#mangane — Public Fediverse posts

J'ai fait une petite mise à jour de :mangane: qui permet, si le paramètre n'a pas été changé sur le statut en cours, d'ajuster automatiquement la langue du statut en cours de rédaction en fonction de son contenu.


#mangane

J'ai fait une petite mise à jour de :mangane: qui permet, si le paramètre n'a pas été changé sur le statut en cours, d'ajuster automatiquement la langue du statut en cours de rédaction en fonction de son contenu.


#mangane

J'ai fait une petite mise à jour de :mangane: qui permet, si le paramètre n'a pas été changé sur le statut en cours, d'ajuster automatiquement la langue du statut en cours de rédaction en fonction de son contenu.


#mangane

J'ai fait une petite mise à jour de :mangane: qui permet, si le paramètre n'a pas été changé sur le statut en cours, d'ajuster automatiquement la langue du statut en cours de rédaction en fonction de son contenu.


#mangane

Le pull to refresh fait maintenant aussi apparaître les status en queue qui avait déjà été reçus.

Bizarre que ça ne le faisait pas déjà avant, mais il est notable que cette base de code est pleine de surprises

#mangane

Le pull to refresh fait maintenant aussi apparaître les status en queue qui avait déjà été reçus.

Bizarre que ça ne le faisait pas déjà avant, mais il est notable que cette base de code est pleine de surprises

#mangane

Le pull to refresh fait maintenant aussi apparaître les status en queue qui avait déjà été reçus.

Bizarre que ça ne le faisait pas déjà avant, mais il est notable que cette base de code est pleine de surprises

#mangane

Le pull to refresh fait maintenant aussi apparaître les status en queue qui avait déjà été reçus.

Bizarre que ça ne le faisait pas déjà avant, mais il est notable que cette base de code est pleine de surprises

#mangane

Je bosse sur deux trois bugs sur Mangane

Je vire aussi le code sur les chats qui est de toute façon inutilisé depuis... Des années maintenant

Par ailleurs, l'api de messages direct est dépréciée par Akkoma, qui privilégie les conversations (ce qui fait plus de sens de toute façon). L'interface actuelle est éclatée sur Mangane. La bonne nouvelle c'est que c'est trivial de l'améliorer. Ca sera dispo prochaine version !

#mangane

Je bosse sur deux trois bugs sur Mangane

Je vire aussi le code sur les chats qui est de toute façon inutilisé depuis... Des années maintenant

Par ailleurs, l'api de messages direct est dépréciée par Akkoma, qui privilégie les conversations (ce qui fait plus de sens de toute façon). L'interface actuelle est éclatée sur Mangane. La bonne nouvelle c'est que c'est trivial de l'améliorer. Ca sera dispo prochaine version !

#mangane

Je bosse sur deux trois bugs sur Mangane

Je vire aussi le code sur les chats qui est de toute façon inutilisé depuis... Des années maintenant

Par ailleurs, l'api de messages direct est dépréciée par Akkoma, qui privilégie les conversations (ce qui fait plus de sens de toute façon). L'interface actuelle est éclatée sur Mangane. La bonne nouvelle c'est que c'est trivial de l'améliorer. Ca sera dispo prochaine version !

#mangane

Je bosse sur deux trois bugs sur Mangane

Je vire aussi le code sur les chats qui est de toute façon inutilisé depuis... Des années maintenant

Par ailleurs, l'api de messages direct est dépréciée par Akkoma, qui privilégie les conversations (ce qui fait plus de sens de toute façon). L'interface actuelle est éclatée sur Mangane. La bonne nouvelle c'est que c'est trivial de l'améliorer. Ca sera dispo prochaine version !

#mangane

@Preuss of the south Eine grafische Web-Benutzeroberfläche als Ersatz für Pleromas offizielle Benutzeroberfläche Pleroma-FE und für Akkomas offizielle Benutzeroberfläche Akkoma-FE. Wenn es da installiert ist, steht Pleroma-FE bzw. Akkoma-FE nicht mehr zur Verfügung, nur noch Mangane.

Als Nutzer kann man es aber nicht installieren, sondern nur als Serveradmin und dann wie schon angedeutet nur für alle Nutzer gleichermaßen.

Es funktioniert auch mit Mastodon.

https://github.com/BDX-town/Mangane

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Mastodon #Pleroma #Akkoma #Mangane #Pleromane #Akkomane

@Preuss of the south Eine grafische Web-Benutzeroberfläche als Ersatz für Pleromas offizielle Benutzeroberfläche Pleroma-FE und für Akkomas offizielle Benutzeroberfläche Akkoma-FE. Wenn es da installiert ist, steht Pleroma-FE bzw. Akkoma-FE nicht mehr zur Verfügung, nur noch Mangane.

Als Nutzer kann man es aber nicht installieren, sondern nur als Serveradmin und dann wie schon angedeutet nur für alle Nutzer gleichermaßen.

Es funktioniert auch mit Mastodon.

https://github.com/BDX-town/Mangane

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Mastodon #Pleroma #Akkoma #Mangane #Pleromane #Akkomane

@Preuss of the south Eine grafische Web-Benutzeroberfläche als Ersatz für Pleromas offizielle Benutzeroberfläche Pleroma-FE und für Akkomas offizielle Benutzeroberfläche Akkoma-FE. Wenn es da installiert ist, steht Pleroma-FE bzw. Akkoma-FE nicht mehr zur Verfügung, nur noch Mangane.

Als Nutzer kann man es aber nicht installieren, sondern nur als Serveradmin und dann wie schon angedeutet nur für alle Nutzer gleichermaßen.

Es funktioniert auch mit Mastodon.

https://github.com/BDX-town/Mangane

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Mastodon #Pleroma #Akkoma #Mangane #Pleromane #Akkomane

@Preuss of the south Eine grafische Web-Benutzeroberfläche als Ersatz für Pleromas offizielle Benutzeroberfläche Pleroma-FE und für Akkomas offizielle Benutzeroberfläche Akkoma-FE. Wenn es da installiert ist, steht Pleroma-FE bzw. Akkoma-FE nicht mehr zur Verfügung, nur noch Mangane.

Als Nutzer kann man es aber nicht installieren, sondern nur als Serveradmin und dann wie schon angedeutet nur für alle Nutzer gleichermaßen.

Es funktioniert auch mit Mastodon.

https://github.com/BDX-town/Mangane

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Mastodon #Pleroma #Akkoma #Mangane #Pleromane #Akkomane

@Preuss of the south Eine grafische Web-Benutzeroberfläche als Ersatz für Pleromas offizielle Benutzeroberfläche Pleroma-FE und für Akkomas offizielle Benutzeroberfläche Akkoma-FE. Wenn es da installiert ist, steht Pleroma-FE bzw. Akkoma-FE nicht mehr zur Verfügung, nur noch Mangane.

Als Nutzer kann man es aber nicht installieren, sondern nur als Serveradmin und dann wie schon angedeutet nur für alle Nutzer gleichermaßen.

Es funktioniert auch mit Mastodon.

https://github.com/BDX-town/Mangane

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Mastodon #Pleroma #Akkoma #Mangane #Pleromane #Akkomane

@Markus Wenn dir Akkoma gefällt, guck dir mal Mangane als Frontend an. Da schwören wohl so einige drauf und sagen, das ist besser als Pleroma-FE/Akkoma-FE.

Und das Risiko, daß bei Akkoma oder Sharkey das Licht ausgeht, ist auch nicht größer als das Risiko, daß bei so manch einer anderen Fediverse-Serversoftware das Licht ausgeht. Beides sind keine im Affekt aufgezogenen Forks irgendwelcher emotional labilen Einzelkämpfer, wie es sie unter den Forkeys schon einige gab.

CC: @Carsten @crossgolf_rebel - kostenlose Kwalitätsposts

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Akkoma #AkkomaFE #Mangane #Akkomane #Sharkey

@Markus Wenn dir Akkoma gefällt, guck dir mal Mangane als Frontend an. Da schwören wohl so einige drauf und sagen, das ist besser als Pleroma-FE/Akkoma-FE.

Und das Risiko, daß bei Akkoma oder Sharkey das Licht ausgeht, ist auch nicht größer als das Risiko, daß bei so manch einer anderen Fediverse-Serversoftware das Licht ausgeht. Beides sind keine im Affekt aufgezogenen Forks irgendwelcher emotional labilen Einzelkämpfer, wie es sie unter den Forkeys schon einige gab.

CC: @Carsten @crossgolf_rebel - kostenlose Kwalitätsposts

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Akkoma #AkkomaFE #Mangane #Akkomane #Sharkey

@Markus Wenn dir Akkoma gefällt, guck dir mal Mangane als Frontend an. Da schwören wohl so einige drauf und sagen, das ist besser als Pleroma-FE/Akkoma-FE.

Und das Risiko, daß bei Akkoma oder Sharkey das Licht ausgeht, ist auch nicht größer als das Risiko, daß bei so manch einer anderen Fediverse-Serversoftware das Licht ausgeht. Beides sind keine im Affekt aufgezogenen Forks irgendwelcher emotional labilen Einzelkämpfer, wie es sie unter den Forkeys schon einige gab.

CC: @Carsten @crossgolf_rebel - kostenlose Kwalitätsposts

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Akkoma #AkkomaFE #Mangane #Akkomane #Sharkey

@Markus Wenn dir Akkoma gefällt, guck dir mal Mangane als Frontend an. Da schwören wohl so einige drauf und sagen, das ist besser als Pleroma-FE/Akkoma-FE.

Und das Risiko, daß bei Akkoma oder Sharkey das Licht ausgeht, ist auch nicht größer als das Risiko, daß bei so manch einer anderen Fediverse-Serversoftware das Licht ausgeht. Beides sind keine im Affekt aufgezogenen Forks irgendwelcher emotional labilen Einzelkämpfer, wie es sie unter den Forkeys schon einige gab.

CC: @Carsten @crossgolf_rebel - kostenlose Kwalitätsposts

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Akkoma #AkkomaFE #Mangane #Akkomane #Sharkey

@Markus Wenn dir Akkoma gefällt, guck dir mal Mangane als Frontend an. Da schwören wohl so einige drauf und sagen, das ist besser als Pleroma-FE/Akkoma-FE.

Und das Risiko, daß bei Akkoma oder Sharkey das Licht ausgeht, ist auch nicht größer als das Risiko, daß bei so manch einer anderen Fediverse-Serversoftware das Licht ausgeht. Beides sind keine im Affekt aufgezogenen Forks irgendwelcher emotional labilen Einzelkämpfer, wie es sie unter den Forkeys schon einige gab.

CC: @Carsten @crossgolf_rebel - kostenlose Kwalitätsposts

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Akkoma #AkkomaFE #Mangane #Akkomane #Sharkey

If you're using #Mangane on #Pleroma or #Akkoma this may apply to you.

RE: https://hachyderm.io/@shortridge/115664561783943907

If you're using #Mangane on #Pleroma or #Akkoma this may apply to you.

RE: https://hachyderm.io/@shortridge/115664561783943907

If you're using #Mangane on #Pleroma or #Akkoma this may apply to you.

RE: https://hachyderm.io/@shortridge/115664561783943907

If you're using #Mangane on #Pleroma or #Akkoma this may apply to you.

RE: https://hachyderm.io/@shortridge/115664561783943907

If you're using #Mangane on #Pleroma or #Akkoma this may apply to you.

RE: https://hachyderm.io/@shortridge/115664561783943907

:mangane: Mangane v1.16.9 is out!

🆕 Features

- Cleaner bottom navigation – The bottom bar is now simpler and more modern.
- New compose page – Writing a post has its own page now, with more space.
- Better post layout on mobile – Posts look nicer on phones.
- Smarter action bar – The buttons under posts are clearer and easier to use.
- Bubble nav hides when unused – If you don’t use bubble timelines, you won’t see the bubble nav anymore.

🛠 Fixes & improvements

- Follow button rework – Prevents layout glitches when you follow someone.
- Unlisted posts are now shareable again.
- Compose flow is smoother
- Fixed weird transparent background on bookmarks.
- Various small UI fixes.

🧹 Other

- Cleaned up some unused files.
- Fixed deploy scripts (internal stuff).

#mangane

:mangane: Mangane v1.16.9 is out!

🆕 Features

- Cleaner bottom navigation – The bottom bar is now simpler and more modern.
- New compose page – Writing a post has its own page now, with more space.
- Better post layout on mobile – Posts look nicer on phones.
- Smarter action bar – The buttons under posts are clearer and easier to use.
- Bubble nav hides when unused – If you don’t use bubble timelines, you won’t see the bubble nav anymore.

🛠 Fixes & improvements

- Follow button rework – Prevents layout glitches when you follow someone.
- Unlisted posts are now shareable again.
- Compose flow is smoother
- Fixed weird transparent background on bookmarks.
- Various small UI fixes.

🧹 Other

- Cleaned up some unused files.
- Fixed deploy scripts (internal stuff).

#mangane

:mangane: Mangane v1.16.9 is out!

🆕 Features

- Cleaner bottom navigation – The bottom bar is now simpler and more modern.
- New compose page – Writing a post has its own page now, with more space.
- Better post layout on mobile – Posts look nicer on phones.
- Smarter action bar – The buttons under posts are clearer and easier to use.
- Bubble nav hides when unused – If you don’t use bubble timelines, you won’t see the bubble nav anymore.

🛠 Fixes & improvements

- Follow button rework – Prevents layout glitches when you follow someone.
- Unlisted posts are now shareable again.
- Compose flow is smoother
- Fixed weird transparent background on bookmarks.
- Various small UI fixes.

🧹 Other

- Cleaned up some unused files.
- Fixed deploy scripts (internal stuff).

#mangane

:mangane: Mangane v1.16.9 is out!

🆕 Features

- Cleaner bottom navigation – The bottom bar is now simpler and more modern.
- New compose page – Writing a post has its own page now, with more space.
- Better post layout on mobile – Posts look nicer on phones.
- Smarter action bar – The buttons under posts are clearer and easier to use.
- Bubble nav hides when unused – If you don’t use bubble timelines, you won’t see the bubble nav anymore.

🛠 Fixes & improvements

- Follow button rework – Prevents layout glitches when you follow someone.
- Unlisted posts are now shareable again.
- Compose flow is smoother
- Fixed weird transparent background on bookmarks.
- Various small UI fixes.

🧹 Other

- Cleaned up some unused files.
- Fixed deploy scripts (internal stuff).

#mangane

@Strypey

You say this like it's a bad thing.

Not at all.

One advantage is, as you've said, that the backend and the Web frontend can have their own developers, development of both can largely be detached, and they can be upgraded separately from one another.

Separate Web frontends can be developed by people who actually know a thing or two about frontend development and UI design. I mean, look at the Web UIs of some all-in-one Fediverse server applications. They're often the digital counterpart of random knobs and switches poked through a piece of cardboard and labelled with a ball pen, just so that these knobs and switches are there. Sometimes they're the equivalent of expecting all kinds of end users to operate DIP switches, but hey, they're still better than soldering and unsoldering wires.

Another advantage is that server software for which alternative frontends exist does not have to drag its default frontend around. There are Mastodon servers with alternative frontends, but they still have to have the two official Web UIs installed (the default one and the Tweetdeck-style one) because they're firmly welded to the backend. I guess we all know what a heavyweight Mastodon is, and I'm certain that part of the weight is caused by the built-in Web UIs. In stark contrast, you can set up an Akkoma server with Mangane instead of Akkoma-FE, as in without having to also install Akkoma-FE.

By the way, Hubzilla is an interesting case here. Not only is its default UI very configurable, but Hubzilla itself is highly themeable, and third-party themes almost amount to entirely new UIs. At the same time, however, practically all official development efforts went only into the backend for most of its existence.

Any Hubzilla UI has to wrestle an immense wealth of features, and not exactly new features were added over time. This, however, caused Hubzilla's UI to gradually turn into a jumbled mess because some of the new UI elements were seemingly added in totally random places. Not only was the UI never cleaned up, but the default theme is perpetually stuck in 2012 (the name "Redbasic" says it all, it was made for Hubzilla when Hubzilla was still named Red), it was derived from an early Friendica theme, and even Friendica wasn't pretty back then. Also, the documentation was completely neglected.

So the situation last year was that there was only one working Hubzilla theme left, and that was Redbasic. It was the only theme that was even only upgraded to work with newer Hubzilla versions. There used to be other official themes, but they eventually ended up so outdated that they were removed altogether. @Sean Tilley's third-party themes were last touched seven years ago, that must have been around the time when Hubzilla 3 came out. At the same time, the official documentation was not only highly incomplete, but it was so outdated that parts of it were simply false. It partly referred to features that had been axed many years ago (tech levels) and features that simply were never there (four different mention styles), and parts of it even still spoke of Red. Thus, nobody even knew how to develop new themes for current Hubzilla.

That was when the community stepped in. @Der Pepe (Hubzilla) ⁂ ⚝ sat down and rewrote the entire help. @Scott M. Stolz not only started working on his NeuHub themes, but in the same process, he reverse-engineered Hubzilla's theming system to write documentation for theming Hubzilla which had never been written before AFAIK. Around that time, @????? was dabbling with specialised themes for certain purposes, e.g. one very clean theme for Hubzilla channels used as long-form blogs. Later on, @Saiwal joined the fray with his now-popular Utsukta themes.

Granted, Hubzilla still carries Redbasic around, not only as the default for new channels unless the admin chooses another one, but also as a fallback in case a new Hubzilla version doesn't support existing third-party themes anymore. The latter is becoming less likely as the Utsukta themes are being built against Hubzilla's development versions now. Besides, it's in Hubzilla's nature that everything on a hub is updated at the same time, including third-party repositories.

In general, the Hubzilla community is no longer that easily satisfied with a UI that "just works", and the devs have taken notice. Hubzilla 10.4, now a release candidate, will spruce up certain core parts of the UI. It will introduce a tree-style thread view as the new default instead of its current chronological view, something that Friendica, (streams) and Forte have had for significantly longer. That is, this is actually a side-effect of the introduction of "lazy loading" conversations to reduce the server workload. Also, upon user request, it will add a button to add images to comments.

If (streams) and Forte grow bigger, the same could happen there. They have two official themes to choose from, fairly new Fresh and an older version of Redbasic. However, they don't have a large enough community for all the same things to happen to them that happened to Hubzilla, although Pepe has said he'd rewrite the (streams) and Forte help as well, seeing as Mike had ripped them out entirely with no replacements as they were too outdated at that point. Maybe someone will even write a guide on how to adapt Hubzilla themes to (streams) and Forte.

That is, (streams) and Forte are both already the result of several years of UI and UX advancement and improvements and making them fit for a Mastodon-dominated Fediverse (where Hubzilla is still geared towards a Fediverse which it will dominate itself by the mid-to-late 2010s). This is stuff which can't be taken care of in themes because it concerns the UI engine itself, and it's partly tied deeply into the backend.

While Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte won't be able to do without their official themes anytime soon, the official themes don't significantly weigh them down. Still, they require some maintenance work to keep up with the backend.

Wouldn't Mastodon would be better if it specialised in developing apps, and outsourced the server side to people who know how to do back-end engineering?

This makes me wonder which half Mastodon would be willing to outsource. I think they'd rather hold on to the backend and pass all the frontends on. Of course, this would come with the advantage of the official Mastodon mobile app actually becoming somewhat decent rather than remaining the "we need an official app, no matter how" kluge that it is today.

CC: @Tim Chambers @rakoo

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #ActivityPub #Mastodon #Akkoma #AkkomaFE #Mangane #Akkomane #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte

@Strypey

You say this like it's a bad thing.

Not at all.

One advantage is, as you've said, that the backend and the Web frontend can have their own developers, development of both can largely be detached, and they can be upgraded separately from one another.

Separate Web frontends can be developed by people who actually know a thing or two about frontend development and UI design. I mean, look at the Web UIs of some all-in-one Fediverse server applications. They're often the digital counterpart of random knobs and switches poked through a piece of cardboard and labelled with a ball pen, just so that these knobs and switches are there. Sometimes they're the equivalent of expecting all kinds of end users to operate DIP switches, but hey, they're still better than soldering and unsoldering wires.

Another advantage is that server software for which alternative frontends exist does not have to drag its default frontend around. There are Mastodon servers with alternative frontends, but they still have to have the two official Web UIs installed (the default one and the Tweetdeck-style one) because they're firmly welded to the backend. I guess we all know what a heavyweight Mastodon is, and I'm certain that part of the weight is caused by the built-in Web UIs. In stark contrast, you can set up an Akkoma server with Mangane instead of Akkoma-FE, as in without having to also install Akkoma-FE.

By the way, Hubzilla is an interesting case here. Not only is its default UI very configurable, but Hubzilla itself is highly themeable, and third-party themes almost amount to entirely new UIs. At the same time, however, practically all official development efforts went only into the backend for most of its existence.

Any Hubzilla UI has to wrestle an immense wealth of features, and not exactly new features were added over time. This, however, caused Hubzilla's UI to gradually turn into a jumbled mess because some of the new UI elements were seemingly added in totally random places. Not only was the UI never cleaned up, but the default theme is perpetually stuck in 2012 (the name "Redbasic" says it all, it was made for Hubzilla when Hubzilla was still named Red), it was derived from an early Friendica theme, and even Friendica wasn't pretty back then. Also, the documentation was completely neglected.

So the situation last year was that there was only one working Hubzilla theme left, and that was Redbasic. It was the only theme that was even only upgraded to work with newer Hubzilla versions. There used to be other official themes, but they eventually ended up so outdated that they were removed altogether. @Sean Tilley's third-party themes were last touched seven years ago, that must have been around the time when Hubzilla 3 came out. At the same time, the official documentation was not only highly incomplete, but it was so outdated that parts of it were simply false. It partly referred to features that had been axed many years ago (tech levels) and features that simply were never there (four different mention styles), and parts of it even still spoke of Red. Thus, nobody even knew how to develop new themes for current Hubzilla.

That was when the community stepped in. @Der Pepe (Hubzilla) ⁂ ⚝ sat down and rewrote the entire help. @Scott M. Stolz not only started working on his NeuHub themes, but in the same process, he reverse-engineered Hubzilla's theming system to write documentation for theming Hubzilla which had never been written before AFAIK. Around that time, @????? was dabbling with specialised themes for certain purposes, e.g. one very clean theme for Hubzilla channels used as long-form blogs. Later on, @Saiwal joined the fray with his now-popular Utsukta themes.

Granted, Hubzilla still carries Redbasic around, not only as the default for new channels unless the admin chooses another one, but also as a fallback in case a new Hubzilla version doesn't support existing third-party themes anymore. The latter is becoming less likely as the Utsukta themes are being built against Hubzilla's development versions now. Besides, it's in Hubzilla's nature that everything on a hub is updated at the same time, including third-party repositories.

In general, the Hubzilla community is no longer that easily satisfied with a UI that "just works", and the devs have taken notice. Hubzilla 10.4, now a release candidate, will spruce up certain core parts of the UI. It will introduce a tree-style thread view as the new default instead of its current chronological view, something that Friendica, (streams) and Forte have had for significantly longer. That is, this is actually a side-effect of the introduction of "lazy loading" conversations to reduce the server workload. Also, upon user request, it will add a button to add images to comments.

If (streams) and Forte grow bigger, the same could happen there. They have two official themes to choose from, fairly new Fresh and an older version of Redbasic. However, they don't have a large enough community for all the same things to happen to them that happened to Hubzilla, although Pepe has said he'd rewrite the (streams) and Forte help as well, seeing as Mike had ripped them out entirely with no replacements as they were too outdated at that point. Maybe someone will even write a guide on how to adapt Hubzilla themes to (streams) and Forte.

That is, (streams) and Forte are both already the result of several years of UI and UX advancement and improvements and making them fit for a Mastodon-dominated Fediverse (where Hubzilla is still geared towards a Fediverse which it will dominate itself by the mid-to-late 2010s). This is stuff which can't be taken care of in themes because it concerns the UI engine itself, and it's partly tied deeply into the backend.

While Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte won't be able to do without their official themes anytime soon, the official themes don't significantly weigh them down. Still, they require some maintenance work to keep up with the backend.

Wouldn't Mastodon would be better if it specialised in developing apps, and outsourced the server side to people who know how to do back-end engineering?

This makes me wonder which half Mastodon would be willing to outsource. I think they'd rather hold on to the backend and pass all the frontends on. Of course, this would come with the advantage of the official Mastodon mobile app actually becoming somewhat decent rather than remaining the "we need an official app, no matter how" kluge that it is today.

CC: @Tim Chambers @rakoo

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #ActivityPub #Mastodon #Akkoma #AkkomaFE #Mangane #Akkomane #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte

@Strypey

You say this like it's a bad thing.

Not at all.

One advantage is, as you've said, that the backend and the Web frontend can have their own developers, development of both can largely be detached, and they can be upgraded separately from one another.

Separate Web frontends can be developed by people who actually know a thing or two about frontend development and UI design. I mean, look at the Web UIs of some all-in-one Fediverse server applications. They're often the digital counterpart of random knobs and switches poked through a piece of cardboard and labelled with a ball pen, just so that these knobs and switches are there. Sometimes they're the equivalent of expecting all kinds of end users to operate DIP switches, but hey, they're still better than soldering and unsoldering wires.

Another advantage is that server software for which alternative frontends exist does not have to drag its default frontend around. There are Mastodon servers with alternative frontends, but they still have to have the two official Web UIs installed (the default one and the Tweetdeck-style one) because they're firmly welded to the backend. I guess we all know what a heavyweight Mastodon is, and I'm certain that part of the weight is caused by the built-in Web UIs. In stark contrast, you can set up an Akkoma server with Mangane instead of Akkoma-FE, as in without having to also install Akkoma-FE.

By the way, Hubzilla is an interesting case here. Not only is its default UI very configurable, but Hubzilla itself is highly themeable, and third-party themes almost amount to entirely new UIs. At the same time, however, practically all official development efforts went only into the backend for most of its existence.

Any Hubzilla UI has to wrestle an immense wealth of features, and not exactly new features were added over time. This, however, caused Hubzilla's UI to gradually turn into a jumbled mess because some of the new UI elements were seemingly added in totally random places. Not only was the UI never cleaned up, but the default theme is perpetually stuck in 2012 (the name "Redbasic" says it all, it was made for Hubzilla when Hubzilla was still named Red), it was derived from an early Friendica theme, and even Friendica wasn't pretty back then. Also, the documentation was completely neglected.

So the situation last year was that there was only one working Hubzilla theme left, and that was Redbasic. It was the only theme that was even only upgraded to work with newer Hubzilla versions. There used to be other official themes, but they eventually ended up so outdated that they were removed altogether. @Sean Tilley's third-party themes were last touched seven years ago, that must have been around the time when Hubzilla 3 came out. At the same time, the official documentation was not only highly incomplete, but it was so outdated that parts of it were simply false. It partly referred to features that had been axed many years ago (tech levels) and features that simply were never there (four different mention styles), and parts of it even still spoke of Red. Thus, nobody even knew how to develop new themes for current Hubzilla.

That was when the community stepped in. @Der Pepe (Hubzilla) ⁂ ⚝ sat down and rewrote the entire help. @Scott M. Stolz not only started working on his NeuHub themes, but in the same process, he reverse-engineered Hubzilla's theming system to write documentation for theming Hubzilla which had never been written before AFAIK. Around that time, @????? was dabbling with specialised themes for certain purposes, e.g. one very clean theme for Hubzilla channels used as long-form blogs. Later on, @Saiwal joined the fray with his now-popular Utsukta themes.

Granted, Hubzilla still carries Redbasic around, not only as the default for new channels unless the admin chooses another one, but also as a fallback in case a new Hubzilla version doesn't support existing third-party themes anymore. The latter is becoming less likely as the Utsukta themes are being built against Hubzilla's development versions now. Besides, it's in Hubzilla's nature that everything on a hub is updated at the same time, including third-party repositories.

In general, the Hubzilla community is no longer that easily satisfied with a UI that "just works", and the devs have taken notice. Hubzilla 10.4, now a release candidate, will spruce up certain core parts of the UI. It will introduce a tree-style thread view as the new default instead of its current chronological view, something that Friendica, (streams) and Forte have had for significantly longer. That is, this is actually a side-effect of the introduction of "lazy loading" conversations to reduce the server workload. Also, upon user request, it will add a button to add images to comments.

If (streams) and Forte grow bigger, the same could happen there. They have two official themes to choose from, fairly new Fresh and an older version of Redbasic. However, they don't have a large enough community for all the same things to happen to them that happened to Hubzilla, although Pepe has said he'd rewrite the (streams) and Forte help as well, seeing as Mike had ripped them out entirely with no replacements as they were too outdated at that point. Maybe someone will even write a guide on how to adapt Hubzilla themes to (streams) and Forte.

That is, (streams) and Forte are both already the result of several years of UI and UX advancement and improvements and making them fit for a Mastodon-dominated Fediverse (where Hubzilla is still geared towards a Fediverse which it will dominate itself by the mid-to-late 2010s). This is stuff which can't be taken care of in themes because it concerns the UI engine itself, and it's partly tied deeply into the backend.

While Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte won't be able to do without their official themes anytime soon, the official themes don't significantly weigh them down. Still, they require some maintenance work to keep up with the backend.

Wouldn't Mastodon would be better if it specialised in developing apps, and outsourced the server side to people who know how to do back-end engineering?

This makes me wonder which half Mastodon would be willing to outsource. I think they'd rather hold on to the backend and pass all the frontends on. Of course, this would come with the advantage of the official Mastodon mobile app actually becoming somewhat decent rather than remaining the "we need an official app, no matter how" kluge that it is today.

CC: @Tim Chambers @rakoo

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #ActivityPub #Mastodon #Akkoma #AkkomaFE #Mangane #Akkomane #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte

@Strypey

You say this like it's a bad thing.

Not at all.

One advantage is, as you've said, that the backend and the Web frontend can have their own developers, development of both can largely be detached, and they can be upgraded separately from one another.

Separate Web frontends can be developed by people who actually know a thing or two about frontend development and UI design. I mean, look at the Web UIs of some all-in-one Fediverse server applications. They're often the digital counterpart of random knobs and switches poked through a piece of cardboard and labelled with a ball pen, just so that these knobs and switches are there. Sometimes they're the equivalent of expecting all kinds of end users to operate DIP switches, but hey, they're still better than soldering and unsoldering wires.

Another advantage is that server software for which alternative frontends exist does not have to drag its default frontend around. There are Mastodon servers with alternative frontends, but they still have to have the two official Web UIs installed (the default one and the Tweetdeck-style one) because they're firmly welded to the backend. I guess we all know what a heavyweight Mastodon is, and I'm certain that part of the weight is caused by the built-in Web UIs. In stark contrast, you can set up an Akkoma server with Mangane instead of Akkoma-FE, as in without having to also install Akkoma-FE.

By the way, Hubzilla is an interesting case here. Not only is its default UI very configurable, but Hubzilla itself is highly themeable, and third-party themes almost amount to entirely new UIs. At the same time, however, practically all official development efforts went only into the backend for most of its existence.

Any Hubzilla UI has to wrestle an immense wealth of features, and not exactly new features were added over time. This, however, caused Hubzilla's UI to gradually turn into a jumbled mess because some of the new UI elements were seemingly added in totally random places. Not only was the UI never cleaned up, but the default theme is perpetually stuck in 2012 (the name "Redbasic" says it all, it was made for Hubzilla when Hubzilla was still named Red), it was derived from an early Friendica theme, and even Friendica wasn't pretty back then. Also, the documentation was completely neglected.

So the situation last year was that there was only one working Hubzilla theme left, and that was Redbasic. It was the only theme that was even only upgraded to work with newer Hubzilla versions. There used to be other official themes, but they eventually ended up so outdated that they were removed altogether. @Sean Tilley's third-party themes were last touched seven years ago, that must have been around the time when Hubzilla 3 came out. At the same time, the official documentation was not only highly incomplete, but it was so outdated that parts of it were simply false. It partly referred to features that had been axed many years ago (tech levels) and features that simply were never there (four different mention styles), and parts of it even still spoke of Red. Thus, nobody even knew how to develop new themes for current Hubzilla.

That was when the community stepped in. @Der Pepe (Hubzilla) ⁂ ⚝ sat down and rewrote the entire help. @Scott M. Stolz not only started working on his NeuHub themes, but in the same process, he reverse-engineered Hubzilla's theming system to write documentation for theming Hubzilla which had never been written before AFAIK. Around that time, @????? was dabbling with specialised themes for certain purposes, e.g. one very clean theme for Hubzilla channels used as long-form blogs. Later on, @Saiwal joined the fray with his now-popular Utsukta themes.

Granted, Hubzilla still carries Redbasic around, not only as the default for new channels unless the admin chooses another one, but also as a fallback in case a new Hubzilla version doesn't support existing third-party themes anymore. The latter is becoming less likely as the Utsukta themes are being built against Hubzilla's development versions now. Besides, it's in Hubzilla's nature that everything on a hub is updated at the same time, including third-party repositories.

In general, the Hubzilla community is no longer that easily satisfied with a UI that "just works", and the devs have taken notice. Hubzilla 10.4, now a release candidate, will spruce up certain core parts of the UI. It will introduce a tree-style thread view as the new default instead of its current chronological view, something that Friendica, (streams) and Forte have had for significantly longer. That is, this is actually a side-effect of the introduction of "lazy loading" conversations to reduce the server workload. Also, upon user request, it will add a button to add images to comments.

If (streams) and Forte grow bigger, the same could happen there. They have two official themes to choose from, fairly new Fresh and an older version of Redbasic. However, they don't have a large enough community for all the same things to happen to them that happened to Hubzilla, although Pepe has said he'd rewrite the (streams) and Forte help as well, seeing as Mike had ripped them out entirely with no replacements as they were too outdated at that point. Maybe someone will even write a guide on how to adapt Hubzilla themes to (streams) and Forte.

That is, (streams) and Forte are both already the result of several years of UI and UX advancement and improvements and making them fit for a Mastodon-dominated Fediverse (where Hubzilla is still geared towards a Fediverse which it will dominate itself by the mid-to-late 2010s). This is stuff which can't be taken care of in themes because it concerns the UI engine itself, and it's partly tied deeply into the backend.

While Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte won't be able to do without their official themes anytime soon, the official themes don't significantly weigh them down. Still, they require some maintenance work to keep up with the backend.

Wouldn't Mastodon would be better if it specialised in developing apps, and outsourced the server side to people who know how to do back-end engineering?

This makes me wonder which half Mastodon would be willing to outsource. I think they'd rather hold on to the backend and pass all the frontends on. Of course, this would come with the advantage of the official Mastodon mobile app actually becoming somewhat decent rather than remaining the "we need an official app, no matter how" kluge that it is today.

CC: @Tim Chambers @rakoo

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #ActivityPub #Mastodon #Akkoma #AkkomaFE #Mangane #Akkomane #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte

@Strypey So Pleroma and Akkoma (which, for some reason, is missing from the list) actually use the ActivityPub C2S API to connect their frontends? Even though Pleroma predates ActivityPub and started out as an alternative GNU social frontend, much like Mastodon?

I mean, they're famous for having separate repositories for the server and the Web frontend (same name with "-FE" attached). And they're equally famous for having servers that forgo the official frontend in favour of third-party stuff, most notably Mangane.

So if Mangane actually makes use of that API rather than a homebrew *oma client API, it could be used as or, if need be, modified into a sparrings partner for API-testing purposes, not to mention that it's living proof that the API actually works. As it integrates with Pleroma and Akkoma that well, I've got my doubts that it only uses the Mastodon client API.

In the cases of (streams) and Forte which are almost the same software save for protocol support, the Web UI is much closer to the server backend, as flexible and modifyable it is. In their cases, the question would be whether they could be used to test just how far feature support in the ActivityPub C2S API can possibly go, maybe even whether it'd be possible to use the ActivityPub C2S API to build an almost fully-featured (streams)/Forte client app (except, of course, Web UI configuration and (streams)' per-channel ActivityPub switch which might cut the whole app off the server).

CC: @Tim Chambers @rakoo

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #ActivityPub #Pleroma #PleromaFE #Akkoma #AkkomaFE #Mangane #Akkomane #Streams #(streams) #Forte #API

@Strypey So Pleroma and Akkoma (which, for some reason, is missing from the list) actually use the ActivityPub C2S API to connect their frontends? Even though Pleroma predates ActivityPub and started out as an alternative GNU social frontend, much like Mastodon?

I mean, they're famous for having separate repositories for the server and the Web frontend (same name with "-FE" attached). And they're equally famous for having servers that forgo the official frontend in favour of third-party stuff, most notably Mangane.

So if Mangane actually makes use of that API rather than a homebrew *oma client API, it could be used as or, if need be, modified into a sparrings partner for API-testing purposes, not to mention that it's living proof that the API actually works. As it integrates with Pleroma and Akkoma that well, I've got my doubts that it only uses the Mastodon client API.

In the cases of (streams) and Forte which are almost the same software save for protocol support, the Web UI is much closer to the server backend, as flexible and modifyable it is. In their cases, the question would be whether they could be used to test just how far feature support in the ActivityPub C2S API can possibly go, maybe even whether it'd be possible to use the ActivityPub C2S API to build an almost fully-featured (streams)/Forte client app (except, of course, Web UI configuration and (streams)' per-channel ActivityPub switch which might cut the whole app off the server).

CC: @Tim Chambers @rakoo

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #ActivityPub #Pleroma #PleromaFE #Akkoma #AkkomaFE #Mangane #Akkomane #Streams #(streams) #Forte #API

@Strypey So Pleroma and Akkoma (which, for some reason, is missing from the list) actually use the ActivityPub C2S API to connect their frontends? Even though Pleroma predates ActivityPub and started out as an alternative GNU social frontend, much like Mastodon?

I mean, they're famous for having separate repositories for the server and the Web frontend (same name with "-FE" attached). And they're equally famous for having servers that forgo the official frontend in favour of third-party stuff, most notably Mangane.

So if Mangane actually makes use of that API rather than a homebrew *oma client API, it could be used as or, if need be, modified into a sparrings partner for API-testing purposes, not to mention that it's living proof that the API actually works. As it integrates with Pleroma and Akkoma that well, I've got my doubts that it only uses the Mastodon client API.

In the cases of (streams) and Forte which are almost the same software save for protocol support, the Web UI is much closer to the server backend, as flexible and modifyable it is. In their cases, the question would be whether they could be used to test just how far feature support in the ActivityPub C2S API can possibly go, maybe even whether it'd be possible to use the ActivityPub C2S API to build an almost fully-featured (streams)/Forte client app (except, of course, Web UI configuration and (streams)' per-channel ActivityPub switch which might cut the whole app off the server).

CC: @Tim Chambers @rakoo

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #ActivityPub #Pleroma #PleromaFE #Akkoma #AkkomaFE #Mangane #Akkomane #Streams #(streams) #Forte #API

@Strypey So Pleroma and Akkoma (which, for some reason, is missing from the list) actually use the ActivityPub C2S API to connect their frontends? Even though Pleroma predates ActivityPub and started out as an alternative GNU social frontend, much like Mastodon?

I mean, they're famous for having separate repositories for the server and the Web frontend (same name with "-FE" attached). And they're equally famous for having servers that forgo the official frontend in favour of third-party stuff, most notably Mangane.

So if Mangane actually makes use of that API rather than a homebrew *oma client API, it could be used as or, if need be, modified into a sparrings partner for API-testing purposes, not to mention that it's living proof that the API actually works. As it integrates with Pleroma and Akkoma that well, I've got my doubts that it only uses the Mastodon client API.

In the cases of (streams) and Forte which are almost the same software save for protocol support, the Web UI is much closer to the server backend, as flexible and modifyable it is. In their cases, the question would be whether they could be used to test just how far feature support in the ActivityPub C2S API can possibly go, maybe even whether it'd be possible to use the ActivityPub C2S API to build an almost fully-featured (streams)/Forte client app (except, of course, Web UI configuration and (streams)' per-channel ActivityPub switch which might cut the whole app off the server).

CC: @Tim Chambers @rakoo

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #ActivityPub #Pleroma #PleromaFE #Akkoma #AkkomaFE #Mangane #Akkomane #Streams #(streams) #Forte #API

What client do you use to browse #akkoma on #android ?

I prefer native apps as they are faster and use less data. My experience so far:

#moshidon (Using this app currently)
Lightweight, fast and beautiful. Issues with emoji reactions and notifications. Development seems to be stalled.

#pachli
Actively developed and really good. Some issues like scrolling of posts when you open the timeline and emoji reactions.

#phanpy (web)
Beautiful and minimalistic. Cannot schedule posts

#elk (web)
Beautiful but cannot login.

#mangane (web)
Default and minimal web UI for my instance. Can't figure out a way to browse lists.

#mastodon #fediverse

What client do you use to browse #akkoma on #android ?

I prefer native apps as they are faster and use less data. My experience so far:

#moshidon (Using this app currently)
Lightweight, fast and beautiful. Issues with emoji reactions and notifications. Development seems to be stalled.

#pachli
Actively developed and really good. Some issues like scrolling of posts when you open the timeline and emoji reactions.

#phanpy (web)
Beautiful and minimalistic. Cannot schedule posts

#elk (web)
Beautiful but cannot login.

#mangane (web)
Default and minimal web UI for my instance. Can't figure out a way to browse lists.

#mastodon #fediverse