#gerunda — Public Fediverse posts
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(Note. I am not interested in modern theory or ideas. This is strictly about traditional bel canto. And just to get this out of the way, I am a contralto who is only interested in singing in the tenor range.)
Now that I know how to follow Alceste Gerunda's method, I am beginning with Garcia's exercises. However, the first ones I found on Youtube start with messa di voce.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B\_O2kQz4TIA
Schipa made it very clear that Gerunda focused heavily on this aspect of singing. But I asked Perplexity if, since these are my very first lessons, I should be doing this or not. Yes, I know it's ai. But this is why I am sharing the answer with you and asking if this is correct. It certainly does sound plausable. Note that I do have, if not perfect pitch, than something extremely close to it. I also pay very close attention to subtle details in recordings, so I am aware of what my own voice does. I am totally blind and cannot read braille music. At any rate, this is what Perplexity said. The first part of the answer refers to the exercise in the video.
"Duration of the Exercise
If you perform the sustained note exercise once through on each of the five vowels—repeating the full exercise sequence for “ah,” then “ee,” “eh,” “oh,” and “oo”—it could indeed take approximately twenty-five minutes, assuming each pass is five minutes long and you take minimal breaks. However, it is entirely reasonable to begin with just one or two vowels per session, especially as you are establishing your technique. Quality, ease, and concentration outweigh the mere length of the practice; there is no need to force all five vowels in a single session at the very beginning.
Is This Garcia’s “First Exercise”?
The sustained note (messa di voce) exercise is certainly one of the cornerstone practices in Manuel García II’s Treatise on the Art of Singing (originally “Traité complet de l’Art du Chant”) and is central to his vocal method. He places major emphasis upon the production of a sustained, even tone, gradually increasing and decreasing in intensity—essentially, the classic messa di voce. However, García’s treatise first addresses:
•
Physical preparation, posture, and the mechanics of breathing,
•
Simple emission of a clear tone,
•
And only then moves to messa di voce as the foundation for control and expressive development.
Though messa di voce is central and appears early in his method, García’s very first exercises are even more elemental: sustained straight tones on single vowels, without dynamic change, to establish clarity and freedom of production. The dynamic swell of true messa di voce is introduced shortly after, as skill and stability grow.
Should a Beginner Focus on Messa di Voce?
García himself—and the strictest Italian tradition—would ask absolute beginners to spend a period on:
•
Discovering where the voice is “placed,”
•
Cultivating a pure, unstressed sound on a single pitch and vowel,
•
Establishing breath support and freedom.
Only when these basics are secure does one progress to sustained notes with crescendo and diminuendo (the true messa di voce). Attempting dynamic shaping too early can lead to tension, shaky support, or bad habits if the vocal emission is not yet free and even.
Recommended Approach for Your First Lessons
•
Begin with sustained notes on a comfortable pitch and vowel (“ah” is preferred), simply holding a clear, free sound for several seconds at a soft–moderate volume.
•
Once this feels steady, introduce a gentle crescendo and diminuendo—but keep the motion small at first, avoiding strain or pushing.
•
Practise only as many repetitions as feel comfortable—at the outset, one or two vowels for fifteen minutes may suffice.
•
Alternate days: some days work only on pure, straight tone; others introduce a little dynamic shift.
Table: Progressive Approach
Lesson Stage
Activity
Duration
First week(s)
Simple sustained notes, 1-2 vowels
10–15 min
When stable/comfortable
Add gentle messa di voce, more vowels
15–25 min
Later phase
Full messa di voce on all vowels
25 min+"
Both Schipa and Perplexity mentioned voice placement. Can someone please explain this to me? When should I start Concone's and Schipa's exercises? When will I know that it's time to go to the next phase?
#AlcesteGerunda #BelCanto #ClassicalSinging #Concone #Garcia #Gerunda #ManuelGarcia #opera #learning #lessons #Schipa #TitoSchipa #singing
-
(Note. I am not interested in modern theory or ideas. This is strictly about traditional bel canto. And just to get this out of the way, I am a contralto who is only interested in singing in the tenor range.)
Now that I know how to follow Alceste Gerunda's method, I am beginning with Garcia's exercises. However, the first ones I found on Youtube start with messa di voce.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B\_O2kQz4TIA
Schipa made it very clear that Gerunda focused heavily on this aspect of singing. But I asked Perplexity if, since these are my very first lessons, I should be doing this or not. Yes, I know it's ai. But this is why I am sharing the answer with you and asking if this is correct. It certainly does sound plausable. Note that I do have, if not perfect pitch, than something extremely close to it. I also pay very close attention to subtle details in recordings, so I am aware of what my own voice does. I am totally blind and cannot read braille music. At any rate, this is what Perplexity said. The first part of the answer refers to the exercise in the video.
"Duration of the Exercise
If you perform the sustained note exercise once through on each of the five vowels—repeating the full exercise sequence for “ah,” then “ee,” “eh,” “oh,” and “oo”—it could indeed take approximately twenty-five minutes, assuming each pass is five minutes long and you take minimal breaks. However, it is entirely reasonable to begin with just one or two vowels per session, especially as you are establishing your technique. Quality, ease, and concentration outweigh the mere length of the practice; there is no need to force all five vowels in a single session at the very beginning.
Is This Garcia’s “First Exercise”?
The sustained note (messa di voce) exercise is certainly one of the cornerstone practices in Manuel García II’s Treatise on the Art of Singing (originally “Traité complet de l’Art du Chant”) and is central to his vocal method. He places major emphasis upon the production of a sustained, even tone, gradually increasing and decreasing in intensity—essentially, the classic messa di voce. However, García’s treatise first addresses:
•
Physical preparation, posture, and the mechanics of breathing,
•
Simple emission of a clear tone,
•
And only then moves to messa di voce as the foundation for control and expressive development.
Though messa di voce is central and appears early in his method, García’s very first exercises are even more elemental: sustained straight tones on single vowels, without dynamic change, to establish clarity and freedom of production. The dynamic swell of true messa di voce is introduced shortly after, as skill and stability grow.
Should a Beginner Focus on Messa di Voce?
García himself—and the strictest Italian tradition—would ask absolute beginners to spend a period on:
•
Discovering where the voice is “placed,”
•
Cultivating a pure, unstressed sound on a single pitch and vowel,
•
Establishing breath support and freedom.
Only when these basics are secure does one progress to sustained notes with crescendo and diminuendo (the true messa di voce). Attempting dynamic shaping too early can lead to tension, shaky support, or bad habits if the vocal emission is not yet free and even.
Recommended Approach for Your First Lessons
•
Begin with sustained notes on a comfortable pitch and vowel (“ah” is preferred), simply holding a clear, free sound for several seconds at a soft–moderate volume.
•
Once this feels steady, introduce a gentle crescendo and diminuendo—but keep the motion small at first, avoiding strain or pushing.
•
Practise only as many repetitions as feel comfortable—at the outset, one or two vowels for fifteen minutes may suffice.
•
Alternate days: some days work only on pure, straight tone; others introduce a little dynamic shift.
Table: Progressive Approach
Lesson Stage
Activity
Duration
First week(s)
Simple sustained notes, 1-2 vowels
10–15 min
When stable/comfortable
Add gentle messa di voce, more vowels
15–25 min
Later phase
Full messa di voce on all vowels
25 min+"
Both Schipa and Perplexity mentioned voice placement. Can someone please explain this to me? When should I start Concone's and Schipa's exercises? When will I know that it's time to go to the next phase?
#AlcesteGerunda #BelCanto #ClassicalSinging #Concone #Garcia #Gerunda #ManuelGarcia #opera #learning #lessons #Schipa #TitoSchipa #singing
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Some time ago, I wrote regarding my journey tracing the pedagogical lineage of Tito Schipa, Alceste Gerunda, and Saverio Mercadante, with special emphasis on the first two. Well, I found what I was seeking quite by accident tonight! There is a lot here, so I am only quoting the relevant parts. Please excuse the errors, but this is from ocr text (the "full text" link). I cleaned it up as much as possible. This is not an ai translation. For those who love Schipa, it is worth reading his full interview, as he tells an interesting anecdote and also talks about the first "songs" he was allowed to sing.
https://archive.org/details/EtudeJuly1927
"That I am able to sing such a very great number of engagements, year after year, in opera and in concert, without any breakdown, I attribute very largely to the exhaustive drill of my maestro, Gerunda. When I first went to him, like all boys, I was wasting my voice by shouting. He taught me in the simplest and most natural manner possible, how to place my voice. Then he commenced a series of drills which lasted six and one-half years. Six and one-half years, with nothing but exercises!" He would not permit me under any circumstances to sing a song."
"... every day at every concert and every opera, I realize the enormous benefit that came from this exhaustive training from vocalises and vocal exercises. Sometimes, when my general physical condition is not good, I find that my early training keeps my vocal organs in such shape that I am able to go on with the concert.
“He gave me numerous exercises of his own. He gave me exercises and vocalises of Concone and Garcia. He gave me numerous scales, but he was most persistent upon a beautiful sustained tone, or, as they say in Italian, nota tenuta. In addition to this, I was obliged to practice with the very greatest perseverance, sustained notes, singing them crescendo and diminuendo. Gerunda would make me do this with agonizing care. That is, I would start, for instance, upon C upon the third space of the treble clef, the note becoming gradually fuller and fuller for three and one-half measures and then diminishing in value for another three and one-half measures, until it finally faded away. The importance of the crescendo and diminuendo controlled at the will of the singer is so enormous that I am amazed that more attention is not paid to it regularly. After all, through diminuendo and crescendo, one has one of the most significant elements in expression. How rarely does one hear a good crescendo and a good diminuendo on a sustained tone."
I am going to start by working on individual notes, then progress to scales, then arpegios, and then exercises. Someone actually sent me Garcia's exercises, which do exactly what Schipa was talking about in the interview! Originally, I was avoiding him, since i heard he added science into training, though he didn't dramatically change things. However, if Alceste Gerunda himself used his exercises with his students, I am not going to question that! Plus, this is exactly what Schipa was describing in the interview! It's also for the tenor range, so I feel truly comfortable singing it. Anyway, I was sent the first, but I am including the next two, before "advanced" is added to the titles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_O2kQz4TIA&list=PL-pA3D_qO_cADzuMne5tJyUv_s5wvTutS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzubQvwao60
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZOnhGlp4GI
When can I begin using Schipa's? He taught quite differently, apparently not mentioning single notes, breath, etc. How will I know once I am ready to progress to the next phase? Since I am studying harmony from Prout and must do this by ear (I am blind and cannot read braille music), can I incorporate things such as learning the names of the notes (including changes in different keys and directions of scales) as I do my vocal exercises?
The Reddit links for the above discussions can be found here.
https://www.reddit.com/r/opera/comments/1m3bi3i/update_on_singing_journey_and_research_on_schipa/
#AlcesteGerunda #BelCanto #exercises #Gerunda #opera #Schipa #singing #TitoSchipa #VocalPedagogy
-
Some time ago, I wrote regarding my journey tracing the pedagogical lineage of Tito Schipa, Alceste Gerunda, and Saverio Mercadante, with special emphasis on the first two. Well, I found what I was seeking quite by accident tonight! There is a lot here, so I am only quoting the relevant parts. Please excuse the errors, but this is from ocr text (the "full text" link). I cleaned it up as much as possible. This is not an ai translation. For those who love Schipa, it is worth reading his full interview, as he tells an interesting anecdote and also talks about the first "songs" he was allowed to sing.
https://archive.org/details/EtudeJuly1927
"That I am able to sing such a very great number of engagements, year after year, in opera and in concert, without any breakdown, I attribute very largely to the exhaustive drill of my maestro, Gerunda. When I first went to him, like all boys, I was wasting my voice by shouting. He taught me in the simplest and most natural manner possible, how to place my voice. Then he commenced a series of drills which lasted six and one-half years. Six and one-half years, with nothing but exercises!" He would not permit me under any circumstances to sing a song."
"... every day at every concert and every opera, I realize the enormous benefit that came from this exhaustive training from vocalises and vocal exercises. Sometimes, when my general physical condition is not good, I find that my early training keeps my vocal organs in such shape that I am able to go on with the concert.
“He gave me numerous exercises of his own. He gave me exercises and vocalises of Concone and Garcia. He gave me numerous scales, but he was most persistent upon a beautiful sustained tone, or, as they say in Italian, nota tenuta. In addition to this, I was obliged to practice with the very greatest perseverance, sustained notes, singing them crescendo and diminuendo. Gerunda would make me do this with agonizing care. That is, I would start, for instance, upon C upon the third space of the treble clef, the note becoming gradually fuller and fuller for three and one-half measures and then diminishing in value for another three and one-half measures, until it finally faded away. The importance of the crescendo and diminuendo controlled at the will of the singer is so enormous that I am amazed that more attention is not paid to it regularly. After all, through diminuendo and crescendo, one has one of the most significant elements in expression. How rarely does one hear a good crescendo and a good diminuendo on a sustained tone."
I am going to start by working on individual notes, then progress to scales, then arpegios, and then exercises. Someone actually sent me Garcia's exercises, which do exactly what Schipa was talking about in the interview! Originally, I was avoiding him, since i heard he added science into training, though he didn't dramatically change things. However, if Alceste Gerunda himself used his exercises with his students, I am not going to question that! Plus, this is exactly what Schipa was describing in the interview! It's also for the tenor range, so I feel truly comfortable singing it. Anyway, I was sent the first, but I am including the next two, before "advanced" is added to the titles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_O2kQz4TIA&list=PL-pA3D_qO_cADzuMne5tJyUv_s5wvTutS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzubQvwao60
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZOnhGlp4GI
When can I begin using Schipa's? He taught quite differently, apparently not mentioning single notes, breath, etc. How will I know once I am ready to progress to the next phase? Since I am studying harmony from Prout and must do this by ear (I am blind and cannot read braille music), can I incorporate things such as learning the names of the notes (including changes in different keys and directions of scales) as I do my vocal exercises?
The Reddit links for the above discussions can be found here.
https://www.reddit.com/r/opera/comments/1m3bi3i/update_on_singing_journey_and_research_on_schipa/
#AlcesteGerunda #BelCanto #exercises #Gerunda #opera #Schipa #singing #TitoSchipa #VocalPedagogy