#mastodonhoa — Public Fediverse posts
Live and recent posts from across the Fediverse tagged #mastodonhoa, aggregated by home.social.
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Normalize ridiculing Fediverse scolds.
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Normalize ridiculing Fediverse scolds.
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FWIW, I'm in favour of alt-text. I write *good* alt-text for all images I post.
But telling someone else they must do so, and must do it the way you want them to do it, is presumptuous and entitled. You're not their mother. #MYOB.
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FWIW, I'm in favour of alt-text. I write *good* alt-text for all images I post.
But telling someone else they must do so, and must do it the way you want them to do it, is presumptuous and entitled. You're not their mother. #MYOB.
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> reported your account for multiple insult occasions
"Mastodon HOA Member of the Month" nomination right there.
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> reported your account for multiple insult occasions
"Mastodon HOA Member of the Month" nomination right there.
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When you realize the #llm hatred is just a proxy battle for endstage capitalism with a technofeudalist overlay, all of this thread makes a lot of sense. Just s/llm/endstage capitalism/g the threads.
https://infosec.exchange/@crankylinuxuser/116930386027592192
And I see a lot of Ned Ludd being invoked. And most don't know his story, and believe the anti-tech propaganda. The propaganda was that he hated tech and destroyed the machines. This was the lies the capitalists told, which I'm seeing repeated here.
In reality, he wanted his fellow comrades to own the means to production also ala Marx. When that didn't work, he only then relegated to destruction.
And its a heresy against the #MastodonHOA to say that #LLMs are useful. And they very much are, to a point. But its chicken-little types screaming the sky is falling who runs the roost here, lest they shout you down.
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When you realize the #llm hatred is just a proxy battle for endstage capitalism with a technofeudalist overlay, all of this thread makes a lot of sense. Just s/llm/endstage capitalism/g the threads.
https://infosec.exchange/@crankylinuxuser/116930386027592192
And I see a lot of Ned Ludd being invoked. And most don't know his story, and believe the anti-tech propaganda. The propaganda was that he hated tech and destroyed the machines. This was the lies the capitalists told, which I'm seeing repeated here.
In reality, he wanted his fellow comrades to own the means to production also ala Marx. When that didn't work, he only then relegated to destruction.
And its a heresy against the #MastodonHOA to say that #LLMs are useful. And they very much are, to a point. But its chicken-little types screaming the sky is falling who runs the roost here, lest they shout you down.
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Oh, I get what the claim is. I reject it.
Some people have always wanted to own or control others. LLMs are just an expression of that innate human drive for those types of people. If not LLMs, they'd do it (and likely actively do) to other humans.
The claim is yet another thing to grasp for in trying to hate on #LLM tools. The #MastodonHOA is a perfect example of straining to find anything by association to then hate on.
LLMs do have good uses, unlike what the haters claim. But it's also probabilistic and full of various errors (some very insidious), unlike the ai techbros claim.
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Oh, I get what the claim is. I reject it.
Some people have always wanted to own or control others. LLMs are just an expression of that innate human drive for those types of people. If not LLMs, they'd do it (and likely actively do) to other humans.
The claim is yet another thing to grasp for in trying to hate on #LLM tools. The #MastodonHOA is a perfect example of straining to find anything by association to then hate on.
LLMs do have good uses, unlike what the haters claim. But it's also probabilistic and full of various errors (some very insidious), unlike the ai techbros claim.
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Yeah, you're crossing in dangerous territory with these #mastodonHOA anti-ai-at-all-costs folks.
These people are doing the techbro's job for them, by making these grandiose "AI will take all jobs" and shit. Management also sees that signal and believes the techbros because the anti-ai is that scared.
The answer to all of this is education and AI literacy. "Lower Artificial Intelligence Literacy Predicts Greater AI Receptivity" is the paper and reason why.
https://osf.io/preprints/psyarxiv/t9u8g_v1
Turns out illiterate folks (to AI) looks magical and always true. But to professional literate folks, its a real accelerating tool. But how dare you say that.
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Yeah, you're crossing in dangerous territory with these #mastodonHOA anti-ai-at-all-costs folks.
These people are doing the techbro's job for them, by making these grandiose "AI will take all jobs" and shit. Management also sees that signal and believes the techbros because the anti-ai is that scared.
The answer to all of this is education and AI literacy. "Lower Artificial Intelligence Literacy Predicts Greater AI Receptivity" is the paper and reason why.
https://osf.io/preprints/psyarxiv/t9u8g_v1
Turns out illiterate folks (to AI) looks magical and always true. But to professional literate folks, its a real accelerating tool. But how dare you say that.
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Trying to blur the line by adopting the industry "lets go and relable existing, established technologies as AI to confuse everyone" only marks you as a shill for the industry, and not someone having an intellectually honest conversation wtih real questions.
Thats the problem. I think the same of the hardcore #mastodonHOA AI haters. I think they're also shills for the techbro corpo-LLM crowd, as the 'opposite side of the coin' telling people like chicken little that the sky is falling. And managers/C-levels eat that up as well and use the frightened masses also as social proof, that LLMs can indeed replace people. (Hint: they cant due to a variety of impossible-to-solve problems)
Ive been dabbling in AI and autogenerated works since 2005, way before it was vogue with the "Attention is All You Need" paper in 2017. I saw the writing on the wall with Word2Vec as a way to see Leibniz' dream of calculus with words. That was 2012 - beginning of tokenization.
And now, I see these grandiose claims that basically dont apply at all to us folks doing 100% local operations.
The only claim that holds water is "LLM data is trained from stolen knowledge"... I remember back in the old cyber days 'Information wanted to be free'. And yes, for-profit copyright violations is normally a criminal charge, but not if youre big enough. I still remember 2 friends who got it with $5000 "settlements" for fucking Metallica on Napster. Basically I dont care one whit at this time over copyright. But I still wont violate it for profit. Thats still wrong.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y85nqc2zm7M
This is a 1.5h long video. I highly believe that Dr Fatima's answer of education, not abstinence, is the correct way forward. If thousands can easily point towards LLM failures, then that gets seen for the probabilistic programming they are. And demystified things realllly lose their luster and ooh-shiny factor. -
Trying to blur the line by adopting the industry "lets go and relable existing, established technologies as AI to confuse everyone" only marks you as a shill for the industry, and not someone having an intellectually honest conversation wtih real questions.
Thats the problem. I think the same of the hardcore #mastodonHOA AI haters. I think they're also shills for the techbro corpo-LLM crowd, as the 'opposite side of the coin' telling people like chicken little that the sky is falling. And managers/C-levels eat that up as well and use the frightened masses also as social proof, that LLMs can indeed replace people. (Hint: they cant due to a variety of impossible-to-solve problems)
Ive been dabbling in AI and autogenerated works since 2005, way before it was vogue with the "Attention is All You Need" paper in 2017. I saw the writing on the wall with Word2Vec as a way to see Leibniz' dream of calculus with words. That was 2012 - beginning of tokenization.
And now, I see these grandiose claims that basically dont apply at all to us folks doing 100% local operations.
The only claim that holds water is "LLM data is trained from stolen knowledge"... I remember back in the old cyber days 'Information wanted to be free'. And yes, for-profit copyright violations is normally a criminal charge, but not if youre big enough. I still remember 2 friends who got it with $5000 "settlements" for fucking Metallica on Napster. Basically I dont care one whit at this time over copyright. But I still wont violate it for profit. Thats still wrong.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y85nqc2zm7M
This is a 1.5h long video. I highly believe that Dr Fatima's answer of education, not abstinence, is the correct way forward. If thousands can easily point towards LLM failures, then that gets seen for the probabilistic programming they are. And demystified things realllly lose their luster and ooh-shiny factor. -
@Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange: By the way, forgot to mention this:
There are already Mastodon servers whose rules explicitly forbid common users policing others. Only a) the actual server rules must be enforced, b) only by actual server personnel and c) only against users on the same server.
This means if you are not a moderator, and/or if you police a rule or "rule" that is not part of the server rules, and/or if you police someone from another server, you may be sanctioned for it.
I dare say the very existence of this rule says a lot, even though it isn't nearly as widespread as I wish it was.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Mastodon #MastodonHOA -
Does anyone know the gender breakdown of the Mastodon HOA?
Is it 100% guys? It's 100% guys, isn't it?
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Does anyone know the gender breakdown of the Mastodon HOA?
Is it 100% guys? It's 100% guys, isn't it?
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Sorry you have to deal with it.
It's the Mastodon HOA. They're the online version of the sanctimonious pricks who have to walk up to strangers in public to tell them they're breaking some rule or other, when it has absolutely no effect on them or anyone else. You know, the kind who wonder why they never get invited to parties.
Try to ignore them. Mute and block away! It's restorative.
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Sorry you have to deal with it.
It's the Mastodon HOA. They're the online version of the sanctimonious pricks who have to walk up to strangers in public to tell them they're breaking some rule or other, when it has absolutely no effect on them or anyone else. You know, the kind who wonder why they never get invited to parties.
Try to ignore them. Mute and block away! It's restorative.
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@hosh The alt-text police of the Mastodon Home Owners' Association (Mastodon HOA) have a tendency to be overzealous. And they don't talk to each other. They all act for themselves as lone wolves with exactly no coordination amongst each other whatsoever. You never know what kinds of rules they whip up for themselves.
Chances are that they only let image descriptions count that come directly with the image. If they acknowledge an image description outside the alt-text, it must be in the post itself. Not as an external link, but the description text itself.
Besides, at least some in the Mastodon HOA have problems with external links. And I don't just mean that they don't trust embedded links whose URL they can't see in plain sight, the kind that Hubzilla can create and Mastodon can't (not that Hubzilla couldn't fake a plain-sight link by embedding a different URL than the visible).
I don't mean either that probably a majority of Mastodon users don't even recognise embedded links without a visible URL as such because they don't know that such a thing can exist in the Fediverse, because Mastodon can't make them.
No, what I mean is the notion that external links for explanations are inherently bad from an accessibility point of view. "Mastodon" (as in how Mastodon users experience the Fediverse, i.e. the Mastodon Web UI or any of the popular mobile phone apps) is sufficiently accessible. But the Web outside of "Mastodon" (same definition again) may not be accessible enough.
A few years ago, I've literally read a Mastodon toot in which someone said that explanations must not be linked to. Linked websites have a risk of not being accessible. Explanations must always be directly in the same post. Apparently, they thought that everything and anything can be explained and broken down until everyone understands it within 500 characters.
This is also why Mastodon users tend to explain their images in the alt-text. It's only there where they have at least halfway enough characters for an explanation, 1,500 per image as opposed to usually only 500 in the post text. (On Mastodon, much unlike Hubzilla, the alt-text is a separate database field that exists separately for each of the up to four images per message.)
That is, explanations must never go into the alt-text because there are people who cannot open alt-texts to read them. But nobody on Mastodon knows that.
It should be obvious that what counts for explanations counts for visual descriptions just as well.
And in fact, regarding Hubzilla articles, they're actually right. I've once pointed an actually blind screen reader user to an article on my Hubzilla channel. She said she couldn't even navigate the Web interface. She literally couldn't get to the text body of the article to have it read out by her screen reader.
Hubzilla's Web interface, no matter which app is opened, is not accessible. It does not work with screen readers. It's largely still stuck in 2012 when nobdy made any ruckus about the accessibility of hobbyist Web projects.
The only reason why at least some blind or visually-impaired users can read our Hubzilla posts and comments and DMs is because they're all on Mastodon, and they read our content either on Mastodon's Web UI or a Mastodon app that supports screen readers. But they do not read our content at the source. Because they can't.
I actually took into consideration linking to my long image descriptions. But my idea was not to link to a Hubzilla article, nor to a Hubzilla wiki or a Hubzilla card. No, my idea was to write a plain HTML document, upload it to my file space and link to that.
I've dropped that idea for various reasons:- Generally, still, external links are frowned upon.
- I don't know if plain HTML is accessible without a CSS. And I can't add a CSS to this HTML if the HTML document is not served to the recipient by a Web server, but by a file server.
- I don't know how Google Chrome on Android or Safari on an iPhone will react when they access an HTML document on a file space. Will they display it as a website? Or will they download it onto the device as a file without opening it because, again, it is served to them not by a Web server, but by a file server?
- Mobile users dislike opening websites from apps because they dislike their browser popping open. And on Mastodon, much unlike Hubzilla, almost everyone is on a phone and a dedicated app almost all the time.
- This also means that mobile users would have the image and the description in two separate apps. The image in their Mastodon app, the description in their browser.
- I would need much more description.
Right now, when I have multiple images, my long descriptions consist of a preamble that contains all necessary explanations and, if applicable, visual descriptions of elements that are common to all images. The individual descriptions for each image follow.
But if I had one image description file per image, then each image description would need the whole preamble included. I can't just add the preamble to the first description file.
What if someone opens the third description file first? They'll only have a very incomplete description. And linking to the first description file is inconvenient. I would have to know the URL of the first file before completing and uploading the other files because I'd have to include the URL of the first file in them. And the users would have to have three documents open (the image post, the description of the image they're interested in, the description of the first image with the preamble) just to experience one image. Spread across two phone apps.
And that's why I can't put my additional long description in an external document.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta #AltTextPolice #MastodonHOA #CharacterLimit #CharacterLimits #CharacterLimitMeta #CWCharacterLimitMeta #500Characters #MastodonCulture -
@hosh The alt-text police of the Mastodon Home Owners' Association (Mastodon HOA) have a tendency to be overzealous. And they don't talk to each other. They all act for themselves as lone wolves with exactly no coordination amongst each other whatsoever. You never know what kinds of rules they whip up for themselves.
Chances are that they only let image descriptions count that come directly with the image. If they acknowledge an image description outside the alt-text, it must be in the post itself. Not as an external link, but the description text itself.
Besides, at least some in the Mastodon HOA have problems with external links. And I don't just mean that they don't trust embedded links whose URL they can't see in plain sight, the kind that Hubzilla can create and Mastodon can't (not that Hubzilla couldn't fake a plain-sight link by embedding a different URL than the visible).
I don't mean either that probably a majority of Mastodon users don't even recognise embedded links without a visible URL as such because they don't know that such a thing can exist in the Fediverse, because Mastodon can't make them.
No, what I mean is the notion that external links for explanations are inherently bad from an accessibility point of view. "Mastodon" (as in how Mastodon users experience the Fediverse, i.e. the Mastodon Web UI or any of the popular mobile phone apps) is sufficiently accessible. But the Web outside of "Mastodon" (same definition again) may not be accessible enough.
A few years ago, I've literally read a Mastodon toot in which someone said that explanations must not be linked to. Linked websites have a risk of not being accessible. Explanations must always be directly in the same post. Apparently, they thought that everything and anything can be explained and broken down until everyone understands it within 500 characters.
This is also why Mastodon users tend to explain their images in the alt-text. It's only there where they have at least halfway enough characters for an explanation, 1,500 per image as opposed to usually only 500 in the post text. (On Mastodon, much unlike Hubzilla, the alt-text is a separate database field that exists separately for each of the up to four images per message.)
That is, explanations must never go into the alt-text because there are people who cannot open alt-texts to read them. But nobody on Mastodon knows that.
It should be obvious that what counts for explanations counts for visual descriptions just as well.
And in fact, regarding Hubzilla articles, they're actually right. I've once pointed an actually blind screen reader user to an article on my Hubzilla channel. She said she couldn't even navigate the Web interface. She literally couldn't get to the text body of the article to have it read out by her screen reader.
Hubzilla's Web interface, no matter which app is opened, is not accessible. It does not work with screen readers. It's largely still stuck in 2012 when nobdy made any ruckus about the accessibility of hobbyist Web projects.
The only reason why at least some blind or visually-impaired users can read our Hubzilla posts and comments and DMs is because they're all on Mastodon, and they read our content either on Mastodon's Web UI or a Mastodon app that supports screen readers. But they do not read our content at the source. Because they can't.
I actually took into consideration linking to my long image descriptions. But my idea was not to link to a Hubzilla article, nor to a Hubzilla wiki or a Hubzilla card. No, my idea was to write a plain HTML document, upload it to my file space and link to that.
I've dropped that idea for various reasons:- Generally, still, external links are frowned upon.
- I don't know if plain HTML is accessible without a CSS. And I can't add a CSS to this HTML if the HTML document is not served to the recipient by a Web server, but by a file server.
- I don't know how Google Chrome on Android or Safari on an iPhone will react when they access an HTML document on a file space. Will they display it as a website? Or will they download it onto the device as a file without opening it because, again, it is served to them not by a Web server, but by a file server?
- Mobile users dislike opening websites from apps because they dislike their browser popping open. And on Mastodon, much unlike Hubzilla, almost everyone is on a phone and a dedicated app almost all the time.
- This also means that mobile users would have the image and the description in two separate apps. The image in their Mastodon app, the description in their browser.
- I would need much more description.
Right now, when I have multiple images, my long descriptions consist of a preamble that contains all necessary explanations and, if applicable, visual descriptions of elements that are common to all images. The individual descriptions for each image follow.
But if I had one image description file per image, then each image description would need the whole preamble included. I can't just add the preamble to the first description file.
What if someone opens the third description file first? They'll only have a very incomplete description. And linking to the first description file is inconvenient. I would have to know the URL of the first file before completing and uploading the other files because I'd have to include the URL of the first file in them. And the users would have to have three documents open (the image post, the description of the image they're interested in, the description of the first image with the preamble) just to experience one image. Spread across two phone apps.
And that's why I can't put my additional long description in an external document.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta #AltTextPolice #MastodonHOA #CharacterLimit #CharacterLimits #CharacterLimitMeta #CWCharacterLimitMeta #500Characters #MastodonCulture -
CW: Long posts vs insufficiently described images: I can't win either way; CW: long (over 3,500 characters), Fediverse meta, Fediverse-beyond-Mastodon meta, alt-text meta, image description meta, content warning meta, character limit meta
On the one hand, I have to go out of my way and write two image descriptions for each one of my original images. One is short and goes into the alt-text, and I'm going to limit all my future alt-text to a maximum of 512 characters (otherwise users on Misskey, Sharkey etc. will believe I haven't written any alt-text because they won't receive any due to a bug).
The other one is enormous degrees of magnitudes longer than anything most Fediverse users have ever read in the Fediverse. It also contains all explanations necessary to understand the image and its description, and if there's text anywhere within the borders of the image, readable or not, it contains verbatim transcripts of said text.
The nature of my original images requires such long descriptions. Besides, the only way to really be safe from the alt-text police of the Mastodon HOA is to overcomply with whatever minimum standards for good image descriptions anyone of them may have.
On the other hand, the self-same Mastodon HOA is likely to sanction me for the self-same posts. The reason: The posts are way too long. They exceed the limit of 500 characters that's so deeply engrained into Mastodon's culture that many Mastodonians are eager to defend it. Even if I hide them behind a summary with a content warning about the post being long. If I were to appease these Mastodonians, I'd have to underdescribe my images, and I wouldn't be able to explain them at all.
Speaking of underdescribing, I think at least some members of the alt-text police actually don't let image descriptions in the post count. What counts is only the image description in the alt-text. It must be accurate, it must be sufficiently detailed, and it must contain all the text transcripts. In fact, I wouldn't wonder if they demanded sufficient explanations in the alt-text, not knowing that explanations in alt-text are actually a big no-no.
Even if all requirements of a good alt-text by alt-text police standards are met or even exceeded by the image description in the post, chances are the alt-text police will still sanction me if the alt-text doesn't meet these criteria.
When it comes to my original images, even squeezing all that into the 1,500-character limit for alt-texts imposed by Mastodon is pretty much impossible. Squeezing it into the 512-character limit for alt-text imposed by Misskey and its forks is even more impossible.
The only winning move is to not play at all. Curiously, some people are even upset about me rarely posting any images. Although they don't follow me. Although the channel that I use for original images (@Jupiter Rowland's (streams) outlet) has next to no reach, so even if I were to post images again, practically nobody would notice. Although it doesn't even seem that there's much interest in that kind of images in the first place.
But apparently, according to some, posting images with only rudimentary alt-text whipped up in a minute, no long description and no explanations is always so much better than not posting images because it takes so much time and effort to describe them.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta #AltTextPolice #MastodonHOA #CW #CWs #CWMeta #ContentWarning #ContentWarnings #ContentWarningMeta #CWContentWarningMeta #CharacterLimit #CharacterLimits #CharacterLimitMeta #CWCharacterLimitMeta #500Characters #MastodonCulture -
CW: Long posts vs insufficiently described images: I can't win either way; CW: long (over 3,500 characters), Fediverse meta, Fediverse-beyond-Mastodon meta, alt-text meta, image description meta, content warning meta, character limit meta
On the one hand, I have to go out of my way and write two image descriptions for each one of my original images. One is short and goes into the alt-text, and I'm going to limit all my future alt-text to a maximum of 512 characters (otherwise users on Misskey, Sharkey etc. will believe I haven't written any alt-text because they won't receive any due to a bug).
The other one is enormous degrees of magnitudes longer than anything most Fediverse users have ever read in the Fediverse. It also contains all explanations necessary to understand the image and its description, and if there's text anywhere within the borders of the image, readable or not, it contains verbatim transcripts of said text.
The nature of my original images requires such long descriptions. Besides, the only way to really be safe from the alt-text police of the Mastodon HOA is to overcomply with whatever minimum standards for good image descriptions anyone of them may have.
On the other hand, the self-same Mastodon HOA is likely to sanction me for the self-same posts. The reason: The posts are way too long. They exceed the limit of 500 characters that's so deeply engrained into Mastodon's culture that many Mastodonians are eager to defend it. Even if I hide them behind a summary with a content warning about the post being long. If I were to appease these Mastodonians, I'd have to underdescribe my images, and I wouldn't be able to explain them at all.
Speaking of underdescribing, I think at least some members of the alt-text police actually don't let image descriptions in the post count. What counts is only the image description in the alt-text. It must be accurate, it must be sufficiently detailed, and it must contain all the text transcripts. In fact, I wouldn't wonder if they demanded sufficient explanations in the alt-text, not knowing that explanations in alt-text are actually a big no-no.
Even if all requirements of a good alt-text by alt-text police standards are met or even exceeded by the image description in the post, chances are the alt-text police will still sanction me if the alt-text doesn't meet these criteria.
When it comes to my original images, even squeezing all that into the 1,500-character limit for alt-texts imposed by Mastodon is pretty much impossible. Squeezing it into the 512-character limit for alt-text imposed by Misskey and its forks is even more impossible.
The only winning move is to not play at all. Curiously, some people are even upset about me rarely posting any images. Although they don't follow me. Although the channel that I use for original images (@Jupiter Rowland's (streams) outlet) has next to no reach, so even if I were to post images again, practically nobody would notice. Although it doesn't even seem that there's much interest in that kind of images in the first place.
But apparently, according to some, posting images with only rudimentary alt-text whipped up in a minute, no long description and no explanations is always so much better than not posting images because it takes so much time and effort to describe them.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta #AltTextPolice #MastodonHOA #CW #CWs #CWMeta #ContentWarning #ContentWarnings #ContentWarningMeta #CWContentWarningMeta #CharacterLimit #CharacterLimits #CharacterLimitMeta #CWCharacterLimitMeta #500Characters #MastodonCulture -
@mattblaze occasionally notes the problems of the Mastodon HOA, mostly when they attack him for absolutely no comprehensible reason. Today was one such.
You can reliably assume that a bunch of mastoscolds will turn up in the replies to his (reasonable) description of what happened, downplaying the problem, insisting it's not that big a deal, that "you just block them, man, problem solved", or even threatening not to respond to his posts anymore (Don't you threaten me with a good time!).
And (finally) my point: those replies are an *excellent* source of accounts to mute or block. Problem solved, indeed.
#MastoScold #MastodonHOA #HOA #block #mute #BlockityBlockBlock
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@mattblaze occasionally notes the problems of the Mastodon HOA, mostly when they attack him for absolutely no comprehensible reason. Today was one such.
You can reliably assume that a bunch of mastoscolds will turn up in the replies to his (reasonable) description of what happened, downplaying the problem, insisting it's not that big a deal, that "you just block them, man, problem solved", or even threatening not to respond to his posts anymore (Don't you threaten me with a good time!).
And (finally) my point: those replies are an *excellent* source of accounts to mute or block. Problem solved, indeed.
#MastoScold #MastodonHOA #HOA #block #mute #BlockityBlockBlock
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The #MastodonHOA will still manufacture bullshit reasons to find you in contempt.
Remember, we're not permitted to have sane discussions of LLMs and other types of machine learning on Mastodon without the HOA's ire. It's all 'evil', going alllllll the way back to Eliza and spellcheck.
I mean, fuck. Even Ned Ludd realized that technology wasn't evil, but the centralization of the means of production to the owners was evil.
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The #MastodonHOA will still manufacture bullshit reasons to find you in contempt.
Remember, we're not permitted to have sane discussions of LLMs and other types of machine learning on Mastodon without the HOA's ire. It's all 'evil', going alllllll the way back to Eliza and spellcheck.
I mean, fuck. Even Ned Ludd realized that technology wasn't evil, but the centralization of the means of production to the owners was evil.
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None of these are true if you run your own LLMs on your own hardware, using FLOSS models.
But the #MastodonHOA has deemed all AI to be abhorrent as a blanket decision.
And frankly, if you exist in a capitalist society, and you're not an owner, there is 100% chance you are exploited. The capitalist system requires it.
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None of these are true if you run your own LLMs on your own hardware, using FLOSS models.
But the #MastodonHOA has deemed all AI to be abhorrent as a blanket decision.
And frankly, if you exist in a capitalist society, and you're not an owner, there is 100% chance you are exploited. The capitalist system requires it.
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@C. I have two major issues with the Mastodon HOA.
One, they try hard to force "Mastodon standards", Mastodon culture and Mastodon's unwritten rules upon the whole Fediverse. Including places that not only aren't Mastodon, but that are very much not Mastodon. Simply because they can't see where a message is from. In fact, many of them are still fully convinced that the Fediverse is only Mastodon.
And so you have members of the Mastodon HOA yelling at someone who is allegedly "doing Mastodon wrong", but that someone is actually on Friendica and has been since as early as 2011. As in about five years longer than Mastodon has even existed. And seriously, the only places in the Fediverse that are even more different and farther away from Mastodon than Friendica (without specialising in something that Mastodon absolutely can't do) are Friendica's own descendants: Hubzilla, (streams), Forte.
The Mastodon HOA probably don't know that Friendica exists. They definitely don't know that either of the other three exists. They definitely don't know that any of the four is significantly different from Mastodon in any way. And frankly, they don't care a bit. If it appears on any Mastodon timeline, it's Mastodon to them, and it has to adapt to Mastodon's culture and follow Mastodon's rules.
Two, they don't coordinate anything among each other. They're just a bunch of lone wolves. Everyone has got their own standards, but everyone thinks their personal standards are the one and only Mastodon/Fediverse gold standards, and everyone enforces their own standards. And, of course, everyone thinks their standards can and must apply always, including in the most obscure edge-cases.
For example, they've got standards for describing real-life photos on Mastodon with a character limit of 500. And they try to enforce these standards always and everywhere. However, these standards don't necessarily work perfectly when I post a rendering from a super-obscure 3-D virtual world on (streams) with a character limit of over 24 million where I've got loads of room to write an additional long image description and put it into the post text.
The Mastodon HOA, or at least some of their members, appear to be constantly raising their minimum quality requirements for image descriptions. They must be absolutely accurate, and they must be sufficiently detailed that nobody will ever have to ask for a detail description. Oh, and they must explain whatever the audience may not know about the image or the description. (At this point, it's fair to mention that explanations must never go into the alt-text.)
Sure, I can do that. I have done so in the past. But I can't do that within Mastodon's alt-text character limit of 1,500 (Mastodon truncates longer alt-texts from outside). I can do that even less within Misskey's alt-text character limit of only 512 (Misskey and the Forkeys should truncate longer alt-texts, but due to a bug, they delete them entirely instead, giving the impression that you haven't written an alt-text at all). I can only do that in the additional long description in the post text.
If the Mastodon HOA demand I transcribe literally any and all text within the borders of an image, I can do that, too. In fact, I have done so in the past. I can transcribe bits of text verbatim which the Mastodon HOA can't even read. Which the Mastodon HOA couldn't even find in the image because they're so tiny. But there's no way that I can squeeze 20+ individual text transcripts into 1,500 characters of alt-text along with the rest of the visual description, much less into only 512 characters. The text transcripts will have to go into the long description in the post text, whether the Mastodon HOA want or not.
This means that the post will exceed the holy limit of 500 characters by huge magnitudes. This, in turn, means that when I've satisfied one Mastodon HOA member, another one comes and sanctions me for exceeding the holy 500-character limit. That is, chances are it's actually the same Mastodon HOA member.
In other words, if the content of an image is obscure enough and requires enough description, the only winning move when I want to post such an image is to not post it at all.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #CharacterLimit #CharacterLimits #CharacterLimitMeta #CWCharacterLimitMeta #500Characters #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta #MastodonCulture #MastodonHOA -
@C. I have two major issues with the Mastodon HOA.
One, they try hard to force "Mastodon standards", Mastodon culture and Mastodon's unwritten rules upon the whole Fediverse. Including places that not only aren't Mastodon, but that are very much not Mastodon. Simply because they can't see where a message is from. In fact, many of them are still fully convinced that the Fediverse is only Mastodon.
And so you have members of the Mastodon HOA yelling at someone who is allegedly "doing Mastodon wrong", but that someone is actually on Friendica and has been since as early as 2011. As in about five years longer than Mastodon has even existed. And seriously, the only places in the Fediverse that are even more different and farther away from Mastodon than Friendica (without specialising in something that Mastodon absolutely can't do) are Friendica's own descendants: Hubzilla, (streams), Forte.
The Mastodon HOA probably don't know that Friendica exists. They definitely don't know that either of the other three exists. They definitely don't know that any of the four is significantly different from Mastodon in any way. And frankly, they don't care a bit. If it appears on any Mastodon timeline, it's Mastodon to them, and it has to adapt to Mastodon's culture and follow Mastodon's rules.
Two, they don't coordinate anything among each other. They're just a bunch of lone wolves. Everyone has got their own standards, but everyone thinks their personal standards are the one and only Mastodon/Fediverse gold standards, and everyone enforces their own standards. And, of course, everyone thinks their standards can and must apply always, including in the most obscure edge-cases.
For example, they've got standards for describing real-life photos on Mastodon with a character limit of 500. And they try to enforce these standards always and everywhere. However, these standards don't necessarily work perfectly when I post a rendering from a super-obscure 3-D virtual world on (streams) with a character limit of over 24 million where I've got loads of room to write an additional long image description and put it into the post text.
The Mastodon HOA, or at least some of their members, appear to be constantly raising their minimum quality requirements for image descriptions. They must be absolutely accurate, and they must be sufficiently detailed that nobody will ever have to ask for a detail description. Oh, and they must explain whatever the audience may not know about the image or the description. (At this point, it's fair to mention that explanations must never go into the alt-text.)
Sure, I can do that. I have done so in the past. But I can't do that within Mastodon's alt-text character limit of 1,500 (Mastodon truncates longer alt-texts from outside). I can do that even less within Misskey's alt-text character limit of only 512 (Misskey and the Forkeys should truncate longer alt-texts, but due to a bug, they delete them entirely instead, giving the impression that you haven't written an alt-text at all). I can only do that in the additional long description in the post text.
If the Mastodon HOA demand I transcribe literally any and all text within the borders of an image, I can do that, too. In fact, I have done so in the past. I can transcribe bits of text verbatim which the Mastodon HOA can't even read. Which the Mastodon HOA couldn't even find in the image because they're so tiny. But there's no way that I can squeeze 20+ individual text transcripts into 1,500 characters of alt-text along with the rest of the visual description, much less into only 512 characters. The text transcripts will have to go into the long description in the post text, whether the Mastodon HOA want or not.
This means that the post will exceed the holy limit of 500 characters by huge magnitudes. This, in turn, means that when I've satisfied one Mastodon HOA member, another one comes and sanctions me for exceeding the holy 500-character limit. That is, chances are it's actually the same Mastodon HOA member.
In other words, if the content of an image is obscure enough and requires enough description, the only winning move when I want to post such an image is to not post it at all.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #CharacterLimit #CharacterLimits #CharacterLimitMeta #CWCharacterLimitMeta #500Characters #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta #MastodonCulture #MastodonHOA -
With posts going around about the Mastodon HOA, I disagree with some of the points made by some.
Should you join the Mastodon HOA and annoyingly "correct" everyone who doesn't do things the way you want them to do them?
Hell, no!
Will people do things in ways other than how you want them to?
Yes.
Is this a moral failing on their part?
No.
Does this, by itself, constitute an attack on you, or an injury to you?
No.
But what are you supposed to do about it?
Nothing. That's the hardest part for members of the HOA to accept. You don't need to do anything when you see someone do things their own way. Ignore it. Move on with your life. See also: bean soup syndrome.
To clarify and defend against some attacks the HOA has directed against me in the past:
I think alt-text on images is a good thing.
I think people should use alt-text on images they post.
I put good, descriptive alt-text on pretty much every image I post, not just "Photo of <X>".
Do I yell at people who post images without alt-text? No.
Do I boost posts containing images without alt-text? Yes, if they're worth boosting.
Do I yell at people for boosting posts without alt-text? No, of course not. See above.If you're in the HOA, you're part of the problem. Just stop.
#HOA #MastodonHOA #Mastodon #AltText #busybody #NosyNellie #JustStop #stop #browbeat #LetItBe #MYOB #MindYourOwnBusiness #CorrectileDysfunction #BeanSoup #BeanSoupSyndrome #DoNothing #DontDoAnything #LiveAndLetLive
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With posts going around about the Mastodon HOA, I disagree with some of the points made by some.
Should you join the Mastodon HOA and annoyingly "correct" everyone who doesn't do things the way you want them to do them?
Hell, no!
Will people do things in ways other than how you want them to?
Yes.
Is this a moral failing on their part?
No.
Does this, by itself, constitute an attack on you, or an injury to you?
No.
But what are you supposed to do about it?
Nothing. That's the hardest part for members of the HOA to accept. You don't need to do anything when you see someone do things their own way. Ignore it. Move on with your life. See also: bean soup syndrome.
To clarify and defend against some attacks the HOA has directed against me in the past:
I think alt-text on images is a good thing.
I think people should use alt-text on images they post.
I put good, descriptive alt-text on pretty much every image I post, not just "Photo of <X>".
Do I yell at people who post images without alt-text? No.
Do I boost posts containing images without alt-text? Yes, if they're worth boosting.
Do I yell at people for boosting posts without alt-text? No, of course not. See above.If you're in the HOA, you're part of the problem. Just stop.
#HOA #MastodonHOA #Mastodon #AltText #busybody #NosyNellie #JustStop #stop #browbeat #LetItBe #MYOB #MindYourOwnBusiness #CorrectileDysfunction #BeanSoup #BeanSoupSyndrome #DoNothing #DontDoAnything #LiveAndLetLive
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@Pino Carafa Well, my problem is not the alt-text.
I used to limit my alt-texts to 1,500 characters because Mastodon and its forks truncate longer alt-texts at the 1,500-character mark. In the future, I will limit them to 512 characters because Misskey and its forks should truncate them at that mark if they're longer, but instead, they delete them.
But in addition to my alt-texts, I describe my original images once more (= twice altogether). The other description is what I call the "long description", and it goes directly into the post text (as opposed to the alt-text). I don't have a character limit to worry about (over 16.7 million), so I can do what's outright unimaginable from a Mastodon point of view.
It's this long description that's causing trouble.
That is, I wouldn't wonder if the Mastodon HOA were to sanction me for my alt-text not being detailed enough when I limit it to 512 characters. In fact, I wouldn't wonder if they were to sanction me because a 1,500-character alt-text of mine is lacking important elements (descriptions of certain details, transcripts of all text within the borders of the image etc.).
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #CharacterLimit #CharacterLimits #CharacterLimitMeta #CWCharacterLimitMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta #MastodonHOA -
@Pino Carafa Well, my problem is not the alt-text.
I used to limit my alt-texts to 1,500 characters because Mastodon and its forks truncate longer alt-texts at the 1,500-character mark. In the future, I will limit them to 512 characters because Misskey and its forks should truncate them at that mark if they're longer, but instead, they delete them.
But in addition to my alt-texts, I describe my original images once more (= twice altogether). The other description is what I call the "long description", and it goes directly into the post text (as opposed to the alt-text). I don't have a character limit to worry about (over 16.7 million), so I can do what's outright unimaginable from a Mastodon point of view.
It's this long description that's causing trouble.
That is, I wouldn't wonder if the Mastodon HOA were to sanction me for my alt-text not being detailed enough when I limit it to 512 characters. In fact, I wouldn't wonder if they were to sanction me because a 1,500-character alt-text of mine is lacking important elements (descriptions of certain details, transcripts of all text within the borders of the image etc.).
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #CharacterLimit #CharacterLimits #CharacterLimitMeta #CWCharacterLimitMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta #MastodonHOA -
@Pino Carafa An additional advantage of this would be that I could first ask just how detailed a description they need. Like, if they really want me to spend two full days, morning to evening, to write something that'll take their screen reader three hours to read out loud.
The problem, however, is that the virtual worlds that I frequent change a lot. Everything is built by users. A place that I've shown in an image may change mere days or hours after I've been there, so when I go back to take a closer look for a detailed description, it doesn't look like on the image anymore.
Or that place may be gone entirely. For example, I could post some images from an in-world event, from places specifically built for this event. Then, two months later, someone asks for a more detailed description. But I can't write a more detailed description because I can't go back to these places, simply because these places were closed and shut down a few days after I had posted the images.
Lastly, my impression of Mastodon is still that a significant number of users do not want to ask. Whatever information they may need, they expect it all to come with the post immediately. Having to ask for a detail description or for an explanation appears to be about as bad style as having to ask for a description in the first place.
I've literally seen Mastodon toots in which people say that if they don't understand a post or an image in a post, they want an explanation to come with the post.
I've also seen a Mastodon toot in which someone said that it isn't sufficient to just say what's in an image, but you also have to describe what it looks like. Right away. And in my case, this is actually absolutely justified.
It's a catch-22: If I don't describe my images sufficiently, I risk being sanctioned by the Mastodon HOA for not describing my images sufficiently. But if I do, I risk being sanctioned by the Mastodon HOA for exceeding 500 characters in one post.
Oh, and if I chop my image descriptions into tiny chunks of no more than 500 characters, it's disturbing for my own ilk, the users of Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte, who are used to not having any character limits and everything being in one message, no matter how long it is. Besides, how many Mastodon users are willing to read a thread of 120 or more posts and find that more convenient than one post with 60,000 characters?
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #CharacterLimit #CharacterLimits #CharacterLimitMeta #CWCharacterLimitMeta #500Characters #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta #MastodonHOA -
@Pino Carafa An additional advantage of this would be that I could first ask just how detailed a description they need. Like, if they really want me to spend two full days, morning to evening, to write something that'll take their screen reader three hours to read out loud.
The problem, however, is that the virtual worlds that I frequent change a lot. Everything is built by users. A place that I've shown in an image may change mere days or hours after I've been there, so when I go back to take a closer look for a detailed description, it doesn't look like on the image anymore.
Or that place may be gone entirely. For example, I could post some images from an in-world event, from places specifically built for this event. Then, two months later, someone asks for a more detailed description. But I can't write a more detailed description because I can't go back to these places, simply because these places were closed and shut down a few days after I had posted the images.
Lastly, my impression of Mastodon is still that a significant number of users do not want to ask. Whatever information they may need, they expect it all to come with the post immediately. Having to ask for a detail description or for an explanation appears to be about as bad style as having to ask for a description in the first place.
I've literally seen Mastodon toots in which people say that if they don't understand a post or an image in a post, they want an explanation to come with the post.
I've also seen a Mastodon toot in which someone said that it isn't sufficient to just say what's in an image, but you also have to describe what it looks like. Right away. And in my case, this is actually absolutely justified.
It's a catch-22: If I don't describe my images sufficiently, I risk being sanctioned by the Mastodon HOA for not describing my images sufficiently. But if I do, I risk being sanctioned by the Mastodon HOA for exceeding 500 characters in one post.
Oh, and if I chop my image descriptions into tiny chunks of no more than 500 characters, it's disturbing for my own ilk, the users of Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte, who are used to not having any character limits and everything being in one message, no matter how long it is. Besides, how many Mastodon users are willing to read a thread of 120 or more posts and find that more convenient than one post with 60,000 characters?
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #CharacterLimit #CharacterLimits #CharacterLimitMeta #CWCharacterLimitMeta #500Characters #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta #MastodonHOA -
@Mastodon Migration
Basically telling other people how they should be using Mastodon is not cool unless they are violating some instance rule.
As, by the way, is telling Fediverse users who are not on Mastodon to use whatever they use instead like Mastodon users are expected to use Mastodon.Please don't be a Mastodon HOA enforcer.
Especially since the alt-text police of the Mastodon HOA have much higher alt-text and image description minimum standards than blind or visually-impaired people. And they seem to be raising their standards further and further.
I always try my best to be way ahead of anyone's image description minimum standards, also in order to demonstrate to the Mastodon HOA that I'm not a lazy bum, and that I do try hard to describe my images properly. For my own original images, this means that I have to describe each one of them twice, with a fairly short description in the alt-text and a much longer one in the post itself.
This, however, clashes with the Mastodon HOA, too, because they also enforce Mastodon's default 500-character limit Fediverse-wide by generously blocking everyone whom they catch exceeding it at first strike.
CC: @🅰🅻🅸🅲🅴 (🌈🦄)
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #CharacterLimit #CharacterLimits #CharacterLimitMeta #CWCharacterLimitMeta #500Characters #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta #AltTextPolice #MastodonHOA -
@Mastodon Migration
Basically telling other people how they should be using Mastodon is not cool unless they are violating some instance rule.
As, by the way, is telling Fediverse users who are not on Mastodon to use whatever they use instead like Mastodon users are expected to use Mastodon.Please don't be a Mastodon HOA enforcer.
Especially since the alt-text police of the Mastodon HOA have much higher alt-text and image description minimum standards than blind or visually-impaired people. And they seem to be raising their standards further and further.
I always try my best to be way ahead of anyone's image description minimum standards, also in order to demonstrate to the Mastodon HOA that I'm not a lazy bum, and that I do try hard to describe my images properly. For my own original images, this means that I have to describe each one of them twice, with a fairly short description in the alt-text and a much longer one in the post itself.
This, however, clashes with the Mastodon HOA, too, because they also enforce Mastodon's default 500-character limit Fediverse-wide by generously blocking everyone whom they catch exceeding it at first strike.
CC: @🅰🅻🅸🅲🅴 (🌈🦄)
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #CharacterLimit #CharacterLimits #CharacterLimitMeta #CWCharacterLimitMeta #500Characters #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta #AltTextPolice #MastodonHOA -
<post comment about current event>
"That came out yesterday! How is that news?!?!"
It's news to people who haven't seen it yet. That's how "news" works.
Stop me if this is too detailed for you.
-
<post comment about current event>
"That came out yesterday! How is that news?!?!"
It's news to people who haven't seen it yet. That's how "news" works.
Stop me if this is too detailed for you.
-
@sillyCoelophysis @thatfrisiangirlish
Seriously, fuck the #mastodonHOA
All I see about everyone here howling about "CW CW CW wahhhh" reminds me when busybody neighbors demand you do their bidding.
Nah.
-
@sillyCoelophysis @thatfrisiangirlish
Seriously, fuck the #mastodonHOA
All I see about everyone here howling about "CW CW CW wahhhh" reminds me when busybody neighbors demand you do their bidding.
Nah.
-
I'm anti-AI. Lord, if you read me at all, you'd know I'm extremely anti-AI. I don't use it, I don't endorse it, I criticize it, I anti-evangelize about it, I write letters to business people and politicians asking them to stop using it.
But I'm more "anti" orange pedophile fascist racist misogynist corrupt authoritarian Trump than I am anti-AI, and this was *funny*.
So I'm sorry that my use of the internet and the fediverse didn't meet your high standards. I suggest you ignore, mute, or block me - we'll probably both be happier that way.
#MastodonHOA #HOA #ReplyGuy #TinPotDictator #LdE #comedy #ThanksMattBlaze
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I'm anti-AI. Lord, if you read me at all, you'd know I'm extremely anti-AI. I don't use it, I don't endorse it, I criticize it, I anti-evangelize about it, I write letters to business people and politicians asking them to stop using it.
But I'm more "anti" orange pedophile fascist racist misogynist corrupt authoritarian Trump than I am anti-AI, and this was *funny*.
So I'm sorry that my use of the internet and the fediverse didn't meet your high standards. I suggest you ignore, mute, or block me - we'll probably both be happier that way.
#MastodonHOA #HOA #ReplyGuy #TinPotDictator #LdE #comedy #ThanksMattBlaze
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Jebus. You really think he doesn't already know that?
The Mastodon HOA is still alive and well, it seems.
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Jebus. You really think he doesn't already know that?
The Mastodon HOA is still alive and well, it seems.
-
@Justin Derrick The question, however, is: What is "high-quality"? How is it defined?
Would the bot go by the definition valid for commercial/scientific/technological websites and blogs, i.e. ideally no more than 125 characters, and only a short and concise visual description with no further information?
Or would the bot go by Mastodon's culture and Mastodon's standards, i.e. the longer and more detailed, the better, any and all extra information is welcome in alt-text (because it doesn't fit into the toot), and the limit is 1,500 characters?
That is, if it were for me, the bot would go look both for alt-texts and for image descriptions in the post text body and judge both. Because I do both at the same time for my original images. An extremely detailed long image description in the post itself (character limit for post and alt-texts combined here: over 16 million) that also comes with all necessary explanations and transcripts of all text in the image, plus an alt-text that's as detailed as 1,500 characters (minus notification about the long description in the post) allow, but with no explanations, and I usually have to leave out text transcripts as well because they're too many.
You may say the alt-text is superfluous if it's just a much shorter version of the long description. But as long as the Mastodon HOA demands there be an alt-text to every image, no matter what (especially seeing as I always hide my image posts behind summaries/content warnings, so you can't see right of the bat that there's a long image description in the post), I add alt-texts to my original images.
I'm actually curious about how the bot would judge my descriptions. Maybe it'd flag them "inadequate" because it notices that the bits of text in the image are not transcribed in the alt-text. Maybe it'd be irritated because I have headlines in my long image descriptions, because they're so long that they need two levels of headlines. Maybe it'd flag them "inadequate" because it goes strictly by WCAG, and a) the alt-texts exceed 200 characters, b) long image descriptions do not belong into the text body by any known official accessibility standards, and c) neither my alt-texts nor my long descriptions are limited to what's supposed to be important within the context of the post.
Anyway, in the meantime, you can follow the account @Alt Text Hall of Fame and the hashtag #AltTextHallOfFame.
CC: @Simon Brooke
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #MastodonHOA #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta -
@Justin Derrick The question, however, is: What is "high-quality"? How is it defined?
Would the bot go by the definition valid for commercial/scientific/technological websites and blogs, i.e. ideally no more than 125 characters, and only a short and concise visual description with no further information?
Or would the bot go by Mastodon's culture and Mastodon's standards, i.e. the longer and more detailed, the better, any and all extra information is welcome in alt-text (because it doesn't fit into the toot), and the limit is 1,500 characters?
That is, if it were for me, the bot would go look both for alt-texts and for image descriptions in the post text body and judge both. Because I do both at the same time for my original images. An extremely detailed long image description in the post itself (character limit for post and alt-texts combined here: over 16 million) that also comes with all necessary explanations and transcripts of all text in the image, plus an alt-text that's as detailed as 1,500 characters (minus notification about the long description in the post) allow, but with no explanations, and I usually have to leave out text transcripts as well because they're too many.
You may say the alt-text is superfluous if it's just a much shorter version of the long description. But as long as the Mastodon HOA demands there be an alt-text to every image, no matter what (especially seeing as I always hide my image posts behind summaries/content warnings, so you can't see right of the bat that there's a long image description in the post), I add alt-texts to my original images.
I'm actually curious about how the bot would judge my descriptions. Maybe it'd flag them "inadequate" because it notices that the bits of text in the image are not transcribed in the alt-text. Maybe it'd be irritated because I have headlines in my long image descriptions, because they're so long that they need two levels of headlines. Maybe it'd flag them "inadequate" because it goes strictly by WCAG, and a) the alt-texts exceed 200 characters, b) long image descriptions do not belong into the text body by any known official accessibility standards, and c) neither my alt-texts nor my long descriptions are limited to what's supposed to be important within the context of the post.
Anyway, in the meantime, you can follow the account @Alt Text Hall of Fame and the hashtag #AltTextHallOfFame.
CC: @Simon Brooke
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #MastodonHOA #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta -
@Sascha 😈 ⁂ (Fediverse) Ich weiß ja nicht, wie weit die bereit sind, es eskalieren zu lassen, wenn sie z. B. feststellen, daß Leute, die sich auf bestimmte Arten und Weisen nicht an die Mastodon-Regeln halten, auf einigen wenigen bestimmten Instanzen sind (wenn sie nicht nachgucken, was das für Instanzen sind; jedenfalls sind das dann Friendica-, Hubzilla- oder dergleichen Instanzen). Oder wenn sie sich wirklich mal die Mühe machen zu gucken, was das eigentlich für Instanzen sind, und feststellen, diese Arten des "Danebenbenehmens" kommen regelrecht systematisch alle von Friendica oder von Hubzilla.
Im Moment fliegen Friendica, Hubzilla & Co. als Ganzes noch unterm Radar. Locker drei Viertel des Fediverse wissen nicht mal, daß Hubzilla existiert. Und auch die Existenz von Friendica ist nicht so sehr bekannt. Also kann die HOA eher nicht mit dem Finger auf Friendica oder Hubzilla zeigen und sagen, die sind pauschal böse.
Aber ich rechne wirklich damit, daß bei denen irgendwann der Groschen fällt und sie entsprechend reagieren. Dann füllen sich die einschlägigen Blocklists, die tausende Mastodon- und andere Fediverse-Admins ungesehen und unkuratiert in ihre Instanzen einbauen, auf einmal mit Friendica-Nodes und Hubzilla-Hubs. Grund: Die Leute da halten sich nicht an die ungeschriebenen Mastodon-Regeln und führen sich aus Mastodon-Sicht wie die Wildsäue auf.
Dir kann es wahrscheinlich scheißegal sein, wenn dein Node und ein paar hundert weitere von abertausenden Mastodon-Instanzen komplett geblockt werden. Aber die nächsten Von-Facebook-nach-Friendica-Flüchtlinge, die von dem ganzen Drama und von Mastodon-Kultur usw. nichts wissen, wundern sich, warum sie sich von ihrem Friendica-Node aus nicht mit Mastodon verbinden können, obwohl jemand gesagt hat, daß das geht. Das geht dann deshalb nicht, weil alle Mastodon-Instanzen, mit denen sie sich verbinden wollen, dieselbe Blocklist eingebaut haben, auf der die allermeisten Friendica-Nodes eingetragen sind. Und schon ist Friendica kacke.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Mastodon #MastodonHOA #MastodonKultur #Blockliste #Blocklisten #BlocklistenMeta #CWBlocklistenMeta -
@Sascha 😈 ⁂ (Fediverse) Für die Mastodon Home Owners' Association gibt's keine Servergrenzen, nicht mal Projektgrenzen. Die setzen nicht die Regeln ihrer Instanz auf ihrer Instanz durch.
Die setzen Mastodons (ungeschriebene) Gesetze gegen jeden im Fediverse durch. Die sehen auf Mastodon nicht, wo du selbst bist, und es ist ihnen auch scheißegal. Wenn du "nach Mastodon postest" (und sei es, weil dein Post nach dem vierten Mal Wiederholen in Folge bei jemandem auf Mastodon gelandet ist), dann hast du dich an die Mastodon-Regeln zu halten.
Dann hast du gefälligst auch Mastodons Kultur zu übernehmen. Wie, du hast schon eine Kultur? Die von Friendica? Wenn du nach Mastodon postest, hast du die aufzugeben und durch die von Mastodon zu ersetzen. Auch wenn Friendicas Kultur ein Dutzend Jahre älter ist als die von Mastodon. Scheißegal.
Ach ja, und Features, die Friendica hat, Mastodon aber nicht, darfst du auch nicht mehr nutzen, weil sie in Mastodons Kultur nicht vorkommen. Beispielsweise über 500 Zeichen. Oder mehr als vier Bilder. Gnade dir Gott, wenn jemand auf Mastodon rausfindet, daß dein Post eigentlich mehr Bilder hat.
Wohlgemerkt, soweit ich weiß, reagiert die Mastodon HOA nicht nur auf diejenigen Inhalte so, die sie auf ihren eigenen persönlichen Timelines vorfindet, sondern auch mal auf solche, über die sie zufällig auf der föderierten Timeline stolpert.
Alles im Fediverse, was irgendwie mit Mastodon verbunden ist, ist wegen der Mastodon HOA zum Minenfeld geworden. Außer für diejenigen, die selbst auf Vanilla-Mastodon sind und Mastodons Kultur leben und atmen.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Mastodon #MastodonHOA #MastodonKultur -
And then you have the Mastodon HOA who fight tooth and nail for a purely Mastodon-only Fediverse and against anything and everything that's different from Mastodon in any way.
#FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #MastodonHOA -
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@jwz refers to the fediverse scolding brigade as the "Mastodon HOA", and if you're familiar with that peculiarly USAnian institution, full of wannabe-dictators and fun police, it's quite apt.
I alt-text my images. But not because randos show up in the replies demanding it -- despite them.
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@EmpeRohr Wenn man hauptsächlich auf Mastodon ist und sieht, wie ein Nicht-Mastodon-Nutzer angeschnauzt wird, daß er gefälligst seine Posts auf maximal 500 Zeichen beschränken oder sich gefälligst aus dem Fediverse verpissen soll (ist @crossgolf_rebel - kostenlose Kwalitätsposts exakt so passiert), dann sitzt man da, guckt sich das an und amüsiert sich.
Das ist aber ganz was anderes, wenn man als Daily Driver etwas anderes als Mastodon nutzt. Wenn man nicht gerade von Mastodon umgestiegen ist. Wenn man womöglich schon länger im Fediverse ist als mindestens 99% aller aktuellen Mastodon-Nutzer. Wenn man von vornherein ganz andere Sachen gewohnt ist als Mastodon.
Und wenn man dann selbst derjenige ist, der angeschnauzt wird, daß man mehr als die Hälfte der Features, die man hat, nicht mehr nutzen darf, weil das irgendwelche Mastodon-Nutzer stört. Weil Mastodon diese Features nicht hat bzw. nicht hatte, als die Mastodon-Kultur definiert wurde. Weil diese Features daher in der Mastodon-Kultur nicht vorkommen.
Das ist dann nicht mehr so lustig.
Jemand, der das Fediverse erst kennengelernt hat, indem er aufgrund von Elon Musk von Twitter nach Mastodon abgehauen ist und dann eine ganze Weile glaubte, das Fediverse sei nur Mastodon (trifft auf mindestens 60% aller heutigen Fediverse-Nutzer zu), sieht und erlebt das Fediverse ganz anders als jemand, der z. B. seit 2011 durchgängig auf Friendica ist.
Genau solche Leute sind übrigens der Grund, warum eine eigentlich öffentliche (streams)-Gruppe, in der ich mit einem anderen Kanal bin, ActivityPub komplett abgeschaltet hat. Man kann sie nur noch von Hubzilla oder (streams) aus nutzen, aber die "Kollateralschäden" werden gerne in Kauf genommen dafür, daß die ganze Gruppe für Mastodon-Nutzer unsichtbar und unerreichbar ist.
A propos (streams): Das ist eine von nur zwei Serveranwendungen mit einem adminseitigen User Agent Filter, mit dem man ganze Fediverse-Projekte tutto kompletto aussperren kann. Eingebaut wurde das, um Threads einfach und komplett blockieren zu können. Aber es wurde damit beworben, daß man als Admin damit auch Mastodon als Ganzes loswerden könnte.
Ich meine, vielleicht sollte der Spieß mal umgedreht werden. Ich kenne mindestens einen Friendica-Nutzer, der praktisch jeden sofort sperrt, von dem er einen Thread aus Maximal-500-Zeichen-Schnipseln bekommt. Vielleicht sollten ein paar mehr Nicht-Mastodon-Nutzer diejenigen Mastodon-Nutzer, die das tun, nicht einfach nur stummschalten oder blockieren, sondern anschnauzen, das gefälligst in einen Post zu tun.
Vielleicht sollten Friendica-, Hubzilla-, (streams)- und Forte-Nutzer auch solche Mastodon-Nutzer anschnauzen, die das Zusammenfassungsfeld für Inhaltswarnungen mißbrauchen. Vor allem, wenn sie nicht statt dessen Schlüsselwörter oder Hashtags einbauen, die leserseitig generierte Inhaltswarnungen auslösen. Oder die Erwähnungen "spammen", weil man aus deren Sicht nie mehr als eine oder höchstens mal zwei Erwähnungen braucht.
Rechtfertigung dafür: "Wir waren zuerst hier."
Ich wäre echt mal neugierig, wie die Mastodon-Nutzer darauf reagieren.
@Tuxi ⁂ @SpassMitVideospielen
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #MastoHOA #MastodonHOA #FediHOA #FediverseHOA -
@SpassMitVideospielen @EmpeRohr Richtig. Das sind die Leute, die erzwingen wollen, daß das Fediverse zu einer Kombination aus dem wird, wie Twitter-Flüchtlinge 2022 das Fediverse wahrgenommen haben, und dem, wie sie es gerne hätten.
Erstens heißt das: nur Mastodon. So, wie es aus ihrer Sicht 2022 noch war. Die ganzen Nicht-Mastodon-"Eindringlinge" haben sich aus dem Fediverse zu verpissen. Alle von Pixelfed bis hin zu (und ganz besonders) Friendica, das schon mehr als fünf Jahre länger im Fediverse ist als Mastodon, und mit dem Mastodon sich bei seinem eigenen Start verbunden hat.
Zweitens heißt das: nur Vanilla-Mastodon. Keine Instanzen mit über 500 Zeichen mehr und erst recht keine Forks.
Drittens heißt das: Alle haben sich an die Mastodon-Kultur, die Mastodon-Regeln und die Mastodon-Etikette zu halten, die Mitte 2022 von den Twitter-Flüchtlingen der ersten Welle um Mastodon 3.x herm definiert wurden. Die, die jetzt neu dazu kommen, haben von der ersten Sekunde an diese Kultur zu leben und zu atmen, oder sie fliegen aus dem Fediverse wieder raus. Und wer vor Februar 2022 auf Mastodon war, hat sich auch an die neue Kultur anzupassen.
Viertens heißt das folglich auch: Im ganzen Fediverse steht die Verwendung von Features, die Mastodon 3.x nicht hatte, unter Strafe, weil die in der Mastodon-Kultur nicht vorgesehen sind.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #MastoHOA #MastodonHOA #FediHOA #FediverseHOA -
If you think the Fediverse and Mastodon are private places and that anything that makes them a bit more open and visible is an attack on your privacy, sorry to break it to you but you're in idiot.
#MastodonHOA #Mastodon #Fediverse #OpenWeb #privacy