#schipa — Public Fediverse posts
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For those who are curious as to my research reguarding Tito Schipa and Alceste Gerunda, here is the full story, along with what I found. I still have to tie up a few loose ends, but mostly, it's to satisfy my own curiosity and learn what else can be found, particularly in anyting unpublished, as I love anecdotes and whatnot. If anyone is in or from Lecce and could help me, that would be great. I am seeking more recordings by Gerunda's students, and anecdotes about him, as well as those about Schipa and his own teaching methods.
https://dandylover1.dreamwidth.org/252932.html
#anecdotes #AlcesteGerunda #BelCanto #history #Lecce #lessons #opera #singing #Schipa #TitoSchipa #VocalPedagogy
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(Note. I am not interested in modern theory or ideas. This is strictly about traditional bel canto. And just to get this out of the way, I am a contralto who is only interested in singing in the tenor range.)
Now that I know how to follow Alceste Gerunda's method, I am beginning with Garcia's exercises. However, the first ones I found on Youtube start with messa di voce.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B\_O2kQz4TIA
Schipa made it very clear that Gerunda focused heavily on this aspect of singing. But I asked Perplexity if, since these are my very first lessons, I should be doing this or not. Yes, I know it's ai. But this is why I am sharing the answer with you and asking if this is correct. It certainly does sound plausable. Note that I do have, if not perfect pitch, than something extremely close to it. I also pay very close attention to subtle details in recordings, so I am aware of what my own voice does. I am totally blind and cannot read braille music. At any rate, this is what Perplexity said. The first part of the answer refers to the exercise in the video.
"Duration of the Exercise
If you perform the sustained note exercise once through on each of the five vowels—repeating the full exercise sequence for “ah,” then “ee,” “eh,” “oh,” and “oo”—it could indeed take approximately twenty-five minutes, assuming each pass is five minutes long and you take minimal breaks. However, it is entirely reasonable to begin with just one or two vowels per session, especially as you are establishing your technique. Quality, ease, and concentration outweigh the mere length of the practice; there is no need to force all five vowels in a single session at the very beginning.
Is This Garcia’s “First Exercise”?
The sustained note (messa di voce) exercise is certainly one of the cornerstone practices in Manuel García II’s Treatise on the Art of Singing (originally “Traité complet de l’Art du Chant”) and is central to his vocal method. He places major emphasis upon the production of a sustained, even tone, gradually increasing and decreasing in intensity—essentially, the classic messa di voce. However, García’s treatise first addresses:
•
Physical preparation, posture, and the mechanics of breathing,
•
Simple emission of a clear tone,
•
And only then moves to messa di voce as the foundation for control and expressive development.
Though messa di voce is central and appears early in his method, García’s very first exercises are even more elemental: sustained straight tones on single vowels, without dynamic change, to establish clarity and freedom of production. The dynamic swell of true messa di voce is introduced shortly after, as skill and stability grow.
Should a Beginner Focus on Messa di Voce?
García himself—and the strictest Italian tradition—would ask absolute beginners to spend a period on:
•
Discovering where the voice is “placed,”
•
Cultivating a pure, unstressed sound on a single pitch and vowel,
•
Establishing breath support and freedom.
Only when these basics are secure does one progress to sustained notes with crescendo and diminuendo (the true messa di voce). Attempting dynamic shaping too early can lead to tension, shaky support, or bad habits if the vocal emission is not yet free and even.
Recommended Approach for Your First Lessons
•
Begin with sustained notes on a comfortable pitch and vowel (“ah” is preferred), simply holding a clear, free sound for several seconds at a soft–moderate volume.
•
Once this feels steady, introduce a gentle crescendo and diminuendo—but keep the motion small at first, avoiding strain or pushing.
•
Practise only as many repetitions as feel comfortable—at the outset, one or two vowels for fifteen minutes may suffice.
•
Alternate days: some days work only on pure, straight tone; others introduce a little dynamic shift.
Table: Progressive Approach
Lesson Stage
Activity
Duration
First week(s)
Simple sustained notes, 1-2 vowels
10–15 min
When stable/comfortable
Add gentle messa di voce, more vowels
15–25 min
Later phase
Full messa di voce on all vowels
25 min+"
Both Schipa and Perplexity mentioned voice placement. Can someone please explain this to me? When should I start Concone's and Schipa's exercises? When will I know that it's time to go to the next phase?
#AlcesteGerunda #BelCanto #ClassicalSinging #Concone #Garcia #Gerunda #ManuelGarcia #opera #learning #lessons #Schipa #TitoSchipa #singing
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(Note. I am not interested in modern theory or ideas. This is strictly about traditional bel canto. And just to get this out of the way, I am a contralto who is only interested in singing in the tenor range.)
Now that I know how to follow Alceste Gerunda's method, I am beginning with Garcia's exercises. However, the first ones I found on Youtube start with messa di voce.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B\_O2kQz4TIA
Schipa made it very clear that Gerunda focused heavily on this aspect of singing. But I asked Perplexity if, since these are my very first lessons, I should be doing this or not. Yes, I know it's ai. But this is why I am sharing the answer with you and asking if this is correct. It certainly does sound plausable. Note that I do have, if not perfect pitch, than something extremely close to it. I also pay very close attention to subtle details in recordings, so I am aware of what my own voice does. I am totally blind and cannot read braille music. At any rate, this is what Perplexity said. The first part of the answer refers to the exercise in the video.
"Duration of the Exercise
If you perform the sustained note exercise once through on each of the five vowels—repeating the full exercise sequence for “ah,” then “ee,” “eh,” “oh,” and “oo”—it could indeed take approximately twenty-five minutes, assuming each pass is five minutes long and you take minimal breaks. However, it is entirely reasonable to begin with just one or two vowels per session, especially as you are establishing your technique. Quality, ease, and concentration outweigh the mere length of the practice; there is no need to force all five vowels in a single session at the very beginning.
Is This Garcia’s “First Exercise”?
The sustained note (messa di voce) exercise is certainly one of the cornerstone practices in Manuel García II’s Treatise on the Art of Singing (originally “Traité complet de l’Art du Chant”) and is central to his vocal method. He places major emphasis upon the production of a sustained, even tone, gradually increasing and decreasing in intensity—essentially, the classic messa di voce. However, García’s treatise first addresses:
•
Physical preparation, posture, and the mechanics of breathing,
•
Simple emission of a clear tone,
•
And only then moves to messa di voce as the foundation for control and expressive development.
Though messa di voce is central and appears early in his method, García’s very first exercises are even more elemental: sustained straight tones on single vowels, without dynamic change, to establish clarity and freedom of production. The dynamic swell of true messa di voce is introduced shortly after, as skill and stability grow.
Should a Beginner Focus on Messa di Voce?
García himself—and the strictest Italian tradition—would ask absolute beginners to spend a period on:
•
Discovering where the voice is “placed,”
•
Cultivating a pure, unstressed sound on a single pitch and vowel,
•
Establishing breath support and freedom.
Only when these basics are secure does one progress to sustained notes with crescendo and diminuendo (the true messa di voce). Attempting dynamic shaping too early can lead to tension, shaky support, or bad habits if the vocal emission is not yet free and even.
Recommended Approach for Your First Lessons
•
Begin with sustained notes on a comfortable pitch and vowel (“ah” is preferred), simply holding a clear, free sound for several seconds at a soft–moderate volume.
•
Once this feels steady, introduce a gentle crescendo and diminuendo—but keep the motion small at first, avoiding strain or pushing.
•
Practise only as many repetitions as feel comfortable—at the outset, one or two vowels for fifteen minutes may suffice.
•
Alternate days: some days work only on pure, straight tone; others introduce a little dynamic shift.
Table: Progressive Approach
Lesson Stage
Activity
Duration
First week(s)
Simple sustained notes, 1-2 vowels
10–15 min
When stable/comfortable
Add gentle messa di voce, more vowels
15–25 min
Later phase
Full messa di voce on all vowels
25 min+"
Both Schipa and Perplexity mentioned voice placement. Can someone please explain this to me? When should I start Concone's and Schipa's exercises? When will I know that it's time to go to the next phase?
#AlcesteGerunda #BelCanto #ClassicalSinging #Concone #Garcia #Gerunda #ManuelGarcia #opera #learning #lessons #Schipa #TitoSchipa #singing
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Some time ago, I wrote regarding my journey tracing the pedagogical lineage of Tito Schipa, Alceste Gerunda, and Saverio Mercadante, with special emphasis on the first two. Well, I found what I was seeking quite by accident tonight! There is a lot here, so I am only quoting the relevant parts. Please excuse the errors, but this is from ocr text (the "full text" link). I cleaned it up as much as possible. This is not an ai translation. For those who love Schipa, it is worth reading his full interview, as he tells an interesting anecdote and also talks about the first "songs" he was allowed to sing.
https://archive.org/details/EtudeJuly1927
"That I am able to sing such a very great number of engagements, year after year, in opera and in concert, without any breakdown, I attribute very largely to the exhaustive drill of my maestro, Gerunda. When I first went to him, like all boys, I was wasting my voice by shouting. He taught me in the simplest and most natural manner possible, how to place my voice. Then he commenced a series of drills which lasted six and one-half years. Six and one-half years, with nothing but exercises!" He would not permit me under any circumstances to sing a song."
"... every day at every concert and every opera, I realize the enormous benefit that came from this exhaustive training from vocalises and vocal exercises. Sometimes, when my general physical condition is not good, I find that my early training keeps my vocal organs in such shape that I am able to go on with the concert.
“He gave me numerous exercises of his own. He gave me exercises and vocalises of Concone and Garcia. He gave me numerous scales, but he was most persistent upon a beautiful sustained tone, or, as they say in Italian, nota tenuta. In addition to this, I was obliged to practice with the very greatest perseverance, sustained notes, singing them crescendo and diminuendo. Gerunda would make me do this with agonizing care. That is, I would start, for instance, upon C upon the third space of the treble clef, the note becoming gradually fuller and fuller for three and one-half measures and then diminishing in value for another three and one-half measures, until it finally faded away. The importance of the crescendo and diminuendo controlled at the will of the singer is so enormous that I am amazed that more attention is not paid to it regularly. After all, through diminuendo and crescendo, one has one of the most significant elements in expression. How rarely does one hear a good crescendo and a good diminuendo on a sustained tone."
I am going to start by working on individual notes, then progress to scales, then arpegios, and then exercises. Someone actually sent me Garcia's exercises, which do exactly what Schipa was talking about in the interview! Originally, I was avoiding him, since i heard he added science into training, though he didn't dramatically change things. However, if Alceste Gerunda himself used his exercises with his students, I am not going to question that! Plus, this is exactly what Schipa was describing in the interview! It's also for the tenor range, so I feel truly comfortable singing it. Anyway, I was sent the first, but I am including the next two, before "advanced" is added to the titles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_O2kQz4TIA&list=PL-pA3D_qO_cADzuMne5tJyUv_s5wvTutS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzubQvwao60
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZOnhGlp4GI
When can I begin using Schipa's? He taught quite differently, apparently not mentioning single notes, breath, etc. How will I know once I am ready to progress to the next phase? Since I am studying harmony from Prout and must do this by ear (I am blind and cannot read braille music), can I incorporate things such as learning the names of the notes (including changes in different keys and directions of scales) as I do my vocal exercises?
The Reddit links for the above discussions can be found here.
https://www.reddit.com/r/opera/comments/1m3bi3i/update_on_singing_journey_and_research_on_schipa/
#AlcesteGerunda #BelCanto #exercises #Gerunda #opera #Schipa #singing #TitoSchipa #VocalPedagogy
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Some time ago, I wrote regarding my journey tracing the pedagogical lineage of Tito Schipa, Alceste Gerunda, and Saverio Mercadante, with special emphasis on the first two. Well, I found what I was seeking quite by accident tonight! There is a lot here, so I am only quoting the relevant parts. Please excuse the errors, but this is from ocr text (the "full text" link). I cleaned it up as much as possible. This is not an ai translation. For those who love Schipa, it is worth reading his full interview, as he tells an interesting anecdote and also talks about the first "songs" he was allowed to sing.
https://archive.org/details/EtudeJuly1927
"That I am able to sing such a very great number of engagements, year after year, in opera and in concert, without any breakdown, I attribute very largely to the exhaustive drill of my maestro, Gerunda. When I first went to him, like all boys, I was wasting my voice by shouting. He taught me in the simplest and most natural manner possible, how to place my voice. Then he commenced a series of drills which lasted six and one-half years. Six and one-half years, with nothing but exercises!" He would not permit me under any circumstances to sing a song."
"... every day at every concert and every opera, I realize the enormous benefit that came from this exhaustive training from vocalises and vocal exercises. Sometimes, when my general physical condition is not good, I find that my early training keeps my vocal organs in such shape that I am able to go on with the concert.
“He gave me numerous exercises of his own. He gave me exercises and vocalises of Concone and Garcia. He gave me numerous scales, but he was most persistent upon a beautiful sustained tone, or, as they say in Italian, nota tenuta. In addition to this, I was obliged to practice with the very greatest perseverance, sustained notes, singing them crescendo and diminuendo. Gerunda would make me do this with agonizing care. That is, I would start, for instance, upon C upon the third space of the treble clef, the note becoming gradually fuller and fuller for three and one-half measures and then diminishing in value for another three and one-half measures, until it finally faded away. The importance of the crescendo and diminuendo controlled at the will of the singer is so enormous that I am amazed that more attention is not paid to it regularly. After all, through diminuendo and crescendo, one has one of the most significant elements in expression. How rarely does one hear a good crescendo and a good diminuendo on a sustained tone."
I am going to start by working on individual notes, then progress to scales, then arpegios, and then exercises. Someone actually sent me Garcia's exercises, which do exactly what Schipa was talking about in the interview! Originally, I was avoiding him, since i heard he added science into training, though he didn't dramatically change things. However, if Alceste Gerunda himself used his exercises with his students, I am not going to question that! Plus, this is exactly what Schipa was describing in the interview! It's also for the tenor range, so I feel truly comfortable singing it. Anyway, I was sent the first, but I am including the next two, before "advanced" is added to the titles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_O2kQz4TIA&list=PL-pA3D_qO_cADzuMne5tJyUv_s5wvTutS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzubQvwao60
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZOnhGlp4GI
When can I begin using Schipa's? He taught quite differently, apparently not mentioning single notes, breath, etc. How will I know once I am ready to progress to the next phase? Since I am studying harmony from Prout and must do this by ear (I am blind and cannot read braille music), can I incorporate things such as learning the names of the notes (including changes in different keys and directions of scales) as I do my vocal exercises?
The Reddit links for the above discussions can be found here.
https://www.reddit.com/r/opera/comments/1m3bi3i/update_on_singing_journey_and_research_on_schipa/
#AlcesteGerunda #BelCanto #exercises #Gerunda #opera #Schipa #singing #TitoSchipa #VocalPedagogy
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(Note. The bit about watching/listening and Tagliavini refers to a Reddit post in which I asked about four different versions of La Boheme that I have in my large list of opera links. Also, Schipa is still my favourite singer of all time. But Gigli is second, Tagliavini is third, and Battistini is fourth.)
"I just finished listening to La Boheme from 1938. I say "listening" because several people mentioned that I said "watching" in the post where I was trying to decide on a version. I am totally blind, so it's all listening for me, whether there is a video or not. But I'm accustomed to saying "watch" when referring to things that I find on Youtube, which is odd, as I usually download them as mp3s, but anyway. This is the full opera.youtube.com/watch?v=mE5vRfD7uC…
This is the libretto that I used.
opera-arias.com/puccini/la-boh…
The first act basically told the story of the characters themselves. The second made me laugh in several places. Marcello and (Musetta were quite funny, in general. Poor Alcindoro) kept trying to calm Musetta and was ultimately stuck with the bill, but that was clever. The third, of course, was more serious, and forshaddowed things to come. I'm glad the fourth act had some comedy in it, because the ending was heart-breaking. Even though I knew what would happen, it was played so well that it brought me to tears, and I had to calm down before writing this review! Even Schipa himself couldn't do that, and I have the last scene with him in it! Gigli was an absolute master of this role, and while complaining about his sobs in other instances may be justified, he used them expertly in this performance, and truly brought the character of Rodolfo to life. What really surprised me is how much I liked Licia Albanese. I am usually not a fan of high-pitched female voices, but for some reason, I liked her, and the chemistry between her and Gigli's characters could be felt. I am really glad that I chose this version and would highly recommend it to anyone."
"Since I mentioned being caught between Gigli and Tagliavini in my other post, here is Che Gelida Manina by both of them.
Gigli
youtube.com/watch?v=b5Ba_MSygG…Tagliavini
(I am providing two versions because he sings them quite differently. The first is extremely sweet and the second less so, but it still sounds like it's before the voice change. I have always loved his version, but I don't know how he would handle the rest, particularly the really dramatic parts.)
1
youtube.com/watch?v=ux1QuTbQsc…2
youtube.com/watch?v=2DdPoNsTRD…Now for Schipa.
youtube.com/watch?v=gqcuAAA_2m…
And this is the final scene that I mentioned in my review. Naturally, it is played well, as Schipa always sang everything beautifully. But Gigli added his own elements to it.
youtube.com/watch?v=IMTQ7gGyuw… "
Since I mentioned it, here is my large list of operas.
dandylover1.dreamwidth.org/242…
#BeniaminoGigli #FerruccioTagliavini #Gigli #LaBoheme #opera #Puccini #review #Tagliavini #TitoSchipa #Schipa
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(for opera lovers)How would you describe your favourite singer, particularly to someone who is unfamiliar with his work or who doesn't know much of it?
Every time I try to describe the voice and style of Tito Schipa, I find myself unable to do so adequately. This is not only because I might lack a few technical terms, but because I find it to be so perfect that words seem insufficient to convey its essence. It is unlike any other operatic voice I have ever heard. There is a quality to it that some have described as husky, but that I think gives it a well-rounded sound. It is sweet but not overly so. It can be assertive when necessary but never dark or overwhelming. His ornamentation is always just enough, never less or more than is required. Everything, including messa di voce and dynamics in general, breath control, portamento, legato, vibrato, etc. blends seemlessly. I don't yet know Italian, and somehow, I can feel every emotion in what he is singing, and when I read the English translation of the words, my feelings are justified. He can express the greatest joys and the deepest sorrows of the human heart, and the quiet moments in between. The clarity of his pronunciation is unparalleled, even in acoustic recordings. I can't describe his style technically, but I would know if someone were imitating it. On the negative side, some say that his top notes were thin, but I personally can't hear it. He did transpose various arias, particularly as he aged, and he stopped singing truly high notes in his forties or so, but I can't say I notice a diminishing in vocal quality until some time after 1955. In his concert that year, he sounds wonderful. But by 1962, I do notice some deterioration,and in 1964 (at seventy-five), it was pronounced, though he could still sing.