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#structuralediting — Public Fediverse posts

Live and recent posts from across the Fediverse tagged #structuralediting, aggregated by home.social.

  1. and finally, this is very much a kakoune thing, but i don't think selection and navigation should be different things. and more so when im working with blocks of syntax. i'm not working with characters, no do i think in characters. i think in expressions or statements or identifiers or literals.

    this is very much a personal opinion, but there's so much room for improvement in this field, i don't see how we've been more or less stagnant for so long. i don't want to use a lisp just so i can use paredit. i want paredit in every language i use.

    and doubly finally, you're welcome for me hashtagging every single post in this thread/rant entirely differently. if you're following any of them, you get randomly exposed to some subsection of my thread, without any of the previous parts.

    #kakoune #helixeditor #structuralediting #textediting

  2. and finally, this is very much a kakoune thing, but i don't think selection and navigation should be different things. and more so when im working with blocks of syntax. i'm not working with characters, no do i think in characters. i think in expressions or statements or identifiers or literals.

    this is very much a personal opinion, but there's so much room for improvement in this field, i don't see how we've been more or less stagnant for so long. i don't want to use a lisp just so i can use paredit. i want paredit in every language i use.

    and doubly finally, you're welcome for me hashtagging every single post in this thread/rant entirely differently. if you're following any of them, you get randomly exposed to some subsection of my thread, without any of the previous parts.

    #kakoune #helixeditor #structuralediting #textediting

  3. and finally, this is very much a kakoune thing, but i don't think selection and navigation should be different things. and more so when im working with blocks of syntax. i'm not working with characters, no do i think in characters. i think in expressions or statements or identifiers or literals.

    this is very much a personal opinion, but there's so much room for improvement in this field, i don't see how we've been more or less stagnant for so long. i don't want to use a lisp just so i can use paredit. i want paredit in every language i use.

    and doubly finally, you're welcome for me hashtagging every single post in this thread/rant entirely differently. if you're following any of them, you get randomly exposed to some subsection of my thread, without any of the previous parts.

    #kakoune #helixeditor #structuralediting #textediting

  4. and finally, this is very much a kakoune thing, but i don't think selection and navigation should be different things. and more so when im working with blocks of syntax. i'm not working with characters, no do i think in characters. i think in expressions or statements or identifiers or literals.

    this is very much a personal opinion, but there's so much room for improvement in this field, i don't see how we've been more or less stagnant for so long. i don't want to use a lisp just so i can use paredit. i want paredit in every language i use.

    and doubly finally, you're welcome for me hashtagging every single post in this thread/rant entirely differently. if you're following any of them, you get randomly exposed to some subsection of my thread, without any of the previous parts.

    #kakoune #helixeditor #structuralediting #textediting

  5. and finally, this is very much a kakoune thing, but i don't think selection and navigation should be different things. and more so when im working with blocks of syntax. i'm not working with characters, no do i think in characters. i think in expressions or statements or identifiers or literals.

    this is very much a personal opinion, but there's so much room for improvement in this field, i don't see how we've been more or less stagnant for so long. i don't want to use a lisp just so i can use paredit. i want paredit in every language i use.

    and doubly finally, you're welcome for me hashtagging every single post in this thread/rant entirely differently. if you're following any of them, you get randomly exposed to some subsection of my thread, without any of the previous parts.

    #kakoune #helixeditor #structuralediting #textediting

  6. and most of these modern text editors have the parse trees, for syntax highlighting. treesitter supports how many languages, now?

    why dont they leverage the already existing infrastructure? no extra dependencies to be added or anything. just use what you already bring in, but better.

    theres already selection that leverages treesitter in most editors. im not sure of neovim, but in helix it's built-in with alt-o, and in emacs you can use the expreg package (i think that's what it's called). but why is that all we have? and it's in addition to the existing selection, not in-place of it. why don't we have similar things for the other editing ui, like navigation, deletion, copy, cut, etc.

    i think i know, and i believe it's because selection is the only thing that's been way too painful with traditional line based or word based selection. it's imprecise, cumbersome, and just overall painful. but everything else, it's just okay enough that people are fine with it.

    #treesitter #structuralediting

  7. and most of these modern text editors have the parse trees, for syntax highlighting. treesitter supports how many languages, now?

    why dont they leverage the already existing infrastructure? no extra dependencies to be added or anything. just use what you already bring in, but better.

    theres already selection that leverages treesitter in most editors. im not sure of neovim, but in helix it's built-in with alt-o, and in emacs you can use the expreg package (i think that's what it's called). but why is that all we have? and it's in addition to the existing selection, not in-place of it. why don't we have similar things for the other editing ui, like navigation, deletion, copy, cut, etc.

    i think i know, and i believe it's because selection is the only thing that's been way too painful with traditional line based or word based selection. it's imprecise, cumbersome, and just overall painful. but everything else, it's just okay enough that people are fine with it.

    #treesitter #structuralediting

  8. and most of these modern text editors have the parse trees, for syntax highlighting. treesitter supports how many languages, now?

    why dont they leverage the already existing infrastructure? no extra dependencies to be added or anything. just use what you already bring in, but better.

    theres already selection that leverages treesitter in most editors. im not sure of neovim, but in helix it's built-in with alt-o, and in emacs you can use the expreg package (i think that's what it's called). but why is that all we have? and it's in addition to the existing selection, not in-place of it. why don't we have similar things for the other editing ui, like navigation, deletion, copy, cut, etc.

    i think i know, and i believe it's because selection is the only thing that's been way too painful with traditional line based or word based selection. it's imprecise, cumbersome, and just overall painful. but everything else, it's just okay enough that people are fine with it.

    #treesitter #structuralediting

  9. and most of these modern text editors have the parse trees, for syntax highlighting. treesitter supports how many languages, now?

    why dont they leverage the already existing infrastructure? no extra dependencies to be added or anything. just use what you already bring in, but better.

    theres already selection that leverages treesitter in most editors. im not sure of neovim, but in helix it's built-in with alt-o, and in emacs you can use the expreg package (i think that's what it's called). but why is that all we have? and it's in addition to the existing selection, not in-place of it. why don't we have similar things for the other editing ui, like navigation, deletion, copy, cut, etc.

    i think i know, and i believe it's because selection is the only thing that's been way too painful with traditional line based or word based selection. it's imprecise, cumbersome, and just overall painful. but everything else, it's just okay enough that people are fine with it.

    #treesitter #structuralediting

  10. and most of these modern text editors have the parse trees, for syntax highlighting. treesitter supports how many languages, now?

    why dont they leverage the already existing infrastructure? no extra dependencies to be added or anything. just use what you already bring in, but better.

    theres already selection that leverages treesitter in most editors. im not sure of neovim, but in helix it's built-in with alt-o, and in emacs you can use the expreg package (i think that's what it's called). but why is that all we have? and it's in addition to the existing selection, not in-place of it. why don't we have similar things for the other editing ui, like navigation, deletion, copy, cut, etc.

    i think i know, and i believe it's because selection is the only thing that's been way too painful with traditional line based or word based selection. it's imprecise, cumbersome, and just overall painful. but everything else, it's just okay enough that people are fine with it.

    #treesitter #structuralediting

  11. I peeked into the rabbit hole of structure editors the other day (particularly Fructure (Racket) and Eyg (its own lang)), and considered how it would be cool if we could bring it to the terminal with Tree-Sitter. I began to envision building my own editor that would:

    • Support Vim motions,
    • Maybe even improve upon it in some areas such as incorporating ideas from Kakoune,
    • Support Tree-Sitter for some IDE-like features, built-in,
    • Support syntax-aware text selection/manipulation in a similar manner of what can be done in structure editors, powered by Tree-Sitter,
    • Perhaps be extensible using a Lisp, and
    • Be written in something that's a little more enjoyble than C

    Then it hit me, that's just Helix!

    #structuralediting #treesitter #HelixEditor

  12. I peeked into the rabbit hole of structure editors the other day (particularly Fructure (Racket) and Eyg (its own lang)), and considered how it would be cool if we could bring it to the terminal with Tree-Sitter. I began to envision building my own editor that would:

    • Support Vim motions,
    • Maybe even improve upon it in some areas such as incorporating ideas from Kakoune,
    • Support Tree-Sitter for some IDE-like features, built-in,
    • Support syntax-aware text selection/manipulation in a similar manner of what can be done in structure editors, powered by Tree-Sitter,
    • Perhaps be extensible using a Lisp, and
    • Be written in something that's a little more enjoyble than C

    Then it hit me, that's just Helix!

    #structuralediting #treesitter #HelixEditor

  13. Forest: Structural Code Editing with Multiple Cursors:

    arxiv.org/abs/2210.11124

    "In this work, we present Forest, a structural code editor that aims to bridge the gap between the interactiveness of code editors and the expressiveness of refactoring scripts."

    Better than every #AI out there, if you ask me.

    Also, #Forest is a very suitable name for this. 🌲

    #CodeEditor #DevTools #Refactoring #StructuralEditing #AST #Parser

  14. Forest: Structural Code Editing with Multiple Cursors:

    arxiv.org/abs/2210.11124

    "In this work, we present Forest, a structural code editor that aims to bridge the gap between the interactiveness of code editors and the expressiveness of refactoring scripts."

    Better than every #AI out there, if you ask me.

    Also, #Forest is a very suitable name for this. 🌲

    #CodeEditor #DevTools #Refactoring #StructuralEditing #AST #Parser

  15. Forest: Structural Code Editing with Multiple Cursors:

    arxiv.org/abs/2210.11124

    "In this work, we present Forest, a structural code editor that aims to bridge the gap between the interactiveness of code editors and the expressiveness of refactoring scripts."

    Better than every #AI out there, if you ask me.

    Also, #Forest is a very suitable name for this. 🌲

    #CodeEditor #DevTools #Refactoring #StructuralEditing #AST #Parser

  16. Forest: Structural Code Editing with Multiple Cursors:

    arxiv.org/abs/2210.11124

    "In this work, we present Forest, a structural code editor that aims to bridge the gap between the interactiveness of code editors and the expressiveness of refactoring scripts."

    Better than every #AI out there, if you ask me.

    Also, #Forest is a very suitable name for this. 🌲

    #CodeEditor #DevTools #Refactoring #StructuralEditing #AST #Parser

  17. Forest: Structural Code Editing with Multiple Cursors:

    arxiv.org/abs/2210.11124

    "In this work, we present Forest, a structural code editor that aims to bridge the gap between the interactiveness of code editors and the expressiveness of refactoring scripts."

    Better than every #AI out there, if you ask me.

    Also, #Forest is a very suitable name for this. 🌲

    #CodeEditor #DevTools #Refactoring #StructuralEditing #AST #Parser

  18. I wonder if in the large (modules, packages, etc.) and text in the small (function definitions, values) is an interesting design space.

    It seems very difficult to have strong ergonomics for full structural editing but using it for large codebase management might be the strongest entry point.

  19. I wonder if #StructuredEditors in the large (modules, packages, etc.) and text in the small (function definitions, values) is an interesting design space.

    It seems very difficult to have strong ergonomics for full structural editing but using it for large codebase management might be the strongest entry point.

    #ProgrammingLanguages #StructuralEditing #IDE

  20. I wonder if #StructuredEditors in the large (modules, packages, etc.) and text in the small (function definitions, values) is an interesting design space.

    It seems very difficult to have strong ergonomics for full structural editing but using it for large codebase management might be the strongest entry point.

    #ProgrammingLanguages #StructuralEditing #IDE

  21. I wonder if #StructuredEditors in the large (modules, packages, etc.) and text in the small (function definitions, values) is an interesting design space.

    It seems very difficult to have strong ergonomics for full structural editing but using it for large codebase management might be the strongest entry point.

    #ProgrammingLanguages #StructuralEditing #IDE

  22. I wonder if #StructuredEditors in the large (modules, packages, etc.) and text in the small (function definitions, values) is an interesting design space.

    It seems very difficult to have strong ergonomics for full structural editing but using it for large codebase management might be the strongest entry point.

    #ProgrammingLanguages #StructuralEditing #IDE

  23. A short tour around the scene of #StructuralEditing (inspired by the recent announcement of project-mage.org) - from my perspective, so I shall begin with the projects that resonate with me most strongly.

    So, the number 1 is @leif 's work on "Interactive Visual Syntax", as explained here:

    youtube.com/watch?v=8htgAxJuK5

    (Leif also implemented this idea in the visr.pl online IDE)

    Number 2 is @vez 's Polytope editor for JavaScript:

    youtube.com/watch?v=8g_XCZSY7l

    I was also hugely impressed with @disconcision 's Fructure, which - except just being a beautiful user experience also is a beautiful implementation:

    youtube.com/watch?v=CnbVCNIh1N

    Andy has since moved to other places, contributing to Cyrus Omar's hazel.org and David Moon's tylr.fun

    Not long after releasing my first prototype of GRASP, I ran into Yasuyuki Maeda (who's Japanese, but happened to be touring around Europe at that time), who did this really amazing front-end for Clojure:

    youtube.com/watch?v=RuU0HI-pai

    Within the same space, there's Ella Hoeppner's Vlojure for ClojureScript:

    youtube.com/watch?v=1OcAUhe3E1

    Katie Bell did a sort of similar work for Python that can be found at splootcode.io

    @o_kryvonos living in Ukraine under russian fire managed to deliver Lisperanto:
    youtube.com/watch?v=QNyuMK8ZrH

    Among Ukrainian hackers, there's also Ivan Daniluk, who has some very interesting thoughts concerning "visual programming": youtube.com/watch?v=Ps3mBPcjyS

    And of course there's @jonathoda who - in addition to doing crazy experiments with his SubText (e.g. vimeo.com/451278506) has been doing wonderful stuff in bringing the community together with various workshops and other social initiatives.

    Also, a lot of cool ideas can be found on "Emil's Programming Viz" vlog:

    youtube.com/@emilsprogrammingv

    When it comes to visual thinking about computation, the ideas of @spiralganglion on the Hest programming environment are really outstanding, as is his conduction of the "Future of Coding" podcast (and taking @jimmyhmiller on board was certainly a great idea).

    Yair Chuchem (and others) also did impressive work with the Lambdu programming environment, and Yair himself created this wonderful list of "awesome structure editors":
    github.com/yairchu/awesome-str

    If you feel that this list is incomplete or that your project (or some other important project) is missing from here, it's perhaps also because 2500 characters on this mastodon instance aren't all that much, but of course feel free to add replies to this toot.

  24. A short tour around the scene of #StructuralEditing (inspired by the recent announcement of project-mage.org) - from my perspective, so I shall begin with the projects that resonate with me most strongly.

    So, the number 1 is @leif 's work on "Interactive Visual Syntax", as explained here:

    youtube.com/watch?v=8htgAxJuK5

    (Leif also implemented this idea in the visr.pl online IDE)

    Number 2 is @vez 's Polytope editor for JavaScript:

    youtube.com/watch?v=8g_XCZSY7l

    I was also hugely impressed with @disconcision 's Fructure, which - except just being a beautiful user experience also is a beautiful implementation:

    youtube.com/watch?v=CnbVCNIh1N

    Andy has since moved to other places, contributing to Cyrus Omar's hazel.org and David Moon's tylr.fun

    Not long after releasing my first prototype of GRASP, I ran into Yasuyuki Maeda (who's Japanese, but happened to be touring around Europe at that time), who did this really amazing front-end for Clojure:

    youtube.com/watch?v=RuU0HI-pai

    Within the same space, there's Ella Hoeppner's Vlojure for ClojureScript:

    youtube.com/watch?v=1OcAUhe3E1

    Katie Bell did a sort of similar work for Python that can be found at splootcode.io

    @o_kryvonos living in Ukraine under russian fire managed to deliver Lisperanto:
    youtube.com/watch?v=QNyuMK8ZrH

    Among Ukrainian hackers, there's also Ivan Daniluk, who has some very interesting thoughts concerning "visual programming": youtube.com/watch?v=Ps3mBPcjyS

    And of course there's @jonathoda who - in addition to doing crazy experiments with his SubText (e.g. vimeo.com/451278506) has been doing wonderful stuff in bringing the community together with various workshops and other social initiatives.

    Also, a lot of cool ideas can be found on "Emil's Programming Viz" vlog:

    youtube.com/@emilsprogrammingv

    When it comes to visual thinking about computation, the ideas of @spiralganglion on the Hest programming environment are really outstanding, as is his conduction of the "Future of Coding" podcast (and taking @jimmyhmiller on board was certainly a great idea).

    Yair Chuchem (and others) also did impressive work with the Lambdu programming environment, and Yair himself created this wonderful list of "awesome structure editors":
    github.com/yairchu/awesome-str

    If you feel that this list is incomplete or that your project (or some other important project) is missing from here, it's perhaps also because 2500 characters on this mastodon instance aren't all that much, but of course feel free to add replies to this toot.

  25. A short tour around the scene of #StructuralEditing (inspired by the recent announcement of project-mage.org) - from my perspective, so I shall begin with the projects that resonate with me most strongly.

    So, the number 1 is @leif 's work on "Interactive Visual Syntax", as explained here:

    youtube.com/watch?v=8htgAxJuK5

    (Leif also implemented this idea in the visr.pl online IDE)

    Number 2 is @vez 's Polytope editor for JavaScript:

    youtube.com/watch?v=8g_XCZSY7l

    I was also hugely impressed with @disconcision 's Fructure, which - except just being a beautiful user experience also is a beautiful implementation:

    youtube.com/watch?v=CnbVCNIh1N

    Andy has since moved to other places, contributing to Cyrus Omar's hazel.org and David Moon's tylr.fun

    Not long after releasing my first prototype of GRASP, I ran into Yasuyuki Maeda (who's Japanese, but happened to be touring around Europe at that time), who did this really amazing front-end for Clojure:

    youtube.com/watch?v=RuU0HI-pai

    Within the same space, there's Ella Hoeppner's Vlojure for ClojureScript:

    youtube.com/watch?v=1OcAUhe3E1

    Katie Bell did a sort of similar work for Python that can be found at splootcode.io

    @o_kryvonos living in Ukraine under russian fire managed to deliver Lisperanto:
    youtube.com/watch?v=QNyuMK8ZrH

    Among Ukrainian hackers, there's also Ivan Daniluk, who has some very interesting thoughts concerning "visual programming": youtube.com/watch?v=Ps3mBPcjyS

    And of course there's @jonathoda who - in addition to doing crazy experiments with his SubText (e.g. vimeo.com/451278506) has been doing wonderful stuff in bringing the community together with various workshops and other social initiatives.

    Also, a lot of cool ideas can be found on "Emil's Programming Viz" vlog:

    youtube.com/@emilsprogrammingv

    When it comes to visual thinking about computation, the ideas of @spiralganglion on the Hest programming environment are really outstanding, as is his conduction of the "Future of Coding" podcast (and taking @jimmyhmiller on board was certainly a great idea).

    Yair Chuchem (and others) also did impressive work with the Lambdu programming environment, and Yair himself created this wonderful list of "awesome structure editors":
    github.com/yairchu/awesome-str

    If you feel that this list is incomplete or that your project (or some other important project) is missing from here, it's perhaps also because 2500 characters on this mastodon instance aren't all that much, but of course feel free to add replies to this toot.

  26. A short tour around the scene of #StructuralEditing (inspired by the recent announcement of project-mage.org) - from my perspective, so I shall begin with the projects that resonate with me most strongly.

    So, the number 1 is @leif 's work on "Interactive Visual Syntax", as explained here:

    youtube.com/watch?v=8htgAxJuK5

    (Leif also implemented this idea in the visr.pl online IDE)

    Number 2 is @vez 's Polytope editor for JavaScript:

    youtube.com/watch?v=8g_XCZSY7l

    I was also hugely impressed with @disconcision 's Fructure, which - except just being a beautiful user experience also is a beautiful implementation:

    youtube.com/watch?v=CnbVCNIh1N

    Andy has since moved to other places, contributing to Cyrus Omar's hazel.org and David Moon's tylr.fun

    Not long after releasing my first prototype of GRASP, I ran into Yasuyuki Maeda (who's Japanese, but happened to be touring around Europe at that time), who did this really amazing front-end for Clojure:

    youtube.com/watch?v=RuU0HI-pai

    Within the same space, there's Ella Hoeppner's Vlojure for ClojureScript:

    youtube.com/watch?v=1OcAUhe3E1

    Katie Bell did a sort of similar work for Python that can be found at splootcode.io

    @o_kryvonos living in Ukraine under russian fire managed to deliver Lisperanto:
    youtube.com/watch?v=QNyuMK8ZrH

    Among Ukrainian hackers, there's also Ivan Daniluk, who has some very interesting thoughts concerning "visual programming": youtube.com/watch?v=Ps3mBPcjyS

    And of course there's @jonathoda who - in addition to doing crazy experiments with his SubText (e.g. vimeo.com/451278506) has been doing wonderful stuff in bringing the community together with various workshops and other social initiatives.

    Also, a lot of cool ideas can be found on "Emil's Programming Viz" vlog:

    youtube.com/@emilsprogrammingv

    When it comes to visual thinking about computation, the ideas of @spiralganglion on the Hest programming environment are really outstanding, as is his conduction of the "Future of Coding" podcast (and taking @jimmyhmiller on board was certainly a great idea).

    Yair Chuchem (and others) also did impressive work with the Lambdu programming environment, and Yair himself created this wonderful list of "awesome structure editors":
    github.com/yairchu/awesome-str

    If you feel that this list is incomplete or that your project (or some other important project) is missing from here, it's perhaps also because 2500 characters on this mastodon instance aren't all that much, but of course feel free to add replies to this toot.

  27. A short tour around the scene of #StructuralEditing (inspired by the recent announcement of project-mage.org) - from my perspective, so I shall begin with the projects that resonate with me most strongly.

    So, the number 1 is @leif 's work on "Interactive Visual Syntax", as explained here:

    youtube.com/watch?v=8htgAxJuK5

    (Leif also implemented this idea in the visr.pl online IDE)

    Number 2 is @vez 's Polytope editor for JavaScript:

    youtube.com/watch?v=8g_XCZSY7l

    I was also hugely impressed with @disconcision 's Fructure, which - except just being a beautiful user experience also is a beautiful implementation:

    youtube.com/watch?v=CnbVCNIh1N

    Andy has since moved to other places, contributing to Cyrus Omar's hazel.org and David Moon's tylr.fun

    Not long after releasing my first prototype of GRASP, I ran into Yasuyuki Maeda (who's Japanese, but happened to be touring around Europe at that time), who did this really amazing front-end for Clojure:

    youtube.com/watch?v=RuU0HI-pai

    Within the same space, there's Ella Hoeppner's Vlojure for ClojureScript:

    youtube.com/watch?v=1OcAUhe3E1

    Katie Bell did a sort of similar work for Python that can be found at splootcode.io

    @o_kryvonos living in Ukraine under russian fire managed to deliver Lisperanto:
    youtube.com/watch?v=QNyuMK8ZrH

    Among Ukrainian hackers, there's also Ivan Daniluk, who has some very interesting thoughts concerning "visual programming": youtube.com/watch?v=Ps3mBPcjyS

    And of course there's @jonathoda who - in addition to doing crazy experiments with his SubText (e.g. vimeo.com/451278506) has been doing wonderful stuff in bringing the community together with various workshops and other social initiatives.

    Also, a lot of cool ideas can be found on "Emil's Programming Viz" vlog:

    youtube.com/@emilsprogrammingv

    When it comes to visual thinking about computation, the ideas of @spiralganglion on the Hest programming environment are really outstanding, as is his conduction of the "Future of Coding" podcast (and taking @jimmyhmiller on board was certainly a great idea).

    Yair Chuchem (and others) also did impressive work with the Lambdu programming environment, and Yair himself created this wonderful list of "awesome structure editors":
    github.com/yairchu/awesome-str

    If you feel that this list is incomplete or that your project (or some other important project) is missing from here, it's perhaps also because 2500 characters on this mastodon instance aren't all that much, but of course feel free to add replies to this toot.