#200lx — Public Fediverse posts

Separated at birth: The HP #200LX NoteTaker application, and Microsoft Cardfile from Windows 3.11 (and earlier).

• Simulates a stack of index cards.
• Each note has an index line.
• Notes are auto alphabetized by index. No other sort order is possible.

Cardfile has separate card and index views. NoteTaker shows both at once.

This is the simplest class of application that I believe is justified in calling itself a #database.

#HP200LX #retrocomputing

Separated at birth: The HP #200LX NoteTaker application, and Microsoft Cardfile from Windows 3.11 (and earlier).

• Simulates a stack of index cards.
• Each note has an index line.
• Notes are auto alphabetized by index. No other sort order is possible.

Cardfile has separate card and index views. NoteTaker shows both at once.

This is the simplest class of application that I believe is justified in calling itself a #database.

#HP200LX #retrocomputing

@flyingsaceur MS-DOS 5.0 in ROM in a HP #200LX on a sunny park bench.

#hp200lx

@flyingsaceur MS-DOS 5.0 in ROM in a HP #200LX on a sunny park bench.

#hp200lx

I'm reading a book about French mountain-climbers and the HP #200LX is doing a good job maintaining a cast of characters for me thanks to its NoteTaker application, which is just a thin wrapper around the flat file #database engine shared by most of its PIM apps. The database features both quick browsing by note title (in left-hand column) and a full-text search of all note contents (slower but sometimes necessary to recall a nickname or other trivia).

This is a very basic example of how a flatfile database can frequently be the "right tool for the job" in a way that is now underappreciated:

• Plain text would work, but it's a lot of vertical scrolling, and doesn't have any equivalent of "quick browsing by note title".
• A hierarchical organizer would work well but will suffer the same search problems as plain text unless thoughtfully designed.
• A spreadsheet would need lots of horizontal scrolling to read the character's biographies.

The database is effectively just a "frontend on a spreadsheet" but this is a frontend that does a lot of practical work.

#HP200LX #retrocomputing

I'm reading a book about French mountain-climbers and the HP #200LX is doing a good job maintaining a cast of characters for me thanks to its NoteTaker application, which is just a thin wrapper around the flat file #database engine shared by most of its PIM apps. The database features both quick browsing by note title (in left-hand column) and a full-text search of all note contents (slower but sometimes necessary to recall a nickname or other trivia).

This is a very basic example of how a flatfile database can frequently be the "right tool for the job" in a way that is now underappreciated:

• Plain text would work, but it's a lot of vertical scrolling, and doesn't have any equivalent of "quick browsing by note title".
• A hierarchical organizer would work well but will suffer the same search problems as plain text unless thoughtfully designed.
• A spreadsheet would need lots of horizontal scrolling to read the character's biographies.

The database is effectively just a "frontend on a spreadsheet" but this is a frontend that does a lot of practical work.

#HP200LX #retrocomputing

@interstar I liked your fishing trip database example, so here's a wine database on HP #200LX. Two facing pages in the manual were enough to fully demonstrate how to create it. No need for a LLM helper.

https://archive.org/details/manualsbase-id-189652/page/n89/mode/2up

#retrocomputing #hp200lx

@interstar I liked your fishing trip database example, so here's a wine database on HP #200LX. Two facing pages in the manual were enough to fully demonstrate how to create it. No need for a LLM helper.

https://archive.org/details/manualsbase-id-189652/page/n89/mode/2up

#retrocomputing #hp200lx

@AlgoCompSynth That would be muLisp, as I ran across quite by accident the other day. Sure enough, it's amazing on the #200LX! I've been working on Project Euler: it's quite addictive.

https://github.com/MartinHepperle/muLISP/tree/main/muLISP-90

#hp200lx #lisp

@AlgoCompSynth That would be muLisp, as I ran across quite by accident the other day. Sure enough, it's amazing on the #200LX! I've been working on Project Euler: it's quite addictive.

https://github.com/MartinHepperle/muLISP/tree/main/muLISP-90

#hp200lx #lisp

I can't believe it, but I found an old-arse CF card of 32MB size and made it work in my 200LX! Now, DOOM8088....and a ton of other games. #retro #retrocomputing #retrogaming #retrogames #200lx #msdos

I can't believe it, but I found an old-arse CF card of 32MB size and made it work in my 200LX! Now, DOOM8088....and a ton of other games. #retro #retrocomputing #retrogaming #retrogames #200lx #msdos

Bonus shots of the phone-HP file transfer process. #hp200lx #retrocomputing #200lx

Bonus shots of the phone-HP file transfer process. #hp200lx #retrocomputing #200lx

HP Connectivity Pack is now installed on my phone, allowing me to view and convert files from the #hp200lx's native PIM apps. Phone and HP #200LX are now a self-sufficient pair, with no PC required to transfer, view or edit files. (And yes, I also have Lotus 1-2-3 on my phone. Who doesn't?) No lock-in, no bullshit, just data files in well-understood formats readable anywhere. Can it still be called #retrocomputing if it's still so useful in the modern age?

HP Connectivity Pack is now installed on my phone, allowing me to view and convert files from the #hp200lx's native PIM apps. Phone and HP #200LX are now a self-sufficient pair, with no PC required to transfer, view or edit files. (And yes, I also have Lotus 1-2-3 on my phone. Who doesn't?) No lock-in, no bullshit, just data files in well-understood formats readable anywhere. Can it still be called #retrocomputing if it's still so useful in the modern age?

The next #Forth program I write on the HP #200LX will be #uuencode / #uudecode so I can transfer binary files to/from hosts that don't support #zmodem. #HP200LX

The next #Forth program I write on the HP #200LX will be #uuencode / #uudecode so I can transfer binary files to/from hosts that don't support #zmodem. #HP200LX

omg I was not expecting winning #Freecell on the HP #200LX to do the bouncy cards thing
#HP200LX #retrocomputing

omg I was not expecting winning #Freecell on the HP #200LX to do the bouncy cards thing
#HP200LX #retrocomputing

I bought a large storage card for the #HP200LX. Sadly, the HP itself is the only machine I have working right now with a PC card slot. The card came preloaded with neat #200LX-ready software, which I am backing up to my PC. Copying hundreds of megabytes of software over 9600 baud serial... takes... um... a while!?

I bought a large storage card for the #HP200LX. Sadly, the HP itself is the only machine I have working right now with a PC card slot. The card came preloaded with neat #200LX-ready software, which I am backing up to my PC. Copying hundreds of megabytes of software over 9600 baud serial... takes... um... a while!?

literally all of you were wrong.

no spoilers from you lot, i'm doing a YouTube video on this thing and it WILL go into great detail

#retrocomputing #200lx

literally all of you were wrong.

no spoilers from you lot, i'm doing a YouTube video on this thing and it WILL go into great detail

#retrocomputing #200lx

I feel like a new world is being opened to me. I am finally getting in touch with what my body truly desires; I feel as though a centuries-long, intimate, carnal yearning is finally being fulfilled.

I can finally carry an IBM PC XT with CGA-compatible graphics in my pocket.

#retrocomputing #200lx #pda

I feel like a new world is being opened to me. I am finally getting in touch with what my body truly desires; I feel as though a centuries-long, intimate, carnal yearning is finally being fulfilled.

I can finally carry an IBM PC XT with CGA-compatible graphics in my pocket.

#retrocomputing #200lx #pda

A size comparison for the curious. The #Book8088 is about 50% larger and thicker than the #HP200LX. In return, you get a backlit color VGA screen, an OPL3 Adlib, a rattly netbook keyboard instead of a chiclet keyboard, a full-sized serial port, a parallel port, and a bus expansion port. (You also get no instant-on capability, a vastly diminished battery life, and no ability to run on AA's. It's not a direct upgrade, by any means.)

For me, the machines fill different niches. The HP #200LX is a productivity machine for daily use... sort of a PIM-organizer-multitool that can host arbitrary DOS software. The 200LX is also a better programming machine due to its built-in task switching.

Meanwhile, the Book 8088 is better for longform writing, audiovisual projects, and general "flop on the couch in the dark and be unproductive" downtime.

They complement each other very nicely!

A size comparison for the curious. The #Book8088 is about 50% larger and thicker than the #HP200LX. In return, you get a backlit color VGA screen, an OPL3 Adlib, a rattly netbook keyboard instead of a chiclet keyboard, a full-sized serial port, a parallel port, and a bus expansion port. (You also get no instant-on capability, a vastly diminished battery life, and no ability to run on AA's. It's not a direct upgrade, by any means.)

For me, the machines fill different niches. The HP #200LX is a productivity machine for daily use... sort of a PIM-organizer-multitool that can host arbitrary DOS software. The 200LX is also a better programming machine due to its built-in task switching.

Meanwhile, the Book 8088 is better for longform writing, audiovisual projects, and general "flop on the couch in the dark and be unproductive" downtime.

They complement each other very nicely!

The HP #200LX's built-in AA charging will never not be cool. Here it is topping up a pair of NiMHs. Charge curve graph courtesy of ABC/LX by DaSoft http://www.dasoft.com/ABC/abc.htm
#HP200LX

The HP #200LX's built-in AA charging will never not be cool. Here it is topping up a pair of NiMHs. Charge curve graph courtesy of ABC/LX by DaSoft http://www.dasoft.com/ABC/abc.htm
#HP200LX

I spoke too soon in praising #Cornerstone's handling of many:many relationships. While a junction table does work as expected, joining together multiple junction tables does not work the same way that a SQL JOIN operation would, so there are certain types of many:many relation that cannot be modeled! It's back to the drawing board on how best to model many:many relations on the #HP200LX.
#200LX

I spoke too soon in praising #Cornerstone's handling of many:many relationships. While a junction table does work as expected, joining together multiple junction tables does not work the same way that a SQL JOIN operation would, so there are certain types of many:many relation that cannot be modeled! It's back to the drawing board on how best to model many:many relations on the #HP200LX.
#200LX

Toot viewing on #HP200LX: the dumbest approach that could possibly work. This takes advantage of the fact that the 200LX has a built-in flat file database, and that feeding it with external information is pretty easy.

Step 1: On palmtop itself, design a nice database form for viewing toots.
Step 2: Obtain your Mastodon timeline in csv format (I am abusing "toot timeline" for this purpose).
Step 3: Convert csv to the #200LX native database format (as defined in Step 1) using GDBDUMP (available on S.U.P.E.R., http://mizj.com)
Step 4: Upload database to palmtop and enjoy!

(#dostodon it ain't... but good luck running DOSTodon on an 8 MHz 186 :D)

Toot viewing on #HP200LX: the dumbest approach that could possibly work. This takes advantage of the fact that the 200LX has a built-in flat file database, and that feeding it with external information is pretty easy.

Step 1: On palmtop itself, design a nice database form for viewing toots.
Step 2: Obtain your Mastodon timeline in csv format (I am abusing "toot timeline" for this purpose).
Step 3: Convert csv to the #200LX native database format (as defined in Step 1) using GDBDUMP (available on S.U.P.E.R., http://mizj.com)
Step 4: Upload database to palmtop and enjoy!

(#dostodon it ain't... but good luck running DOSTodon on an 8 MHz 186 :D)

Achievement unlock: recharged NiMH batteries using the #HP200LX's built-in charger. The palmtop isn't designed for NiMH, but it's perfectly safe if you know your batteries' charge curve and monitor the progress using a tool like ABC/LX. (The tool also is capable of automatic charge control, but I preferred to keep a close eye on it during the first charge, as palmtops aren't cheap.)
#200lx

Achievement unlock: recharged NiMH batteries using the #HP200LX's built-in charger. The palmtop isn't designed for NiMH, but it's perfectly safe if you know your batteries' charge curve and monitor the progress using a tool like ABC/LX. (The tool also is capable of automatic charge control, but I preferred to keep a close eye on it during the first charge, as palmtops aren't cheap.)
#200lx

Kicked the tires on #Cornerstone some more today. As I suspected, you can model a many:many relationship the same way as in any other relational database: by using a junction table. In just a few minutes, I managed to set one up, enter some data and run some queries... not bad! The query speed is worth mentioning, though. On the 8 MHz #HP200LX, it took about 1/2 second to query each line, and this was on a sample database of a dozen records. I wonder how this will scale as the database grows larger?
#200lx

Kicked the tires on #Cornerstone some more today. As I suspected, you can model a many:many relationship the same way as in any other relational database: by using a junction table. In just a few minutes, I managed to set one up, enter some data and run some queries... not bad! The query speed is worth mentioning, though. On the 8 MHz #HP200LX, it took about 1/2 second to query each line, and this was on a sample database of a dozen records. I wonder how this will scale as the database grows larger?
#200lx

#Infocom Cornerstone on #hp200lx

I've been looking for a relational database for the #200LX. To visualize multi dimensional data, I prefer databases over spreadsheets.

I wanted a friendly menu-driven interface like Access, FoxPro or Paradox: alas, they were too memory- and storage-hungry for the handheld.

dBase III was small and fast, but wasn't relational enough. R:BASE 5000 was huge, cumbersome, and its bolted-on EXPRESS wizards couldn't launch for whatever reason (they worked fine on other machines). Also, R:BASE could hardly be considered a "friendly" program.

In desperation, I turned to a nightmare from the past: Cornerstone, better known as the product that killed Infocom https://www.filfre.net/2014/04/down-from-the-top/. Much to my surprise... it is excellent? Smooth interface, and surprising depth, despite its reputation as a nerf database.

For $99 instead of $500, this could have been the smash hit of 1985, instead of a company-killing flop. And imagine if they'd made a 2.0 with a #Lisp engine!

#Infocom Cornerstone on #hp200lx

I've been looking for a relational database for the #200LX. To visualize multi dimensional data, I prefer databases over spreadsheets.

I wanted a friendly menu-driven interface like Access, FoxPro or Paradox: alas, they were too memory- and storage-hungry for the handheld.

dBase III was small and fast, but wasn't relational enough. R:BASE 5000 was huge, cumbersome, and its bolted-on EXPRESS wizards couldn't launch for whatever reason (they worked fine on other machines). Also, R:BASE could hardly be considered a "friendly" program.

In desperation, I turned to a nightmare from the past: Cornerstone, better known as the product that killed Infocom https://www.filfre.net/2014/04/down-from-the-top/. Much to my surprise... it is excellent? Smooth interface, and surprising depth, despite its reputation as a nerf database.

For $99 instead of $500, this could have been the smash hit of 1985, instead of a company-killing flop. And imagine if they'd made a 2.0 with a #Lisp engine!

HP 200LX "Connectivity Kit" software is now up and running in #dosbox, and even paired to the palmtop over a serial link! I think I'll stick to using GNU screen + zmodem to transfer files, but I'm super glad to now be able to use the PIM applications on a PC and convert their internal file formats to and from csv... this will go a long way to making them useful in the 21st century.
#hp200lx #200lx

HP 200LX "Connectivity Kit" software is now up and running in #dosbox, and even paired to the palmtop over a serial link! I think I'll stick to using GNU screen + zmodem to transfer files, but I'm super glad to now be able to use the PIM applications on a PC and convert their internal file formats to and from csv... this will go a long way to making them useful in the 21st century.
#hp200lx #200lx

Cleanup done -- the modernized version of the HP 100/200LX Reference Guide is now hosted here: http://edlinfan.duckdns.org:7000/hp200lx.htm. Massive props to Jorgen Wallgren and all the rest who did the original HTMLification in the late 90s. If you want your own copy, follow the zipfile link at the bottom of the page.
#hp200lx #200lx

Cleanup done -- the modernized version of the HP 100/200LX Reference Guide is now hosted here: http://edlinfan.duckdns.org:7000/hp200lx.htm. Massive props to Jorgen Wallgren and all the rest who did the original HTMLification in the late 90s. If you want your own copy, follow the zipfile link at the bottom of the page.
#hp200lx #200lx

This HTML version of the HP 200LX docs is pretty good, but there are a few rough edges. It's expecting case-insensitive file names, so lots of internal links are broken on Linux machines / web servers. Also, there doesn't seem to be a top-level index. Small things, which I am now fixing.
https://archive.org/details/the-hp-palmtop-papers-infobase-cd-2000
#hp200lx #200lx

This HTML version of the HP 200LX docs is pretty good, but there are a few rough edges. It's expecting case-insensitive file names, so lots of internal links are broken on Linux machines / web servers. Also, there doesn't seem to be a top-level index. Small things, which I am now fixing.
https://archive.org/details/the-hp-palmtop-papers-infobase-cd-2000
#hp200lx #200lx

Does anyone know if there exists a hardware reference for the proprietary features of the HP 200LX? I would like to learn how to use its non-CGA-compatible 640x200 grayscale graphics mode.
#200lx #hp200lx

EDIT: LXREF is what I was looking for, thanks @retroprom!
EDIT 2: A HTML version of the same hardware reference is available in https://archive.org/details/the-hp-palmtop-papers-infobase-cd-2000.

Does anyone know if there exists a hardware reference for the proprietary features of the HP 200LX? I would like to learn how to use its non-CGA-compatible 640x200 grayscale graphics mode.
#200lx #hp200lx

EDIT: LXREF is what I was looking for, thanks @retroprom!
EDIT 2: A HTML version of the same hardware reference is available in https://archive.org/details/the-hp-palmtop-papers-infobase-cd-2000.

I guess my next #Forth project is to create words for PC speaker and CGA graphics access, so I can create cutting-edge multimedia applications on the HP #200LX.

I guess my next #Forth project is to create words for PC speaker and CGA graphics access, so I can create cutting-edge multimedia applications on the HP #200LX.

@confusedbunny Sounds much like one! It's also very similar to the HP #200LX, although that machine didn't have a debugger quite as nice as what I'm describing here.

@confusedbunny Sounds much like one! It's also very similar to the HP #200LX, although that machine didn't have a debugger quite as nice as what I'm describing here.

@jeremiah If you don't mind, what terminal program are you using? It looks #200LX-optimized, but it does not look like the standard Data Comm program.

@jeremiah If you don't mind, what terminal program are you using? It looks #200LX-optimized, but it does not look like the standard Data Comm program.

For this weekend in #retrocomputing, I accelerated the editor of Pygmy #Forth 1.7 by a factor of 10x to make it actually pleasant to use on my 8 MHz HP #200LX palmtop.

If you want to know how I did it, read my phlog post about the changes: gopher://edlinfan.duckdns.org:7000/0pyg_edit.txt (also available on HTTP for the lazy.)

For this weekend in #retrocomputing, I accelerated the editor of Pygmy #Forth 1.7 by a factor of 10x to make it actually pleasant to use on my 8 MHz HP #200LX palmtop.

If you want to know how I did it, read my phlog post about the changes: gopher://edlinfan.duckdns.org:7000/0pyg_edit.txt (also available on HTTP for the lazy.)

@psf
I thought i've seen it all but seeing a #Palmtop running #DOS and able to execute #Lotus 1-2-3 makes my head spin.

#Lotus123 #200LX

Huh, today I learned that 80186 and up can't execute POP CS. From Wikipedia,

POP CS (opcode 0x0F) works only on 8086/8088. Later CPUs use 0x0F as a prefix for newer instructions.

Weirdly enough, DEBUG.EXE on the HP #200LX lets you assemble it no problem, then refuses to disassemble it. And of course everything blows up if you try to execute it, because this palmtop is a 80186-compatible.