#lojban — Public Fediverse posts
Live and recent posts from across the Fediverse tagged #lojban, aggregated by home.social.
-
for funsies decided to translate my old-ish post into #lojban which turned into a mess of a refactor, but now, i have the post in lojban (and lojban support for the thing that makes my site):
https://vavakado.xyz/jbo/blog/la-declara-de-absurathe refactor took like 2 hours but if i plan to add even more languages it should be WAY easier now :)))
-
for funsies decided to translate my old-ish post into #lojban which turned into a mess of a refactor, but now, i have the post in lojban (and lojban support for the thing that makes my site):
https://vavakado.xyz/jbo/blog/la-declara-de-absurathe refactor took like 2 hours but if i plan to add even more languages it should be WAY easier now :)))
-
I was wrong, turns out there /is/ a way to indicate the dialect. Ironically, it's unofficial
-
I suppose, many emoji are attitudinal indicators, that are usually placed at the end, when applied to the whole sentence 🤔
-
I suppose, many emoji are attitudinal indicators, that are usually placed at the end, when applied to the whole sentence 🤔
-
su'a pe'i mi nelci
lo ka sucta .e lo ka ka'e cusku ce'u kei
pe la lojban
zi'e noi so'u va'e fapro lo ke logji pagbu be le bangu ke'e
poi pe'i srana lo ka satci .e to'e sucta -
I guess, generalizing, I like the 'abstraction' and 'expressivity' in Lojban, which is a bit at odds with the 'logical' part of the language which (I presume) is more about 'precision' and 'concreteness'.
That said, I am no expert; there are parts of the lojban grammar I haven't even touched yet. Maybe my perception of lojban is completely off lol
-
.a'u .aicu'i la'acu'i mi tadni ko'a goi lo tokpono bangu
.i ju'a mi sanji lo sidbo be fi ko'a
.ije ku'i go'i po'o .u'i
.i ku'i ko'a frica la .lojban. lo ka ka'e ba'o te cilre .i .u'i 😁
.i .u'e ma cu se simsa lo nu tavla be fo ko'a? -
Should've prefaced this with
0. Everything is a verb. The 'nouns' are embedded into verbs, either in their 'core' or in their arguments. You can 'extract' them. This makes for some interesting mental gymnastics sometimes.
-
Should've prefaced this with
0. Everything is a verb. The 'nouns' are embedded into verbs, either in their 'core' or in their arguments. You can 'extract' them. This makes for some interesting mental gymnastics sometimes.
-
-
-
Decided to write about what I like about lojban, for the sake of balance :D
1. 'Focusing' on a particular argument of a verb (and in L, everything is a verb); English does that as well to an extent, via the passive voice; but L has it on steroids. This is also used to turn verbs into nouns.
2. 'Partially applied' verbs; e.g. 'X gives Y to Z' you can pre-fill any of the X, Y and Z. That with the previous point makes a powerful mechanism to express complex relations tersely.
-
Decided to write about what I like about lojban, for the sake of balance :D
1. 'Focusing' on a particular argument of a verb (and in L, everything is a verb); English does that as well to an extent, via the passive voice; but L has it on steroids. This is also used to turn verbs into nouns.
2. 'Partially applied' verbs; e.g. 'X gives Y to Z' you can pre-fill any of the X, Y and Z. That with the previous point makes a powerful mechanism to express complex relations tersely.
-
3. Dialects. There are several (incompatible) varieties of lojban; some seem more adopted than others. This is probably not so bad and sort of expected in a conlang but, I wish there were disclaimers like "we're using version X.Y.Z in this text"; I mean, lojban has words for paragraph breaks ffs, yet no words for such metadata?
3.1. BTW yes, the verbalized paragraph breaks are just silly 😁
-
3. Dialects. There are several (incompatible) varieties of lojban; some seem more adopted than others. This is probably not so bad and sort of expected in a conlang but, I wish there were disclaimers like "we're using version X.Y.Z in this text"; I mean, lojban has words for paragraph breaks ffs, yet no words for such metadata?
3.1. BTW yes, the verbalized paragraph breaks are just silly 😁
-
2. Lack of consistency in the gismu places. I've been classifying the gismu places by semantics and they are basically all over the place. One example is in the screenshot. Just, why!? This might seem contrived or fixable but, there are more examples like this. For instance, they couldn't decide on the order SOURCE - DESTINATION vs DESTINATION - SOURCE. This makes it harder to learn the words and is just, well, pas comme il faut for a 'logical' language
-
2. Lack of consistency in the gismu places. I've been classifying the gismu places by semantics and they are basically all over the place. One example is in the screenshot. Just, why!? This might seem contrived or fixable but, there are more examples like this. For instance, they couldn't decide on the order SOURCE - DESTINATION vs DESTINATION - SOURCE. This makes it harder to learn the words and is just, well, pas comme il faut for a 'logical' language
-
my gripes with lojban are, currently, the following:
1. Lack of noise robustness. This includes both the literal noise when speaking and the digital noise, for example typos. My favourite example: `so'i` means `many` while `so'u` means `few`. They are literally next to each other on the keyboard yet are the exact opposites. This is the result of a very tight morphology coupled with a certain knack for loading the alphabetic order with semantic meaning
👇
-
my gripes with lojban are, currently, the following:
1. Lack of noise robustness. This includes both the literal noise when speaking and the digital noise, for example typos. My favourite example: `so'i` means `many` while `so'u` means `few`. They are literally next to each other on the keyboard yet are the exact opposites. This is the result of a very tight morphology coupled with a certain knack for loading the alphabetic order with semantic meaning
👇
-
-
-
tu'a lo jikca se tcana pi so'u roi cu galfi mi lo jai cinmo be lo ka gleki
.i na'o rinka lo nu mi badri -
I need to stop obsessing with lojban so much. I don't even like the actual language that much lol. Def no intention to actually speak it freely. But I keep browsing la sutysisku and scanning CLL for no reason hehe
-
I need to stop obsessing with lojban so much. I don't even like the actual language that much lol. Def no intention to actually speak it freely. But I keep browsing la sutysisku and scanning CLL for no reason hehe
-
mi se spaji lo nu viska lo pixra be lo pinji ca lo nu catlu la sutysisku
.i .a'u lo vlavelcki be lo vibna cu claxu lo simsa pixra -
Not that Lojban can't be spoken in, obviously it can. But lojban has a certain, er, aesthetic to it, kind of like exposed concrete of a brutalist building or beams and joists of some factory. While Toaq, as far as I can understand, tries to conceal its engineeredness.
-
I've been reading more into Toaq, definitely an interesting one. I shouldn't have dismissed it so easily because of its being tonal. It sounds nicer than lojban and I like that one of its goals is to be a language humans can actually speak in
-
Surely I'm not the first to notice a similarity between the Lojban's apostrophe (that makes the H sound) and the Ancient Greek rough breathing mark ◌̔ (that makes the same sound).
I've not found any direct evidence that the latter influenced the former (not that I did much research into it anyway) but I like to think there was some secret Ancient Greek admirer among the lojban creators
-
Surely I'm not the first to notice a similarity between the Lojban's apostrophe (that makes the H sound) and the Ancient Greek rough breathing mark ◌̔ (that makes the same sound).
I've not found any direct evidence that the latter influenced the former (not that I did much research into it anyway) but I like to think there was some secret Ancient Greek admirer among the lojban creators
-
That took me a good hour to concoct, scouring la sutysisku in search for words to express what I wanted to say. The automatic parser says it means roughly what I indented it to but I'm still not sure if it means exactly that 🤷♀️ anyway that was a fun exercise
also sorry #tokipona people, seems like mastodon doesn't list #lojban as a possible toot language so I chose tokipona as a kind of opposite of lojban hehe
-
That took me a good hour to concoct, scouring la sutysisku in search for words to express what I wanted to say. The automatic parser says it means roughly what I indented it to but I'm still not sure if it means exactly that 🤷♀️ anyway that was a fun exercise
also sorry #tokipona people, seems like mastodon doesn't list #lojban as a possible toot language so I chose tokipona as a kind of opposite of lojban hehe
-
ca'o tcidu lo cukta be fi la platon bei me'e zo menon.
.i da lo pagbu cu skicu lo nu lo se djuno cu frica lo se jinvi ku gi'e lo du'u so'i da ponse ri enai ra.
.i la'e di'u cu mupli fi la'i #LLM
.i djuno no .i ku'i cnano jinvi
-
ca'o tcidu lo cukta be fi la platon bei me'e zo menon.
.i da lo pagbu cu skicu lo nu lo se djuno cu frica lo se jinvi ku gi'e lo du'u so'i da ponse ri enai ra.
.i la'e di'u cu mupli fi la'i #LLM
.i djuno no .i ku'i cnano jinvi
-
my (probably butchered but synthetically correct) attempt at lojban:
ji'a lo drata noi fanza mi ra'a la lojban ku'o du
lo nu zo'e lacri lo valsi te liste lo smuni be lo sumti -
my (probably butchered but synthetically correct) attempt at lojban:
ji'a lo drata noi fanza mi ra'a la lojban ku'o du
lo nu zo'e lacri lo valsi te liste lo smuni be lo sumti -
so I've been dabbling with lojban for a couple of days, the basics are pretty straightforward but then there's a vast sea of details that one drowns in. I'm not sure I like that so many words look basically the same (co'a ca'o co'o). I hate ".i" lol. I'd like a stripped down version of this language. People seem to point in the direction of Toaq but a tonal language? no thanks
-
so I've been dabbling with lojban for a couple of days, the basics are pretty straightforward but then there's a vast sea of details that one drowns in. I'm not sure I like that so many words look basically the same (co'a ca'o co'o). I hate ".i" lol. I'd like a stripped down version of this language. People seem to point in the direction of Toaq but a tonal language? no thanks
-
Funny that languages such as Lojban were created (in part) to help make computers reason but, it turnes out, computers are not particularly good at the kind of 'symbolic' reasoning required for Lojban
-
Funny that languages such as Lojban were created (in part) to help make computers reason but, it turnes out, computers are not particularly good at the kind of 'symbolic' reasoning required for Lojban
-
Abro un minihilo para hablar brevemente de dos cosas que —además de no interesar a absolutamente nadie :crashbandicoot:— no tienen nada que ver entre sí, pero que las reúno aquí porque, involuntaria y «arqueológicamente», me topé con ellas el día de hoy. Dos cosas que fracasaron casi desde el comienzo y/o que fueron olvidadas rápidamente: el #IdiomaArtificial #lojban y el #CódecDeAudio sin pérdida de calidad #OptimFROG.
-
i would like to (re)learn #lojban. does anyone know what the best tools are these days for learning it
-
i would like to (re)learn #lojban. does anyone know what the best tools are these days for learning it
-
i wanna learn #lojban, what resources would you recommend to me?
-
I can't subvocalize easily, is this something the average person can pronounce?
- leicmin
- /lɛj'ʃmin/
- LAY-shmin (I'm guessing from the IPA)
It's Lojban, if you are curious: klesi + cmima + n
-
I can't subvocalize easily, is this something the average person can pronounce?
- leicmin
- /lɛj'ʃmin/
- LAY-shmin (I'm guessing from the IPA)
It's Lojban, if you are curious: klesi + cmima + n
-
I really need get back to Lojban’s emotional strength modifiers. Although I need to refresh what I knew of Lojban first. I wish I had a book on it in paper…
-
I really need get back to Lojban’s emotional strength modifiers. Although I need to refresh what I knew of Lojban first. I wish I had a book on it in paper…
-
oooookaaaaayyyyyy!
Leveled up #guitar again!
Youngest child (18) and I both brought ours to the annual family gathering. As it happened, two members of their fam (inc 15yo child) did the same.
We had several jams. Our levels range from "makes sounds that are clearly different chords" to "pretty good casual player" and of course we hadn't practiced anything. Still, we were listenable to the point of normies singing along.
Oh and 26yo composed a lullaby (in #lojban...) that two of us played...with different strumming patterns! My strumming has leveled up for sure!
-
oooookaaaaayyyyyy!
Leveled up #guitar again!
Youngest child (18) and I both brought ours to the annual family gathering. As it happened, two members of their fam (inc 15yo child) did the same.
We had several jams. Our levels range from "makes sounds that are clearly different chords" to "pretty good casual player" and of course we hadn't practiced anything. Still, we were listenable to the point of normies singing along.
Oh and 26yo composed a lullaby (in #lojban...) that two of us played...with different strumming patterns! My strumming has leveled up for sure!
-
(english original on top ^)
Итак, сегодня я объясню вам первую, более старую идею. Этот #апостериорный #конланг основан на матрицах (спойлер: вторая идея основана на деревьях). Во-первых, у вас во рту есть 4 места (заднее, как «к»; среднее, как «л»; переднее, или зубы, как «с» и «н»; и губы, как «п»). Далее, у вас есть 4 способа взаимодействия с ними (носовой, как "n"; стук, как "t"; аппроксимация, как "s" (или "j" i meah "y", й, в случае с задним рядом), трение, как "th").
Итак, матрица согласных выглядит так:
g k j h
l r c x
n t s z
m p v f
звучит как:
ng k y gh
l r ch sh
n t (t)s th
m p w f
ts-th - это моё самое слабое место, но я не могу придумать ничего лучше :(
Затем у нас есть стандартные пять гласных (a e i o u), в сумме 80 слогов.
В идеале каждое место, взаимодействие и гласная вносят свой вклад в конечное значение слога. Четыре категории для места, четыре категории для способа, пять - для гласной, и они суммируются в значение. Например, если бы задняя часть означала «human», tap – «action» и o – «group» (теоретически), тогда «ko» будет чем-то вроде «contact» (не знаю). Тогда, с похожим слогом, например, «to», когда teeth-place означает «feeling», это будет что-то вроде «rough». (Я на самом деле хз, как лучше распределить категории, мб, нужны дополнительные исследования в области философии, психологии и лингвистики. Для мест я предлагаю: back-human – middle-nature – teeth-feelinss – lips-abstract).
Итак, теперь у нас есть слог! Мы общаемся с помощью слогов? Нет! Мы общаемся с помощью трёх категорий: значения; роль в тексте; наше отношение или заполняющие слова, например, «like», «idk», «ну», «типа».
Для значений мы объединяем три слога вперёд (согласный-гласный, или CV), как в koselu. Во-первых, «ko» – самый важный, он даёт представление о том, о чём идёт речь. Во-вторых, сужает его до… Меньшая группа вещей. А третья определяет именно то, о чём мы говорим. И нет, мы не создаём их, когда говорим, это не #ithkuil — создатели создают слова один раз, записывают их в словарь, и учащемуся нужно только увидеть их там, узнать их значение, и их структура должна очень помочь в запоминании. Схожие (по значению) вещи звучат похоже. Разные вещи звучат по-разному. В построении слов есть (должна быть) логика. Расположение слов в алфавитном порядке (алфавитный порядок [g k j h l r c x n t s z m p v f a e i o u]) также классифицирует их по значению, сферам, поэтому поиск слова по значению почти так же прост, как поиск по звуку!
В слове 80 слогов и 80**3=512000 возможных значений, чего должно быть достаточно для создания слов на любую возможную тему в человечестве, и в будущем появятся свободные.
Теперь поговорим о грамматике. Для неё мы используем обратную (VC) - гласные согласные, например, "on"). Их может быть сколько угодно, и мы можем даже строить предложения в разных парадигмах. Например, тема и информация (T-cat I-black = кот чёрный), подлежащее, глагол, дополнение (S-cat V-eating O-fish - кот ест рыбу), дополнение и дескриптор (O-cat D-black - кот чёрный), объедините их (подлежащее-объект-тема, кот, дескриптор-информация, чёрный, объект-объект-тема, рыба, дескриптор-тема, мокрый, объект-глагол-информация, ест, дескриптор-информация, быстро = кот чёрный и быстро съедает ту рыбу, которая мокрая, знаете ли).
Всего 80 грамматических слогов, и они также перекрёстные 4-4-5, но взаимодействие места и гласный означают разные вещи, не [человек - природа - чувство - абстрактный], а связанные с грамматикой вещи. Следует изучить разные (фактически, все возможные) языки, чтобы понять, как распределять эти грамматические конструкции. Слоги
И концепция из #lojban (но используется во всех языках, по сути, самыми разными способами), междометия — структура VCV, 400 вариантов. В идеале они объединяют значения грамматических и содержательных слогов, но тут только одна согласная, и я не совсем уверен, должна ли она быть уникальной или иметь значение, как в содержательном слове. Тогда у нас есть две гласные — первая означает то же, что и в грамматических словах, вторая — то же, что и в содержательных словах. Одна междометия может заменить целое предложение, например, «я согласен с этим» мы заменяем на «ok».
Будет список предопределённых междометий для использования, как и в содержательных словах, но этот список гораздо короче и постоянен (5*16*5 = 400 слов).
Кроме того... можно создать очень классный способ записи языка. Например, содержательные слова — картинки, составленные из трёх частей (первый слог в середине, объект изображения, второй — некоторые детали, и третье — некий оттенок или контур, но часть рисунка), грамматика — ошибки и/или границы (контуры) между и/или вокруг этих рисунков, и отношение — контур вокруг всего предложения (или пустое место, если оно отдельно).
Вот и всё — моя первая маленькая идея для конланга. Расскажите, где я ошибаюсь, что вам нравится, хотите ли вы увидеть этот конланг готовым, или вы вообще можете помочь этому случиться.
#конлангинг #эсперанто #токипона #язык #языки #лингвистика -
(for my russian readers, перевод через гугл сразу под постом)
so today im explaining you the first idea, the older one. this #apriory #conlang is based on matrices (spoiler, the seconed idea is based on trees). first, you have 4 places in your mouth (back, like "k"; middle, like "l"; front, or teeth, like "s" and "n"; and lips, like "p"). next, you have 4 ways of interacting with them (nasal, like "n"; tap, like "t"; approximation, like "s" (or "j" i meah "y", й, in the back's case), friction, like "th")
so, the matrix of consonants is:
g k j h
l r c x
n t s z
m p v f
which sounds:
ng k y gh
l r ch sh
n t (t)s th
m p w f
ts - th is my weakest place but i cant come up with anything better :(
then we have standard five vowels (a e i o u), which results in 80 syllables total
ideally, each place, way of interaction and vowel all contribute to the final meaning of a syllable. four categories for the place, four categories for the way, five - for the vowel, and they sum into meaning. like if the back would mean "human", tap - "action" and o - "group" (theoretically), then "ko" would be something like "contact" (idk). then, with the similar syllable, like "to", when teeth-place mean "feeling", that would be smth like "rough". (i dont actually know how it would be better to assign categories, probably need more research in philosophy, psychology and linguistics. for the places, i propose: back-human - middle-nature - teeth-feelinss - lips-abstract)
so now we have a syllable! do we communicate with syllables? no! we communicate with three categories: meanings; role in the text; our attitude or filling words, like "like", "idk", "ну", "типа"
for meanings, we combine three forward (consonant-vowel, or CV) syllables, like koselu. first, "ko" is the most important, it gives you an idea of about what are we talking. second narrows it to a smaller group of things. and the third identifies the very thing we're talking about. and no, we do not construct them as we speak, thats not #ithkuil - the creators create words once, write them into the dictionary, and learner only has to see it there, learn what it means, and it's structure should help in memorising very much. similar (in meaning) things sound similar. different things sound different. there is (should be) logic in how the word is built. ordering words alphabetically (the alphabet order is [g k j h l r c x n t s z m p v f a e i o u]) also categorizes them in meaning, spheres, so searching the word by meaning is almost as easy as searching it by sound!
there are 80 syllables, and 80**3=512000 possible meanings, which should be enough to create words for any possible topic in humanity, and there will be free ones for future
now, lets talk about grammar. for it, we use backward (VC - vowel consonant, like "on") syllables. we can have as many as we want, and we can even build sentences in different paradigms. for example, Theme and Information (T-cat I-black = the cat is black), Subject Verb Object (S-cat V-eating O-fish - the cat eats a fish), Object and Descriptor (O-cat D-black - the cat is black), combine them (subject-object-theme cat descriptor-info black object-object-theme fish descriptor-theme wet object-verb-info eating descriptor-info fast = the cat is black and quickly eats that one fish which is wet, you know)
there are 80 grammar syllables, and they are also 4-4-5 cross, but place interaction and vowel mean different things, not [human - nature - feeling - abstract], but grammar related stuff. should study different (all possible, in fact) languages to figure out how to distribute these grammar syllables
and, the concept from #lojban (but used in all sorts of languages in fact, in all sorts of waysp, attitudinals - VCV structure, 400 possibilities. ideally they combine meanings of a grammar and content syllables, but here we have only one consonant, and im not really sure should it be unique, or have a meaning like in content word, then we have two vowels - first means same as in grammar words, second means same as in content words. one attitudinal may replace a whole sentence, like "i agree with that" we replace with "ok"
there should be a list of predefined attitudinals to use, like with content words, but the list is much shorter and constant (5*16*5 = 400 entries)
aalsoo.. a very cool way to write the language may be created. like content words - pictures, combined from three parts (first syllable in the middle, the object of picture. second - some details, and third - some tint to it, or outline but part of picture), grammar - arrors and/or/combined borders (outlines) between and/or/combined around these picture, and attitudinal - an outline around the whole sentence (or empty space if alone)
so thats it - my first little conlang idea, tell my where im wrong, or what you like about it or if you want to see that conlang actually created or if you even can help that happen
#conlanging #esperanto #tokipona #language #languages #linguistics -
Лямбда, Лисп и Ложбан — в поисках утраченного Вавилона, или мой проект конструирования симметричного языка
В этом монументальном тексте я постараюсь рассказать вам о трёх непревзойдённых шедеврах XX века - математическом языке лямбда-исчисления, языке программирования LISP и спроектированном языке человеческого общения под названием "Ложбан", а также о лежащих в их основе общих принципах и идеях. Кроме того, в конце этого поста я представлю вам свой собственный проект по конструированию языка человеческого общения, в основу которого я положил фундаментальные лингвистические симметрии. Мой проект развивает идеи Ложбана и пытается исправить его недостатки, в мессианской надежде отыскать давно утерянный допотопный язык.
https://habr.com/ru/articles/902574/
#лямбдаисчисление #LISP #ложбан #Лиспик #lojban #лисп #lispeak
-
Can't believe #Lojban doesn't have a word for "Bazinga"
-
hmmm, i kinda want to learn #lojban just because i am interested in how it will affect my way of thinking....
-
Instead of doing something useful, I decided to try to translate my poem into #Lojban:
.i lo brife cu na'e ckaji loka jafpri
.iku'i rinka lonu boxna .e lonu slisrasu
.i lo vilti'a ka'e falcru lo tricu(Not sure how good the translation is, at least it's valid grammatically)