#makejavascriptoptional — Public Fediverse posts
Live and recent posts from across the Fediverse tagged #makejavascriptoptional, aggregated by home.social.
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"Pages are rendered on the server. Posting, reading, settings and moderation all work with scripting off, and the composer keeps its plain textarea fallback."
Come to my arms! 😁
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"Pages are rendered on the server. Posting, reading, settings and moderation all work with scripting off, and the composer keeps its plain textarea fallback."
Come to my arms! 😁
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#HatTip to the Te Aka whānau for a website that works without JavaScript, including a simple and very effective internal search. Perhaps there are extra functions that depend on JS, but I don't notice their absence.
https://maoridictionary.co.nz/
This is proof that you don't JS nor a Trained #MOLE to make functional, easy-to-navigate websites.
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#HatTip to the Te Aka whānau for a website that works without JavaScript, including a simple and very effective internal search. Perhaps there are extra functions that depend on JS, but I don't notice their absence.
https://maoridictionary.co.nz/
This is proof that you don't JS nor a Trained #MOLE to make functional, easy-to-navigate websites.
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Most of the NZ Parliament web pages consist of text, links and... that's it;
https://bills.parliament.nz/v/2/fbbb3fcc-4eb6-4d7f-39a8-08dea63eeea9
Except for the logos of 4 predatory social media platforms (which should never have been there), there's not even much in the way of images. This could and should to be a simple static site; HTML and CSS, no JavaScript required.
Instead, it's not only serving a bunch of JS from its own domain, but also 2 Goggle domains, a CDN, and unpkg.com. Why?
#MakeJavaScriptOptional! Especially in #GovtIT
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Most of the NZ Parliament web pages consist of text, links and... that's it;
https://bills.parliament.nz/v/2/fbbb3fcc-4eb6-4d7f-39a8-08dea63eeea9
Except for the logos of 4 predatory social media platforms (which should never have been there), there's not even much in the way of images. This could and should to be a simple static site; HTML and CSS, no JavaScript required.
Instead, it's not only serving a bunch of JS from its own domain, but also 2 Goggle domains, a CDN, and unpkg.com. Why?
#MakeJavaScriptOptional! Especially in #GovtIT
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@kidlightbulbs FYI when I browse unstream.stream with JS turned off, I see a blank page. Are you familiar with HDA?
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@kidlightbulbs FYI when I browse unstream.stream with JS turned off, I see a blank page. Are you familiar with HDA?
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I just tried to volunteer for the repair cafe in The Tron, and I this experience all over again;
I fought my way through a thicket of 3rd-party domains serving proprietary JS, and then had to do a bunch of unpaid MOLE Training for Goggle in order to submit the contact form. In the end it seemed to have submitted, but I got no feedback confirming that.
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#MakeJavaScriptOptional #RepairCafes #RepairCafeAotearoa #HDA
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I just tried to volunteer for the repair cafe in The Tron, and I this experience all over again;
I fought my way through a thicket of 3rd-party domains serving proprietary JS, and then had to do a bunch of unpaid MOLE Training for Goggle in order to submit the contact form. In the end it seemed to have submitted, but I got no feedback confirming that.
(1/2)
#MakeJavaScriptOptional #RepairCafes #RepairCafeAotearoa #HDA
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Before BorgSoft bought GH, it was possible to see all text and images in public repos without logging in or running their JS.
@redstarfish
> So, I would say lack of awarenessIf GH had always been that way, maybe. But changing it to be that way? That strongly suggests it's intentional. A way to force people to run their JS, which is exactly the opposite of the direction the web needs to be going in.
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Before BorgSoft bought GH, it was possible to see all text and images in public repos without logging in or running their JS.
@redstarfish
> So, I would say lack of awarenessIf GH had always been that way, maybe. But changing it to be that way? That strongly suggests it's intentional. A way to force people to run their JS, which is exactly the opposite of the direction the web needs to be going in.
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A reminder that if I browse your "website" with JavaScript turned off, and it doesn't at least show me text, images, basic CSS layout, and working links, it's *not a website*. If you put stuff up on a web address, please make sure there's a website there.
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A reminder that if I browse your "website" with JavaScript turned off, and it doesn't at least show me text, images, basic CSS layout, and working links, it's *not a website*. If you put stuff up on a web address, please make sure there's a website there.
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I'm trying to archive a web page on FarceBook using archive.is, using a mobile browser and a cell network connection. So far it's taken at least half an hour and it's still going. WTF?!
All I want to see is the text and maybe the images FFS. #MakeJavaScriptOptional!
(1/?)
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I'm trying to archive a web page on FarceBook using archive.is, using a mobile browser and a cell network connection. So far it's taken at least half an hour and it's still going. WTF?!
All I want to see is the text and maybe the images FFS. #MakeJavaScriptOptional!
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@alcinnz
> I get the impression in trying kill they turned the web into Flash.
An over-complex inscrutable hard-to-secure system pushing DRM on usModern JavaScript includes all the evils of Flash, except being forced to knowingly install a proprietary plugin in your browser. Now almost every website *is* a proprietary plugin, installed in your browser without your knowledge.
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@alcinnz
> I get the impression in trying kill they turned the web into Flash.
An over-complex inscrutable hard-to-secure system pushing DRM on usModern JavaScript includes all the evils of Flash, except being forced to knowingly install a proprietary plugin in your browser. Now almost every website *is* a proprietary plugin, installed in your browser without your knowledge.
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"The web used to be a wonderful way to share information.
Web apps and mandatory JavaScript have turned it into the worst app store.
It is time to separate the WWWonderful from the WWWorst practices."
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"The web used to be a wonderful way to share information.
Web apps and mandatory JavaScript have turned it into the worst app store.
It is time to separate the WWWonderful from the WWWorst practices."
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When modern web browsers encounter a website served only over HTTP (not HTTPS), they stonewall the person browsing with an error page. I really wish that they'd just browse the page with JavaScript off, and give an error message saying so.
Bonus points for extracting at least the text, links, and images, from sites that depend on JS to display those. But really, people shouldn't ever make sites like that, what I call "j-sites"
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When modern web browsers encounter a website served only over HTTP (not HTTPS), they stonewall the person browsing with an error page. I really wish that they'd just browse the page with JavaScript off, and give an error message saying so.
Bonus points for extracting at least the text, links, and images, from sites that depend on JS to display those. But really, people shouldn't ever make sites like that, what I call "j-sites"
(1/2)
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I accidentally archived a copy of the 404 error page on GritHub;
As it processed, I was marvelling at the amount of JavaScript my browser has to load, just to tell me GritHub can't find the page I'm looking for.
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I accidentally archived a copy of the 404 error page on GritHub;
As it processed, I was marvelling at the amount of JavaScript my browser has to load, just to tell me GritHub can't find the page I'm looking for.
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IMHO there ought to robust privacy laws, in every jurisdiction, that ban this kind of rampant DataFarming. Am I the only person who continues to be shocked by the fact that this kind of practice not only considered acceptable by the industry, but normal?!?
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IMHO there ought to robust privacy laws, in every jurisdiction, that ban this kind of rampant DataFarming. Am I the only person who continues to be shocked by the fact that this kind of practice not only considered acceptable by the industry, but normal?!?
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Stefan Korn is not wrong that public service website need to be simple static sites. Which can be accessed by voice assistants just as easily as web browsers without JavaScript (#MakeJavaScriptOptional!).
He's just wrong that they're not already designed that way.
He either doesn't know about NZ government website standards like Web Accessibility Standard 1.1;
https://digital.govt.nz/standards-and-guidance/
... or he's hoping that you don't.
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Stefan Korn is not wrong that public service website need to be simple static sites. Which can be accessed by voice assistants just as easily as web browsers without JavaScript (#MakeJavaScriptOptional!).
He's just wrong that they're not already designed that way.
He either doesn't know about NZ government website standards like Web Accessibility Standard 1.1;
https://digital.govt.nz/standards-and-guidance/
... or he's hoping that you don't.
(2/?)
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This video sums up your frustration quite nicely @paddyduke;
https://peertube.nz/w/ocxpCzSfdLTVDZ2aVdo47v
I highly recommend the #NoScript add-on. Not only does it filter out a lot of this garbage, which depends on running JavaScript from third-party domains, it allows stops a lot of tracking that goes on in the background.
Before I discovered NS, my laptops used to routinely crash. Brought down by the ludicrous amount of memory used, by all the JS running in the browser tabs I had open.
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This video sums up your frustration quite nicely @paddyduke;
https://peertube.nz/w/ocxpCzSfdLTVDZ2aVdo47v
I highly recommend the #NoScript add-on. Not only does it filter out a lot of this garbage, which depends on running JavaScript from third-party domains, it allows stops a lot of tracking that goes on in the background.
Before I discovered NS, my laptops used to routinely crash. Brought down by the ludicrous amount of memory used, by all the JS running in the browser tabs I had open.
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@brewsterkahle
> defacement of our website via JS libraryI sympathise with the good folks at archive.org, who do a fantastic and underappreciated job, and I don't mean to kick them while they're down.
But...
Using scripts in your website that your web team haven't audited, either directly or as part of a rabbithole of JS dependencies, opens you up to exactly this kind of shitfuckery.
Yet another good reason to #MakeJavaScriptOptional!
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@brewsterkahle
> defacement of our website via JS libraryI sympathise with the good folks at archive.org, who do a fantastic and underappreciated job, and I don't mean to kick them while they're down.
But...
Using scripts in your website that your web team haven't audited, either directly or as part of a rabbithole of JS dependencies, opens you up to exactly this kind of shitfuckery.
Yet another good reason to #MakeJavaScriptOptional!
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A button on a website only need to be a graphic with a link. One of the simplest uses of HTML. If I had a dollar for every time that clicking a button on a website required me to run JavaScript from a third-party domain (often one controlled by Goggle or another DataFarmer), I'd have a very generous funding pool for a campaign to...
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A button on a website only need to be a graphic with a link. One of the simplest uses of HTML. If I had a dollar for every time that clicking a button on a website required me to run JavaScript from a third-party domain (often one controlled by Goggle or another DataFarmer), I'd have a very generous funding pool for a campaign to...
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Any web devs out there interested in mucking in on some #MakeJavaScriptOptional projects?
What I have in mind is making a shortlist of existing j-sites (JavaScript sites) that do something vaguely useful for the visitor, but try to pull scripts from at least a dozen third-party domains in the process. Then rebuild them as interactive websites (HTML/CSS). Using browser scripts only when absolutely necessary, and serving them only from the primary domain name.
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Any web devs out there interested in mucking in on some #MakeJavaScriptOptional projects?
What I have in mind is making a shortlist of existing j-sites (JavaScript sites) that do something vaguely useful for the visitor, but try to pull scripts from at least a dozen third-party domains in the process. Then rebuild them as interactive websites (HTML/CSS). Using browser scripts only when absolutely necessary, and serving them only from the primary domain name.
(1/2)
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Imagine you subscribe to a newsletter from a community group. But in order to get it, a courier has to come to your house with it in a box, massively increasing the resource cost compared to posting it.
You can't just accept the box at the door though. The courier has to come into your house and follow some instructions, and so do a bunch of other people who work for companies totally unrelated to the community group you want the newsletter for.
This is a jsite.
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Imagine you subscribe to a newsletter from a community group. But in order to get it, a courier has to come to your house with it in a box, massively increasing the resource cost compared to posting it.
You can't just accept the box at the door though. The courier has to come into your house and follow some instructions, and so do a bunch of other people who work for companies totally unrelated to the community group you want the newsletter for.
This is a jsite.
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Yet another jsite (JavaScript site) in place of a website, ie a set of online documents formatted using the latest specs for HTTP/ CSS3 etc. Utterly broken when used in a web browser, which is (checks notes) exactly the thing it's designed to be used with.
*Unless* you allow JS to run on your computer from not only the domain name of the site itself (borderline), but also from no less than 9 other web domains, and probably more.
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Yet another jsite (JavaScript site) in place of a website, ie a set of online documents formatted using the latest specs for HTTP/ CSS3 etc. Utterly broken when used in a web browser, which is (checks notes) exactly the thing it's designed to be used with.
*Unless* you allow JS to run on your computer from not only the domain name of the site itself (borderline), but also from no less than 9 other web domains, and probably more.
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"While we've done our best to make the core functionality of this site accessible without JavaScript, it will work better with it enabled. Please consider turning it on!"
This is *so* much better than the blank pages some websites serve if my web browser requests a HTML/CSS only page, or the mysterious pronouncements from one-page brochureware sites that;
"this app does not work without JavaScript"
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"While we've done our best to make the core functionality of this site accessible without JavaScript, it will work better with it enabled. Please consider turning it on!"
This is *so* much better than the blank pages some websites serve if my web browser requests a HTML/CSS only page, or the mysterious pronouncements from one-page brochureware sites that;
"this app does not work without JavaScript"
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@mahryekuh
> websites that also work on browsers NOT Google Chrome... with graceful fallback when the client can't run JavaScript.
> Forcing anyone to use Google's glorified spyware is not cool
It's like we learned nothing from the dominance of MS Internet Exploiter in the 90s.
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@mahryekuh
> websites that also work on browsers NOT Google Chrome... with graceful fallback when the client can't run JavaScript.
> Forcing anyone to use Google's glorified spyware is not cool
It's like we learned nothing from the dominance of MS Internet Exploiter in the 90s.
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Does anyone know of a tool webmasters can use to check scripts they intend to deploy on their website, to see if they load scripts from any third-party domains?
I know they can use #NoScript to retrospectively check once the site is on a test server. But it would be even better if they could check scripts while they're deciding whether or not to spend time incorporating them into their site design.
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Does anyone know of a tool webmasters can use to check scripts they intend to deploy on their website, to see if they load scripts from any third-party domains?
I know they can use #NoScript to retrospectively check once the site is on a test server. But it would be even better if they could check scripts while they're deciding whether or not to spend time incorporating them into their site design.
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@migurski
> What Progressive Web Apps Can Do Today is a great demo of all the stuff possible right now in a web browserDoes all this depend on a spaghetti of badly-engineered, memory-leaking JavaScript? Or can it be done with pure HTML/CSS?
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@migurski
> What Progressive Web Apps Can Do Today is a great demo of all the stuff possible right now in a web browserDoes all this depend on a spaghetti of badly-engineered, memory-leaking JavaScript? Or can it be done with pure HTML/CSS?
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Seriously web developers, do you really need to pull third-party JavaScript from a Goggle-controlled domain (gstatic.com) just to make a 'Submit' button work?
#KoFi joins the JS hall of shame;
https://ko-fi.com/Account/Login -
Seriously web developers, do you really need to pull third-party JavaScript from a Goggle-controlled domain (gstatic.com) just to make a 'Submit' button work?
#KoFi joins the JS hall of shame;
https://ko-fi.com/Account/Login -
Looks like GMail has discontinued their no-JS option. Yet another reason to move that last GMaul account to another email provider, extract any data of mine Goggle is holding, and delete all my accounts there.
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Looks like GMail has discontinued their no-JS option. Yet another reason to move that last GMaul account to another email provider, extract any data of mine Goggle is holding, and delete all my accounts there.
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Here's another textbook example of JavaScript abuse:
https://www.virtualninja.co.nz/
This site is so sluggish it's almost unusable on my mobile. It's also just a bunch of text, images, and styles that could easily be done with pure HTML/CSS. The map could be a static image linked to an online map, rather than a GoggleMaps embed.
How can we stop marketing companies abusing the web like this? Making stuff that drinks batteries and mobile data, for no good reason.
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Here's another textbook example of JavaScript abuse:
https://www.virtualninja.co.nz/
This site is so sluggish it's almost unusable on my mobile. It's also just a bunch of text, images, and styles that could easily be done with pure HTML/CSS. The map could be a static image linked to an online map, rather than a GoggleMaps embed.
How can we stop marketing companies abusing the web like this? Making stuff that drinks batteries and mobile data, for no good reason.
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Is #Mastodon really viable for the small to medium-sized operator?
We assert, "NO!"
We did something simple. With a Mastodon tab open we hit Ctrl+Shift+E to get the Network Tab. With an inactive thread open in Mastodon, we went to *another website* to read an article.
An hour passes and what we discovered shocked us. Mastodon somehow justified sending us 55MB of data. The #NetworkTab said 55MB over 1500 requests (53MB transferred).
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Is #Mastodon really viable for the small to medium-sized operator?
We assert, "NO!"
We did something simple. With a Mastodon tab open we hit Ctrl+Shift+E to get the Network Tab. With an inactive thread open in Mastodon, we went to *another website* to read an article.
An hour passes and what we discovered shocked us. Mastodon somehow justified sending us 55MB of data. The #NetworkTab said 55MB over 1500 requests (53MB transferred).
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This might be the worst webpage we've seen for a linux distro, yet!
How would you design it without #Javascript?
#distroWatch #makeJavascriptOptional #manjaro #linux #webDev #dialogBox
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"JavaScript is required to enter the depths of HELL!"
Ain't that the truth ; )
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Seriously, the main thing the osf.io website seems to do is display text and images. Why does whoever is running it deem it necessary to use JavaScript at all? Let alone third-party JS from;
* cloudflare.com
* cos.io
* google-analytics.com
* gstatic.com
* plaudit.pub
* ravenjs.com
* sentry.io.. .and probably more.
Just to show up text and images. Which HTML/CSS could do the day the web was invented.
All that computation makes heat. Think of the climate people!