#neitherhaveiwings — Public Fediverse posts
Live and recent posts from across the Fediverse tagged #neitherhaveiwings, aggregated by home.social.
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And in the end, he doesn't get to have the relationship he wants. And Evvie also is homophobic, which feels kind of internalized too, which is never examined either by her or the novel itself and "resolved" by her becoming a nun.
I get that it was a different time, and people had different attitudes, but Degan chose to set her story in that time, to tell this particular story. And I question that choice.
(5/n, n=5)
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Maybe that's a deep commentary about the world - there's petty evil as much as there's the big thing. It still falls a bit flat, and feels like a weird message to give against a WWII, thus big time evil happening, backdrop.
But I found the way the story deals with homosexuality even more problematic. Charlie feels a lot of self-hate for being gay and seems to only be able to be with Hal because it's somehow okay if an angel does it.
(4/n)
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At the heart of it are two relationships: the friendship between Evvie and the other girl, and the gay romance between Charlie and Hal, an angel he has rescued. There's nice dialogue, there are nice details, I love Evvie and her friend as characters and who love to ship them even more.
But the mystery feels like it could be a conspiracy at the beginning and then just... isn't. The Goods feel like they're up to something big and then just... aren't.
(3/n)
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The tract-wielding Good siblings, Kit Underhill's former acolyte Charlie Boult (now in the airforce), a young woman who's lost a leg in a plane crash, and Evvie, who'd wanted to become an Orthodox nun but was pulled out of Greece by her parents when the war started.
Sounds like a comedy, or crime fiction, right?
But despite there being a murder, and a mystery to solve, it very much isn't, because both involve summoned demons and injured angels.
(2/n)
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So. Alice Degan's "Neither Have I Wings", Spin-off of "From All False Doctrine", a spoilery review.
Set in England during WWII in a country estate-turned-hospital for amputees with an airbase nearby, we meet a diverse cast of characters: gay soldier Latham, his fiancée Rosalind (prone to saying very inappropriate things), her beautiful and cynical cousin Daphne and her lover and family friend Ernest, his shady friend Leo.
(1/n)
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CW: mild spoilers "Neither Have I Wings"
So. That was that. And Evgenia safely on the way to her convent.
I'm still conflicted about that. In her last vision, she's kind of hateful towards gays, describing homosexuality and murder with similar terms. And possessed Daphne, who can see people's secrets, seemed to think she was gay as well - plus there's the obvious chemistry with Sara.
It's not a good time: but it feels like she should examine that.
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Breaking an evil spell by combined aeronautical engineering, liturgical vestments, and embroidery nerdery! 😍
(Nerds FTW!)
(But why is a priest the wrong metaphor and a deacon better? @irina, help?)
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I really like this idea of there being mediocre, not-top-notch, and even shitty angels. I have no idea how that works, theologically speaking, but I like it.
It reminds me of "Good Omens 2" as well: is Aziraphaele a top-notch angel? Maybe not, eh. And others are so low-tier they can't really do much. And the demons are not all up to the task either.
(Did somebody whisper "crossover fic"?)
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Oh, neat plot twist! I kind of like it, although I'd liked a grander scope than it all just being "they fucked around and, predictably, it went wrong". And I could do with that last "mistaken identity" twist, these feel too "comedy of errors" to me.
(I dislike comedies of errors; they just feel weird. Something something theory of mind, I guess.)
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CW: Major spoiler "Neither Have I Wings"
"Not because you might be a devil—Christ, that’s idiotic. You’re not a devil—you’re just kind of a shitty angel."
I'm with Charlie on this one. Or at least I want him to be right, because it would be just awfully homophobic otherwise 😡
(CAN one be a shitty angel? Look, I don't know anything about angels, I do find them weird, to be honest)
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CW: Major spoiler "Neither Have I Wings"
*breathes* *doesn't throw book through the room because it's an ebook*
It is an interesting question: if they lost their memories, would one notice who's the devil and who's the angel? Would it matter?
I have no idea theologically, but it is giving me "Good Omens" fanfic vibes. Hmmm...
(Hey, "Good Omens 2" also had an angel with amnesia!)
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CW: Major spoiler "Neither Have I Wings"
“You never asked me what I am,” Hal said softly. “You didn’t wait for me to explain, either—not that I would have. You came up with the idea of my being an angel all on your own.” “I didn’t come up with it on my own! It was very obvious. What else would you be?” “Oh, Charles. It is much more likely that I am a devil.”
NO, BOOK, YOU DON'T GET TO DO THAT!
You can't let them have a wholesome gay romance and let one be evil!
FFS.
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CW: spoiler "Neither Have I Wings"
"But I don’t see why you can’t have a perfectly successful marriage if you just like each other enough. I just wish we didn’t have to keep pretending to be madly in love! It’s so stupid."
You know what? I like Rosalind. That's very sensible if male homosexuality is a crime and you yourself aren't that interested in romantic love. Marrying a friend sounds like a good idea for both of them.
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CW: spoiler "Neither Have I Wings"
This is getting weirder and weirder. So they try to summon a devil and summon and trap Hal the gay angel instead?
There I was thinking it was some grand occult Nazi conspiracy and it's just two losers who can't even make a pact with the devil? And their friend, who's using the power of the ring to be low-grade evil?
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CW: spoiler "Neither Have I Wings"
I also see what you did here, sending a young person named Underhill on a mission involving a ring with powers.
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I didn't expect THAT plot twist. Oh NICE! They have a lot in common then. And I can still ship them, can't I? She's not that much younger, actually, it's still okay.
(Of course, it isn't: Evgenia wants to take vows. But... you know. She's young. I didn't know anything about my sexuality at eighteen and would have promised celibacy without batting an eyelash. Just saying.)
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CW: mild spoiler "Neither Have I Wings"
Why aren't they pulling her out, though? She's badly hurt and it's hard she can't contact her family. Is there something going on, right here, she's still needed undercover for?
Maybe something like... harnessing the power of angels? That seems like a Nazi thing to do!
(Tangent: strange that you usually summon demons, not angels. Maybe angels don't bargain?)
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CW: mild spoiler "Neither Have I Wings"
"And there was the godmother who had tried three times to teach her to knit; Evvie was fairly sure Baptists didn’t have godmothers. She didn’t think they referred to Mary as Our Lady or the Blessed Virgin, either. She wasn’t sure what all of this added up to."
Ah, I totally missed the Mary thing. True, though. So Evgenia wonders, too.
And wow, "Fee"'s handlers not pulling her out after that accident. Rough.
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Fee apparently knowing the murder victim and not wanting Evgenia to know is... suspicious. When she spoke of her family, I thought maybe she had another brother who died and she didn't want to talk about, but now...
Please don't let her be a German spy! I want to ship Fee/Evgenia and she can't be evil for that!
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CW: Spoilers "Neither Have I Wings", sex mention
Ah. Um. Now I REALLY didn't think this'd go for man-and-angel gay sex, but here we are, eh. I'm slightly scandalized, to be honest.
But I love how ordinary that relationship in their dreams is, how they just share a life.
And my heart breaks because it's just a fantasy. Because one's an angel, and because it's a time when male homosexuality was a criminal offense.
To love only in secret, how that must break a person.
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After a moment she added, “It’s not easy. I expect you’ll have noticed I’m very possessive.” It took Evvie a moment to work out what she meant by that. “Oh, Fee!” she said when she did. “You don’t have to be possessive about me. I feel exactly the same way!”
HOW can you NOT ship that??!
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Having been at a Baptist wedding, I can confirm that at least some do dance at them 😂 I guess it depends on your particular church.
My father remembers the "no dancing, no drinking" rules from the Mennonites in the area he grew up in though.
(I wonder if Rosalind is autistic? She really has no filter when she talks and doesn't seem to be good at making friends.)
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"… fathers and daughters can share some nice things, actually. With sons they have to be all man-to-man and one-day-all-this-will-be-yours, and keep up appearances, but with daughters they can be sentimental and show their affection if they want, and boast about how pretty you are, and … ”
Gentlebeings, this is toxic masculinity in a nutshell.
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So... Fee and Evgenia... look. I respect Evgenia's vows, I really do. She feels really called, I get that.
But I SHIP them like SO MUCH. What beautiful couple they are, one earnest with dark curls and one exuberant with a blonde men's haircut, both intelligent and curious and resourceful. Swoon.
And "I'm picturing you in one of those severe black habits now, looking ravishing"?! How is that not flirting?
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“This has become a very masculine conversation, hasn’t it?” said Fee presently. “Perhaps I had better say something to stem the tide. Um. Hm. I know! Do you have a sweetheart?” She said it as if reciting something by rote, deliberately silly."
🙄 for the gender stereotyping,
😝 for Fee who isn't having it -
"And you’re saved by faith, and works are a waste of time, and … oh, there’s something about the Holy Spirit that we believe that you don’t—but I’m afraid I can’t remember what that is. The something-or-other clause.”
It is very nerdy of me to know that it's the filioque clause, and what it's about, isn't it? Not that I can work myself up to care, though 😝
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"you know, think about the Wedding at Cana—it might be just the way it’s translated, but it really sounds like Jesus absolutely snapped at Our Lady for trying to get him to do a miracle before he was ready, or whatever it was. Like, you know, he expected her to know better."
Hah, nice coincidence, we* just talked about this passage the other day! That's bad reading that didn't occur to us!
*K1 and I, and then @canticanovae and I!
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So far it feels kind of structurally inverse to "From All False Doctrine": that started as all witty banter and romance and the supernatural didn't manifest itself until the end; here it starts supernaturally but the conversation is very awkward at first because Rosalind forever puts her foot we in her mouth, Charlie keeps a secret, Evgenia is very private, the Goods are odd, and Daphne is just mean.
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"She stopped twisting her ring to reach into her handbag, and produced a pamphlet which she offered to Evvie. It was called HARNESSING THE POWER OF THE ANGELS. “Makes them sound like horses or electricity or something,” said Evvie"
Okay, that's NOT good. Are we having a "breed a red heifer" situation here, with some tract-wielding sect? With a scientific note? And it sort of works?
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"Her mind returned to the odious things that Daphne had been saying about love. 'Is this the thing that will begin the awful decline?' How terrible to feel one had to watch one’s beloved every day like a hawk, waiting for some sign that his affection was waning. Was that really what it was like? What if I behaved like that? Evvie thought. [...] It would be the worst kind of sin."
No, not sin, just a very sad insecurity and indoctrination as a woman.