upload images and other files to the forum channel
- public, but members cannot upload images and other files to the forum channel
- like above, but additionally, posts and comments from new members must be manually approved by the admin(s) until their connections are configured to make them full members
- private, non-members can't see the profile, non-members can't see the connections, non-members can't see what's going on in it, but members can upload images and other files to the forum channel
In addition, on all three, a group/forum channel can choose to hide itself from directories. This is always an extra option that's independent from public/private.
What we have here is the most secure and most private Fediverse software of all.
And, once again, at its core, this is technology from 2012. It pre-dates Mastodon by almost four years.
Finally, if you want to know how Hubzilla and (streams) compare to Mastodon: I have made a number of tables that compare Mastodon, Friendica, Hubzilla and (streams).
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #Mitra #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #ActivityPub #Zot #Zot6 #Zot8 #Nomad #NomadicIdentity #Security #FediverseSecurity #Privacy #FediversePrivacy #Permissions -
Found 49 new servers and 39 servers died off since 7 hours ago.
22,771 servers checked. 16,274,408 Total Users with 1,067,282 Active Users today. Check out the stats!
New #fediverse servers found:
frends-0.kade.jp a #mastodon server from Private
vernissage.photos a #vernissage server from United States
triptych.oxus.net a #ghost server from Private
ohitori.hatachanoima.net a #misskey server from Private
arcano.altervista.org a #wordpress server from Germany
vsh.ngrok.dev a #wellesley server from United States
srnovus.fedired.com a #mastodon server from Private
autist.top a #pleroma server from United States
gotosocial.cloud.claudelup.in a #gotosocial server from France
social.1hz.su a #gotosocial server from Russia
snac2.popolon.org a #snac server from France
fdk.goulag.fr a #gotosocial server from Spain
mastodon.grumpfff.fr a #mastodon server from France
caos.social a #gotosocial server from United States
swag.beazone.net a #mastodon server from France
boubs.xyz a #wordpress server from United States
pupu.cafe a #gotosocial server from Private
collectivepower.net a #wordpress server from The Netherlands
fedivers.marcjestin.me a #wordpress server from France
modlabs.social a #mastodon server from Private
verity.cafe a #akkoma server from United States
masto.badger-tailor.ts.net a #mastodon server from United Kingdom
sora-sns.net a #misskey server from Japan
www.reflab.ch a #wordpress server from Belgium
tube.hapyyr.com a #peertube server from Finland
haunted.locker a #gotosocial server from Private
zacheverson.com a #wordpress server from United States
social.sc-sudo.de a #mastodon server from Germany
otsuka.social a #gotosocial server from United States
toot.now a #gotosocial server from Private
frei.social a #mastodon server from Germany
loops.video a #loops server from Private
schafweide.eu a #mastodon server from Germany
test-production.ghost.io a #ghost server from United States
mastodon.jrvs.cc a #mastodon server from The Netherlands
social.deltayeet.net a #mastodon server from United States
johnson.am a #mastodon server from Portugal
pythag.net a #piefed server from United Kingdom
agenda.rouen-luttes.org a #gancio server from France
free.epic-toolbars.download a #iceshrimpnet server from The Netherlands
live.grat.gay a #owncast server from Germany
fedi.goobleschmert.cc a #akkoma server from Germany
misskey.lilalm.site a #misskey server from Private
cool.epic-toolbars.download a #pleroma server from The Netherlands
pixel.pimmsiki.com a #pixelfed server from United Kingdom
social.id1.in a #gotosocial server from United States
arduino.uno a #mitra server from United States
fedi.pregnant.horse a #akkoma server from Private
social.t2arc.net a #mitra server from JapanHelp others find a home, send them to fediverse.observer
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Found 45 new servers and 28 servers died off since 7 hours ago.
22,779 servers checked. 16,274,408 Total Users with 1,067,282 Active Users today. Check out the stats!
New #fediverse servers found:
arcano.altervista.org a #wordpress server from Germany
vsh.ngrok.dev a #wellesley server from United States
srnovus.fedired.com a #mastodon server from Private
autist.top a #pleroma server from United States
gotosocial.cloud.claudelup.in a #gotosocial server from France
social.1hz.su a #gotosocial server from Russia
fdk.goulag.fr a #gotosocial server from Spain
snac2.popolon.org a #snac server from France
caos.social a #gotosocial server from United States
swag.beazone.net a #mastodon server from France
mastodon.grumpfff.fr a #mastodon server from France
pupu.cafe a #gotosocial server from Private
boubs.xyz a #wordpress server from United States
collectivepower.net a #wordpress server from The Netherlands
modlabs.social a #mastodon server from Private
fedivers.marcjestin.me a #wordpress server from France
verity.cafe a #akkoma server from United States
masto.badger-tailor.ts.net a #mastodon server from United Kingdom
sora-sns.net a #misskey server from Japan
www.reflab.ch a #wordpress server from Belgium
tube.hapyyr.com a #peertube server from Finland
haunted.locker a #gotosocial server from Private
zacheverson.com a #wordpress server from United States
social.sc-sudo.de a #mastodon server from Germany
otsuka.social a #gotosocial server from United States
toot.now a #gotosocial server from Private
frei.social a #mastodon server from Germany
loops.video a #loops server from Private
schafweide.eu a #mastodon server from Germany
test-production.ghost.io a #ghost server from United States
mastodon.jrvs.cc a #mastodon server from The Netherlands
social.deltayeet.net a #mastodon server from United States
johnson.am a #mastodon server from Portugal
fedi.goobleschmert.cc a #akkoma server from Germany
agenda.rouen-luttes.org a #gancio server from France
live.grat.gay a #owncast server from Germany
pythag.net a #piefed server from United Kingdom
free.epic-toolbars.download a #iceshrimpnet server from The Netherlands
misskey.lilalm.site a #misskey server from Private
pixel.pimmsiki.com a #pixelfed server from United Kingdom
cool.epic-toolbars.download a #pleroma server from The Netherlands
arduino.uno a #mitra server from United States
social.id1.in a #gotosocial server from United States
fedi.pregnant.horse a #akkoma server from Private
social.t2arc.net a #mitra server from JapanHelp others find a home, send them to fediverse.observer
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@Jenniferplusplus I sincerely hope that you aren't building Letterbook to only interact with itself and Mastodon.
Sooner or later, Letterbook will encounter content coming in from instances of software created by @Mike Macgirvin ?️, namely Friendica, Hubzilla (these two are actually older than Mastodon), (streams) or Forte. For reference: I am on Hubzilla.
You/it will have to expect and be able to deal with the following:- Enclosed one-post-many-comments conversations instead of threads that consist of posts loosely tied together
- Permissions of all comments/replies firmly defined by the start post; permissions/visibility can't be changed within a running conversation
- "Monster posts" of any length because none of them has a character limit
- Not just Note-type objects, but also Article-type objects (from Friendica right now, the others may implement them once Mastodon introduces sensible support for them)
- Full HTML text formatting, up to and including numbered lists, tables, horizontal lines, character size and character colour
- Both quotes (as done in bulletin-board forums) and quote-posts (posts fully embedded in other posts like quote-tweets)
- Embedded links (this comment makes a whole lot of use of them)
- Inline images embedded within the text, and more than four of these in one post
- Inline audio streams embedded within the text
- Inline videos embedded within the text
- "Weird" mentions and hashtags with the @ or the # not part of the link (look at the mentions and the hashtags in this comment, then look at mentions and hashtags on Mastodon and compare them)
- "Summaries in the CW field" (because Mastodon repurposed StatusNet's summary field, which was used by StatusNet, Friendica and Hubzilla as an actual summary field, for content warnings in 2017; several Fediverse server apps continue to use it for summaries)
- All four support titles in addition to summaries
Some of the above may also come in from elsewhere, e.g. a wider range of text formatting than Mastodon allows itself to render is fully supported by just about everything that isn't Mastodon.
Also, ActivityPub is currently evolving. New FEPs are being put to use and bringing in new features far away from how Mastodon is working. In particular, (streams) and Forte and @silverpill's Mitra use decentralised identifiers as per FEP-ef61 (Portable Objects). Forte has nomadic identity fully implemented via ActivityPub while (streams) at least supports it. And all three have conversation containers implemented, silverpill wants to make them an FEP, and Hubzilla is planning to implement them with version 10.
This means three things. One, weird identifiers. Two, weird actor identities: What looks like one user automatically cross-posting to another account on another instance to non-nomadic ActivityPub implementations is actually the very same actor residing simultaneously on multiple server instances. Three, again, conversations work drastically different from Twitter and Mastodon.
Lastly, it may be a good idea to implement a little server type display from the get-go so that the user knows what kind of Fediverse instance something comes from. Misskey and its forks have it, Friendica has it, (streams) has it, Forte has it. Just because Mastodon doesn't have it, doesn't mean it's a good idea not to have it. Besides, if content from certain server applications malfunctions on Letterbook, users can pinpoint right away what server application causes that trouble when submitting a bug report.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mitra #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Conversations #ConversationContainers #FEP_ef61 #NomadicIdentity -
@glyn Decentralised identity has been available for longer than Mastodon, let alone ActivityPub. Only that it is known as "nomadic identity" here.
It was first implemented by Friendica creator @Mike Macgirvin ?️ in the Zot protocol in 2011 and in a Friendica fork named Red in 2012, later renamed into the Red Matrix, eventually reworked and renamed into Hubzilla in 2015.
Proof: This Hubzilla channel of mine actually simultaneously resides on two servers.
(Almost) everything that Mike has made afterwards, forks and forks of forks of Hubzilla, used to have or still have nomadic identity implemented.
His streams repository contains a fork of a fork... of Hubzilla that intentionally has no name, and that offers nomadic identity via the Nomad protocol with better compatibility with non-nomadic ActivityPub. In July, it had decentralised IDs as per FEP-ef61 (see also here) implemented, a first step by Mike to fully implement nomadic identity in ActivityPub.
Forte, Mike's most recent fork from August, had all support for Nomad and Zot6 removed and only uses ActivityPub anymore while still offering nomadic identity. To my best knowledge, however, it has yet to be declared stable enough to be daily-driven, and it has no public instances.
Other than all this, a non-public development version of @silverpill's Mitra has nomadic identity via ActivityPub in development. I'm not sure whether FEP-ef61 is implemented in the release version yet. It's the only Fediverse project aiming to implement nomadic identity which Mike Macgirvin has nothing directly to do with.
The ultimate goal is to be able to clone a Fediverse identity across project borders. Only considering stable releases, it's currently only possible to clone Hubzilla channels within Hubzilla, using Zot6, or (streams) channels within (streams), using Nomad.
Unfortunately, Mike has officially retired from Fediverse development and only occasionally submits code to the streams repository and Forte anymore.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #DecentralizedIdentity #NomadicIdentity #ActivityPub #FEP_ef61 #Zot #Zot6 #Nomad #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Mitra -
@Dr. Jorge Caballero
Hear me out: 1-click privacy-conscious quoting.
@Dr. Jorge Caballero schrieb:Hear me out: 1-click privacy-conscious quoting.
>Hear me out: 1-click privacy-conscious quoting.
"Hear me out: 1-click privacy-conscious quoting."
«Hear me out: 1-click privacy-conscious quoting.»
(↑ All these were copy-pasted, by the way. But at least the upper two are fully legitimate quotes here. ↑)
I don't want to alarm you, but here on a bone-stock #Hubzilla 8.4 Web interface, I can gleefully circumvent any and all privacy safeguards any #Mastodon fork or any mobile app connected to any Mastodon instance could possibly present to me with absolutely no obstacles. And I have countless ways of quoting. I could #quote anyone.
That's because Hubzilla is neither a Mastodon fork nor an alternate Mastodon interface nor a Mastodon client app. It's a wholly separate project that's almost four years older than Mastodon, based on the #Zot protocol that's five years older than Mastodon and seven years older than #ActivityPub. It federates to Mastodon and everything else based on ActivityPub through an optional built-in connector, but internally, it speaks a language more powerful than ActivityPub.
By the way, the same goes for #Friendica, another separate project that's the direct predecessor of Hubzilla, based on the #DFRN protocol and six years older than Mastodon, as well as #Streams, another separate project that was launched last year as an "indirect" fork of a fork... of Hubzilla, based on the latest incarnation of Zot, now named #Nomad. Unlike Hubzilla, both have ActivityPub on by default.
Now I'm curious whether your privacy safeguards have any effect on other #Fediverse projects based on ActivityPub such as #Mitra, #Pleroma, #Akkoma, #MissKey, #CalcKey or #FoundKey.
#MastodonIsNotTheFediverse -
@gordoooo_z @PhenomX6 @futurebird @ink8 Whatever Eugen decides at this point it’s irrelevant. He’s pretty much lost his grip over holding the Fediverse brand as secondary to the notion of a fantasy “mastodon network” when he gave that Time Magazine interview two months ago in which the word “Fediverse” appeared not one single time - that caused enormous, untold damages including confusion that remains in the news media and disenfranchisement of large swaths of developers and users alike on not just other platforms, but mastodon instances themselves.
There’s really no such thing as toots anymore, Eugen himself refers to “Posts” and “Quote Posts”, and the submit button in mastodon now says “publish”. The reason #Misskey calls them “notes” is because that’s what they are actually called in #ActivityPub - there are also other types, that other platforms use as well, including “article”, although, instances like #qoto have set the character count for notes at 65535 🙂
It’s been covered in this thread already that Quote Posts are simply beyond the control of mastodon devs, Eugen’s edicts, or local mastodon users or admins, because most other platforms support it and there isn’t anything #mastopub can do about it. In Misskey, users can disallow it, but that only affects other local users, so it’s s moot point (except for silo instances).
There are very few Fediverse platforms that aren’t taking advantage of most things that are possible, for example, #Soapbox now has federated events, and introduced custom emoji reactions like Misskey has, and live chat - Misskey’s traditionally led the way with these federating features with #Calckey going even further.
Some platforms however, intentionally incorporate a leaner set of features; #Smithereen is one example, it doesn’t even sccomodate boosts, which harkens back to #Myspace, #VKontakte (aka, “VK” - not sure I spelled that right), and very early #Faceplant days. #Epicyon has anti-silo capabilities baked in.
#Mitra has #Substack style subscriptions at it’s core. Anyone can subscribe remotely from any Fediverse server instance where the user can receive DMs - and in congruence with privacy concerns that are typically expected for Fediverse implementations, it’s based on #Monero (XMR).
Most platforms also support #Markdown, with Cakckey being perhaps supporting the greatest superset IIRC, including #LaTEX, and #Friendica, being much older than msstodon, has continued to evolve over the past decade and still has support for #BBCode too, and direct links for uploading images for those who prefer to.
I didn’t see any mention of Markdown support when I bothered to look at the mastopub roadmap, yet even on that platform, Quote Posts are all throughout the stream and people boost and reply to them as the time - and, as mentioned earlier, anyone can create a post, simply pasting the link from someone else’s post, and then boost that… Voila! Local #Quote_Post.
mastodon was successful in its arrogance of leveraging some pretty graphics and welcoming verbiage into a brand that Eugen weaponized against virtually all other Fediverse platforms, and now, with all of the fine forks like #Hometown and several newcomers, we’ll soon be seeing hardforking as a result of that hostility.
But not just forks, funding and ambitious development as evidenced by existing and emerging platforms like #Cloudflare’s #Wildebeest, Tumbler, and the very unique, #Django based Takahē Fediverse server that I wrote about here:
https://tallship.writeas.com/takahe-a-new-fediverse-paradigm
Average people are already migrating in larger numbers everyday away from the archaic mastodonian resource hog to other, more capable and promising (and friendlier) platforms elsewhere in the Fediverse that have integrated and fully support #masto_migration, and even ones that don’t (yet) haver that feature.
Unlike other dinosaurs and the eponymous mammal for which Eugen chose the namesake of his #TootSuite product, we shouldn’t expect extinction for his platform, but the apathy and indifference levels are rising, as is the enmity in many sectors of the community for what others perceive as a betrayal (or sellout), and that kind of self-inflicted damage is often difficult to mitigate, with waves of disenchantment reverberating get into the future… Just look at what happened to #SourceForge - it still technically exists, but never recovered after the community betrayal it committed years ago.
And finally, there’s a irony so obvious that’s it’s not even plausible to deny… Eugen subverted the very rudimentary principal that the Fediverse network is ideologically predicated upon - #DeSoc… There’s no question that his goals shifted to that if building a silo for himself, at least to some great degree. Very sad.
An interesting thing about condescending others, you find yourself alone and isolated in an otherwise vibrant, busy world.
#tallship #Takahe #ActivityPub #privacy #community_values #FOSS
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Yup!
How do y'all feel about having your profile here in a #Soapbox server being reported as mastopub?
Or any other #Fediverse server for that matter!
Direct links to speak to the #carpetbaggers that did it are below 🤘😎🤘
#tallship #Fediverse #Mitra #Misskey #Socialhome #Friendica #Foundkey #Quanta #Smithereen #Pixelfed #Hometown #Castopod #Lemmy #OwnCast #ActivityPub #FOSS
RT: https://venera.social/objects/85a863ed-1863-dbc5-8c20-2bf604431456 -
## Making Better Use of Space
### Moving that old white elephant in the room.
There's been a lot of talk lately, and speculation, about the #Fediverse. Yet for the most part, only with respect to a single brand of server platform.
What I find particularly odd about that, is it's a rather lackluster server platform (especially considering the hefty system requirements) with an extremely limited feature list. Mastodon servers have a hard coded default character count limit per post of only 500 characters - more than Twitter, but not often enough to get a complete thought out with a link to somewhere else, or engage in a conversational thread, and certainly nowhere near what you need to post a news article, holiday recipe, tutorial, HowTo, or movie review.
As if a paltry 500 character limit isn't bad enough for this resource hog, virtually every other Fediverse platform provides for sensible , and configurable message lengths with common defaults of 2000, 5000, or more; most support #Markdown, and other ubiquitous text formats like #LaTex or #HTML, and some even have built in #WYSIWYG editors - like #WordPress, #Hubzilla, and #Drupal, with big players like #Imgur and #Tumblr already looking forward to their official Fediverse launches soon.
When those latter two giants arrive on the scene, the world of social networking will truly be interconnected, having achieved critical mass. It will be a revolution, a juggernaut toppling the deprecated, legacy monolithic silos that have so insidiously subverted and subjugated the masses like chattel. But I digress.
Other Fediverse platforms have offered the ability for people to edit their own posts for a long time, some for years, yet mastodon enabled this capability less than a month ago. It lags behind most other Fediverse platforms in several other ways too - groups, marketplaces, federated chat, and several other often requested functions are all but ignored by that platforms' developer while other Fediverse servers enjoy active and ambitious development cycles with new feature releases.
So considering it is so lacking in basic functionality compared to the other more prominent contemporaries, I've assembled a curated list below where you can evaluate and testdrive others for yourself. I've included links to some of the most darling up and coming projects like #Foundkey and #Quanta, that scale to thousands of users, and if you truly want an even smaller, minimalist Fediverse platform I've included #MicroBlogPub too. There's a couple of web tools including databases so you can search for even more platforms, instances, and compare statistics.
Choosing from the list below, you can join existing instances, self-host your own, or even have a professional #hosting_provider do it for you - simply pick a #turnkey provider where in just a couple of clicks your new fully managed Fediverse server will be online in only a minute or two!
There are literally free and privacy respecting Fediverse platforms to replace everything from #Faceplant, #Twatter, #Reddit, #YouTube, #twitch, #InstaSPAM, #Spotify, #Quora and so very much more!
And most are so light on system resources that you can run then on an old laptop or #Raspberry_Pi in your home.
Without further adieu, here's a list of [some of] the most prominent Fediverse server platforms in operation.
https://join.misskey.page/en-US/instances
https://akkoma.dev/FoundKeyGang/FoundKey
https://funkwhale.audio/en_US/apps
#tallship #FOSS #Soapbox #Rebased #PeerTube #Mitra #Quanta #Pixelfed #Epicyon #Friendica #WriteFreely #Plume #FunkWhale #MicroBlogPub #Socialhome #GotoSocial #Owncast #LoTide #Lemmy #ActivityPub #Privacy #DeSoc #Federating #Decentralize
I hope that helps! Enjoy!
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Mastodon IS NOT the #Fediverse!
The #BDFL of that project saying it's is "vital" illustrates the branding philosophy and corporate, ego driven mindset behind so many PRs and requests that have repeatedly been rejected by an overwhelming amount of Fediverse users and developers - just look at how many 👎 "thumbs down" 👎 reactions his post received (that is rarely seen on GitHub).
His language and marketing have been largely successful, confusing newcomers during this Twitter egress (including media coverage) and conflating just what the Fediverse and mastodon are...
People are saying, "I just joined mastodon!" - NO, you did not. You just joined the "Fediverse", by creating an account on a mastodon server. Even newcomers creating accounts on #Friendica and #Pleroma servers are often seen saying this, and it needs to "STOP".
The Fediverse is the network they are joining, and mastodon is just one of a dozen or so viable platforms that people can use to do so.
Truth be told, mastodon is one of the least feature complete Fediverse server platforms, lacking in many of the most basic social networking tools and features that most other popular server platforms introduced ages ago.
It doesn't even render Markdown, have have quotable boosting, only introduced editing of posts a couple of weeks back, and has a hard coded limit of a paltry 500 characters for each post, forcing users to create those confusingly chronologically backward hellthreads that are interspersed and broken up in everyone's feeds, and there's many more deficiencies to list here.
This is why there are so many different forks.
When you create a #PeerTube account, you haven't joined the PeerTube network - you've joined the Fediverse!
When you create a #Pixelfed account, you haven't joined the Pixelfed network - you've joined the Fediverse!
If you create a mastodon account, you haven't joined "mastodon" - you've joined three Fediverse!
There is no such thing as a mastodon network!
It's just one type of Fediverse server platform, among many, like:
#Akkama, Pleroma, Friendica, #Lemmy, #Soapbox, #Misskey, PeerTube, #Mitra, Pixelfed, #MicroPub, #Epicyon, #Quanta, #GoToSicial, #Socialhome, #FunkWhale, and many many other platforms that open up the entire Fediverse to people, allowing them to share and seamlessly communicate with one another.
There are analogs for #Faceplant, #Twitter, #InstaSPAM, #Reddit, and pretty much any type of social networking experience you can find in the deprecated, centralized, legacy silo systems that cannot, and do not wish to interact with each other - which the Fediverse breaks the paradigm of, and empowers everyone engage with each other globally.
Mastodon's marketing has very deliberately been designed to subvert that narrative and replace this reality with its own, self serving commercial interests to the detriment of Fediverse itself.
A wake up call us coming very soon when the #non_FOSS based platforms like #Tumblr and #Imgur join their (millions) substantial user bases to the Fediverse at which time, mastodon itself may find itself drowned out and largely irrelevant due to its very lacking feature set, and ask if the other existing Fediverse platforms providing so much more if what is possible for us all.
This is typically what happens when your development is driven by egocentric, ulterior motives (whether he actually realizes this about himself or not) to benefit yourself personally - just look at how his donations have jumped, even though newcomers are creating accounts on other Fediverse and mastodon servers begging for donations that for the most part are going directly to him.
#tallship #FOSS #ActivityPub #introductions #newcomers
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Without further ado, here's a list of all the most prominent #Fediverse server platforms in operation.
Choosing from the list below, you can join existing instances, self-host your own, and when have a professional #hosting_provider do it for your - just pick a #turnkey provider where in just a couple of clicks your new fully managed Fediverse server will be online in only a minute or two!
There's literally free and privacy respecting Fediverse platforms to replace everything from #Faceplant, #Twatter, #Reddit, #YouTube, #twitch, #InstaSPAM, #Spotify, and so very much more!
https://funkwhale.audio/en_US/apps/
#tallship #FOSS #Soapbox #Rebased #PeerTube #Mitra #Quanta #Pixelfed #Friendica #WriteFreely #Plume #FunkWhale #MicroBlogPub #Socialhome #GotoSocial #Owncast #LoTide #Lemmy #ActivityPub #Privacy #DeSoc #Federating #Decentralize
I hope that helps! Enjoy!
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Without further ado, here's a list of all the most prominent #Fediverse server platforms in operation.
Choosing from the list below, you can join existing instances, self-host your own, and when have a professional #hosting_provider do it for your - just pick a #turnkey provider where in just a couple of clicks your new fully managed Fediverse server will be online in only a minute or two!
There's literally free and privacy respecting Fediverse platforms to replace everything from #Faceplant, #Twatter, #Reddit, #YouTube, #twitch, #InstaSPAM, #Spotify, and so very much more!
https://JoinTheFedi.com
https://Soapbox.Pub
https://Btrf.ly
https://JoinPeerTube.org
https://Mitra.Social
https://Pixelfed.org
https://Friendi.ca
https://Quanta.Wiki
https://FediDB.org/software
https://WriteFreely.org
https://funkwhale.audio/en_US/apps/
https://microblog.pub/
https://socialhome.network/
https://owncast.online/
https://join-lemmy.org/
#tallship #FOSS #Soapbox #Rebased #PeerTube #Mitra #Quanta #Pixelfed #Friendica #WriteFreely #Plume #FunkWhale #MicroBlogPub #Socialhome #GotoSocial #Owncast #LoTide #Lemmy #ActivityPub #Privacy #DeSoc #Federating #Decentralize
I hope that helps! Enjoy!
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