#fediverse-groups — Public Fediverse posts
Live and recent posts from across the Fediverse tagged #fediverse-groups, aggregated by home.social.
-
CW: Uncomfortable truth about the Fediverse that'll totally scare Mastodon users; CW: long (over 2,400 characters), Fediverse meta, Fediverse-beyond-Mastodon meta, quote-post meta, character limit meta
When you see it, you'll shit brix: The Hubzilla timeline.
The "it" that you're supposed to see is:- The Fediverse did, in fact, not start with Mastodon.
There was something in the Fediverse before Mastodon: Mistpark was there almost 6 years before Mastodon, Hubzilla was there 10 months before Mastodon.
Mastodon came into an already existing Fediverse with servers and users and content and a culture.
The Fediverse has never been only Mastodon. And it will never be. - The Fediverse had quote-posts almost 6 years before Mastodon.
(Accurate implication: The non-Mastodon Fediverse can quote-post any public Mastodon toot with no problems, and it has always been able to do so, for as long as Mastodon has been around.) - The Fediverse had groups almost 6 years before Mastodon which still doesn't even support groups.
- The Fediverse had better lists than Mastodon lists almost 6 years before Mastodon.
- The Fediverse had reply control almost 6 years before Mastodon where people are still waiting for some kind of reply control.
- The Fediverse had permissions almost 6 years before Mastodon where the concept of permissions is completely unknown.
- The Fediverse had no character limit to worry about almost 6 years before Mastodon came along with only 500 characters.
The Fediverse had 16,777,215 characters almost 6 years before Mastodon had 500 characters. - The Fediverse had full rich-text formatting almost 6 years before Mastodon.
The Fediverse could generate bold type, italics, underline,code blocks, bullet-point lists etc. without any Unicode trickery. Almost 6 years before Mastodon was there. And more than 12 years before Mastodon could even only display that stuff.
Although it should be blatantly obvious: This here is not a Mastodon toot. This post comes from Hubzilla directly to your Mastodon apps.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #Mistpark #Friendica #Hubzilla #FediverseCulture #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares #Groups #FediGroups #FediverseGroups #Lists #ReplyControl #Permissions #CharacterLimit #CharacterLimits #CharacterLimitMeta #CWCharacterLimitMeta #500Characters #TextFormatting #RichText #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse - The Fediverse did, in fact, not start with Mastodon.
-
@hello Team #FediGroups, can you give me any information about the software used under the hood, and whether source code is published?
-
@silverpill Another case of people who don't know the Fediverse beyond Mastodon. Or, at most, Mastodon, Pixelfed, PeerTube and maybe Threads.
Since none of these have groups, these people firmly believe that the Fediverse itself doesn't have any.
I have a GitHub account for bug-reporting purposes. Shall I barge in and tell them?
#FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #FediGroups #FediverseGroups -
@klu9 @Leigh Silvester First of all, Friendica is a Facebook alternative. It was designed as such.
However, it was designed as a better-than-Facebook-itself Facebook alternative with a lot of useful extra features and without a lot of Facebook-typical cruft. And not as an all-out, 1:1 Facebook clone. It was made almost 16 years ago, in a time when a decentralised alternative to something didn't absolutely have to be a nearly identical clone.
Friendica does have groups; there's the official group directory. So does Hubzilla which was made by Friendica's own creator from a fork of a fork of Friendica, so they're similar.
However, groups on Friendica and forums on Hubzilla are a lot different from groups on Facebook, especially if you want to have your own group. On Facebook, groups are a wholly separate feature of their own.
On Friendica, a group is just another account, but configured differently. Likewise, on Hubzilla, a forum is just another channel (on Hubzilla, your identity is not your account and not tied to your login), but, again, configured differently. (streams) and Forte, the two still existing more recent Hubzilla descendants from still the same creator, have groups in much the same fashion as Hubzilla's forums.
Friendica groups are not limited to users on the same Friendica node. In fact, anyone anywhere on Friendica, on Hubzilla, on (streams), on Forte, on Mastodon, Pleroma, Akkoma, Misskey, any of the Forkeys etc. can join Friendica groups and Hubzilla forums and interact with them. Yes, you can join Friendica groups with your existing Mastodon account.
Basically, how they work (within the Friendica/Hubzilla/(streams)/Forte family and with a Mastodon translation) is:- In order to join a group/forum, you request a connection.
(Mastodon: You follow the group account/forum channel.) - Your request is accepted.
(Mastodon: Your follow request is confirmed, and you're followed back. - Now you're a member.
- In order to start a new thread, you send a post to the group/forum, but you must mention it in such a way that your post becomes a DM.
(Mastodon: Most of the Fediverse, Mastodon included, doesn't know these special mentions, so Friendica groups and Hubzilla forums accept normal mentions from those server applications that can't direct-mention.) - The Friendica group account/Hubzilla forum channel will automatically be quoted-shared (Friendica)/shared (Hubzilla)/quoted (Mastodon lingo) to all other group/forum members.
If you want to start a new thread in a Friendica group or a Hubzilla forum from Mastodon, which you can, you have to know the order of things, keep it in mind and adhere to it:Title
@Group mention
Post text
So while Mastodon doesn't officially support titles, at least not when posting, you can give the thread a title by writing it above the mention and the post text below the mention.
A common Mastodon mistake is to first write the post text and then add the mention afterwards. However, if there is exactly one paragraph above the mention, and that paragraph is short enough, Friendica and Hubzilla will treat it as the title. Your start post might end up with a title, but not with a post text.
How exactly groups are handled on Friendica if you're the owner, I can't tell you. The last time I've used Friendica must have been either when Mastodon was still fairly new or even before Mastodon was even made. I've switched to Hubzilla as my preferred daily driver back then and never looked back.
I've read that Friendica has something like secondary accounts which you can attach to your existing account. This way, you can have your personal Friendica account and a group account on the same login, and you can switch between them without having to log out. But that must have been introduced long after I've quit Friendica.
On Hubzilla, something like this has always been possible: If you want to start a group, you simply create another channel on your account and configure it as a forum channel, either by choosing "Community forum" as the channel role or, if you know what you're doing, by choosing "Custom" as the channel role and then activating "Group actor" in the Custom channel role settings. The latter is also the only way to have a private forum.
Friendica lets you appoint additional admins/moderators, but only from the same Friendica node that your group is on.
As Hubzilla has a full implementation of OpenWebAuth magic sign-on, include server-side, you can promote any forum member on Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams), Forte and Mitra as extra forum admins.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Facebook #FacebookAlternative #FacebookAlternatives #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Groups #FediGroups #FediverseGroups - In order to join a group/forum, you request a connection.
-
@Jasper Burns
Permissions meet groups
It gets really interesting when the permissions system is applied to groups. As the owner of a Hubzilla forum, you have the following options:- You can control who can see the profile of the forum, i.e. what it is all about. For example, you can only allow confirmed members to see it. Or, in fact, you can only allow certain members to see it by assigning a specific contact role to them. Or you could make it Fediverse-specific: Only those who can be recognised as logged-in Fediverse users can see the profile. Or you can hide it altogether.
- You can control who can see the contacts, i.e. the forum members, all the same. Like, for example, only a chosen inner circle may be allowed to see the list of forum members, but Joe Average Forum Member is not.
- Likewise, you can control who can see what has already happened in the forum when visiting the group profile.
- You can choose to hide the whole forum from the directory, the place where people go to find new contacts (the mastodon.social equivalent is https://mastodon.social/directory), to keep the forum secret altogether by keeping people from finding it accidentally or by searching.
(streams) and Forte have four different types of group channels instead:- Normal: public, group members may upload media to the group's file storage
- Limited: public, but group members may not upload media to the group's file storage
- Moderated: like Limited, but by default, posts and comments by new group members have to be approved by the admins; members may have their permissions upgraded and post and comment without approval once they've proven themselves worthy
- Restricted: private, profile is only visible to group members, stream of posts and comments is only visible to group members, posts and comments are only sent to group members, but group members may upload media to the group's file storage
As I've already said, you can grant individual permissions to your contacts on your personal channel. But you can grant individual permissions to forum users on a forum channel just the same. You can have regular users. You can have users with certain extra privileges. You can use the permissions system to silence users without kicking and blocking them.
And you can use the permissions system to appoint extra forum admins/mods. You can grant contacts permission to administer your forum. Now, this requires for your channel to recognise visitors and their identities to see what permissions they shall have and to grant them these permissions. And this requires OpenWebAuth. So right now, you can only make forum members from Hubzilla, (streams), Forte, Friendica, Mitra and Tootik additional admins/mods. But you can.
(9/9)
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Privacy #Security #Permission #Permissions #Groups #FediGroups #FediverseGroups #PrivateGroups -
@Jasper Burns
Groups, part 3: Replying to a thread, and how conversations work
If you want to reply, just reply. It's good manners to mention whomever you're directly replying to, and even that only if you're replying to a reply. But you don't have to mention anyone to reach anyone. Even then, your reply will be boosted to everyone who has received the top post.
Even if you reply to Carol who has replied to Bob who has replied to Alice who has started a thread in the group.
Within Mastodon, you'd have to mention Carol so she receives and sees your reply, you'd have to mention Bob so he receives and sees your reply, you'd have to mention Alice so she receives and sees your reply.
Conversations on Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte work much more like on Facebook: Your reply will go past Carol. Past Bob. Past Alice. Straight to the group account/channel. From there to Alice because she has started the conversation. And to Bob and Carol because they have received the quote-post of Alice's post. And to everyone else who has received the quote-post of Alice's post.
Now, how does everyone see your reply?
At this point, it's important to say that a Friendica feed or a Hubzilla or (streams) or Forte stream looks vastly different from a Twitter feed or a Mastodon timeline and much more like a Facebook feed. Again, that's because Friendica was a Facebook alternative long before Twitter clones became the default. And Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte are direct descendants of Friendica with largely the same purpose. So no mimicking Twitter's behaviour here.
What does your Mastodon timeline look like? Single posts with no context. And more single posts with no context. You receive a new post, it immediately shows up at the top of your timeline as a single post with no context. You have no idea how many unread messages you have. You want to see the context of a post, you have to click and click and click.
Facebook doesn't show you single-post-with-no-context piecemeal. Neither do Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte. They always show you entire conversations with the top post and with all comments.
Imagine your Mastodon timeline. But instead of single posts with no context, you always see entire conversations with the top post and all replies; that is, you actually only see the last three replies, but you can easily unfold the thread view and see everything.
Imagine whenever someone replies to a post that you already have in your timeline, you automatically receive that reply.
Imagine that you have a little counter of unread messages somewhere. When you receive a new post, the counter goes up by one. When you receive a new reply, the counter goes up by one. But neither that new post nor that new reply is automatically added to the top of your timeline.
Now you click the counter of unread messages. Out comes a list of unread messages. Not the messages proper. A list, including who sent them and, if that's the case, whom they reply to (not as in whom they directly reply to, as in Carol in the above example, but who wrote the top post, as in Alice in the above example).
You can click on any item in the list. Imagine you do. You will leave the timeline view. You will be shown only that one conversation with the top post and the comments. And the view will focus on the new comment and flag it as seen, and the counter of unread messages will go down by one. You can scroll through the conversation and see the entire context in which that reply was posted.
This is what Friendica groups, Hubzilla forums, (streams) groups and Forte groups are geared towards. They aren't group add-ons to Mastodon, and they aren't geared towards integrating perfectly into Mastodon. Remember that Friendica groups are almost six years older than Mastodon itself.
I'm not sure how exactly Mastodon users receive replies from Friendica groups, Hubzilla forums, (streams) groups or Forte groups. One thing is certain: They will not visibly mention you. Another thing is certain: They will send you replies regardless.
I can only guess what happens: You do get replies. But you get them as new posts in your timeline. And you have to scroll down your timeline until you stumble upon them. If you really want to participate in groups, if you really want to see everything that happens there, you'll have to scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll down your timeline until you hit posts which you know you've seen before. You probably won't be notified about these replies.
(3/9)
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Groups #FediGroups #FediverseGroups #Conversation #Conversations -
@Jasper Burns
Groups, part 2: Starting a thread
Okay, here comes the twist. Here is where the group magic happens.
If you want to start a new thread in that group, you have to be a member of the group account. Connected to the group account. In Mastospeak, mutually follow the group account.
Then, if you send a new post that mentions the group account, and it is not a reply to another post, then the group account will automatically quote your post and send the quote-post with your post in it to all its connections (followers).
You know quotes? Quote-posts? Like, quote-tweets? What half of Mastodon is so afraid of because it's used on Twitter only to harass and dogpile people? That's what I'm talking about. Friendica has had these quote-posts for almost 16 years, and never have they been used for harassment and dogpiling, for never has anyone used Friendica as a drop-in replacement for Twitter. Friendica calls them "shares". And Friendica has used these quote-posts in groups for almost 16 years.
That is, within Friendica (and its descendants), one thing is a wee bit different: If you're on Friendica or Hubzilla or (streams) or Forte, you have to send a DM with a special mention (!groupinstead of@groupon Friendica,@!groupon Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte) to the group account for this to happen. This automatically activates what's "mentioned only" on Mastodon and makes your post a DM.
But from Mastodon accounts and the like, it accepts public posts with@groupmentions. That's because Mastodon & Co. don't know!groupand@!groupmentions.
(2/9)
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares #QuotePostDebate #QuoteTootDebate #Fediverse #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Groups #FediGroups #FediverseGroups -
@Jasper Burns Okay, I guess here's some explanation necessary from a Mastodon point of view.
Groups, part 1: Membership
As for a Friendica group, you can think of it as a Mastodon account, but with a little twist. In order to join that group, you follow it. And if you have your own group, you have one Mastodon account that's your personal account and another Mastodon account that's the group.
However, Friendica is not a Twitter clone. It's a Facebook replacement, and it has been one long before cloning Twitter was considered the one thing the Fediverse does.
Now, Twitter has followers and followed. As does Mastodon because Mastodon is a Twitter clone.
But Facebook doesn't have followers and followed. It has "friends" which in Twitterspeak and Mastospeak are mutual followers. Thus, it's the same on Friendica.
Friendica doesn't have followers and followed as two fully separate things and mutuals as the state when you follow someone and they follow you back. It has connections which are always mutual.
So in order to really join a Friendica group, you must connect to it (Mastodon: follow it), and the group account must confirm the connection (Mastodon: follow you back).
It's basically the same on Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte. Only that on these three, much unlike on Mastodon and Friendica, the account, the login and the identity are not tied together into one thing. Imagine you could have as many Mastodon-accounts-as-in-identities on one Mastodon-account-as-in-login. Imagine you could switch back and forth between fully independent identities on the same server without having to log out and back in again. Only that Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte refer to a Mastodon-account-as-in-identity as a "channel" and to a Mastodon-account-as-in-login as an "account".
This means that on Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte, a group (Hubzilla: forum) is a channel with special settings. As a group owner, you have one account/login, and on that one account/login, you have your personal channel, and you have your group/forum channel, and you can switch between them while staying logged in.
(1/9)
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Groups #FediGroups #FediverseGroups -
@Jasper Burns
I'd like to see more of that in the fediverse features like events, groups, moderation, different roles, permissions etc. complemented by secure communication!
The Fediverse has literally got just about of this right now. Mastodon doesn't. But the Fediverse does because there's stuff in the Fediverse, as in federated with Mastodon, that has it. And it has had all of this for longer than Mastodon has even existed.Friendica
Friendica has- federating events
- groups (which are special accounts)
- private groups
- hidden groups
- moderated groups
- groups with multiple moderators on the same server
- a permissions system
- DMs that are actually private because they're covered by the permissions system rather than just handling who receives a message
- etc.
Friendica is from May, 2010, over five and a half years older than Mastodon.
It was made as an alternative for Facebook right away. It was not meant to be a Facebook clone, though, but better than Facebook while also covering all long-form blogging features.
And Friendica is fully federated with Mastodon. You can follow Friendica accounts from Mastodon, and Friendica users can connect to your Mastodon account from Friendica.Hubzilla
Hubzilla has- federating events (in addition to a non-federating CalDAV calendar server)
- groups (which are special channels; Hubzilla calls them "forums")
- various independent options of making groups private that can be combined
- hidden groups, groups with multiple admins/moderators anywhere on Hubzilla or (streams) or Forte
- the second-most advanced permissions system in the Fediverse on three levels (entire channel, individual contacts, content) with 17 different permissions and seven or eight channel-wide permission levels for each
- DMs that are actually private because they're covered by the permissions system rather than just handling who receives a message
- optional additional encryption (only works within Hubzilla)
- optional non-federating articles
- optional planning cards
- optional webpages
- optional wikis
- nomadic (fully portable, decentralised, distributed) identity
- etc. etc.
Hubzilla is from March, 2016, ten months older than Mastodon. It was created by Friendica's creator by rebuilding and repurposing a fork of a fork of Friendica.
It is considered a "decentralised social content management system" that can be just about anything you want it to be because it's so modular. Basically, what's incomplete and unstable at best and an unfulfilled promise at worst on Bonfire has been readily available and rock-solid stable for over 10 years on Hubzilla. And even more on top of that.
Red, the Hubzilla precursor, was the first software to establish nomadic identity, something that Bluesky claims to be in the process of inventing from scratch. And that was as early as 2012.
Hubzilla was the very first software to implement ActivityPub. And unlike Mastodon, Hubzilla implemented ActivityPub by the book and largely still does so.
And Hubzilla is optionally fully federated with Mastodon. In fact, this comment that you're reading right now comes from Hubzilla. Like, you're directly speaking with someone on something that has absolutely everything you wish for the Fediverse to have, and that has had all of it for longer than Mastodon has existed.(streams), Forte
(streams) and Forte have- federating events (in addition to a non-federating CalDAV calendar server)
- groups (which are special channels)
- private groups
- hidden groups
- groups with multiple admins/moderators anywhere on Hubzilla or (streams) or Forte
- groups with moderated posting and commenting (as in posts and comments from new members will have to be confirmed by the moderators in order to be visible)
- the most advanced permissions system in the Fediverse on three levels (entire channel, individual contacts, content) with 15 different permissions and three or four channel-wide permission levels for each
- DMs that are actually private because they're covered by the permissions system rather than just handling who receives a message
- nomadic (fully portable, decentralised, distributed) identity
- etc.
(streams) is from October, 2021. It was created by Friendica's creator as a fork of a fork of three forks of a fork (of a fork?) of Hubzilla.
Forte is from August, 2024. It was created by Friendica's creator as a fork of (streams).
Forte was the first software to establish nomadic identity via ActivityPub.
And both are fully federated with Mastodon; (streams) optionally so, but it is by default.
I've made a document with a series of tables which directly compare the features of Mastodon, Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte:
https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/0a75de76-eb27-4149-b708-f20b2f79d392
In fact, this document is on the very same Hubzilla channel that I'm commenting from right now.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Calendar #Events #Groups #FediGroups #FediverseGroups #PrivateGroups #Permission #Permissions -
I guess I'm out of the loop. I had noticed I wasn't getting as many grouup feed posts. But, didn't check until now, when I find out that
@a.gup.pedied. And now it's@fedigroupssocial. At least an alternative sprung up.#GuppeGroups #FedigroupsSocial #Lemmy #Groups #FediverseGroups
https://hub.peoplemaking.games/2025/10/06/devlog-september-2025/#guppe-groups-are-no-more
So now there are:
@[email protected]@[email protected]@[email protected]
Are most Tooters using@fedigroups.social, even knowing the same thing can happen again? Or are they switching to Lemmy for groups? Is it a good enough solution? -
CW: Many innovations that are being "brought to the Fediverse" have been in the Fediverse for a decade or longer; CW: long (over 2,500 characters), Fediverse meta, Fediverse-beyond-Mastodon meta
Whenever someone announces to "bring" something "to the Fediverse", chances are that Friendica has actually had it since 2010, for five and a half years longer than Mastodon has been around.
For example, just about everyone on Mastodon is fully convinced that Eugen Rochko has brought quote-posts to the Fediverse this year. That's because next to nobody on Mastodon knows that Friendica has been able to quote-post practically everything in the Fediverse, including Mastodon toots, for 15 years now.
And if Friendica doesn't have it, chances are still that Hubzilla has it, and that Hubzilla has probably had it for longer than Mastodon has been around, too.
For example, private messages that are actually private. Mastodon doesn't have them because the "privacy" of Mastodon DMs is only "guaranteed" by limiting whom a DM is sent to. Hubzilla does have them and has had them since 2012, since it was still named Red. How? Because Hubzilla also limits who is permitted to see a DM.
Oh, and Hubzilla even offers optional encryption on top of that.
Or how about server-independent identity? Everyone still waiting for Bluesky to finally be the pioneer who invents this and implements it for the first time? LOL! Once again, Hubzilla has had this since 2012. Not a vague concept, not an unstable proof-of-concept, but daily-driven by production-grade channels on production-grade servers. (streams) has it, too, inherited from Hubzilla through a whole number of forks. Forte has it, too, and Forte is the first and, so far, only Fediverse server software that uses ActivityPub for nomadic identity.
Now I'm waiting for someone to announce that something will "bring" actual groups "to the Fediverse". A feature that was actually introduced to the Fediverse by StatusNet in 2008, and that's also available on Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte. Not to mention that the very principle of the Threadiverse (Lemmy, the remains of /kbin, Mbin, PieFed) is based on groups.
This is what happens when you think that the feature set of the whole Fediverse is the feature set of Mastodon and maybe Pixelfed because that's all you know.
Speaking of Mastodon: Just because it's being "brought to the Fediverse", doesn't mean it'll be adopted by Mastodon.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #MastodonCentrism #MastodonNormativity #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #NomadicIdentity #StatusNet #Threadiverse #Lemmy #/kbin #Mbin #PieFed #Groups #FediGroups #FediverseGroups -
CW: Major breakage on Hubzilla 10.6 due to switching to FEP-e232 Object Links; CW: long (over 5,000 characters), Fediverse meta, Fediverse-beyond-Mastodon meta, non-Mastodon Fediverse meta
Just because it works under your very limited and controlled lab conditions, doesn't mean it will work just as well under real-life conditions.
A few may remember the summer of 2024 when (streams) rolled out FEP-171b. It broke federation in every imaginable way because, as it turned out later, (streams) suddenly confused the many different IDs it had to juggle. Granted, the byproduct of trying to fix this was Forte, the first Fediverse server software to provide nomadic identity via nothing but ActivityPub.
Now Hubzilla rolled out FEP-e232. And there's breakage again. Not quite as badly, but in places that really hurt.
So the talk of the town in the Fediverse is Mastodon 4.5 introducing quote-posts. (Mastodon 4.5 allegedly introducing quote-posts to the Fediverse, and how that's wrong, is another story.)
Interestingly, almost at the same time, Hubzilla 10.6 was rolled out. Money quote from the announcement:- Implement FEP-e232 (object links) for quote posts
FEP-e232 Object Links in practice usually = "quote-posts like Misskey" = linking to the original with "RE:" before the link.
Apparently, rather than what Hubzilla had been doing since 2012 when it was still Red. What Friendica has been doing since its own inception in 2010. Namely insert a dumb copy of the quoted post into the quoting post.
While (streams) and Forte have been supporting FEP-e232 under the bonnet for quite a while while still quote-posting with dumb copies, Hubzilla has decided to go all the way and replace the old-fashioned Friendica way of quote-posting entirely with the Misskey way that's all the rage in the Fediverse now.
Yes, this has its advantages. If the original is edited, then the edit (in theory) is reflected in all posts that quote-post it.
But here on Hubzilla, this switch causes trouble.
Mastodon rolled out rendering support for Misskey-style quote-posts before rolling out quote-posts themselves, so those Mastodon servers that can't render these quote-posts are hopelessly outdated.
Hubzilla, on the other hand, rolled out Misskey-style quote-posts with version 10.6 while 10.4 and older can't even render Misskey-style quote-posts, not even when they come straight from a *key. In this regard, it would have been smarter to first make sure that Hubzilla renders this kind of quote-posts, then wait for a few minor releases and then change the way Hubzilla quote-posts.
You may see this as just a minor nuisance. But on top of that, it breaks Hubzilla's forums.
See, Hubzilla's forums are based on quote-posts. You start a new thread by DM'ing to a forum, and the forum will automatically share (quote-post) your start post to all forum members. If it's a private, limited-access forum, only the forum members are permitted to see the post with your quoted post in it.
I guess it's kind of obvious that this can only work by quote-posting a dumb copy of the start post unless a few more stops are being pulled.
Now, however, forums on Hubzilla 10.6 quote-post start posts by linking to the original. Remember that the original is a DM to the forum. As in only the forum is permitted to see it. You can click the link to the original all you want. But unless you run the forum, Hubzilla will not let you see it, not even with all the OpenWebAuth magic sign-on that you have on yourself as a Hubzilla user. In fact, I'd be very worried if I could see it now.
If there was even only one active forum on one of the two public hubs that run development versions, this critical bug would have popped up earlier and been fixed before it would have hit a release. But apparently, nobody is crazy enough to run a forum on a dev-grade hub, not to mention how few active Hubzilla forums there are in the first place. Seriously, I wonder if there's any feedback coming from the two dev hubs because I never see any hit the Support Forum. Does it all go straight to Framagit?
Good thing hubzilla.org is still running Hubzilla 10.4. hubzilla.org is not only the official Hubzilla website, it's actually a Hubzilla hub itself. The official Hubzilla website is built on a Hubzilla channel, using the Webpages app. And hubzilla.org is home of the Hubzilla Support Forum. It would have been a disaster, had this forum been broken, too.
I guess there's a hotfix due now, even if it means reverting FEP-e232 support (although changing the permissions of a DM to a forum channel would do the trick, and looking at how (streams) and Forte do it would be even smarter). And I hope it'll come before hubzilla.org is upgraded to 10.6.
By the way, while it's at it, maybe Hubzilla could also permanently set that GoToSocial/Mastodon flag that allows being quote-posted. I mean, if you come to a place that has been able to quote-post for a whopping 13 years, that can quote-post any public content from anywhere in the Fediverse with zero resistance, and that has no control over whether or not your stuff can be quote-posted (other than not posting in public), it's safe to assume that you're okay with your stuff being quote-posted anyway.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Mastodon #Misskey #GoToSocial #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Forums #Groups #FediverseGroups #FediGroups #FEP_e232 -
@mradcliffe The danger in this, however, is that another Fediverse feature that's way older than Mastodon and at the same time absent from Mastodon would be reappropriated as something else, making Mastodon even more incompatible with the rest of the Fediverse.
In 2017, Mastodon introduced its content warning field. Ever since, almost everyone on Mastodon has been fully convinced that Eugen Rochko had invented that field from scratch. (Be honest, how about you?)
However, Mastodon's content warning field is actually a summary field that has been used by StatusNet, Friendica and Hubzilla as such since 2008, 2010 and 2012 respectively. Mastodon hadn't had any support for that summary field at first, for you don't need a summary for 500 characters. And I guess that coder from the demo scene who submitted the merge request that reappropriated the summary field as a content warning field was blissfully unaware that Mastodon was actually connected to something that did use the summary field as such.
And now you have Mastodon users scolding Friendica users because the latter allegedly misuse the CW field for "like a subject or smth idk", unaware that the self-same field has been the abstract field on Friendica for five and a half years longer than Mastodon has even existed and some seven years longer than Mastodon had its CW field.
Today, in 2025, next to nobody on Mastodon knows that the Fediverse already has group actors, and probably neither do many on the *keys. Neither Mastodon nor Misskey nor their respective forks have or support groups in any way.
If they go and reappropriate group actors as starter packs, this will break compatibility with Friendica groups, Hubzilla forums, (streams) groups, Forte groups, Lemmy communities, /kbin magazines, Mbin magazines, PieFed communities, NodeBB forums etc., all of which can be and often already are being followed by Mastodon and *key users right now. And again, they've all had group actors since their respective inception.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Mastodon #Misskey #Forkey #Forkeys #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Lemmy #/kbin #Mbin #PieFed #NodeBB #CW #CWs #CWMeta #ContentWarning #ContentWarnings #ContentWarningMeta #Group #Groups #GroupActor #GroupActors #FediGroups #FediverseGroups -
@Decenta Lyzed
Meanwhile #Friendica
& #Hubzilla have some groups too.
Friendica has groups. Hubzilla has groups called "forums". Both have had groups for longer than Mastodon has even been around.
(streams), a fork of a fork of three forks of a fork (of a fork?) of Hubzilla created and still maintained by Friendica's and Hubzilla's own creator, has groups.
Forte, a fork of (streams) by the same developer again, has groups.
All four are in the Fediverse. All four are federated with Mastodon (Hubzilla optionally and off by default, (streams) optionally and on by default, Friendica and Forte always). By the way, this comment comes from Hubzilla.
For self-hosters: All four are written in PHP, and they require no more than a LAMP stack. But if you don't know them, e.g. if all you know in the Fediverse is Mastodon, I recommend you try them out on a public server before setting up your own one. They're all very different from Mastodon in a lot of ways. Don't just expect Mastodon with groups because that's far from what they are.
Here are several tables that compare the features of Mastodon, Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte.How they work
A Friendica group is an account with special settings. Likewise, a Hubzilla forum or a (streams) or Forte group is a channel with special settings.
Speaking in Mastodon terms, what they do is take incoming posts and automatically boost them to all their followers.
An exception exists on Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte themselves: If you're there, you must send a DM to the forum/group. Public posts to a group/forum are not forwarded, only DMs are. This ensures that a group/forum doesn't forward any and all posts that happen to mention it.FLOSS
Friendica is open-source (https://github.com/friendica) and under the GNU Affero GPL v3.
Hubzilla is open-source (https://framagit.org/hubzilla/core) and under the MIT license.
(streams) is open-source (https://codeberg.org/streams/streams) and in the public domain.
Forte is open-source (https://codeberg.org/fortified/forte) and under the MIT license.Character limits
The character limit on Friendica and Hubzilla is over 16.7 million.
The character limit on (streams) and Forte is over 24 million.
Nobody will run out of characters anytime soon, no matter from where they post. However, this also means that neither of the four has Mastodon's character-limit-induced culture of brevity.Moderation
Friendica groups can be co-moderated/co-administrated by users on the same server as the group.
Hubzilla forums, (streams) groups and Forte groups can be co-moderated/co-administrated by anyone on Hubzilla, (streams) or Forte.
Two of the public (streams) and Forte group types allow for new content to be moderated: Any new post or comment must be manually approved by the moderators. In both cases, this is mainly for new members. Trustworthy members can be permitted to post or comment immediately.Privacy and security
Friendica groups, Hubzilla forums, (streams) groups and Forte groups can optionally be hidden from directories and made "secret".
Friendica groups can optionally be set to private, i.e. non-members can't see the group profile, the member list or what's going on in the group.
On Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte, the profile, the member list and the stream can be reduced in visibility separately from each other. You can make the group profile public, and at the same time, you can only permit group members to see the member list and/or the stream.
Hubzilla offers eight levels of permission for seeing the forum's main profile, additional profiles that can only be seen by members/certain members, eight levels of permission for seeing the forum's member list and eight levels of permission for seeing the forum stream. One level of permission depends on individual permissions for certain members granted by contact role.
(streams) and Forte offer four group types, one of which is private, four levels of permission for seeing the group's member list and four levels of permission for seeing the group stream. The non-public levels can be overridden by granting individual permissions to certain members.
(streams) and Forte also offer the same four levels of permission plus overrides for searching the group stream.
Note: It may not be possible to join a private group/forum with an account on Mastodon or anything else that isn't one of these four. Public groups/forums can be joined by anyone (unless they're blocked, of course).Resilience
Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte offer nomadic identity, i.e. the forum/group channel can exist simultaneously on multiple servers as live, hot, bidirectional backups of each other. If one server goes down, the forum/group lives on on the other server(s).
Something like this has been announced by Bluesky as a new and revolutionary technology. Bluesky has yet to deliver. Hubzilla has had this technology since 2012.
Downside: Server software that doesn't understand nomadic identity, i.e. everything except Hubzilla, (streams), Forte and at least the development branch of Mitra, sees the instances of a cloned, nomadic channel as multiple individual, independent accounts.
CC: @Fedi.Tips
CC so that everyone else in this thread will read this, even if they're on Mastodon (I wouldn't have to do this if the whole Fediverse supported threaded conversations, and everyone got this automatically anyway, but I don't want to post this several times over because someone on Mastodon hasn't received it due to Mastodon's intentional, by-design limitations): @Georgiana Brummell @Magical Cat @Michael Gisiger :mastodon: @LucileDT @Glowing Cat of the Nuclear Wastelands @AlsoPaisleyCat @Zeroday Podcast (stefan) @mtjm @amy
Also:{re-toot & boost my post if you find it helpful}
Twitter = Retweet
Mastodon = Boost
Twitter = Like
Mastodon = Fave
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Groups #FediGroups #FediverseGroups -
Bonfire, un projet que j'attendais depuis longtemps, est sorti aujourd'hui en version beta.
https://bonfirenetworks.org/posts/bonfire_social_rc/
C'est un projet compatible avec le Fédivers et Mastodon, mais qui va plus dans la direction des groupes Facebook. Beaucoup d'options pour avoir des groupes privés ou semi-public. Pouvoir contrôler qui a le droit de répondre (et enlever les réponses des trolls plutôt que juste les cacher)
#Bonfire #fedivers #groups #facebookGroups #fediverse #fediverseGroups
-
CW: If Mastodon's various user interfaces won't constantly advertise groups after Mastodon has introduced them, nobody will use them; CW: long (almost 1,800 characters), Fediverse meta, Fediverse-beyond-Mastodon meta
When Mastodon introduces groups, it had better also introduce a strikingly big "Groups" button to its Web interface and the official iOS and Android apps. And the major third-party phone apps had better follow suit as soon as possible.
Otherwise the majority of Mastodon users won't even know that the Fediverse has groups (it does right now, and they don't right now), much less that Mastodon has introduced them. And they'll go on shouting into the void like they've always done, hoping that the right people may happen upon their posts.
I mean, Mastodon has also copied Friendica's, Hubzilla's and (streams)' automatic, reader-side content warning generation into its existing filters and rolled that feature out with Mastodon 3.0 in October, 2022.
But next to nobody on Mastodon even knows that this feature exists anywhere in the Fediverse, much less on Mastodon itself. For the huge majority, putting content warnings into the summary field (of which next to nobody on Mastodon knows that it's actually a summary field) and forcing the very same content warnings on everyone in the Fediverse is without an alternative. As is demanding that the very same content warnings that one requires oneself be forced upon everyone else while oneself be spared from all other content warnings.
And, in fact, it also seems like hardly anyone on Mastodon knows that you can follow hashtags on Mastodon, just like you can follow people. There's no big honking button in front of everyone's noses for that either.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Groups #FediGroups #FediverseGroups #CW #CWs #CWMeta #ContentWarning #ContentWarnings #ContentWarningMeta -
@AJ Sadauskas
I mean, the Fediverse already has Lemmy, KBin, and MBin.
So there's already an ecosystem of pre-built communities out there.
/kbin is dead. Has been since last year. The last instances that haven't moved to Mbin are withering away.
However, in the "Lemmy clone" category, there's also PieFed, and Sublinks is still in development.
Also, the Facebook alternative Friendica ("Facebook alternative" not as in "Facebook clone", but as in "better than Facebook") has had groups since its launch in, 2010, five and a half years before Mastodon. Hubzilla has had groups since 2012 when it still was a Friendica fork named Red. (streams) (2021) and Forte (2024) have groups, too. All four are part of the same software family, created by the same developer. And interacting with their groups from Mastodon is somewhat smoother than interacting with a Lemmy community.
On Friendica, a group is simply another user account, but with different settings: In "Mastodon speak", it automatically boosts any DM sent to it to all its followers. In reality, it's a little more complicated because, unlike Mastodon, Friendica has a concept of threaded conversations. (No, seriously, Mastodon doesn't have it. If you think Mastodon has it, use Friendica for a year or two as your only daily driver, and then think again.)
Likewise, on Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte, it's another channel with similar settings.
CC: @myrmepropagandist @Jasper Bienvenido @sebastian büttrich @Asbestos
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #FediverseGroups #Groups #PieFed #Sublinks #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte -
CW: The Meta exodus, a new flood of newbies and the omnipresent search for a Facebook alternative; CW: long (almost 8,000 characters), Fediverse meta, Fediverse-beyond-Mastodon meta, Facebook mentioned
The Fediverse seems to be going crazy now. Or it's just me and the hashtag search RSS feeds on mastodon.social that I've recently subscribed to.
The blissfully uninformed for whom "Mastodon" and "Fediverse" mean the same have apparently been pushed into the background, just like the fundamentalists who want the Fediverse to be only Mastodon. Even those who have been dragged from Facebook to Mastodon by either of the two groups, and who try to apply what they're used to from Facebook to a wannabe Twitter clone, are few and far between.
No, there are many more for whom the Fediverse is Mastodon, Pixelfed, Loops and Friendica. For many of these, these four are fully separate networks, and they cannot for the lives of them imagine that you can be on one and directly connect to someone on another. I mean, you can't follow Instagram users from 𝕏 either, right? So why should this be possible in the Fediverse? Isn't the Fediverse an umbrella term for everything free, open-source and decentralised anyway? (Spoiler: No, it isn't. Yes, all that stuff is connected.)
Curiously, not only total Fediverse newbies believe this, but even people who have joined Mastodon in 2022. There are Mastodon users for whom the idea is totally alien that Mastodon users can follow non-Mastodon accounts. Mind you, sometimes while following users all over the Fediverse already.
And so there are Mastodon users who join Pixelfed, not because they want to post pictures, but because they want to follow someone on Pixelfed. And they cannot imagine that they can do that from Mastodon.
Likewise, there are Mastodon users who join Friendica, not to shake off Mastodon's tight constraints and get a taste of the good stuff, but because some of their Facebook friends want to join Friendica, too. And they cannot imagine that they can follow Friendica accounts from Mastodon. Even though they may actually already do that.
Speaking of Friendica: This is where things got even crazier.
There are people looking for a Facebook alternative in the Fediverse. Some say someone should totally make one. Because the Facebook alternatives that already exist in the Fediverse, some of which have actually been around for longer than Mastodon, are still too obscure.
And then there are those who do know Facebook alternatives in the Fediverse.
That is, for one, there's the faction for whom "the" Facebook alternative in the Fediverse is Friendica. Not because they think Hubzilla, (streams), Forte and Socialhome are unfit as Facebook alternatives. But because they've never heard of Hubzilla, (streams), Forte or Socialhome. And they themselves are on Mastodon, they don't know a single Friendica user, they've never (knowingly anyway) come into contact with a Facebook user, and so they only know Facebook from hearsay and by name.
And then there's the faction that suggests Friendica and diaspora*. Clearly, they only know both from hearsay and by name, too. For it's obvious that they don't know two important things about diaspora*.
One, diaspora* does not use ActivityPub. It is not federated with Mastodon (which, for many, defines "Fediverse"). The only projects that can communicate both via ActivityPub and with diaspora* are Friendica, Hubzilla and Socialhome. Granted, if you regard the various server applications in the Fediverse as "decentralised walled gardens", and if following a Friendica account from Mastodon goes beyond your comprehension, this doesn't matter.
Two, diaspora* is withering away. A few days before New Year's Eve 2024, several of the bigger diaspora* pods shut down for good. According to at least one statistics site, diaspora* lost more than half of its users within three days. And on Saturday, January, 25th, diasp.org will be the next, one of the biggest and most important pods.
Well, and then there are those on Mastodon who think about joining Friendica, but who need some information first. They shout their request for help into the void. And almost never does even a single actual Friendica user reply. Not even a former Friendica user. Instead, either all replies come from other Mastodon users who only know Friendica from hearsay, or nobody replies at all.
All this is where I keep having to step in.
Just like the last three years when I kept having to tell people that, no, the Fediverse is not only Mastodon, now I often have to tell them that, no, Friendica is not the only existing alternative to Facebook in the Fediverse. I've lost count of how many times I've told people about Hubzilla and especially (streams). I've even made comparison tables that cover Friendica, Hubzilla and (streams) and additionally Mastodon so that Mastodon users have something they can relate to, just so that I don't have to explain the same stuff over and over again.
It's especially when a replacement for Facebook groups, private groups in particular, is requested that I suggest (streams) instead of Friendica. Yes, Friendica has private groups, too. But why not try and go all the way with fine-grained permission control, with four different types of groups to choose from and with the possibility to use the permission system to appoint additional admins, not to mention instance shutdown resilience by means of nomadic identity?
I may actually have successfully gotten a few people to join (streams). The lack of public, open-registration instances (there are only two) doesn't even seem to matter because many are looking for something to host themselves. (streams) is nice for self-hosting because it has a rather small footprint, especially considering how powerful it is, and all it needs is a LAMP stack. Granted, self-hosting (streams) kind of defeats the need for nomadic identity, at least mostly. And I'm still not sold about the idea of setting up a server of something before you really know what it is and how it works and handles. Oh well.
In fact, I'm recommending (streams) more often than Hubzilla now, also because it's easier less difficult to set your channel up and get going. I mean, (streams) can really need some more users. Still, it kind of feels like backstabbing the Hubzilla community that's looking for new users itself. And it'd feel like going into direct competition with the Friendica community, weren't it for the fact that the Friendica veterans whom I'm directly or indirectly connected to don't even notice most of those help requests, much less what I'm doing.
That is, if someone really explicitly needs help with Friendica specifically, I do something else: I import the post itself into my stream, and then I repeat (= boost) it. I'm connected to enough Friendica users to increase the likeliness of help from the right people by magnitudes.
But often enough, the biggest obstacle is another: The help-seeker is on an iPhone, probably exclusively, and they couldn't possibly use any Fediverse server software without a native iOS app. In this case, it barely matters whether they join Friendica or Hubzilla or (streams): There's nothing for Friendica in the Apple App Store.
Yeah, sure, you can connect Friendica to at least some Mastodon apps, much unlike Hubzilla and (streams). But using Friendica with a Mastodon app that doesn't cover several of Friendica's core features can only be a stopgap, and what people are looking for is a full-blown, permanent replacement for the Web interface which they never ever want to lay their eyes and hands on. Ever. And getting into the beta test for Relatica is too much of a hassle for almost everyone.
But seriously, why do I, a Hubzilla and (streams) user, have to give more Friendica support than actual Friendica users?
Well, at least I've yet to be attacked for alleged reply-guying and Fedisplaining.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Facebook #FacebookReplacement #FacebookGroups #diaspora* #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Groups #FediverseGroups -
@Jerry Lerman
That it works only between Friendica instances is not a surprise.
It doesn't.
AFAIK, you can also join private Friendica groups from Hubzilla (made from a Friendica fork by Friendica's own creator) and (streams) (fork of a fork of three forks of a fork (of a fork) of Hubzilla, still by the same creator). Nobody knows this because at least three out of four Fediverse users have never even heard the name Hubzilla, (streams) is almost entirely unknown outside its own and Hubzilla's user communities, and what they can do, even fewer people know.
What's true, however, is that you can't join private Friendica groups from anywhere else like Mastodon. And you can't join private Hubzilla or (streams) groups/forums from outside Hubzilla and (streams) AFAIK due to their very advanced permissions systems.
CC: @Shiri Bailem @earthman
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Groups #FediverseGroups -
@D1re_W0lf
So, AFAIK there's no mobile app that can fully interoperate with Friendica or Streams.
There are multiple dedicated Android apps for Friendica. First and foremost, there is RaccoonForFriendica, but there are also DiCa and Friendiqa. I can't say how much of Friendica's functionality either of them covers; I left Friendica many years ago.
There is also Relatica for both Android and iOS, but it's a closed beta, you have to apply for testing it, and it may be buggy.
As for (streams), no, there isn't any mobile app for it. And it's highly unlikely that there will ever be one. After all, the goal for such an app should be to be a full replacement for the Web interface. Just look around Mastodon; there are plenty of users who have been around since October/November, 2022, or longer, and who have never even seen the Web interface. So even a mobile app for (streams) with a native mobile UI that only covers what users are likely to need sooner or later would be more complex than FairEmail, and FairEmail is a monster.
Also, (streams) tends to change quickly and without notice. (streams) isn't a project that ceremoniously rolls out new releases like Mastodon, Friendica or Hubzilla, and Fediverse Report has something to cover in its news. Instead, even if the main dev has declared himself retired from Fediverse development, (streams) rolls out new versions every couple days without telling anyone. And a native mobile (streams) app would always have to catch up with these changes.
By the way, there has been one attempt at building an Android app for Hubzilla. It is named Nomad, it's still available on F-Droid, but it hasn't been updated in over five years. Most of it is not native, though; it mostly displays the Web interface. Granted, Hubzilla actually manages to be even more complex than its own descendant (streams).
@KnittingMittens (She/Her) Friendica was made to replace all important functionality of Facebook from the get-go, and not just yesterday, but in 2010, over five years before Mastodon was made. The only Facebook features "missing" from Friendica are Facebook's games, data mining and half the population of the planet having an account on the same website.
If Facebook has it (on its Web interface anyway), and it's actually needed for social networking (FarmVille isn't, for example), then Friendica has had it readily available for almost a decade and a half.
(streams) is from Friendica's own creator and down a long path of forks of which Hubzilla was the first. It still carries Friendica's DNA (minus Friendica's many connection and federation options), but it's technologically more advanced and more geared towards privacy, security and resilience which also gives it a bit more of a learning curve.
Also, both do have groups built-in. Friendica can optionally have private groups, and (streams) can have public groups on three security levels plus private groups, all with some extra permissions configurable.
Here are some comparison tables with Mastodon, Friendica, Hubzilla and (streams) which I've made this week; they should clear a few things up.
CC: @The Gym Nerd @Ghurir @S 🌱 L V I Λ
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Facebook #FacebookReplacement #FacebookGroups #Fediverse #FediverseGroups #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) -
@Ur Ya'ar I guess I can call myself a Hubzilla veteran. I was there when it introduced "tech levels" which are long gone. I currently have multiple cloned channels, and I do use Hubzilla's special features like articles and wikis occasionally.
That said, I also use something that you may not have heard of. It's at the end of a long line of forks which leads back to Hubzilla and Friendica, all from the same creator. Officially, it's intentionally nameless and brandless. Colloquially, it's named (streams) after its code repository. I've got two channels there as well.
If you want to dive in headfirst, but your Fediverse experience is largely limited to Mastodon, then I'd say that (streams) is easier to get into (only few public, open-registration instances are the biggest obstacle).
Most importantly, (streams) makes handling permissions a great deal easier, and on both Hubzilla and (streams), permissions are everything, and everything is permissions. I mean, I've started writing a Hubzilla getting-started guide, and it contains a whole lot of configuration and app installations and stuff before you can even think about connecting to anyone, much less post.
I'd say that (streams) is better for groups/forums as well. You can do private groups/forums on Hubzilla, but they require the "dreaded" Custom channel role plus getting past a warning pop-up to configure the channel-wide permissions. That's because the only pre-defined channel role for a forum is public.
(streams), on the other hand, has four channel types for groups/forums:- Normal (public, with file upload for group members to the group channel)
- Limited (like Normal, but without file upload for group members to the group channel)
- Moderated (like Limited, but posts and comments from new members have to be approved by those who are appointed admins; this isn't possible on Hubzilla at all AFAIK)
- Restricted (like Normal, but with membership approval by admins and with profile, members and stream hidden from non-members)
As a normal user, you can hide any of your connections from spying eyes, including groups/forums which you don't want to openly admit you're a member of. But that's possible on Hubzilla as well.
(streams) has a few more perks in comparison to Hubzilla. For example, alt-text. (streams) lets you add alt-text to images either when uploading them to the file space of your channel or after uploading. And whenever you embed that image into a post, you always get the same alt-text. Hubzilla, on the other hand, always requires you to manually edit the image-embedding BBcode in your post draft and add the alt-text to it.
Speaking of BBcode, Hubzilla only supports that in posts. (streams) supports any combination of BBcode, Markdown and HTML.
Hubzilla's big advantage are of course the several extra features: Articles, Cards, Wikis, Webpages. And unlike (streams), it still keeps newer versions of some of Friendica's many connectors around, including to diaspora*.
In case you're curious, I've made an article with a number of tables that compare the features of Mastodon, Friendica (as far as I know them), Hubzilla and (streams). Here it is.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Groups #FediverseGroups -
-
@Melstrom :mstdn: Hope this helps. None of this is Mastodon, but all of this is connected to Mastodon.
- Directory of 200+ Friendica groups/forums:
https://dir.friendica.social/group - Directory of 27,000+ Lemmy communities:
https://lemmyverse.net/communities - Lemmy communities, Mbin magazines and PieFed communities known to the biggest Mbin instance:
https://fedia.io/magazines - Lemmy communities, Mbin magazines and PieFed communities known to the PieFed lighthouse instance:
https://piefed.social/communities - If that still isn't enough, here are lists of various Hubzilla forums and (streams) groups known to two Hubzilla hubs:
https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/directory?f=&pubforums=1
https://hub.hubzilla.de/directory?f=&pubforums=1
Fair warning ahead: Not only is none of this Mastodon, but none of this is based on Mastodon, and none of this is developed for Mastodon. Handling of groups listed on either of these may be a bit less than straight-forward and self-explanatory if Mastodon is all you're used to, also because Mastodon has no built-in support whatsoever for actual Fediverse groups.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #FediverseGroups #FediGroups #Groups #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Lemmy #Mbin #PieFed #FediTips - Directory of 200+ Friendica groups/forums:
-
CW: The Social Web Foundation website is a Fediverse group?! CW: Fediverse meta, non-Mastodon Fediverse meta
The Social Web Foundation website is not only its own ActivityPub actor, but (streams) recognises and lists it as a group.
#What.
#FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #SocialWebFoundation #SWF #Fediverse #Groups #FediverseGroups #Wat #WTF -
I learn something new about the fediverse every day! Apparently there's a groups feature?!?!
I didn't join a #minecraft group first!
Shut up, you did.
-
I just had a bit of a look at kbin.social and I have to say, kbin looks really impressive!
If you've never heard of kbin, it's a fediverse platform specifically focusing on groups. Broadly speaking, similar to lemmy, the goal is to create a fediverse take on the reddit experience. However, kbin also integrates fediverse groups like gup.pe, chirp and friendica groups, and that is a killer feature as far as I'm concerned!
We've been running a lemmy instance for a few months now, but it might be time to look at spinning up our own kbin instance too!
#lemmy #kbin #fediverse #FediverseGroups #friendica #ChirpSocial #fedivangelism -
So I created a group on chirp.social - @fiftyplustech
Learn more here https://mstdn.social/@feditips/109503166927376214
-
Cheers @datatitian.
Great to know that there's a sensible way to do #groups on fedi!
So that's your part of the mystery solved, @sl007. Its probably for the best because the fewer unneeded things in the notifications the better.
Here's hoping the 'Epicyon issue' ceases to be an issue soon also.