#nosh — Public Fediverse posts

Since I was visiting the 'daemontools' account on #GitHub, I took a look at what the people who mistakenly thought that it was someone actually involved, have done.

Not much, fortunately.

One wheel reinvention that didn't even look at Bruce Guenter's daemontools-encore.

Only one thing worth following up on, in 13 years:

https://github.com/daemontools/daemontools/issues/8

The bugfix will be in #djbwares version 13 when it comes out. As noted, neither @ska's nor my #nosh reimplementations have this bug.

#daemontools

Since I was visiting the 'daemontools' account on #GitHub, I took a look at what the people who mistakenly thought that it was someone actually involved, have done.

Not much, fortunately.

One wheel reinvention that didn't even look at Bruce Guenter's daemontools-encore.

Only one thing worth following up on, in 13 years:

https://github.com/daemontools/daemontools/issues/8

The bugfix will be in #djbwares version 13 when it comes out. As noted, neither @ska's nor my #nosh reimplementations have this bug.

#daemontools

Since I was visiting the 'daemontools' account on #GitHub, I took a look at what the people who mistakenly thought that it was someone actually involved, have done.

Not much, fortunately.

One wheel reinvention that didn't even look at Bruce Guenter's daemontools-encore.

Only one thing worth following up on, in 13 years:

https://github.com/daemontools/daemontools/issues/8

The bugfix will be in #djbwares version 13 when it comes out. As noted, neither @ska's nor my #nosh reimplementations have this bug.

#daemontools

Since I was visiting the 'daemontools' account on #GitHub, I took a look at what the people who mistakenly thought that it was someone actually involved, have done.

Not much, fortunately.

One wheel reinvention that didn't even look at Bruce Guenter's daemontools-encore.

Only one thing worth following up on, in 13 years:

https://github.com/daemontools/daemontools/issues/8

The bugfix will be in #djbwares version 13 when it comes out. As noted, neither @ska's nor my #nosh reimplementations have this bug.

#daemontools

Since I was visiting the 'daemontools' account on #GitHub, I took a look at what the people who mistakenly thought that it was someone actually involved, have done.

Not much, fortunately.

One wheel reinvention that didn't even look at Bruce Guenter's daemontools-encore.

Only one thing worth following up on, in 13 years:

https://github.com/daemontools/daemontools/issues/8

The bugfix will be in #djbwares version 13 when it comes out. As noted, neither @ska's nor my #nosh reimplementations have this bug.

#daemontools

@david_chisnall

dnscache, as you can see from that manual, needs both TCP and UDP listening sockets, so there's a TCP tool. The service ./run script for the DNS server chains through both tools.

There are also the three different kinds of AF_LOCAL listener tools.

http://jdebp.info/Softwares/nosh/guide/commands.html#UCSPIChainLoading

@BastilleBSD
#nosh

@BastilleBSD

Yes, there exist #FreeBSD tools that can set up the socket and the environment variable. I wrote one such tool years ago, and have been running a DNS server that accepts pre-created listening sockets and itself runs wholly unprivileged for almost as long.

Tell any naysayers that it can be done. (-:

http://jdebp.info/Softwares/nosh/guide/commands/udp-socket-listen.xml

http://jdebp.info/Softwares/djbwares/guide/commands/dnscache.xml

#dnscache #nosh #AdGuardHome

@cks @drscriptt

By the way: It's DEC Private Mode 67 (a.k.a. DECBKM) for controlling Backspace, and DEC Private Mode 1037 for Delete.

Not every terminal emulator understands these. But they're understood by things as wide ranging as hterm and mintty.

I copied these from #DECVTs and XTerm in my terminal emulator, and my #setterm has options for generating both DECSM/DECRM mode switches.

http://jdebp.info/Softwares/nosh/guide/commands/setterm.xml

#nosh #TerminalEmulators

@ermo

Given that you've built this package from source, run

sh bsd/nosh-bundles/post-install

pkg has sh source the scripts, so sh doesn't know to print line numbers in the error messages. If you tell sh to run the script from file it will, which will help narrow down which of the ~1100 lines it is.

You don't need to run the script as the superuser to get sh to find this particular error. Ignore all of the permissions errors that will come out, though. (-:

#nosh

@ermo

Confusing. The only package with a post-install script that uses redo is nosh-run-system-manager. That does have a declared dependency upon redo in its +MANIFEST.

In any case, the unterminated quoted string error would not be the result of a missing redo utility. That's a script syntax error, not a command going wrong error. sh unfortunately doesn't report such a syntax error here.

#nosh

@ermo

Important note 1C does address how one goes back to the old system.

The pre-deinstall script for the nosh-run-system-manager package (on FreeBSD) makes that very modification persistently in /boot/loader.conf , so just uninstalling that package is also a way back.

(On Debian Linux, the mechanism is a symbolic link; and again, installing and deinstalling the package persistently switches the #nosh system manager in and out.)

#SystemManager

@ermo

Excellent.

Yes, the latest released versions are supposed to be a version behind the actual development source. I freeze the source, do a binaries release, and start a new development version.

So #redo latest binary release is 1.5, and #nosh is 1.41.

#djbwares is at version 12, with version 13 under development. I must have forgotten to update the WWW page.

@cks

I suspect that this has changed over the years. Kay Sievers's original proposal in 2010 indeed had the active device as the last one. But Lennart Poettering writing in 2012, after things had settled down amongst the kernel developers, wrote that the active device was the first one. I vaguely remember inspecting the code that constructed the string to check, at the time. I'll try to remember to have another look.

https://0pointer.de/blog/projects/serial-console.html

#Linux #console #vt #manual #nosh

@cks

I write a console(4) and a vt(4) manual page for #Linux, too, as there is a larger gap there, Linux doco not having a vt(4) page as #FreeBSD does.

http://jdebp.info/Softwares/nosh/guide/commands/linux-console.xml

http://jdebp.info/Softwares/nosh/guide/commands/linux-vt.xml

#console #vt #manual #nosh

@cks

I wrote a console(4) manual page some years ago, to fill in a gap.

http://jdebp.info/Softwares/nosh/guide/commands/freebsd-console.xml

#FreeBSD #console #manual #nosh

New Mediterranean, Middle Eastern restaurant now open at Easton | Nosh

Shawerma Bite, which specializes in Mediterranean and Middle Eastern food, opened Jan. 2 at 4100 Worth Ave. in Columbus at Easton Town Center. Housed in the space that previously was Dragon Donut…
#dining #cooking #diet #food #mediterranean #MediterraneanDiet #MediterraneanFood #Mediterranean #mediterraneanfood #nosh
https://www.diningandcooking.com/2471822/new-mediterranean-middle-eastern-restaurant-now-open-at-easton-nosh/

New Mediterranean, Middle Eastern restaurant now open at Easton | Nosh

Shawerma Bite, which specializes in Mediterranean and Middle Eastern food, opened Jan. 2 at 4100 Worth Ave. in Columbus at Easton Town Center. Housed in the space that previously was Dragon Donuts before it closed in August 2024,…
#dining #cooking #diet #food #MediterraneanFood #Mediterranean #mediterraneanfood #nosh
https://www.diningandcooking.com/2471822/new-mediterranean-middle-eastern-restaurant-now-open-at-easton-nosh/

New Mediterranean, Middle Eastern restaurant now open at Easton | Nosh https://www.diningandcooking.com/2471822/new-mediterranean-middle-eastern-restaurant-now-open-at-easton-nosh/ #Mediterranean #MediterraneanFood #nosh

In light of recent reports I thought about adding AF_VSOCK support (if that is meaningful) to the #nosh toolset's #ifconfig .

It turns out that there's no vsock device on my Debian development machine.

I do not have the time at the moment to look into this more thoroughly.

I knew that there was #HJKL navigation and #WASD navigation, and some of the full-screen utilities in the #nosh toolset support both.

I read that there's also QAOP, which alas contradicts the conventional use of 'q' that those utilities already have, and ESDF which alas overlaps WASD.

One cannot be all things to all people, and it seems excessive to make this configurable somehow when they're only limited-use bonuses over just using the normal arrow keys.

#ComputerGaming #ComputerKeyboards

@lymenzies

If you want a FreeBSD-like ifconfig on Linux-based operating systems, I made one. I needed the same syntax across both.

http://jdebp.info/Softwares/nosh/

http://jdebp.info/Softwares/nosh/guide/commands/ifconfig.xml

#ifconfig #FreeBSD #nosh

@developing_agent @mcc @ariadne

Even simply separately packaging binaries and hooks *today* would avoid the problem whereby the systemd-all-in-one package always installs all possible runtime hooks, some of which try to spin up systemd-logind, and systemd itself, by various surprising back-routes.

http://jdebp.info/Softwares/nosh/guide/services/systemd-logind.html

Gerrit Pape had packaged runit-run and runit-init separately from runit, and this was the model to follow.

@ska
#nosh #runit

Just for fun I created a Shavian QWERTY keyboard map for #FreeBSD.

The hard part turned out to be that I had to work from pictures of layout diagrams, and tiny ones at that, cross-referencing them by eye against a Unicode chart. No-one has a text list of what Shavian alphabet characters go with what keys.

I named it gb-shaw, of course.

#ShavianAlphabet #nosh #uservt #KeyboardLayouts

@freezr

If you like the FreeBSD syntax, I have an ifconfig that is closer to FreeBSD syntax than the net-tools one is.

In fact, that was its raison d'être. It brought (most of) the FreeBSD syntax to Debian so that I could auto-translate /etc/network/interfaces into FreeBSD-like setup that used ifconfig.

http://jdebp.info/Softwares/nosh/guide/commands/ifconfig.xml

http://jdebp.info/Softwares/nosh/guide/networking.html

#FreeBSD #ifconfig #nosh

The #nosh Guide has a whole chapter going into a lot more detail on HID configuration; which can range at the administrator's discretion from explicitly choosing accept-all-HIDs to a strong stance on supernumerary, misbehaving, or downright malicious #HumanInputDevices.

Given that I was one of several people who proposed going this way in the 1990s, it is long past the time that recompiling one's kernel was the way to choose what #HumanInputDevices to trust.

http://jdebp.info/Softwares/nosh/guide/user-virtual-terminal-configuration.html

#uservt

Just so that anyone coming across this #OpenBSD idea has any questions about the #nosh user-space virtual terminals:

In nosh uservts, USB HIDs are opt-in; whereas with most kernel VTs & X11, USB HIDs are opt-out.

The administrator has to explicitly choose (in the ways laid out in user-vt-realizer-configuration(5) which allow various combinations of address, class, and ID matching) to have a #YubiKey realized as a keyboard HID on the #uservt.

https://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article;sid=20250822064253

#FreeBSD #NetBSD #Linux

@tj

One can just plug a file into devd.

https://github.com/jdebp/nosh/blob/trunk/source/devd/hid-nosh.conf

Indeed, webcamd in ports has such a script.

* https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd-ports/blob/main/multimedia/webcamd/files/webcamd.conf.in

#nosh #webcamd #FreeBSD

@ytc1 @ptribble

You're asking the wrong person. (-:

#OmniOS on a #RaspberryPi is still at the idea stage for me, as I said.

The #OpenBSD installer does not work for installing directly onto my Pi that has 1 DASD, for reasons mentioned a few weeks ago, so now that I've got version 1.41 of my #nosh toolset out it's time to have another think of how I can get an OpenBSD system for building it, and OmniOS virtualization (if it even does amd64 on aarch64) is one idea.

@ermo

The PC-BSD challenge was, as you can see from the roadmap, not only doing the FreeBSD part but doing the various add-ons that PC-BSD/TrueOS had, as well.

http://jdebp.info/Softwares/nosh/roadmap.html

#GhostBSD seems to be the spritual successor to that. So as long as it has ZFS on root, and no bloody GRUB, I'm going to attempt it.

In an ironic twist, in 1.41 several of the PC-BSD services are now disabled, for security reasons.

#PCBSD #TrueOS #nosh

@ermo

This is still low on the priority list, though.

I'm tackling some of the things that I had explicitly put off until #nosh 1.42. #uschedule ported to NetBSD. dri framebuffer realizers. An #OpenBSD build machine somehow. Renaming the stuff that ends in -tty. And that big #GhostBSD conversion.

My internal TODO file is not empty. (-:

The #nosh Guide has a guide/virtual-terminal-login.html chapter on virtual terminal login, showing how all of the pieces fit together in such scripts, which bits are collectively what ttymon(1M) used to do and which bits are collectively what login(1M) used to do.

The same tools can be put together in other ways for other purposes. See the guide/login-conf.html chapter for how they can improve SSH by giving you ~/.login_conf support, for example.

#OpenSSH #getty #ttymon #login

There are many small steps ways to introduce onesself to all that the #nosh toolset can do. Here is one:

Make a copy of the /usr/local/bin/getty script from the nosh-linux-shims package, modify it to have the --tui-level ascii flag to login-envuidgid, and use it in place of /usr/libexec/getty or /sbin/getty on one of more of your kernel virtual terminals by modifying ttys(5).

man getty, of course.

You can use #!/bin/nosh and a fixed device name instead of #!/command/execlineb -S0 and "$0"

Now that #nosh version 1.41 is out, I get to look at all of the things that I was putting off until after the release.

So much.

uschedule for NetBSD. FreeBSD 13 build fixes for djbwares. dri framebuffer realizers. Deciding what to do about OpenBSD. index.gemini files for the site.

Re-installing that build machine as #GhostBSD!

@fazalmajid @cstross

There are some updated versions of daemontools. I did a consolidated one that addressed some bugs and added the manual pages without making fundamental changes.

http://jdebp.info/Softwares/djbwares/

Bruce Guenter's daemontools-encore changed the fundamentals slightly. Its control/status API is compatible with Bernstein's original, and with nosh.

http://jdebp.info/FGA/daemontools-family.html

#daemontools #nosh

@charadon @RL_Dane

van Smoorenburg #rc was never the thing to compare to. They realized this in the big Debian Hoo-Hah over systemd in ~2014, and almost everyone ruled it out as a reasonable option.

Mewburn rc pre-dated systemd by about a decade and a comparison to it would have ruined the whole "but-but-but look at the long shell scripts!" argument.

So too did comparison to the #daemontools family:

http://jdebp.info/FGA/run-scripts-and-service-units-side-by-side.html

#s6 #nosh #runit

@RL_Dane @charadon

Mewburn rc still uses PID files, a mechanism that people knew to be broken back in the middle 1980s. daemontools-family systems like runit do not.

There's no universal agreement on what a "service" is as opposed to a dæmon. But the concrete differences between the systems start with PID files, and continue with chain loading, logging, and composition.

http://jdebp.info/FGA/unix-daemon-design-mistakes-to-avoid.html#DoNotCreatePIDFiles

http://jdebp.info/FGA/daemontools-family.html

#runit #s6 #daemontools #nosh

@senzilla Yes, one of the fundamental differences with such tools is that there is no language compiler or language interpreter involved. There's not even syntax analysis, just lexing. There aren't even keywords.

http://jdebp.info/Softwares/nosh/guide/commands/nosh.xml

Yet with a toolset with a decent range, one can arrange doing a lot of system tasks.

#nosh #daemontools