#kise — Public Fediverse posts
Live and recent posts from across the Fediverse tagged #kise, aggregated by home.social.
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Didn’t finish the #TrumpTrial thread, cuz, stuff, here’s the rest:
#Kise concluded by reiterating claim that there was no proof the loans would not have been made if the #banks had different (accurate) info or that the #loan terms would have been different.
(Moot. See earlier in thread)
"This is what happens in the real world, not the world of make believe, not the attorney general's world," Kise says
#CourtOfPublicOpinion / just a #Trump #campaign speech talking point.
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#Engoron interrupted & asked #Kise if he actually heard what the judge had said.
The #NYAG supplied the answer, that Engoron said he's here to hear #Trump answer questions.
Engoron called that entire portion of Kise's presentation “misleading!" It was intended to be. Just as it was when Trump posted it.
I reposted but here are links
Trump’s post:
https://masto.ai/@Nonilex/111365740541183885What was actually said in court:
https://masto.ai/@Nonilex/111364764092476545 -
I skipped an interesting bit from #Kise’s presentation; he argued that #Trump would qualify in "any court in this country" as an expert on real estate, & then displayed a slide that said:
"The Court stated it is 'not here to hear what [President Trump] has to say!'
This is a word for word duplicate of a Trump social media post.
They’re not even trying to dress up their arguments for court at this point. It’s all for the court of public opinion & Trump. Disgraceful really.
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#Kise argued any transaction before July 2014 cannot form the basis for any of the #NYAG's claims, since they're outside of the statute of limitations.
Kise also argued that subsequent certifications by #Trump et al regarding compliance w/the terms of loans from that time cannot be used to support the allegations either.
(re SOL, Trump attys may be banking on the appeals court stay, but that wasn’t based on SOL, but procedural & still undecided.)
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Thankfully, Justice #Engoron agreed w/ #Kise as well & said he's only going to base his #ruling on what's in front of him, meaning the #evidence presented in this #trial.
#Trump atty moved on to #disgorgement (the #NYAG is seeking $250M in purportedly ill-gotten gains from Trump et al).
Kise: “There's no demonstration of a [connection] between the purported ill-gotten gains & the defendants' (conduct).”
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#Kise attacked the credibility of key witness & fmr #Trump attorney #MichaelCohen:
"I think he's lied in every court or forum that he's ever appeared in.”
Then referring to Trump, Kise stated:
"This is not someone who speaks in code.”Engoron: “I think the 'perfect' call with Zelenskyy about the military aid might have been code.”
(Hmm, not appropriate)Kise said that's a #political matter & shouldn't be a factor here.
(I actually agree w/Kise) -
#Kise started by arguing the standard of proof on the 6 claims at issue requires "clear & convincing evidence," which he says the #NYAG didn’t provide.
Kise: “The attorney general has converted standard commercial real estate loan transactions into fraud not based on what the bank says but what she says.”
(#fraud was already decided, as a matter-of-#law, before this trial.)
#legal #civil #conspiracy #TrumpOrganization #LetitiaJames #TrumpTrial
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#Kise: “Ultimately what matters is the decision-making process of the bank, & if it would have made a difference to them,"
Kise said the #banks considered many factors when deciding whether to lend to #Trump, including the nature of the collateral, the quality of the collateral, Trump's experience & performance in the industry, his liquidity & other factors.
(All of which were misrepresented; & the banks’ decision is not the issue. The issue is the #fraud & Trump’s #intent. Not the banks’.)
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#Trump attorney Chris #Kise argued to NY Supreme Court Justice Arthur #Engoron, that regardless of what was in Trump's #financial statements, they did not make a material difference to bankers who approved #loans to Trump.
Kise says there was no testimony presented at trial by anyone at Trump #lender #DeutscheBank or other lenders that said they would have proceeded differently had they known Trump's accurate financial condition.
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#Trump atty #Kise accused Judge #Engoron of using "two sets of standards."
Solomon countered that it's "night-&-day different" because the state used #Ivanka Trump's communications w/the GSA, not the agency's internal docs.
Engoron to Kise:
"Your constant insinuations that I have different set of standards. It's just not true. …You can keep saying it if it makes you happy, that I'm favoring one side over the other. …I just make the rulings as I see them." -
The cross-examination of #Ivanka is by #Trump atty Jesus Suarez.
Ivanka testified that she had nothing to do w/the preparation of Trump's SFCs.
Shortly after he began questioning, #Engoron noted that she'd answered some of their questions in direct.
Atty Chris #Kise complained that >1 min in, the defense was being told to “hurry up” & said: "That is grossly unfair."
#Engoron: "I disagree."
#law #civil #conspiracy #fraud #TrumpOrganization #NYAG #LetitiaJames #TrumpTrial
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#NYAG showed an email from #JaredKushner to #Ivanka on June 17, 2013:
"You can get better pricing for such LTV. Nativixis will give you 140MM at that rate most likely. Show i show it to them?" (sic) (#LTV=Loan to Value)NYAG asked why she showed such info to #Kushner,
#Kise objected on spousal privilege grounds.
#Engoron decided that was a good time for a lunch break
#Trump #legal #law #civil #conspiracy #fraud #TrumpOrganization #TrumpTrial
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#Kise: "While there is some contextual latitude...we're asking about things that are well-barred.”
#Engoron: “I agree w/your logic that a certification in 2016 doesn't affect anything about original loan, however (some loans) require as a condition of a loan the #TrumpOrganization or whoever…certify things in the future. I believe those certifications are at issue."
#Ivanka retook the stand.
Engoron to Ivanka: “Sorry to have kept you in the dark.”
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#Ivanka got a break while attys argued SOL to.
#Engoron: "For me, the reasons for all the rulings on statute of limitations from pre-2014 & 2016 deals...these deals, at least some of them, were required for updated financials, year after year.… It doesn't make sense to talk about the follow up documentation w/o [referencing] the original loan.”
#Trump atty #Kise: "Nothing that was done by way of certification (affects) a decision that was made years before the statute of limitations expired.”
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Justice #Engoron responded that he didn’t think that mattered.
#Kise: “We haven't had any questions about those corporate entities.”
Engoron considered it further & said: “It's an interesting question; to what extent the question has to be limited to the grounds of the subpoena?"
#Trump attorney #AlinaHabba: "She's no longer a defendant in this case.”
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#NYAG: "Were you aware that in his statements of financial condition for 2011, Donald Trump represented that his net worth was more than $4 billion?"
#Ivanka: “No”
#Trump atty Chris #Kise said that all of this questioning is outside the scope of the #subpoena that compelled Ivanka to testify:
"This individual was subpoenaed on behalf of three corp entities, & none of those entities have anything to do w/(the Doral loan).”
#legal #law #civil #conspiracy #fraud #TrumpOrganization #TrumpTrial
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#AlinaHabba made clear that the motion would be in part about Justice Engoron's principal #LawClerk.
#Engoron: "Don't file that motion, please. I think it's important for the safety of my staff. I am 1,000% convinced, & you don't have any right or reason to complain about my confidential communication."
#Kise: “There's no way to file that motion without referencing the subject matter.”
Engoron: “I'm directing you not to make that motion [...] I'm going to protect my staff, okay."
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#NYAG: "Your honor, we have nothing further at this time for this witness.”
(Thank goodness)#Kise declined cross-examination at this time.
#Trump left the stand.
Trump's attys made post-trial arguments on motions they may make, such as #mistrial motions or challenging the expansion of the #GagOrder to the lawyers.
#Kise says that he may want to mention information potentially barred by the gag order on the lawyers in their mistrial motion.
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#Kise made his usual statute of limitations objection on a term loan agreement from late 2012, which Judge #Engoron overruled - Trump smiled at the ruling.
When it was entered into evidence, Trump shook his head.
#Trump: “The number[s] of my net worth are substantially more than reflected in my financial statements, so therefore you have no case. I think this case is a disgrace
(Trump campaigning from the stand)
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#NYAG showed a 2015 #Forbes article.
Trump scoffed: "Forbes. They're owned by China. Now, they sold to Russia."
The article says that #Trump was very much involved in inflating his #assets,
Trump: “I have very little respect for Forbes."
(Forbes broke the news that Trump inflated the size of his apt & recently knocked him off the billionaires list.)The article cited a recorded conversation at the time. Trump atty #Kise objected & called the recording inaudible. #Engoron agreed re quality.
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"A #NegativeInference can be made when a person on the witness stand fails to provide their expected evidence or testimony. It allows the court to presume that the individual avoided providing evidence or testimony because it was unfavorable to one of the parties.
“I beseech you to control him if I can’t,” #Engoron [the judge] said to #Kise [Trump's attorney]. “If you can’t, I will excuse him and draw any negative inference that I can.”"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/11/06/trump-testimony-ny-fraud-trial/#link-DCS36XEJTVEM3JN23SILNJ4WKA -
Justice #Engoron tells the #NYAG that he's following his lead, & if he wants to let the witness "ramble" on w/ "unresponsive" answers, he'll do that.
#Kise defends what he describes as Trump's "brilliant" response.
#Trump: “I have a lot of money, a lot more money than you thought."
Trump goes on to say that since his financial statements have disclaimer clauses, telling parties to do their own due diligence, there can be no #fraud. He’s totally off topic.
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Apparently it looked like #Trump was l going to start another tangent because, #NYAG said: “ I think we'll take our break now," & said he'd appreciate it if #Kise would talk w/his client.
At one point, #Engoron said he would excuse the witness if he didn't respond to the questions he was asked.
After the break:
NYAG asked Trump about valuations of his New York penthouse in 2014, which inaccurately tripled its size.
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#Engoron: "I beseech you to control him, if you can,” he warned he will control #Trump if the lawyers don’t.
#Kise & #lHabba jumped up to defend Trump, calling his answers “responsive”.
Habba said Engoron's here to "hear what he has to say.”
Engoron: "I'm not here to hear what he has to say. HE’s here to ANSWER questions!"
He ordered them to sit down.
Kise said the judge should want to hear EVERYTHING Trump has to say.Engoron: “No I do not want to hear ‘everything’ this witness has to say.”
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#Kise urged the judge against that.
#NYAG asked about 40 Wall Street (Trump Tower) & its valuation at $550.1M on the 2014 SFC. #Trump gave a speech about the statute of limitations, possibly converting it to condominiums, & how developing condos for that property "was perfect."
Trump: "I got a lollipop in the lease. It's a legal term, believe it or not." (So now he knows the law? I thought he didn’t even know what a subpoena was)
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#Trump: "I'm between IBM & Tiffany."
Trump: "It's a holdup. It's not a nice word. It's a holdup site." If either Tiffany or IBM wanted to expand, they’d have to buy his bldg.
#NYAG: “The question was...”
Trump, spoke over the AG: “I bought the air rights over Tiffany so they can’t go up…”
#Engoron: “Excuse me”
Trump dismissively: “Hold on!” (& cont’d)
Engoron: “Mr. #Kise, can you control your witness? I am considering drawing a negative inference on any question he might be asked.”
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“Thus, for the reasons stated herein, I hereby order that all #counsel are prohibited from making any public statements, in or out of court, that refer to any confidential communications, in any form, between my staff & me.
“Failure to abide by this directive shall result in serious #sanctions.”
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#law #Trump #Engoron #Kise #Habba #TrumpTrial #PoliticalViolence #MAGA #Cult #TrumpDavidians #DomesticViolentExtremists #DomesticTerror -
“Since the commencement of this bench #trial, my chambers have been inundated w/hundreds of #harassing & #threating phone calls, voicemails, emails, letters, & packages.
“The #FirstAmendment right of defendants & their #attorneys to comment on my staff is far & away outweighed by the need to #protect them from #threats & physical #harm.
#law #Trump #Engoron #Kise #Habba #TrumpTrial #PoliticalViolence #MAGA #Cult #TrumpDavidians #DomesticViolentExtremists #DomesticTerror
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In Judge Engoron’s #SummaryJudgement, the order for dissolution of all Trump businesses, it discusses disgorgement — which is legalese for what they have to pay for their “ill-gotten gains.”
#Trump atty, #Kise objected to the #Mccarty testimony saying the calculations aren’t "ill-gotten gains" for the purposes of disgorgement w/o testimony banks wouldn't authorize the loans w/accurate SFCs.
(Besides the amt they’ll pay, the trial determines if they get barred from operating in NY)
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#NYAG #Amer questions #JeffMcConney more about how he #valued specific #Trump #properties & what info he may have excluded from his accountants’ assessment.
Note: Trump’s principal lawyer #ChrisKise is absent today.
Trump's legal team this morning filed a stay request to the state #Appellate Division (#AD1), to halt the #trial & #dismiss #Engoron’s #SummaryJudgment. #Kise, who was Florida’s solicitor general, (the top FL appellate lawyer). So presumably he’s dealing w/ they stay.
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Oh FFS; Before the first #witness #DonaldBender, could even begin testifying, one of Donald #Trump’s attorneys issued a preemptive #objection. Chris #Kise told Justice Arthur #Engoron that he objected to various parts of the #accountant’s #testimony & wanted to issue a “blanket objection” based on an #appellate ruling in June.
“As you know we won an appellate victory in June of this year,” #Kise said. “We make a blanket #objection to #testimony in that regard.”
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#Habba’s presentation is pure #politics. She attacked the #press corps, & called #Trump the “sitting president.” She didn’t diverge at all from the substance of #Kise’s arguments, but spoke far louder & as if she were addressing a jury, or a television camera.
“These #lenders made money. They made money,” she said. “They were not #defrauded.”
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#Kise argued that the defendants didn’t mean to #defraud anyone w/disparate property valuations (irrelevant). He calls this the essence of the commercial real estate marketplace, saying “buyers have a view, sellers have a view, none of them are wrong.”
“Everyone has a different opinion as to valuation,” Kise said, summarizing his case after spending a long time explaining that #DeutscheBank, one of the #lenders, did its own due diligence & came up w/ another set of values for certain properties. -
The argument by #Kise was very close to a reprise of his statements last month, which #Engoron treated harshly when he granted the AG #SummaryJudgment & found #Trump #liable. Maybe Kise thinks that these arguments will be more successful w/the remaining causes of action — but just as likely, he’s already thinking about a future #appeal while straining to please his most important client.
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#JoanMastodon hat nie für die PROKLA geschrieben.
Aber in unserem Archiv sind fast alle Texte seit 1971 frei zugänglich (bis auf die jüngsten Jahrgänge):https://www.prokla.de/index.php/PROKLA/issue/archive
#Marx #Marxismus #Sozialismus #PolitischeÖkonomie #Ökonomie #Klassenkampf #Gewerkschaft #Arbeiterinnenbewegung #sozialeBewegungen #Ökologie #Weltmarkt #Globalisierung #Parteienystem #Kise #Krisentheorie #Arbeit #Gesellschaft #Linke #Geld #Wohnungspolitik #Sozialstaat #Feminismus #Reproduktion #Kapitalismus
