#liberalvalues — Public Fediverse posts

It's really depressing how many people these days support authoritarianism. Whether it's for the sake of the minorities, or the dominant group, or women, or god, or "national security".
#LiberalValues are falling by the wayside.

I get that liberal now means progressive in other countries, but does it need to? Separating the two would be so useful today when much of the left is desperate to never see misinformation and views they disagree with. Many conservatives are this way too but we've always known that. It's already in the term they use. #LiberalValues

https://www.racket.news/p/is-traditional-liberalism-vanishing

I get that liberal now means progressive in other countries, but does it need to? Separating the two would be so useful today when much of the left is desperate to never see misinformation and views they disagree with. Many conservatives are this way too but we've always known that. It's already in the term they use. #LiberalValues

https://www.racket.news/p/is-traditional-liberalism-vanishing

#MAGA is the illiberal right.

The #woke are the illiberal left.

They demand that you agree with them re what the truth is and reject the democratic process in government. The Enlightenment was a mistake. They think some people just might be evil, not worth reasoning with.

It's important to make this distinction because many more people are conservative or progressive than fit into these groups. And the rise of these detrimental groups can be reversed by embracing #LiberalValues on all sides.

#MAGA is the illiberal right.

The #woke are the illiberal left.

They demand that you agree with them re what the truth is and reject the democratic process in government. The Enlightenment was a mistake. They think some people just might be evil, not worth reasoning with.

It's important to make this distinction because many more people are conservative or progressive than fit into these groups. And the rise of these detrimental groups can be reversed by embracing #LiberalValues on all sides.

What makes you liberal is opposing the illegal forced change of government no matter the ideology or partisanship of the parties involved. An illiberal progressive or conservative just cares about the results. A liberal cares about the public understanding being truthful and the variety of interests being heard and competing fairly. #LiberalValues

What makes you liberal is opposing the illegal forced change of government no matter the ideology or partisanship of the parties involved. An illiberal progressive or conservative just cares about the results. A liberal cares about the public understanding being truthful and the variety of interests being heard and competing fairly. #LiberalValues

Without empathy, thinking you've got all the answers and the people who disagree are idiots, can make perfect sense. More intelligence doesn't help us address that basic human failure. You must be able to step outside of yourself to see the value in a more open system, otherwise you will see them as at best speed bumps to your glorious vision. #LiberalValues

Without empathy, thinking you've got all the answers and the people who disagree are idiots, can make perfect sense. More intelligence doesn't help us address that basic human failure. You must be able to step outside of yourself to see the value in a more open system, otherwise you will see them as at best speed bumps to your glorious vision. #LiberalValues

"The purpose of art and civilization is to help us grow a little, to increase our ability to empathize with people outside of ourselves, to develop an understanding of the theory of mind."

best Pope from #Chicago ever! #LiberalValues

"The purpose of art and civilization is to help us grow a little, to increase our ability to empathize with people outside of ourselves, to develop an understanding of the theory of mind."

best Pope from #Chicago ever! #LiberalValues

It's all subjective. When you recognize that and choose to weigh everyone else's right to define what is true and how to live together equally, you end up with #LiberalValues.

https://www.youtube.com/live/YqIaiQ-aK_s?si=KXLgJW3ceGZtSf7c

It's all subjective. When you recognize that and choose to weigh everyone else's right to define what is true and how to live together equally, you end up with #LiberalValues.

https://www.youtube.com/live/YqIaiQ-aK_s?si=KXLgJW3ceGZtSf7c

Talk about politics as if everybody is a mix of both self-interest and trying to advance some vision of the better life for others. Nobody is evil but we're all definitely working with limited information and a bias built on our own life experiences. And if they are powerful in this broken system, they're also probably willing to mislead others for private or public goals.

Skepticism but not cynicism. A space to find compromise but not be taken advantage of.

#LiberalValues #civics

Talk about politics as if everybody is a mix of both self-interest and trying to advance some vision of the better life for others. Nobody is evil but we're all definitely working with limited information and a bias built on our own life experiences. And if they are powerful in this broken system, they're also probably willing to mislead others for private or public goals.

Skepticism but not cynicism. A space to find compromise but not be taken advantage of.

#LiberalValues #civics

@mariabustillos.com

empathy, curiosity and integrity #LiberalValues

@mariabustillos.com

empathy, curiosity and integrity #LiberalValues

I want #RankedChoiceVoting and #DemocracyOfReach and a better UN because I believe in #LiberalValues. I think we get the best outcomes for everyone when everyone gets an equal say.

I recognize individual ignorance and bias. I think fascism and the excesses of capitalism come down to concentrated power and people thinking they are smarter or more righteous than others. I can't understand thinking you were born into the best ethnicity or can somehow better discern the voice of the supreme being.

I want #RankedChoiceVoting and #DemocracyOfReach and a better UN because I believe in #LiberalValues. I think we get the best outcomes for everyone when everyone gets an equal say.

I recognize individual ignorance and bias. I think fascism and the excesses of capitalism come down to concentrated power and people thinking they are smarter or more righteous than others. I can't understand thinking you were born into the best ethnicity or can somehow better discern the voice of the supreme being.

AI agrees with you to maximize engagement (make their owners more money). Yes that's what your favorite political pundit is doing too.

Our #civics is doomed unless we come to appreciate (and support) the people who are smart and well informed but also honest with empathy for all sides. #LiberalValues

AI agrees with you to maximize engagement (make their owners more money). Yes that's what your favorite political pundit is doing too.

Our #civics is doomed unless we come to appreciate (and support) the people who are smart and well informed but also honest with empathy for all sides. #LiberalValues

@aaronrosspowell.com

what % of the liberty movement just wants less limits on making more money?

while I consider myself liberal, I don't use libertarian or classical liberal because that tends to imply some level of market fundamentalism. liberalism (not sure about liberty) can require limits on some for the greater benefit of all. liberalism should be about the Enlightenment. constantly refiguring out how best to live together.

#LiberalValues: empathy, curiosity and integrity

@aaronrosspowell.com

what % of the liberty movement just wants less limits on making more money?

while I consider myself liberal, I don't use libertarian or classical liberal because that tends to imply some level of market fundamentalism. liberalism (not sure about liberty) can require limits on some for the greater benefit of all. liberalism should be about the Enlightenment. constantly refiguring out how best to live together.

#LiberalValues: empathy, curiosity and integrity

Politics actually shouldn't be about persuasion imo. That would just lead to the people with the most power to push shit on others winning. We should be trying to ensure everybody is well informed and thinking about institutions, issues and policy critically, while we try to balance the powers of persuasion in society. And maximize people having their perspectives represented in government.

My #LiberalValues are ridiculous.

Politics actually shouldn't be about persuasion imo. That would just lead to the people with the most power to push shit on others winning. We should be trying to ensure everybody is well informed and thinking about institutions, issues and policy critically, while we try to balance the powers of persuasion in society. And maximize people having their perspectives represented in government.

My #LiberalValues are ridiculous.

@ryan

why must you reframe what I said?

I asked if he ever admitted to changing his mind, exactly what you constantly accuse me of not doing. And just did above. That's the test imo (and it seems yours), not whether he agrees with me. And I can only offer my posts and shows to argue I'm trying to do that and what I think #LiberalValues are.

AFAICT he was doing exactly what you claim I'm doing. Using rhetorical tricks to fool bystanders re how much his ideas are better than those of lefties.

@ryan

why must you reframe what I said?

I asked if he ever admitted to changing his mind, exactly what you constantly accuse me of not doing. And just did above. That's the test imo (and it seems yours), not whether he agrees with me. And I can only offer my posts and shows to argue I'm trying to do that and what I think #LiberalValues are.

AFAICT he was doing exactly what you claim I'm doing. Using rhetorical tricks to fool bystanders re how much his ideas are better than those of lefties.

One argument that #CharlieKirk was different is that his whole persona was about talking to people that disagreed with him. So did he ever publicly admit to being persuaded or say conservatives were wrong on an issue? Otherwise it was performative. Tricky arguments rather than honest open conversations.

In my experience, you don't get popular doing that. You won't be praised by leaders and given political money if you sometimes loudly say they are wrong. But maybe I missed it.

#LiberalValues

One argument that #CharlieKirk was different is that his whole persona was about talking to people that disagreed with him. So did he ever publicly admit to being persuaded or say conservatives were wrong on an issue? Otherwise it was performative. Tricky arguments rather than honest open conversations.

In my experience, you don't get popular doing that. You won't be praised by leaders and given political money if you sometimes loudly say they are wrong. But maybe I missed it.

#LiberalValues

Obviously the worst thing is the unjustified violence.

But if someone like Osama says kill people, that's bad too. What if they never actually tell people to kill others but just say some group is doing horrible shit and nobody will stop them. Doesn't that imply somebody should? And if you stop somebody that they then inspired, how useful is that when they can easily inspire so many others?

I don't know what to do with all this except to encourage us to talk things out instead. #LiberalValues

Obviously the worst thing is the unjustified violence.

But if someone like Osama says kill people, that's bad too. What if they never actually tell people to kill others but just say some group is doing horrible shit and nobody will stop them. Doesn't that imply somebody should? And if you stop somebody that they then inspired, how useful is that when they can easily inspire so many others?

I don't know what to do with all this except to encourage us to talk things out instead. #LiberalValues

I strongly disagree with @kenwhite.bsky.social. It has always rested on the people to demand more than barbarism from their government. To teach #LiberalValues to future generations. But we've been failing to do this well in this nation for generations. Our foreign policy has been total disregard for international standards when it serves elite interests, while we pretend to care when it suits us. Like renaming the Pentagon, they're just ripping off the mask.

I strongly disagree with @kenwhite.bsky.social. It has always rested on the people to demand more than barbarism from their government. To teach #LiberalValues to future generations. But we've been failing to do this well in this nation for generations. Our foreign policy has been total disregard for international standards when it serves elite interests, while we pretend to care when it suits us. Like renaming the Pentagon, they're just ripping off the mask.

when you don't have a cultural norm of debate and dialogue, it ends up mattering much more who can achieve a greater reach for their argument than whose argument is better. #LiberalValues

when you don't have a cultural norm of debate and dialogue, it ends up mattering much more who can achieve a greater reach for their argument than whose argument is better. #LiberalValues

Ok, so I finally got a framing of liberalism from the left that I can understand, even if I disagree with it.

That liberalism believes we can't challenge market power. So their approach to dealing with climate change fails because it says going after oil companies is off limits. Fixing health care includes saying we can't confront big pharma and insurance companies. It's like libertarian lite.

Not my liberalism of facts and dialogue towards any possible policy, but I get it.

#LiberalValues

Ok, so I finally got a framing of liberalism from the left that I can understand, even if I disagree with it.

That liberalism believes we can't challenge market power. So their approach to dealing with climate change fails because it says going after oil companies is off limits. Fixing health care includes saying we can't confront big pharma and insurance companies. It's like libertarian lite.

Not my liberalism of facts and dialogue towards any possible policy, but I get it.

#LiberalValues

We don't need and shouldn't want #journalism that is neutral or moderate, but it must be in good faith and strive to be fair. Lying assholes deter us from engaging in the public conversation, hurting democracy and our shared civic life. #LiberalValues

We don't need and shouldn't want #journalism that is neutral or moderate, but it must be in good faith and strive to be fair. Lying assholes deter us from engaging in the public conversation, hurting democracy and our shared civic life. #LiberalValues

Over time, people figure it out. We just usually hate admitting we were wrong to people who disagree with us.

So the best (only?) thing we can really do is build systems that encourage everyone getting a variety of info and perspectives to speed it along. Cause the sooner minds change, the less unnecessary pain we'll experience.

#LiberalValues #SocialWeb #DemocracyOfReach

Over time, people figure it out. We just usually hate admitting we were wrong to people who disagree with us.

So the best (only?) thing we can really do is build systems that encourage everyone getting a variety of info and perspectives to speed it along. Cause the sooner minds change, the less unnecessary pain we'll experience.

#LiberalValues #SocialWeb #DemocracyOfReach

Liberals are dissidents. They speak out against all sides as appropriate. Sometimes that's the establishment, sometimes that's your "own side".

I hate that liberal has lost this meaning. That many now think it means exactly the opposite of that. That the left calls people just to the right of themselves and/or those who support the Dem establishment liberal. And the right uses the term for everybody left of themselves, seeing little disagreement among that huge swath of people.

#LiberalValues

Liberals are dissidents. They speak out against all sides as appropriate. Sometimes that's the establishment, sometimes that's your "own side".

I hate that liberal has lost this meaning. That many now think it means exactly the opposite of that. That the left calls people just to the right of themselves and/or those who support the Dem establishment liberal. And the right uses the term for everybody left of themselves, seeing little disagreement among that huge swath of people.

#LiberalValues

No service can replace social media by giving you all the news you need because everybody is biased in different ways. Same as cable news etc. The magic of social media is you can curate a wide variety of smart perspectives but you do must do the work. The alternative is giving over influence regarding what we know and think about to a more selected few. That will always be bad for democracy. It's not just voting but what info and perspectives influence those votes. #LiberalValues #SocialWeb

No service can replace social media by giving you all the news you need because everybody is biased in different ways. Same as cable news etc. The magic of social media is you can curate a wide variety of smart perspectives but you do must do the work. The alternative is giving over influence regarding what we know and think about to a more selected few. That will always be bad for democracy. It's not just voting but what info and perspectives influence those votes. #LiberalValues #SocialWeb

"I hope all these MFers, who are out there goose-stepping get fired. He knows what he did. He ran back to the loving embrace of #LiberalValues when he got fired. "Free speech, free speech!" You were just saying you're a fucking Nazi you dumb bitch. Ain't no free speech in Nazi Germany. According to your own ideology, you shouldn't be for free speech. So now, you can't run to the loving embrace of liberal values. After you denounced liberal values on Jubilee."

https://krystalkyleandfriends.substack.com/p/episode-236-audio-andrew-callaghan

"I hope all these MFers, who are out there goose-stepping get fired. He knows what he did. He ran back to the loving embrace of #LiberalValues when he got fired. "Free speech, free speech!" You were just saying you're a fucking Nazi you dumb bitch. Ain't no free speech in Nazi Germany. According to your own ideology, you shouldn't be for free speech. So now, you can't run to the loving embrace of liberal values. After you denounced liberal values on Jubilee."

https://krystalkyleandfriends.substack.com/p/episode-236-audio-andrew-callaghan

"Cease quoting laws to those of us with swords." #PompeyTheGreat

without empathy, without an understanding that this path makes all the benefits of an open society impossible, isn't this the unavoidable result?

And laws are not enough if we do not establish and accept a third party to decide disputes over what they mean and enforce them. otherwise, you're really just back to who is most stubborn and heavily armed. #RuleOfLaw #LiberalValues

"Cease quoting laws to those of us with swords." #PompeyTheGreat

without empathy, without an understanding that this path makes all the benefits of an open society impossible, isn't this the unavoidable result?

And laws are not enough if we do not establish and accept a third party to decide disputes over what they mean and enforce them. otherwise, you're really just back to who is most stubborn and heavily armed. #RuleOfLaw #LiberalValues

I've thought and said #EpsteinDidntKillHimself for years. I think the problems with our government come down more to the wealthy having too much say than Dem or GOP influence. So for me, this case is an example of privileged people being protected by the system. That #MAGA thought Trump would be different shows how badly they misunderstand the world imo. How much they're willing to believe in saviors rather than human nature and do civics.

So I'm a dissident lefty. #LiberalValues

I've thought and said #EpsteinDidntKillHimself for years. I think the problems with our government come down more to the wealthy having too much say than Dem or GOP influence. So for me, this case is an example of privileged people being protected by the system. That #MAGA thought Trump would be different shows how badly they misunderstand the world imo. How much they're willing to believe in saviors rather than human nature and do civics.

So I'm a dissident lefty. #LiberalValues

the right calls everybody left of themselves liberals, but it has always upset me that the mainstream/moderate left gets called liberal by the further left. in my experience, there is a separate part of the further left that is most reliably engaged in critical thinking, honest and trying to understand all other perspectives (#LiberalValues). usually focused on economics and foreign policy, less concerned re feelings etc. dissidents like Greenwald. Bill Moyers was one.

https://fair.org/home/farewell-to-bill-moyers-who-showed-what-public-tv-could-be/

the right calls everybody left of themselves liberals, but it has always upset me that the mainstream/moderate left gets called liberal by the further left. in my experience, there is a separate part of the further left that is most reliably engaged in critical thinking, honest and trying to understand all other perspectives (#LiberalValues). usually focused on economics and foreign policy, less concerned re feelings etc. dissidents like Greenwald. Bill Moyers was one.

https://fair.org/home/farewell-to-bill-moyers-who-showed-what-public-tv-could-be/

If government policy changes and it deeply impacts you but you routinely misunderstand how your representatives' actions led to that outcome, how can democracy work?

#LiberalValues

If government policy changes and it deeply impacts you but you routinely misunderstand how your representatives' actions led to that outcome, how can democracy work?

#LiberalValues

Having massive policy arguments even within the right and left is how our system is supposed to work. Political parties and primaries are not supposed to exist. It's supposed to be chaotic.

But we're not supposed to be in deep disagreement on facts. Or so angry at each other that we can't compromise. Politicians should have to change minds via argument not force of personality. One person possibly donating to campaigns shouldn't be able to influence the passage of legislation.

#LiberalValues

#LiberalValues are about putting the people in control, recognizing that there must be a state or else private power abuses us, but also that the state must be controlled by the public to keep it from abusing us.

within that, you can still be #conservative and primarily concerned about preventing things from getting worse (usually the focus of those older and doing the best) or #progressive and focused on how we need to make things better (usually the concern of those younger and doing poorly).